Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

I underestimated the chokepoint... And I was hoping whoever had the staff of storms died or something.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Now why exactly would I do either of those things? Playing your opponents game always results in a loss unless he doesn't understand his own game. Obviously, you've prepared a strategy which would be very good for a late game high-resource slugfest... If I were to try to play that game, I'd get creamed!

As far as I'm concerned, as soon as I put the Arcane Nexus up, I figured that you would consider that a declaration of war since most other people do. It's fine if you want to continue on with neutrality, but there's no way I'm paying to remove the icy seas. As I mentioned after I cast it, it has a few purposes:

1: Prevent you from easily collaborating attacks with Ulm--you will remember that you parked a little army rather close to my coast on the turn I cast it.

2: Provides a convenient way to convert water gems back into astral pearls via the Nexus.

3: Forces you to expend pearls to get rid of it. (exchange your pearls for my water gems). This also has the bonus effect that if you do decide to try dispelling it, it will be that many more turns before you can try to dispel the Nexus again.

I consider it a very good move, and what you're suggesting would indeed be a very bad move.

The way I look at it, if you have somehow come up with a strategy to stop my Arcane Nexus, I might as well see what it is--even if I lose, what I gain in the experience is worth more than the game itself.

If you don't have a coherent strategy for destroying the Nexus (other than by some vain attempt at salesmanship), then it will go back up without any problems and you will be left still poorer in the gems I am actively spending to combat you.

I'm not going to follow your suggestions unless I feel they have some sort of concrete benefit to me. "Your Word" has no value at this stage in the game. I figure you don't attack me because you think you'll lose what you send or because you cannot find a suitable invasion route. Either one is fine with me. The more turns I get against Ulm one-on-one, the better. It's not like you're ever going to magically ally with me and attack Ulm... That would be rather crazy.

We could consider that to be your act of loyalty if you like. Take two of Ulm's castles--then I'll consider you an ally.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Good luck, you and R'lyeh are in the way of all of them but 1. And I have like 5 metric tonnes of vampires I can sneak in wherever I want.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Basically, for the most part this has been a fight between you (Bogarus) and Ulm on that northwestern continent and frozen seas is an obvious tactic if you fear attack from the sea and your opponent is a water nation. It is certainly a good tactic and you are indeed a fine and crafty player. That being said, tis still a bad thing that the peace loving inhabitants of Atlantis will not be able to soon forget.

It was of course foolish of the dwindling numbers of remaining players to ignore the Nexus for so long, but it will not necessarily guarantee you a win.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

That's true, but it's awfully nice to be in control of it. It has already spawned two very nice secondary globals and I won't say how much other stuff I have already purchased with it.

I think I need to revise my reason for your non-aggression. I'll state that the most likely reason you haven't done anything is because you are concentrating your efforts on swallowing up various AI holdings. ;)

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Well, I had been distracted with AI Mictlan and finishing up Utgard after they went AI. Holding huge numbers of provinces it not really my goal though and can be a headache. But at the same time, kinda seems ridiculous to attack one another till the AIs have been either contained or defeated. Though the victory condition of last man standing is obviously intended for human players, how can a nation be said to win a game if there's an AI nation like Jomon leading in most of the score graphs (globals not being considered) still remaining.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

I thought the reverse was true--that it would be ridiculous to fight AIs when there were humans to fight. If I wanted to fight AI's I'd play SP.

Additionally, even accepting the premise that "AI Players should be conquered first", the fact that in order to fight against AI players, Ulm would have to go through me conflicts with the notion.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Actually, when I took the Locmar port from you that opened up All Sorts of possibilities to plunder Mictlan. Their strong dominion's just been slowing my expansion armies down a bit.

EDIT: Oh for crying out loud how are you still in that fort- .... STORM DEMONS AGGH I knew I forgot to set my vampires to do something

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Your dominion has been purged. Now all who come shall die for real.

I'm hoping you mean "guard my Black Priests" because.... Damn dude... Those guys got *** raped rather quickly. One turn, BAM! No more priests. :P At least the first couple of times you attacked, you enveloped them in vampires so they wouldn't get eaten until the end. I figured you were getting sloppy.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

...or not... 3 candles in 1 turn from zero...

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Inquisitors man. Plus my prophet, god, and capital are sitting right next to it. And my prophet is sitting on it when he's not next to it.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

True, this was not intended to be a vs. AI game and most victory conditions only apply to human players. But basically the point I was making is merely theoretical (if the game continued, the human player would probably be able eliminate all competition eventually, hopefully):

I mean if by attrition, concession, or elimination, a human player is the last player standing, but at the same time there is an AI nation still standing that is way ahead of that nation in the score graphs, has double the amount of provinces, an army 8 times larger, whatever, etc, can we really say that player has won in the sense of dominating the game and in eliminating all opponents at a given point in time?

Speaking of the AI, what are you and Jomon doing up there? It looks to me like Jomon is taking several of your forts. Are you trying to use Jomon to protect your eastern flank?

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Jomon is annoying. They haven't taken "several" of anything--only Abitopolis which they (or their predecessor, Marignon) have been attacking since turn 15. I have been ignoring them and playing defensively. It's annoying to try to attack large AI players because it requires both large armies and micromanagement thereof since when you attack a stronghold, you need to spread like well... I guess the best depiction would be "ringworm" despite that being disgusting--you have to put armies along the "ring" in order to keep them from recapturing and being annoying. Up until a few turns ago they hadn't sent anything that could get through my slightly augmented PD. They don't really have anything left though. Abitopolis isn't under my dominion (it's under yours at the moment), so I was reluctant to send vampires in, but knowing the AI, they don't sit in one castle, they keep advancing, so it was inevitable that they would move on Baron's Road which is under my dominion and as soon as they sieged the castle, I sent my vampires in to destroy them. Now their thug hero is dead and I can ponder what to do about Abitopolis again.


I didn't know that Ulm had Inquisitor priests. Those Black Priests always seem to be getting nicer. (I'm an Ulm fan btw... every age except middle, but I haven't really played extensively with LA).

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Hmm battle in yamba wha- so THATS why you wanted all those pearls. I didn't think Bogarus got Seraph-... you wished didn't you. And he intercepted one of my vampire lord sabbath slaves, that ain't good.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

If you noticed, he had a little problem with fatigue due to the "Boots of Quickness", so I had to do a couple modifications....

Revealing a Sabbath magic strategy is interesting. Why would you tell me such a thing before you actually go to use it?

Marignon and Pythium get to summon the Seraph, but the spell is considerably more expensive than a Wish and comes with a bunch of other angels to go with the Seraph--it's an excellent summon spell. I, however, have to use the lesser "Wish" version. I was quite impressed with the test run--I've never actually played a game long enough to summon and play with such a beastly thing.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Well that was bold. I swear if you turn this into a game of guess where Seraphs gonna be next I will start raiding the hell out of you.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

lol, if you want to do something, why not just do it? I couldn't possibly believe you've been "holding back" on raiding out of some type of invisible gentleman's agreement you made with yourself?

Considering that you already attempted raids with Horde from Hell, what would be the difference in using a different troop type?

In fact, send Vampires. Lots of them! As many as you want.

This is, btw, the absolute longest game of Dominions (2 or 3) that I have ever participated in.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

I actually just used the hordes from hell mostly to scout because you wouldn't let a SINGLE FREAKING SCOUT IN. Got too expensive though. Plus its demonic troops if you win. I dislike raiding unless its my main strategy going in, or a nation is focused on it, like say Helheim. I tend to think if something annoys me, it probably annoys other people, so I try not to do it too much. And while vampires are decent raiders, my going in strategy was a Massive Vampire Omega Defense and a small expansionist army composed of Black Priests and summoned demonic forces. My starting situation put a cramp on that though. Plus I was utterly new to this game when I starte- god, this game has been going on a long time hasn't it.


and no I will not be sending any vampires because that seraph and your tone scares me too much. I will not sacrifice any of my adorable non-sparkling vampires.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Well it seems this game has been going on long enough anyone with death scales is starting to see all their pop dying.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

117 turns at Death-3 (which is what I think Atlantis has) or 3% death per turn leaves just a hair under 3% (2.8333%) of the original population of a state that had Death-3 on turn 1 and kept it the entire time unless the death rate is lower than 1% per tick... I don't know b/c I don't usually play with death scales on any nation except Ermor and their death rate is much much higher.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

I might be needing a small extension, I'm going on a short trip tomorrow (Thursday), and I get back Friday or Saturday.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Aren't you in charge or administering the game, or is Gandalf doing it?

I will also be without Internet (camping) on Labor Day weekend (September 4th through 6th).

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Gandalf is doing most of the admining. I'm just the organizer/decision guy.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

The way I look at it Corvus is the game admin, Gandalf is the server admin. It is always helpful for an active player (whether admin or not) to post on a game thread when a delay might be needed to keep everyone informed.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Now THAT was a bold move, Corvus! Your 4S Pretender versus my 5S Seraph in a Mind Duel! Totally unexpected and lucky for you.

I shall have to summon non-astral SC chassis, but if I had the opportunity to pay 100S to destroy two temples and mind duel your pretender with an advantage, I'd definitely have gone for it. Killing your Virtue would have been so awesome.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

And mightily appreciated for it.
Are you beginning to get a feel for why? I got burned out on the management part before Dom3 was even released.

If someone wants to invent an interesting setup for a Dom3 game I will gladly host it for them. Or they can try hosting it on their own machine. I could only run (organize/manage/DM) 1 or 2 or maybe 3 games at a time. But I (or LLamaserver) can host hundreds.


Gandalf Parker
-- feci quod potui, faciant meliora potentes
I have done what I could, those who can will do better.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

What Can I say, In My boredom I'm feeling crazy. And it wasn't astral 5, its 4, Boosters don't help Magic duel. So they were totally even, it was pretty much a Coin toss. (Am I the only one who knows this? Heh) Oh I'm back by the way. And I staled and didn't get to see my pretender kill it, awww.

Now I'm just gonna call this game, Atlantis almost certainly has it, I'm too honorable to turn on him unless he attacks me first, and by then it would probably be too late. But lets see what happens, it may be a shocker yet.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

It would seem rather anti-climactic to just give the game to Atlantis.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

and I also note that, no, in fact I did not know that Mind Duel did not respect item buffs. Since you seem to know it's mechanics:

1. Does it respect spell buffs like Power of the Spheres or Light of the North Star?

2. Does it respect Communion Master path enhancements?

I will also point out that you and I were allied until you attacked Killaka Fen, so I don't see why honor should apply to Atlantis when it doesn't apply to me. You didn't even try to negotiate a share of pearls from the Nexus.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

1. No.
2. No.

Base Astral level only.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

That was an independant province, and you had already done the same to me, taking provinces that had been taken from me by R'lyeh before I could go kick him out, and then refusing to even trade them back for other provinces.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Well then, this little war erupted over a misunderstanding. See.. I missed the turn on which it was your property and didn't notice the changeover until after the battle had occurred. I assumed that you had taken it forcibly the turn before. I figured I missed the message because the message logs are so long at this stage of the game, I occasionally miss an event.

I obviously couldn't allow you to control it because it is a choke point between the southern and northern fractions of that portion of the map. I suppose, however, that it would have been better diplomatically (had I known it was taken from independents) to trade that province for the southern port island that connects to (formerly) Mictlan.

You never offered anything I wanted in exchange for that province. That little island is ****ing valuable and would have provided me a route for invasion of Mictlan which would eliminate a competing blood nation which, at the time, was my plan for after I finished with R'lyeh. Then both of them went AI and that, of course, changed everything. I wasn't interested in expanding eastward because all of the players on that portion of the map had gone AI--I've been calling that rather large Northeastern region "AI Land" for some time and had no interest in it since there was no real people to fight.

It was more interesting fighting you anyway, and I was bored which is why I chose to attack rather than negotiate. ;)

I suppose, though, that I could go for letting this game slip into the recesses of history and concede, not based on the fact that I don't think it would be possible to beat Atlantis, but more rather based on the fact that I would have to consume all of Jomon before doing so and he would still have a leg up due to the gem income....

Septimus? Would you like a gimme win? If you want to continue we can still go at it, I think I can come up with a few more things, but it will probably be a lot of vs. AI between you and I unless you want to unfreeze the seas (which I can easily refreeze, btw). Plus you're relying on resource-generated troops in a nation with death scales...

Additionally... LA Ulm appears to be a very good turtling nation. You can't invade it with anything that doesn't have shields because of the Black Priests, and you need strong a strong dominion assault to punch through. I had the strong dominion assault ready, but I should have gone with my original idea and held the Juggernauts back until after the battle to prevent them from getting routed, and I didn't have shielded units. Demon Knights and Storm Demons would have been the best mix for that offensive.

Anyway... I have most of the Ice Devils insane or horror marked to the point at which summoning them isn't worthwhile anymore.... Belphegor got multi-horror marked so much that I can't keep him alive, either, and Mabakiel is quite insane (as well a lot of the ice devils). Its difficult to switch from Blood SC chassis with AC up, too.

The AC, btw, was a successful defense against the Nexus--without AC up, the Nexus was generating 70-100 gems per turn. Once you put AC up, the income from the Nexus dropped to 25/turn which means it takes 6 turns just to pay for the base cost of casting it, and I think you guys were able to dispel it in something like 6-8 turns.

People always say that the Nexus is "invulnerable", but it's definitely easier to defeat that people think it is. AC is a very potent counter.

Oh! another interesting thing about Bogarus: My pretender has been horror marked so badly that he gets attacked by a horror (usually a Doom Horror), every turn, and when he casts a spell, he gets attacked by two, and for some reason even though he has really high Astral magic, he always uses an extra pearl to cast Returning (uses 3 instead of 2 unless he only has 2), so I can't just give him 4 pearls when he casts a spell because he gets wasted by the second horror attack and loses any boosters I put on him. I have to give him 6 pearls. Therefore he costs 2 pearls per turn to keep him free of afflictions, and each spell he casts requires an additional 6 pearls to prevent him from dying in the process. I also didn't like his build and would change him significantly in the future.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

It is turn 119. The longest game I have ever been in. I have learned a great deal and have had a good deal of fun. I am sure we all have. And I had a great time playing with you all. If the game ends now, it is fine with me.

There is certainly no point in continuing if people are bored, exhausted, or busy with other things. I will humbly accept the win by concession/exhaustion if you guys want to quit now. I personally don't mind AI fighting, but that is just me.

Verigorm is right, my death scales would eventually kill off all my population, largely shutting down my production capacity and income, though with the large amount of AI provinces yet to be taken, it might take quite some time for that to fully materialize.

Yes, Astral Corruption was/is a great counter to Arcane Nexus, which is why I pushed for it.

And yes, while Arcane Nexus is a powerful global, it certainly doesn't guarantee a win as the game shows.

I will abide by Corvus' decision as game admin at this point, whether to call the game. I have no objections. Large empires can be a headache to maintain anyway. Not just ferrying troops to the front, I also have to keep troops in the rear (at geographically spaced intervals) to deal with independent attacks and random flareups, which increases with the more provinces you hold.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Hmmmmmm. To be quite honest aside from masses of chaff, vampires, and freaks now, I got nothing but my excellent black priests really. This'll show me to get a more varied pretender. I can probably devastate anything attacking me that isn't a heavy SC so I'm pretty sure it would take a really long drawn out war of attrition to crack me. On the other hand I wouldn't really mind to keep playing, the games winding down a bit, but I'd hate to just quit...uggh. *flips a coin* Heads, unless there's any last minute objections, let's call it. How about we leave the game up till tomorrow in case someone changes their mind.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Started
 

Yeah, you really needed some Storm Demons. Things that can fly in the rain are extremely useful--more cost effective than Spring Hawks and aren't mindless either.

I was also quite surprised that no one challenged me on any of the unique demons. I had all of them except for 1 of the Arch Devils for quite some time. This was back before I found out that shields block Iron Blizzard--I should've asked about that spell much earlier. Versus Mictlan and Ulm and I had to empower my pretender in Water magic to get the Ice Devils. Ice Devils, btw, are the best SC Chassis from Blood, IMO. They start with 20+ protection and can cast Wolven Winter on their target province before they go in to boost their protection score higher. This means that they can use the cool special armors like bone armor and robe of shadows instead of high protection armors.

My next SC was going to be a Chayot with the Forbidden Light so it vaporizes vampires; I was also considering the Ark. They transform 3 times so you can only Magic Duel their first form. They're not nearly as devastatingly powerful as a Seraph, but they don't have Magic Duel vulnerability either.

Re: Nub Bash 2010 - Late Age - Completed- Victor: Atlantis
 

Great game guys. Thanks to Corvus for game admin and to Gandalf for hosting.