Re: Helo News game related.
 

Helos are not resilient; I have seen the routed from ground fire, MANPADs, AA, and SAMs far more than I have seen them do anything practical.

The AI loves to shoot at them the second it gets LOS to them and won't stop until you, as the player, break that LOS.

I would say that someone is trying to use their helos as tanks, not as what they are flying targets that draw attention the second they get above the treetops.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

I dont know, in my experience high end Russian helos are so resilient that AI uses them almost like Tiger tanks in 1943 and gets away with it. Most of the time, I hit them only when stationary and use an ATGM. On one hand, it enables the AI not to lose 500 points in an instant. On the other hand, it enables unrealistic tactics like the one mentioned before (plus, there are also PBEM games...)

Regarding helos, it would be interesting if the flying artillery tactic could be implemented as in this war (helos unleashing rockets in an upwards arc as an ad hoc artillery). Perhaps it would be a good idea if rocket armed helos could have bombardment ability.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Tell that to my APACHE crews that along with helicopters are all over "God's Green Earth" this was why several years ago I was wondering if we create "Auto Rotation" in the game you might lose your helicopter but by the same token you might save your crew and some soldiers if in a troop transport helo.

And we did look into this several years ago. Mostly we found some Helos armor was rated lower than they should've been against ammo at the 23mm (VIPOR/APACHE) BECAUSE those values needed weren't available when they were entered into the game. And there were some older ones dating back before Andy and Don to include more contemporary ones as well.

My game world again is ONLY the AI one. When I buy Helos or aircraft it amazes me how the AI seems to know I got them.

So, when I "bring them to the party" MANPADS are the least of my problems though they've caused me headaches as well. It's the big stuff that waiting for me and the AI VERY RARELY has disappointed with its "welcoming committee".

This why terrain masking is so important no matter the type.

Some are more resilient because unlike fighters except with some armor around the cockpit they actually figured out years ago helicopters because of their flight limitations might just need more of it.

And don't get me started on the more modern EW and Decoys
that are out there. Those are items we can't fully simulate in the game though they exist in the RW. So I'd call that a tradeoff with the perception helicopters are too "strong".

Last time I checked the Ukraine is a fairly flat and open country and when you use your air assets (Including Helos.) to drop "dumb bombs" over plains and farmland then your commanders as a dumb as the bombs their telling you to drop in that environment.

Even I can shoot down a helo in open country with a "AASIRSBG" ALRIGHT I'll translate-Anti-Aircraft Sneeze Injected Recoil Spit Ball Gun.

We're getting caught up in the videos, we've seen some successes on both sides in using attack Helos and if you've seen the ones, I've seen they're ALL flying "nap of the earth" and fast. There's one of a Ukrainian Mi-24 that was flying no more than 15 ft. over cars on a road.

That MIGHT help to avoid radar detection, makes you harder to hear you coming (Think about it the higher you are the more "space" you create for sound to travel further and wider in all directions. Same concept as Sonar in the open ocean versus in a bay) Which I believe is another thing we can't simulate "Nap of the Earth" flight.

I'm of the opinion that this matter really is a DRAW for both sides of the argument. Not just for the above but also because MANY people have postulated the opposite view that helicopters are too vulnerable.

And there you have it. I terrain mask and still use them. I can count on my hands and the number NOT reaching 10 how many crews have survived one of my 23/25 game generated campaigns when part of my core units.

If anything, we need to find the AI Military Intelligence Agency (AIMIA) ;) code AND KILL IT. :p

Yeah, AIMIA was on purpose there's a hidden message in there. :D

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Gee, ......." a difference of opinion"

That usually means we have it nailed when nobody is happy for opposing reasons

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Somedays I really do dispair.

It's one thing coming from a newbie to the game...... quite another coming from a veteran player

There is a DEAD CERTAIN way to test "theories" like this that take maybe less time than to type a long post about it

Set up a game like this
https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1668356402

Why that way you might ask.

This allows you to pick for the AI "attacker" and see what the AI would buy if the AI was the "defender".

This allows you to test theoies like "When I buy Helos or aircraft it amazes me how the AI seems to know I got them."

The answer to that question is in the game. You just have to look for it

So.......... you will need to run this through a half dozen times because like everything else the picklists have randoms built in so it's not the same every time

You want to be able to purchase for the AI so you can test this "how the AI seems to know I got them." theory.

So..... buy the same thing the first few times or alternately whatever floats your boat

To keep it manageable set Ukraine ( or whoever ) to 5000 points and set player 2 to XXX which allows it to buy to it's max for that battle type

Set player 2 air sorties to 15

Buy nothing but gunships for the P2 AI. Quit deploy for P2 and then you will be brought to the deploy screen for P1. Auto deploy ( it's just easier but clicking on manual deploy works too)

Once you see the units for P1 on the map go to the HQ memu........ check how many DEDICATED manpads were bought.... ignore the ones that might be bought with an infantry formation as that is even more randomized and the AI does NOT check what weapons are in an unit or formation before buying it

Do that a few times and count how many Inf sams are bought ( and SPAA / SAMS if you like )

Next do the same thing only this time buy nothing but MBT's for P2

Do that a few times and count how many are bought each time for both types of attack and tell me if you see a significant difference ( you won't ). Keep in mind that the larger the sample the less chance of getting repeatable random events. You want the average of as large a sample as you are willing to take

Re: Helo News game related.
 

I did a LOT of experiments with helos once upon a time.

If they have no armor they're vulnerable to any and everything.
With 1 they're pretty resistant to rifle fire.
At 2 they can handle HMG type AA fairly well.
With 3 or more they're VERY hard to hurt with MPADs and light AA (20ish mm).

The Hind use to have 4 armor (and the Apache 3, now the Hind has 2 and the Apache 4) making them quite literally a flying tank. No clue when the armor on the Hind was reduced but I'd suggest the Hind and Apache have no more then 3.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

REALLY ?

Please do tell me the unit number of this mythical beast

EVERY Apache in V16 has 3 except the ones Egypt uses and they have 2.......... NONE have 4

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1668385128

This is not the first time someone whos been on this forum for a while has suggested or proven they are not using the current OOBs.

Its really getting annoying

Last release was V16 if anyone is playing the game with anything but V16 you need to DL the update and recheck your facts before posting here


Ok??

Re: Helo News game related.
 

In my US Army OOB unit# 936 AH-64D Apache shows HF=12 HS=4 ... i.e. 4 armor.

Did V16 come out while I was in the hospital? I may have missed it.

It also means I've been updating the wrong version of the USMC OOB! :doh:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Yes it does. I thought that was understood in our PM conversation when I told you the only change to the USMC since last release was the arty photo. I assumed you remembered we have been releasing every spring for years

BECAUSE.... In the email I sent you Oct 24 I said....

IDK how I could be any clearer...

This is for everyone else.

IF YOU HAVE NOT CHECKED FOR GAME UPDATES THIS YEAR ( or cannot remember the last time you did)....... DO SO NOW

The current version shows at the bottom of the start up screen...... it should be V16

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Even with armor, the helos are not flying tanks. Once they are in the sights of AA, anything, they don't last long and usually are chased off the damn map.

What settings do you have things at for toughness and all that? That might be why your stuff is not reacting like others. I have more issues with the AI-run fighters shrugging off hits and somehow knowing where to strike my armor or flanking units with damn near perfect ability to get kills than any era helos making through the game if they go above NAP.

A couple of weeks ago, I had a Cobra shot down by VC rifle fire because I moved too close to them, and well, the AI took advantage of my mistake, no flying tank there.

Could it also come down to how you are using them? Tactical use might be why yours seem to be flying tanks and others are not.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

I doubt tactical finesse is the reason here, since the AI's way of operating helos is to fly them in a straight line and ATGM any vehicle that is spotted. I do use NOE, but this is how helos are supposed to be used anyway.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Just d'like to add some issue related to helicopter tactics on front-line now which is discussed here

they are inside this article even two videos examples of Ka-52 and Mi-28 recorded during fights

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...flee-4878.html

Re: Helo News game related.
 

https://www.defensenews.com/industry...d-in-40-years/

https://breakingdefense.com/2022/12/...ce-black-hawk/

So looks like the Army gets mini V-22 in 2030 or so...

Re: Helo News game related.
 

The tilt-rotor design of the V-22 makes it problematic to create an "Attack" version of it. So don't expect AH-1s or AH-64s to go away any time soon.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

I suppose this is helo related since the Hellfire is normally a helo weapon system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srgEp7QXPks

Re: Helo News game related.
 

There seems to be a lot of testing new applications for weapons like the Hellfire.... brimstone instantly comes to mind and from what I found online was the Hellfire is cheaper to build than either the Brimstone or the Javalin so ground launch vehicles could very well become reality in the near future and both the Brimstone and Hellfire have a greater range than a Javalin but the Javalin is, of course, man-portable

There are all kinds of old tank / APC hulls in storage that could be adapted to be missile carriers


https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qi...8ceb9d04eb8-lq

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...fqHJA&usqp=CAU

Or just adapt the helo mount for vehicles would seem doable
https://duotechservices.com/wp-conte...re-missile.jpg

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Here nice photo of Mi-8AMTSh which is actually modern version of Mi-8 in Russian Army

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/china-send...the-sanctions/

https://mil.in.ua/wp-content/uploads...05246116-1.jpg


Airbus H125 Ecureuil are still delivered they belong to Border Guard but as Ukrainians said they also are use in military duties.

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/state-bord...w-helicopters/

https://mil.in.ua/wp-content/uploads...-1536x1024.jpg

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Now pass around a year from this event a Mi-8 and Mi-24 supply raids to azovstal. Here short movie 5:12

https://youtu.be/XxZDQ_dKpQI

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Osprey in it's current configuration may be officially dead, perhaps too many design flaws.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...C=eb_230327.nl

Re: Helo News game related.
 

New tech, and the Osprey is still essentially new tech, ALWAYS has problems (ask any engineer).

Only fools expect 100% reliability and safety from anything, even more-so if they're dumb enough to expect it from new tech.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Articles with nice photos about Black Hawk i Ukrainian service
https://en.defence-ua.com/news/how_t...tary-6411.html
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...ideo-6417.html


Mi-8 and Mi-24 actually livery
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/cont...592b009924.jpg

Sea King in their service with photos
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-ukrain...g-helicopters/
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and..._war-6395.html

AW101 for Polish navy expected this summer
https://mil.in.ua/wp-content/uploads...ght-900px2.jpg

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Info about lose of Mi-8MTPR-1 EW helicopter which looks like ordinary new Mi-8
https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-russia...ew-helicopter/
https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_and...n_20-6704.html
https://en.defence-ua.com/media/illu...09c3e14688.jpg
https://mil.in.ua/wp-content/uploads...5/PTS_9954.jpg

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Rather nice vid on CCP helo development and types.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h00t5mn_Xao

Re: Helo News game related.
 

USA "FARA" goes the way of the "COMMANCHE" (Which already was in the game when I came along but, not for long soon afterwards!?! ;)) The first is where I found this out and the second goes into greater detail on how it's affected other USA helicopter programs along with some "pipe dreams" such as the COMMANCHE (And now FARA.) and others.
https://www.flightglobal.com/helicop...ent=newsletter
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/techn...ed/ar-BB1igrVm

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

The RAH-66 was in the July/2003 version of the US OOB but gone by the March/2005 release. There was an early "future" weapons phase some OOB designers went through which caused no end of aggravation later on when none of the projects made it past the "great idea" phase. At the time it was put in the project had not yet been canceled ( 2004)

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Don was getting that "SECURI" notification again and had to delete all my references concerning the below You know how I do business for now based on that the below is good. I had 10-12 refs to support what I have below but am "burnt out" at present the one's about NORWAY are good. Something on Shrapnel's security side must not like "linked" articles attached to MSN and Yahoo. It's just my best guess because one or the other above caused an issue you might remember on a post; I sent a PM to you on within the last months. I was able to post it upon removal. Just would be nice to know if the site changed its security protocols concerning refs from the web, never saw this "SECURI" issue until recently but verified that is a web-based security firm.


They actually were around for much longer the COMMANCHE see "FBPP" for the following:

Page 3; Post #27 11-21-10, 07:40 PM Item 4 and

Page 4; Post #40 01-23-11, 09:03 PM HELO Section Items D3. & D4. (Israel) bottom of the page.

That a small part of 3 almost full pages of submissions in the Patch Post Thread in the time above.

My favorite post was when I submitted the NH-90 (Top of Page 5 Item A4.) (That turned out to be a very unreliable helicopter.) for the "hidden" OOB of NEW ZEALAND I came across in the game!?! :p

Anyway to say the least it didn't get in the game. :D

I think Don would agree if he went done "memory lane" after this would agree was "one heck of a year" or something like that.

Also submitted a couple of more "clean up" items at the very bottom of that same page, one of which I believe went back to the original game.

New Zealand above, just reminded me of the following:

AUSTRAILIA/CHANGE/NZ MH-90/UNIT 446/NAME/NH-90 Taipan VICE NZ NH-90 (Sorry I had to laugh when I saw that given the above!)/END DATE/SEP 2023 VICE DEC 2025. // These helicopters have been nothing but trouble since they've operated. Germany is another major operator that's had problems with one European operator telling the manufacturer to take theirs back, and they did. A second tragic crash late last Summer was "The straw that broke the camel's back. "

They were planned to be in service until 2037.

And as seems usual when I find things: :rolleyes:
NEVER MIND the :rolleyes: at first, I thought there was more to the next until I rechecked it.

AUSTRAILIA/CHANGE/S-70 BLACKHAWK/UNIT 444/NAME/S-70A-9 Black Hawk VICE S-70 BLACKHAWK. // A minor change for a rainy day but it is their designation.

AUSTRAILIA/CHANGE/UH-60 Blackhawk/UNIT 445/NAME/UH-60M Black Hawk VICE UH-60 Blackhawk/START DATE/JUN/or OCT 2024 VICE APR 2024. // They only have 3 helos at this time being used for training. Thought I saw an article where they were thinking of leasing more from the USA
to expediate the training program. As you might remember I get the OFFICIAL Army "Newspaper" every week so like with the BOXER you'll have the FOC when I get it from them.

And BEFORE SOMEONE THINKS ABOUT IT, OFFICIAL means just that and NOT like ARMY TIMES/NAVY TIMES/MARINE CORPS TIMES etc. here.

Worthwhile "bits" from the above refs.:

"The irony of the entire Australian NH90 fiasco is that the nightmare helicopter was originally selected in preference to the UH-60M Black Hawk under the Air 9000 Australian Additional Battlefield Mobility Helicopter program back in 2004-05, apparently due to political and industrial considerations rather than operational ones."

"Australia is also expecting the delivery of new AH-64E Apache helicopters starting in 2025, to replace the Eurocopter EC665 Tiger attack helicopters."

IN CLOSING:

Concerning the NH-90 Taipan I can see END DATE of JUL 2023 as they did not fly again after the accident that month. What I summitted though was the official date vice the "safety-stand down" date. .

NORWAY was the country that has cancelled the contract and told them to come and get the rest.
"The Defense Ministry is concerned that “as of today, only eight have been delivered in a fully operational configuration. The fleet is currently required to provide 3,900 flight hours annually but in recent years it has averaged only about 700 hours.”
https://breakingdefense.com/2022/06/...r-replacement/
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...demands-refund
https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...rs-with-mh-60r
(Between 2025-2027.)

Australia ALSO operates the MH-60R I didn't see it in the OOB. Bit tired if you or someone else wants to check please.
I believe I read they were on loan from the Navy for operational and ground support.

I can run this down tomorrow for info you need all I want is OOB VERIFICATION AND IF YOU WANT THEM IN IF NOT THERE.

This has been CAPS LOCK OR NOT mess throughout this post all day yesterday doing checks in continuous rain for over 8 hours and 7.5 miles. Unable to sleep (And counting sheep felt like I was checking buildings, magazines and other things again. If they come again tonight I'll sheer them and roast them when I'm finished. :fire: :cheers:)

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Added 2250 my time.
From the Army News edition dated 31 August 2023 about 6 weeks after the crash and grounding of the NH-90; I highlighted key data below to support JULY END DATE which is more plausible now based on next below AHEAD of the article.

If you recall I discussed a similar issue with South Africa having grounded their ROOIVALK for 18 months (Which we did as well.) with a gap until I submitted the ROOIVALK Mk I when it became operational.

See FBPP Thread Page 11 Post #105 in A1 & C6 for more.

"Combined air assault a success
Capt Joanne Leca


Soldiers from 4 Regt, RAA take up positions during a bilateral air assault exercise on Exercise Alon. Photos: LCpl Riley Blennerhassett
MORE than 600 soldiers from the ADF, Philippines and US conducted an air assault near Rizal, the Philippines, during Exercise Alon as part of Indo-Pacific Endeavour.

Using a combination of air, sea, and land actions, with support from the US Marine Corps, the exercise began on August 20 with insertion of ground combat elements via MV-22B Osprey from MRF-D (USMC-Mine), launched from HMAS Canberra.

Close air support was provided by RAAF E-7A Wedge tail and F-35A Lightning II aircraft.

A helicopter assault force then established a link with the 3rd Philippine Marine Bde to secure the Punta Baja Airfield, and set up a forward arming and refuelling point.

On August 21, a joint raid was conducted at Tarumpitao Airfield by the combined forces, also with close air support.


Lt Isaac Jarvinen, of 1RAR, takes cover behind a wall during the air assault.

Lt-Col Noel A Gallaza, commander of the Philippines landing force, said the exercise demonstrated the defence forces’ collective strength to face any challenge.

“Only together, with our combined capabilities, equipment and soldiers can we promote security and stability in our region,” Lt-Col Gallaza said.

“It’s about unity and collaboration with our partners, that is why we are here.”

The event marked the first major training serial of the bilateral cooperation between the Armed Forces of the Philippines and the ADF as part of Indo-Pacific Endeavour 2023.

Commander landing force of th e Australian Amphibious Force Col Douglas Pashley said the activity was a tremendous success.

“I’m very impressed with the degree of integration and partnership I’ve seen on this exercise,” Col Pashley said.

“We came together less than two weeks ago, and then we were able to conduct a complex multinational air assault.

“We never do things alone; we always need a partner.

“Young Australians, Filipinos and US marines will remember this for the rest of their lives.”

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Pat

Save yourself a lot of typing or do a bit of investigation before making change suggestions like this. There are limits on unit names so NONE of this is really usable

The one above becomes

S-70A-9 Black H

In game reality what was there is more generally useable to a non-detail fetish player which is why "S-70 Blackhawk" was used.... it tells a player what it is and most importantly..... IT FITS the game name restrictions

VERY few players care that it is an A-9. It's fiddly rivet counting. S-70 Black Hawk with the name split into two words fits though but "UH-60M Black Hawk" does NOT fit the game format either and becomes UH-60M Black Ha when entered and dropping the M does not help

What was there was there because it worked when Black Hawk is Blackhawk and why the Black Hawks in the US OOB are Blackhawk

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Don,
Sorry didn't know about name restrictions in place.

As you know I'm about national nomenclature where possible as it's easy to track upgrades for a particular OOB as they are published.

But again, wasn't aware of name restrictions.

Just got home and turned on the TV and saw a video of Ukrainian troops withdrawing from Avanika in M-113's (Dutch ones.) and noted along both sides modified "SLAT" armor in that the mesh over the slats were of tighter "weave" then found on a chain link fence and sturdier as well. The same was mounted about 1 foot over the width and length of the roof line up to the hatch at least.

Would assume this would be true for most of the rest as well.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Nothing showing up on line about it yet that I can find

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Saw the video on CNN/CBS Evening News. Yesterday and again this evening.

ALSO I need to step back the roof section to the BACK 1/4 of the roof to provide protection to the fuel bladders inside the hull at the rear of the M-113 tracks.

Found the video it comes fast around 40s mark just after you see troops on foot running in a wooded area.
https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/202...g-lead-vpx.cnn

Just checked my link above and it works.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Yes. I saw the short shot of it. I will add a slat version

found a photo


https://www.reddit.com/media?url=htt...6746a8b4b8fa77

Re: Helo News game related.
 

So far there's been no word I the 'new" helo replacement for the PUMA HC2 we modified and as it turned out, saved. The article says they'll still be in service through 2028, however, due to several delays partly to blame on you know what and other factors I feel fully confident they'll make 2030 as well based on the 2nd Ref. concerning the extension.
https://www.flightglobal.com/defence...153340.article
https://www.raf.mod.uk/aircraft/puma-hc2/
https://www.airforce-technology.com/...k2-helicopter/
(One of the refs. I used at the time. Don where's the time gone!?!)

Since I found that article things obviously have changed Ref. 2 below is saying the competition is still on and a contract is not likely to be signed until 2025 sometime.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f...petition-stage

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Just a little diversion...Operation Mount Hope III.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...-hind-gunship/

Every "now and then" you might catch them in training ops near I-95 just south of Savannah, Ga. when operating out of Army Hunter Field.

Only one unit flies the Chinook with an extended refueling probe.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Hungary in July 23 received first of H225M Caracal https://vpk.name/en/747323_hungary-r...licopters.html (French unit 520). Reportedly can be armed with 12.7mm machine guns and 20 mm Nexter NC-621 cannons and launchers of 70 mm rockets.

Czech Republic in Aug 23 shown their first AH-1Z Viper. They're meant to be armed with Hellfire and APKWS. It also got first UH-1Y Venom by that time.

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Japan

363 AH-64DJP Apache - ending year should be probably 125 (now it's 109, earlier than corrected starting date)

Japanese Wikipedia says, according to the translator, that DJP was Boeing's designation, but Japanese forces call it just "AH-64D" (https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/AH-64D...83%9C%E3%82%A6, search for "DJP" in text). The same in Polish monographic article. The same for units 364, 951 AH-64DJP Apache.

Czech Republic
It's a detail, but 901 W-3A helicopters are also named Sokol in Czechia (Polish: Sokół).

Poland
I forgot, that since 1/24 Poland uses AW149 :) https://www.janes.com/osint-insights...for-operations. Italian unit 490 AW139 could do, with an increased carry capacity to 19. An armament as for now are only two 7.62 mm MGs in windows and 2x 7x70 mm rocket pods (not used before in this caliber).

Re: Helo News game related.
 

I've found and article on Malaysia. Sorry for digging... I wanted to fix only S-61A4 Nuri, but the deeper you dig, the more questions come...

324 S-61A4 Nuri - grounded permanently after a crash in 8/19 due to wear out and lack of spares (now ends 12/25). Unless we assume, that in case of war they would fly somehow.

We have currently (only the 21st century):
325 - Mil Mi-17 Available 01/099 to 12/125;
326 - S-70A Blackhawk - Available 01/097 to 12/104
327 - S-70A Blackhawk - Available 01/105 to 12/125
- but the article doesn't mention any other transport helicopters existing in Malaysian military in last decade or two apart from H225M (unit 664) and S-61A4 Nuri, grounding of which caused problems with transport capability.

Wikipedia doesn't list Malaysia among Mi-8/17 operators either, apart from Malaysian Fire and Rescue Department.
There were some rumours, that S-70 were to be delivered by Brunei in 2015, but it is not clear if they were https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikorsky_UH-60_Black_Hawk, which links to https://web.archive.org/web/20150322...ce.com/?p=5827

Starting from 12/21, the air force leased 4 AW-139 (we can do without them I think), and the army leased 4 UH-60A expected in 1/24 as a stopgap - but as I read, they were not delivered https://aviationweek.com/defense/air...-fails-deliver

Wikipedia doesn't list any of older helicopters (Bell 205, Agusta 212N, Whirlwind, Belvedere, Wessex) in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...n_Armed_Forces - unless the earliest ones are purely RAF. I have no other knowledge here


As for light helicopters:
We have (in the 21st century only):
307 - Wasp - Available 01/088 to 12/125
308 - Sioux - Available 01/074 to 12/125
310 - Alouette III - Available 01/063 to 12/110
311 - Chetak - Available 01/081 to 12/125
312 - Fennec - Available 01/103 to 12/125
313 - A-109 - Available 01/090 to 12/125
314 - A-109R - Available 01/103 to 12/125

Wasps were used by the navy until 2000 only.
Alouettes were withdrawn from 2009 from the army, but in 2017 from the airforce.
Fennecs are used indeed by the navy.
A109 were bought by the army only in 2005/2006.
There is no mention on any other light helos in recent period (and it is doubtful if Sioux survived that much).

However, in 3/23 MD 530G were introduced to service, as light scout/attack helicopters. They have observation devices and can be armed with 7.62mm or 12.7mm MGs and 70mm rockets.
https://www.mdhelicopters.com/malays...ning-complete/
https://fl360aero.com/detail/malaysi...ters-texas/818

Armed helicopters are in class 221 Light Attack Helicopter
540 - Ranger - Available 01/074 to 12/088 (?)
541 - Ranger - Available 01/074 to 12/088 (?)
542 - Gazelle - Available 01/078 to 12/083 (Wikipedia doesn't list Malaysia among users in Gazelle nor List of aircraft of the Malaysian Armed Forces articles)
544 - Wasp - Available 01/088 to 12/103 (until 2000, as above)
546 - Fennec - Available 06/103 to 12/125
548 - Super Lynx - Available 06/099 to 12/125 (used by the navy indeed)

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Portugal

275 SA330 Puma - according to https://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/A%C3%A...le_SA-330_Puma used only from 1970 until 2009 (now 1969-2011) (first operational flight in Angola in 10/70, probably available a bit earlier)

280 EH101 Merlin - better icon is 1904, since they are camouflaged https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...101_Merlin.jpg

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Brazil

903 - AH-2 Sabre - Available 04/110 to 12/125
904 - AH-2 Sabre - Available 04/110 to 12/125
- withdrawn in 8/22 https://www.aeroflap.com.br/fab-esta...ultimos-mi-35/

Re: Helo News game related.
 

First "NOT SO FAST" the last post provides for one Squadron of the AH-2 SABRA.

However, from that same reference further down we have the following...

"The retirement of the attack helicopters also leaves an uncertain fate for the Poti Squadron (2nd/8th GAV), which operated the Mi-35s in Porto Velho (RO). The same source added that there is a possibility that the unit will be deactivated or continue in operation with H-60 ​​Black Hawk helicopters but says that so far there is no guarantee of this. "

I recommend leaving them in there UFN.

Trying to avoid someone chasing ghosts at this time.

Digging into this after I post this.

The reason I'm here is to post the following on HIMARS getting 4 helicopter kills behind Russian lines. The warheads are larger than I thought they are 200lb fragmentation rounds versus what I thought were 150lbs.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...11e14f45&ei=46

Regards,
Pat

Re: Helo News game related.
 

IN 02/08/1969
OUT 14/04/2011
https://altimagem.blogspot.com/2014/...ira-parte.html

Thanks

Re: Helo News game related.
 

BRAZIL AH-2 SABRA UNITS 903 and 904 The following is I believe would serve as a good and viable END for this helicopter and allow a little "swag" for the other squadron I noted in my last post.

I recommend END JUN 2022.
https://www.aviacionline.com/brazili...licopter-fleet
(This is saying the last were retired just before the Russian invasion of the Ukraine. Dated 04 March 2024.

Other sites are saying Mar/Apr of 2022 of the retiring.

I'm still very comfortable with the END as just submitted.

It certainly covers all the "ambiguity" with these various dates on the web concerning the AH-2 SABRA retirement date.

ALSO... Brazil is to receive UH-60M Black Hawk (TI/GSR 40) helicopters to arrive by 2027.
https://en.clickpetroleoegas.com.br/...gthen-defense/

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Helo News game related.
 

Concerning Post 185 Poland AW-149 weapons, don't know about the machine guns or rocket pods (They do make sense though.) unless they are the ones the Italians have on theirs?

But those weapons are not listed in your ref. What is however in your JANES ref is the following...
"The AW149 is replacing the Mil Mi-2 ‘Hoplite' and some PZL-Świdnik W-3PL Głuszec multirole battlefield helicopters and will be armed with Lockheed Martin AGM-114 Hellfire II air-to-surface missiles. Deliveries are scheduled to run until 2029."

Also, according to JANES the START should be JAN 2024 as the article (Dated 8 JAN 2024.) clearly states the first 3 received were formally cleared and are fully operational and fielded by that date.
https://www.janes.com/osint-insights...for-operations

Recommend two UNITS one as submitted in Post 185 and a second with the MG's and HELLFIRE II missiles.

If Poland is receiving them from Italy with HF II capability you can be sure that Italy has theirs equipped with them as well as those missiles would require an advanced FCS.

More on them...
"The AW149s, in a configuration corresponding to the needs of the Polish Armed Forces, will be equipped with observation systems, small arms, guided missiles, unguided rockets, and self-defense systems. The helicopters will also be armed with the Hellfire missiles, 800 of those have been requested by Poland to the U.S. via a Foreign Military Sale (FMS). The armament, depending on the type and the helicopter’s configuration, may be installed in the cabin or externally on the stub wings."
https://theaviationist.com/2023/08/0...9-polish-land-
forces/

HELLRIRE II Missile: Was introduced in 1992 and has been continually updated since. Latest version as also used on APACHE the system uses a common launcher the M299 which holds 4 of these missiles. I expect the AW-149 should be able to carry 2 launchers fully loaded. APACHE-64E can hold 4 launchers or 16 missiles. We primarily use the "LONGBOW" version and the more recently the R9X HELLFIRE has become available sort of an "assassins' bullet" some refer to it as the "NINJA BOMB" suited more for operations using a UAV.
https://www.lockheedmartin.com/conte...uct-Card-1.pdf
https://theaviationist.com/2025/03/0...missile-video/
(It deploys 6 blades and essentially "chops and dices" it's way to the target. It's a non-explosive weapon.)

Regards,
Pat
:capt: