Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I dont want him to redo as well, I just make suggestions. I didnt take advantage of your stales, as you can see, and my only wish is to continue this game without rolling back.
And I am not affraid of wasting 52 turns, because with well-developed Marignon and Rlyeh my chances are quite slim anyway. This game wont be boring for me.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

But if it continues like that I'm not playing. Simple as that. We should also hear smth from Ossa.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

meh there is no honor in attacking an opponent who is staling due to an accidental mis-communication. I vote roll back to the first turn zeldor staled.

on the other hand zelor should accept some responsibility for checking on his sub but it was an accident so the most fair solution seems to do the rollback.

If juffos doesn't want to admin then someone else should take over. I would be willing to do it but it might make more sense to pick an experienced player.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I'd do it if I could. I was on holidays, without any access to computer.

Anyway, I'd be happiest with some solution that let that game continue, but with equal chances for everyone, as it was before stales.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I have won a war during these three turns, and it has nothing to do with any stales. I refuse to roll my victory back - it was tedious, and I took risks. Now I have to start it over?
I am not playing if we roll back. And closing game would be silly because there are still enough men standing.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

How about my idea Kuritza?

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

sigh. :re:

zeldor and kuritza is there any way you can work out a compromise instead of just both threatening to quit?

or, if you do want to quit, can I have all your stuff? ;)

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Micah's idea or something along these lines might also work. I was going to offer one rollback + some compensation to Ermor, like letting him freely reclaim some lands he has lost during the next turn.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Did anyone take Zeldor's territory other than Ossa? Maybe Ossa will be amenable to retreating from his gained territory since he got it due to accidental stales. That way Kuritza could keep whatever territory he fairly took from Caelum/Arco

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I did take some ground too from Ermor, not much though.

Micah's idea about everyone staling for 3 turns out of four would probably work in this case, but it'd require everyone to agree to it. I don't really see it as a good enough solution since there is more in the game going on than just the stuff around Ermor (mainly the man-arcos/whatever relations). Still, it would not solve the problem - Ermor has lost a lot of troops (not unreplaceable though I guess, but it does hurt him).

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

How about one turn to retreat or prepare yourself, and then two stales by everyone? I think two 'free' turns that you can count on is more or less equal to three accidental stales.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Would work for me, but still, people staling widens the gap between those who have more gem income/gold income (Especially since you, Kuritza, have two gem producing globals on) and those with less of both. Research probably isn't an issue this late in the game. I know that I'm not likely to be in the race to eventually win the game, but I'm still not willing to throw the game. It'll be another experience to figure out new things, and learn more from the game.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

It also works for Ermor, who gets more freespawn and also has a huge gem income. So all in all, it should suit him. Two stales are better than three rollbacks in my book.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

True, but I still want to hear what Ossa has to say. And I still think the 4 turns out of which one you can make is somewhat better in terms of balancing the game for ermor when compared to 1 turn to prepare + 2 stales.

Still, Zeldor and Ossa should voice their opinions.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I'm affraid we wont read Ossa's opinion on this forum, he seems to prefer ingame messages. :(

P.S.
You say that stales widen the gap, yet you suggest that 3 stales is better than two? ^^

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Not in that aspect, they aren't. But two turns of free time for ermor with one turn of getting ready for it is worse than the 4/1 scheme suggested by Micah. I don't like either, but if we were to try the stale-thing, I'd prefer Micah's way because it gives Ermor more time to recuperate and gives a certain edge in the game because we can still react if something goes very wrong very quickly.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I have PMed Ossa to hear his opinion, still waiting. I of course would prefer an option of no-staling, but it would pretty much require something from other players for Ermor, so I can recover from losing 1/3 of my provs and not getting 3 turns of forging etc. And I can assume that Man was preparing to attack me for that time, so if Kuritza does not like the stales option, maybe he can suggest some other reparation?

Anyway, Juffos should probably send an email to all players, so they at least know the situation and can voice their opinion. Abysia, C'tis, Arco are not posting here anything at all. So even if we agreed on smth, they'd have no idea about it. And most people submitted their turns already.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Staling is OK to me. But I'd like to see 2 stales, not three. After all, things like that happen and you are not attacked by everyone from all sides yet.
2 bonus turns should make it up for three stales in my opinion. If you want some extra compensation from other players, post yours suggestions.

Let me clarify my position: we are not guilty that Ermor staled. People do stale time after time, and they dont demand compensation from all other players for that.
Three stales in a row is damn dramatic indeed, catashtrophic even, but I dont feel oblidged to offer a 100% compensation because I didnt cause it nor did I benefit from it anyhow. 2 extra turns should be enough to get revenge.

P.S.
How about a NAP+3 from me as a compensation? I will declare war against Ermor soon enough indeed, but this way you will have your 3 turns.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I am not demaning 100% compensation. I simply wish that stales did not occur and all could continue, like I was here and played. I am pretty sure that I'd have at least as many provs as before without that stales. Anyway, we need Ossa's opinion, as he is the one other major power and would be hit hardest by force stales [and well, he gained most from my stales too].

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Hmm... maybe I'm the wrong person to be asked now.

I was nearly wiped out from this game by a NAP break. Zeldor - though he just made suggestions - has at least some kind of responsibility, or that's at least the way I still see it.

Lets say, I'm not in the mood for any great compensation for these stalls. I've also lost provinces and armies due to stalls before and seldom got compensated.

And, though Ermor lost some ground, his armies were still increasing and he is still the uncontested #1 in this game.

So I vote for no, no compensation at all. Or well, maybe noone attacks him for 2 turns while he can reorganize his armies.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Says a person with 1 early stale... Really, you call taking 18 provs from me, a fort, killing over 1k troops, tens of commanders as bad as someone breaking a NAP he didn't know exists and just barely taking few provs within few turns?

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

SciencePro is the new admin. Please pester him instead of me :(

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I don't see what NAPs have to do with stales. It seems to be in questionable taste to let in-game events influence administrative/out of game decisions.

In-game choices should be made in pure self-interest, given the stated game objective of becoming god and sending your opposition to the depths of Tartarus for all eternity. I would hope that out-of-game decisions should be made with a bit more of an enlightened view, with a consideration to PLAYING the game in a more-or-less fair manner, not just WINNING the game. Leave the low blows in-character.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Okay so Juffos has left me in charge of this mess. Let’s have a vote. I will be accepting nominations for proposed remedies to our dilemma for the next 48 hours. Then voting will be available 48 hours. To vote you will rank all of the nominated options in order from most preferred to least preferred. All votes and nominations must be posted here in the forum for everyone to see.

To determine the winning option I will enter the ranked votes here: http://students.cec.wustl.edu/~rhl1/rbvote/calc.html . The winning option will be determined using the Schulze method.
To start things off I propose the following options based on the previous discussion here:

Option A: Do nothing and continue the game as normal
Option B: Complete turn 56 as normal then run turns 57 and 58 with only Ermor submitting turns. Turn 59 would resume as normal
Option C: Roll back to Turn 53.

Suggestions for additional options will be accepted here on this forum until 1:30 GMT on Sunday Oct. 2.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I'll resubmit my earlier proposal for 3 stales/1 turn, though I suppose I can't actually vote for it.

Alternatively, amending option B to include 2 immediate stales would be much more equitable than the current proposal, since allowing a preparation turn would prevent him from inflicting any significant damage within 2 turns' time. Or adding that as a separate option in addition to B.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Okay so you mean?

Option D: Roll back to turn 55. Then agree that for turns 55, 56, 57, and 58 Ermor can submit 2h every turn but the other nations can only submit ONE 2h of that player's choice. Turn 59 will continue as normal.

Option E: Roll back to turn 55. Complete turn 55 and 56 with only Ermor submitting 2h. Continue the game as normal with turn 57

When making nominations please be as specific as possible and reference specific turn numbers.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I was referring to whatever the current turn is, no rollbacks.

So: Option D: For turns 56-59 non-Ermor players submit a single non-blank .2h file, Ermor plays all turns. (Blank .2h files should be used for all turns so Zeldor can't tell in advance if a player will be staling, or force people to wait until the last 5 minutes to submit turns, etc.)

Option E: Everyone but Ermor stales 56 and 57. Continue as normal with 58.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Too many options, bad poll. Cut it down to three.

My vote is B (current B)

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Well, I suppose B is best from the first three... I wouldn't mind the rollbacks but there are certainly people who can't tolerate them due obvious reasons.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Regarding obliterated Ermor armies.... one look at the Armies graph is enough, I think. :)

Ok, so my hit-parade is:

B (one turn for preparations, two stales)
A (proceed as normal)
E (with one exception - I will move fetish charm from a dying scout to my lab. As I already stated, I didnt benefit from the stales so imho I shouldnt suffer.)

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

option B

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

A
(with B being second)

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Please wait until everyone gets a chance to submit any suggestions before deciding your vote. When you do vote, please rank all available choices.

a ranked voting system allows all options to be heard equally. It works much better than a traditional voting system where you are severely limited by the choices decided ahead of time. For more information on the benefits of a ranked voting system see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

hmmmm i didn't realize this is possible. If you submit a blank file as a 2H then won't the server reject it as an improper file? People have already submitted turn 56 so will a blank file really cause the server to revert their submitted status to a staled status?

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I would say a then b. Im not really involved in the fighting anyway.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

I'd say that Marignon profited way too much from my stales for 2 turns to make good enough difference - he had armies ready and able to grab my provs. And he killed all my troops in other fronts, so he can just happily sit and watch while all I do in 2 turns is move armies. Sure, I got more troops than before, but they are everywhere and mostly weak chaff. Having over 1k amphibian troops with mage support, items etc is a totally different story. So if Marignon is so inclined to continue the crusade, I hope he'd be also willing to make the fight fair.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

More troops than before after 3 stales despite all Marignon's efforts kind of proves my theory that LA Ermor is *designed* to be a 'force of Evil' that has to be ganged by the whole world if that world wants to survive.
:)

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Hmm,

As it was my empire that Man dismantled during those turns.
I would love a rollback so I could try an actual defense this time , not get my god killed etc etc.
:)

In general, I have been very impressed by the sportsmanship of both Zeldor and Kuritza.
I am not so invested in the game, as I joined as a sub with 5 stale turns and suboptimal pretender/domain choice (from my opinion), so my goal was learning.

I vote as follows:

If kuritza and zeldor can both vote together on an option, I support that decision.
Else, end the game.

Thanks so much for teaching me my first online MP dom3 game.
It was a blast, just WAY too much time spent.

Please message me if you ever want another noob for a blitz, I prefer quick turns and rapid resolution. (Which is why I have been playing League of Legends lately ...)

Bye for now
Anthropos

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

okay i will leave these in since they were suggested, but there is a problem with these. As far as I know there is no way to verify if someone sent a "blank" 2h file. Therefore, options D and E would rely on everyone be willing to cooperate. And there would be no way to verify if anyone actually followed instructions or not.

With A,B, and C there is no such problems. As admin I can implement those with or without anyone's cooperation. So i prefer those options to the ones Micah suggested. But I want to to be democratic instead of despotic so let's vote.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Time to vote! There are five options that have been suggested. Please RANK ALL OF THESE in order from most preferred to least preferred. All votes must be posted in the open here on the forum. Any votes PM'd to me will be posted here. Polls are open for 48 hours.

Option A: Do nothing and continue the game as normal

Option B: Complete turn 56 as normal then run turns 57 and 58 with only Ermor submitting turns. Turn 59 would resume as normal

Option C: Roll back to Turn 53.

Option D: For turns 56-59 non-Ermor players submit a single non-blank .2h file, Ermor plays all turns. (Blank .2h files should be used for all turns so Zeldor can't tell in advance if a player will be staling, or force people to wait until the last 5 minutes to submit turns, etc.)

Option E: Everyone but Ermor stales 56 and 57. Continue as normal with 58.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

My vote in order from most to least preferred:

B>C>A>E>D

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

There's no option to end game rather than try and untangle a huge mess that is bound to leave players resentful and unhappy?

Within the options as stated I have no personal preference

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

It's simple enough to check the server logs if there's any suspicion of people trying to cheat by submitting extra turns, though I hope we would be above that sort of thing.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

D, B, E, C, A

- Also, we should move to 24h or 27h hosting for the turns everyone is supposed to stale if we end up into one of those results - Zeldor would need to have to work a bit more, but it'd speed up the process where we can't do anything.

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

i gave the opportunity for anyone to submit any option they wanted. You chose not to participate. So don't blame me if you don't like the options!

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

As soon as an admin message directed me to the forums I came to the thread and replied, forgive me for not checking the forum over the brief period this all happened...

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

A, B, E, C, D

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

B
A
E
D
C

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

B A C D E

Re: Setsumi - LA game, upload pretenders!
 

Option C: Roll back to Turn 53.
Option A: Do nothing and continue the game as normal
Option D: For turns 56-59 non-Ermor players submit a single non-blank .2h file, Ermor plays all turns. (Blank .2h files should be used for all turns so Zeldor can't tell in advance if a player will be staling, or force people to wait until the last 5 minutes to submit turns, etc.)
Option E: Everyone but Ermor stales 56 and 57. Continue as normal with 58.
Option B: Complete turn 56 as normal then run turns 57 and 58 with only Ermor submitting turns. Turn 59 would resume as normal