Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

This is an answer of what was posted in the B5 mod thread.


<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>From what you posted before, and what I've translated, the difference between the Fission engines and the HKIDs would be the fact that the HKIDs can store 1000x more supplies<hr></blockquote>

If you're talking about B5 fission engines, they have 0 supply storage. 1000*0=0
Their dependance on reactors is something I like and you were probably refeing to supplies stored in their reactors.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Atomic drives == fission engines.
Basic average engine.

Implosion drives == gravitic drives
More MP/KT, but much higher cost, maybe lower fuel efficiency.

HK Ion drives ?? fission engines
(SW only) Slightly more MP/KT than Atomic drive, but nearly unlimited supplies, and almost zero maintenance.<hr></blockquote>

I'm revising numbers.

I'm not sure if a ship using implosion drives should be faster than one with ion drives. Maybe only sligtly more but consume much more supplies (making it require more reactors than usual).

BTW I couldn't find a way to make a Hyperdrive (emergency energy) + a Hyperdrive Motivator (0 building, 1 repair SY) consume a lot of supplies as they are supposed to.

Every turbolaser gun is fired by 1 or 2 exclusive gunners each with indipendent sensors and computer assisted targeting. (some even have their own small redundadnt power source to continue firing if central power fails)
As I see it every weapon should be able to target enything without a multiplex tracking. But that's impossible, so I'll give them a built-in insanely strong multiplex tracking (and ISD carries ~150 weapons) or maybe included in a targeting computer (combat sensor).

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>If you're talking about B5 fission engines, they have 0 supply storage. 1000*0=0
Their dependance on reactors is something I like and you were probably refeing to supplies stored in their reactors.<hr></blockquote>Right. So once HKIDs come out, you also get a BEC (hypermatter) reactor as a simultaneously required tech.
You could install the reactors on any ship and use them to power a more efficient drive, but the fact that the HKIDs are almost free means that the other drives remain viable in only a small range of uses.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I'm not sure if a ship using implosion drives should be faster than one with ion drives. Maybe only sligtly more but consume much more supplies (making it require more reactors than usual).<hr></blockquote>Also a higher maintenance cost per MP, right? That would leave you the options of:
- small fleet of slightly faster ships
- jaw-dropping numbers of slower ships.
- piles of slower ships, and a few special forces speedships.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>BTW I couldn't find a way to make a Hyperdrive (emergency energy) + a Hyperdrive Motivator (0 building, 1 repair SY) consume a lot of supplies as they are supposed to.<hr></blockquote>You've got it as an emergency movement pod already, right? Try making it an emergency supply pod too, providing -9999 supplies.

"(some even have their own small redundadnt power source to continue firing if central power fails)"
SE4's got that down already http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Building the multiplex into the weapons is a good idea.
Beware of stacking combat sensors on different component families!

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Mov/Ton of all engines

Standard:
Name

Ion Engine
Tonnage: 10
Movs: 1
Ratio: 0.1

Contra - Terrene Engine
Tonnage: 10
Movs: 1
Ratio: 0.1
+ 1 bonus

Jacketed - Photon Engine
Tonnage: 10
Movs: 1
Ratio: 0.1
+ 2 bonus

Quantum Engine
Tonnage: 10
Movs: 1
Ratio: 0.1
+ 3 bonus

B5 Fission:
Size: Light - Medium - Heavy - Huge
Ton: 10 - 60 - 100 - 200
Mov: 1 - 7 - 12 - 25
Ratio: 0.1 - 0.116666667 - 0.12 - 0.125

B5 Fusion:
Size: Light - Medium - Heavy - Huge
Ton: 5 - 30 - 50 - 100
Mov: 1 - 7 - 12 - 25
Ratio: 0.2 - 0.233333333 - 0.24 - 0.25

B5 Anti-Matter:
Size: Light - Medium - Heavy - Huge
Ton: 5 - 30 - 50 - 100
Mov: 1 - 7 - 12 - 25
Ratio: 0.2 - 0.233333333 - 0.24 - 0.25
+1 bonus

B5 Gravimetric:
Size: Light - Medium - Heavy - Huge
Ton: 5 - 30 - 50 - 100
Mov: 1 - 7 - 12 - 25
Ratio: 0.2 - 0.233333333 - 0.24 - 0.25
+1 bonus

(most advanced engine of each tech gets a little smaller size and a slightly increment in ratio)

So basically all B5 engines come in these "mounts"
Mount - Ton/Cost/Sup - Movs
Light - 1x - 1x
Medium - 6x - 7x
Heavy - 10x - 12x
Huge - 20x - 25x

I'll add a new scale called Massive (50x - 80x) but I'll have to be careful not to pass the 255 movs limit (before dividing by the eng per move).
That's really a bad restriction to newtonian movements in really big ships.

My idea of SW
Atomic Drives
Size: Light - Heavy - Massive
Ton: 12 - 120 - 600
Mov: 1 - 12 - 80
Ratio: 0.083333333 - 0.1 - 0.133333333

Implosion Drives
Size: Light - Heavy - Massive
Ton: 10 - 100 - 500
Mov: 1 - 13 - 85
Ratio: 0.1 - 0.13 - 0.17
(Ratios are lower than HKID, but since max engines are by number not % you can get higher final speed, supply consume will also be very high)

HK Ion Drives
Size: Light - Heavy - Massive
Ton: 8 - 80 - 400
Mov: 1 - 12 - 80
Ratio: 0.125 - 0.15 - 0.2

So I hope this explains my original point with numbers.
I made HK Ion Drives slightly better than standard ION ENGINES, and I'm also too close to the maximun limit to make them any better.
I can't show progress in propulsion if I make SW atomic drives == B5 fission engines

As I see it we have to option.
Make B5 fission engines worse (are they supposed to be primitive anyway?)
Or forget about this little idea of making similar techs have similar performance.

BTW gravity manipulation hasn't been left behind in starwars, Repulsorlifts (anti-grav engines) are still very used and the best choice within a planet. They are used not only by ships but also by land speeders atmospheric fighters, and droids. I didn't mention them because they'd have no use in SE IV. Interdictors can project planet sized gravity wells, and tractor beams operate with a combination of gravitic and magnetic pull.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I made HK Ion Drives slightly better than standard ION ENGINES, and I'm also too close to the maximun limit to make them any better.
I can't show progress in propulsion if I make SW atomic drives == B5 fission engines

As I see it we have to option.
Make B5 fission engines worse (are they supposed to be primitive anyway?)
Or forget about this little idea of making similar techs have similar performance.<hr></blockquote>Or break up the B5 fission engine into two: Normal and advanced fission engines.

With the first bit of propulsion tech research, B5 goes to advanced fission, while SW goes to implosion.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Why is it so important to make Fission Engines good?
All races have at least Fusion and you hardly ever see primitive fission tech, just make it something bad that is quickly left behind.

maintenance per MP?????
Manteincance is determined by cost, isn't it?
They'll be expensive then.

Another detail is that "sub-light speed" matters very little in final speed and range once hyperdrives come into play (better get a faster hyperdrive rather than faster sub-light engines).
The bigger more expensive engines would only make a difference in combat.

Making it also a negative supply pod. I didn't think of that, but it doesn't seem to work in my tests.

It would be cool to give each gun a +1 multiplex tracking. But multiplex tracking does not stack.

Targeting Computers would be the only combat sensor for SW races (besides something related with The Force), making them combat sensor+multiplex tracking ain't that bad.
I'm more worried about balancing the staking Jamming Sensors (Sector - Sensor Interference + weak Combat To Hit Defense Plus)

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>maintenance per MP?????
Manteincance is determined by cost, isn't it?
They'll be expensive then.<hr></blockquote>Yeah. It is something to consider when building a ship. Do you want to pay $1000 per turn for 8MP, or $400 per turn for 7MP?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Another detail is that "sub-light speed" matters very little in final speed and range once hyperdrives come into play (better get a faster hyperdrive rather than faster sub-light engines).
The bigger more expensive engines would only make a difference in combat.<hr></blockquote>There's your reason why SW fission engines can be less efficient than B5 drives. They are used to go everywhere in B5 except for the hyperspace transition, while in SW you don't need them during FTL travel, right?

I think these races should be beyond fission drives by the time they meet. How often do you fight with Ion I's in SE4?

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Why is it so important to make Fission Engines good?<hr></blockquote>The B5 fusion engines have double the speed of the fission drives. Isn't that bad enough? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>There's your reason why SW fission engines can be less efficient than B5 drives.<hr></blockquote>
SW later engines are less efficient, and hulls will have restrictive max engines, it's just that fission engines are the same technology. They could even share the same components, and if we add a custom pic the same pic.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The B5 fusion engines have double the speed of the fission drives. Isn't that bad enough? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif <hr></blockquote>
Fission is still 24% cheaper than standard Ion Engines. And 1000% more resistant to damage but that might be to make vital comps more difficult to kill and compensate lack of shielding, so it's ok with me.
So if as you said races should be beyond fission drives by the time they meet.
Why do they have to start with better engines?
Besides the consistency issue, B5 races would have an advantage if for example two races start in the same system

I can try to go the other way and revise SW to make atomic drives == fission engines and the others a little better. But if engines have too many movements I'll pass the 255 limit in the big ships, and will have to make them use very little engines and lower their eng per move.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Fission is still 24% cheaper than standard Ion Engines. And 1000% more resistant to damage but that might be to make vital comps more difficult to kill and compensate lack of shielding, so it's ok with me.<hr></blockquote>Actually, the components with higher damage resistance are much easier to kill (or at least hit).
Anything higher than about 250 hitpoints will not be protected by even the "Heavy" basic armor, as I have it set now.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>I can try to go the other way and revise SW to make atomic drives == fission engines and the others a little better. But if engines have too many movements I'll pass the 255 limit in the big ships, and will have to make them use very little engines and lower their eng per move.<hr></blockquote>You could scale down the heavy/massive drives from 10x and 50x, down to 5x and 25x. That would give you plenty of room to bump up efficiency and even increase the engine limits to 6.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

The engines are being reworked (or should I say retrofitted?) as we speak http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif lowering their HP to around what SJ had suggested in the B5 thread.

Also, one thing to note : I had put the fision engines in the B5 mod for the 'under developed' races (Grom/Hurr) or as a spring board into higher tech engines if you are playing a game from scratch. Ideally, most races will start with a level of Fision tech and basic Fusion tech. In the scenario (I am still hoping for a scenario builder so I don't have to do it the long way) some races would even start with Anti-Matter and Gravitic drives (Vree/Centauri and Brakiri/Minbari) to be more true to the series.

Just re-reading the Posts, the 1000% increase in HP for the basic engine was due to the way we were going to do armor and repair originally in the B5 Mod. At first everything was going to be x10 (struct ton, damage, etc.) so we could simulate simple repairs for ships. This way crews could be working on repairing an otherwise crippled ship to get her underway again. But, unfortunately, the organic armor ability doesn't quite work the way we would like it to, ah well!

[ 04 February 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I added the B5 comps posted yesterday. (still have to check what was posted today)
I added the racial trait to tech areas, but I forgot to rename "Propulsion" to "Babylon 5 Propulsion" as I had done Last time, and discovered 2 interesting things
(maybe these are old news and already being used in some mod but I don’t remember any post about them before)
1- the game doesn’t have a problem with 2 technologies named the same.
2- Races with B5 tech gained standard engines. So any of the 2 technologies with the same name can be a prerequisite for components (and presumably other game items). In this case it’s a bug, and I’ll have to rename the tech area but that feature can be deliberately used to make a more complex tech trees where the same tech can be gained in different ways.
It may be very useful to allow certain technologies to be shared by a few races, and allow races starting with some higher level without having to make an exclusive racial trait for that tech.

I promise to post the data files and the .xls file I’m using as mailmerge source soon.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

The engines for B5 have been reworked for structure and such, so you may want to hold off on integrating them yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Also you need to add the Fission, Fusion, Antimater, Gravitc and Hyperspace Techs (these are corrected in the updated TechArea file in the B5 Thread as well). They should all be at the end of the TechAreas in the B5 Mod.

There are also some new test weapons for B5, the other weapons couldn't hurt the ships for anything!

Neat discovery, do you know which level it takes? The first listing of the tech or the second?

[ 05 February 2002: Message edited by: Val ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I had added all the tech areas, and also added them the racial B5 racial trait number (7 IIRC).
But since no ene else has techs with the same name there was no conflict

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I tried turning on "Standard SE4" and "B5", both propulsion tech areas appeared in the research window, but all comps appeared in the second one and no one in the first.
The same happened when I only turned on "Standard SE4", propulsion tree was empty.
Once again I was jumping to conclusion too early without proper observation. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/blush.gif
That's why no one has ever posted about this. It doesn't work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

AH well...

Anyway, I fixed the Engines/Reactors and posted some test weapons on the B5 Mod thread. SJ also posted some ECM components. Armor and the other 190 weapons will be soon to follow if tests go well. Then all we have to do is the AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Preliminary SW comps, need more revision and changes to be made, my ships were outgunned by ships with DUC I! And there are some more still to add such as all fighter stuff that should be really important in starwars.
But I like how they're working so far.
I also included the excel file I use as mailmerge source.
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/Starwars.zip

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

WHat was the final decision on the following two issues:

Ion Beams - the extra ability for them to disable will be?

Engines - What 'useless' ability are we standardizing for use?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Ion Beams - Shouldn't they just kill supply. I' kinda certain that damage type is available, but I haven't checked in some time.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ion Beams - the extra ability for them to disable will be?<hr></blockquote>That has to be boarding defense, because of the damage types available.

Otherwise you can't shut down weapons and shields at the same time.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Ion Beams can damage:
*Life Support
*Bridge
*Aux. Bridge
*Shield Regenerators (or shield generators that include regeneration ability)
*Point Defense Cannons
(Different races and Groups may have their own Versions of these comps, and all of them will have to include the boarding defense ability (unless they are specifically invulnerable to ions, eg living ships). Not sure if hide it or make it look like an advantage.)

The "disabled" target will be dramatically slowed down and unable to raise shields or shoot down fighters.
Then a slow and vulnerable assault shuttle (fighter) can safely aproach and board it.
The target woud still be able to fire its main weapons, but their chance to hit a fighter are low.
Boarding parties would still have to overcome crew quarters innate defense to be succesful. (And big ships will have many crew quarters, making them harder to board)
After the battle, (boarded or not) total damage of the disabled ship would be relatively low and could be rapidly repaired.
<hr></blockquote>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Ok, now what was the final call on engines?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

All we have to do is choose a different "useless ability" for each engine size.
I made SW engines of the same sizes of B5 engines (at least the same sizes of fission engienes) so they could use the same abilities.
I also made different sizes of shields, so we may need to add them other "useless abilities"

Take a look at these pics:
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/sw_pics.zip

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Engines and reactors changed a little in the B5 Mod. I also took your advice and gave the different engine types a facelift (each group looks different now). The reactors will have to wait until after I finish the rest of the weapons and components (another 78 to go) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

All the latest data files are now compiled in the latest update - though it does not include any components from standard SE IV that the mod won't be using (such as the SE IV weapons). Med Bays have also been updated.

B5ModUpdate.zip

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Before anyone points this out, just realized I accidently genned out the Med Bays to X and Advanced Med Bay to 15. To make the Drahk plague work properly, delete Med Bays V-X and in the text for the Advanced Med Bay change all '15's to '5's. In effect, this makes a plague level 5 the Drahk plague and it can only be cured by finding the 'Cure for Nano-Virus' in a ruins. Another thing to mention, the plague bombs go from I-X, but only achieve Plague 4 (with varrying damage and range) and the Drahk Plague I-X goes from Plague 3 to 5, allowing them to start with a more powerful plague than anyone can easily cure right away (if they choose to use it) and lets them develop the dreaded Plague 5.

Not sure how you want to handle this in the Sci-Fi mod, it's too bad we can't increase to Plague 6 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I like it.
Other races such as the Y Vong and the 8472 should also have plagues as an important part of their arsenal. Maybe even the dreaded lev 5.
Finding the cure in ruins sounds good, too bad the plague can't remain dormant for some time. If someone else finds the cure first you may be forced to do some crazy trade to get a working med ship with the cure.

Hmm races with "Standard SE4" would still get normal plague weapons/med bays, maybe I sould lower that to lev 4.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I was hoping you might lower the standard to Level IV med bays, makes the Drahk plague (and others) more deadly.

I left it as a ruin tech so it could only be found, but there is no reason we couldn't make the medical tech absurdly long (like up to level 50) and if someone really wants to research it all the way out, knowing there is no other bonuses in between 4-49, then let them spend the time and $$ to research a cure. This way the ruins are still there for a quick fix - plus it may give someone a valuable trade commodity, or make their ships target for takeover!

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Will we be including 'hyperspace' drives that will actually allow units to create warp points?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I'm not sure, but warp manipulation components probably won't work on sats or fighters.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I was thinking of a 'ship only' component, and if I get some light shed on the Unique component thing then we can limit it to larger ships!

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Sorry but ISTR those restrictions were something only mentioned in the headings and never implemented.
The only way to restrict a comp to big ships would be to make it very big or need so many supplies that con only come from a large reactor.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

The supply thing is a good idea! Though a person could use a fleet pool supplies, they would still have to seperate to activate the gate and would need extra supplies! Pure genius! Could also make a slightly heavier reactor with a bit more supplies for jump cabable ships.

Now next Q. Can we program the AI to close the gate after going throguh? Would have to rely on humans to be honest though, unless they finally make a Warp Point that will auto collapse after X number of rounds (in this case 1)! Would love that ability and the ability to make delayed arrival Warp Points!

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

AI seems to handles warp openers and closers in a very chaotic way.
At least you have jump gates in B5.
There's nothing similar to warp points in star wars. You have hyperlanes, known and well cartographied routes where hypredrives can be faster, but you can basically move freely in any direction if you're craeful to plan a route that does not get too close to large stellar bodies.
I can't make an Interdictor that doen not allow enemies to jump warp points or use emergency movement "hyperdrives". Since the only way to block a warp point is by closing it I'll make it a warp closer (and opener at higher level), but the wp won't automatically re-open once the interdictor is destroyed.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Check out the B5 Mod thread for a vote on what we are doing with racial/weapon techs. Would like y'alls input http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Death Star Superlaser and weapon mounts Q:
Besides its planet destroying ability, I want the death star main weapon to be the strongest possible weapon, able to destroy almost any ship in a single shot. Maximum damage allowed by the game is 65k. But to avoid overflow (specially if I want AI to handle it) it will have to be 65k using the best weapon mount available.
Since we have many ships that will be larger than baseships, it makes sense to have more weapon mounts. I was temporarily using the weapon mounts from my "ultimate vehicle size" mod, but I think those are too much and too big. At least in Star Wars very big ships carry an impressively large number of relatively small weapons.

Capturable Techs Q:
If you give a tech area a race exclusive requisit, but don't add it the racial number, only those who have the racial trait can start to research it, but others can gain it by analyzing captured ships or using intel.
In a full tech start all will have it.
It would be nice to have a few "capturable" race-exclusive tech areas, something that is not too alien to another race or sci-fi.

Wished Abilities List:
A list of all new abilities (and damage types, restrictions, changes to existing abilities, etc.) we'd like to have to make this mod more complete and realistic. And then send it to MM, I understand some would require major changes and are not worth it, but IMO at least some of them would be relatively easy to add.
These are the ones I can recall now, but I'm sure there a lot more:
* Limited reactor ability: Like Solar Supply generation, it generates a limited amount of supplies every turn, but independent from the number of stars.
* Make the "cannot be repaired except by a space yard ability" in emergency pods, a separated ability from the pod ability, so it can be removed or used in other comps.
* Repair bays that can only repair a specific type of components. (Probably by specifying custom group)
* Open Temporary Warp Point: A wp that automatically collapses after the ship has crossed or at the end of the turn.
* Spatial Anomaly ability: it works like the Spatial Anomaly "Ship - Moved" event type, but it can be triggered on purpose by activating a component or something like that. At lower levels your ship ends up anywhere, but later you start to learn how to control it and you're able to specify system and even sector you want to go.
* The ability to use non-damaging weapons such as tractor beams against your own ships. If possible even to pull a damaged ship or a station outside combat.
* Warp Point Interdiction: When a component with this ability is turned on in the same sector of a warp point, the WP is unusable. No ship can cross the WP from the side, until the interdictor component is destroyed, turned off or leaves the sector.
* Disable damage type: Normal damage against shields, once shields are down it disrupts all ship functions leaving it dead in space (the ship can't move, can't fire weapons and can't regenerate shields) but without any real damage. After the combat finishes, the ship will be fully functional again, maybe it loses all supplies or something like that, but components are not damaged.
* Space Cities / Populated Stations / Artificial Planets: Something between a planet and a space station. It holds population not only as cargo, it needs population to run resource-generating small facility-like components.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

To get around the limited reactors problem of needing stars, we were going to include "invisible stars" in Black Hole and Nebulas - even made a center piece from the Black Hole BMP to overlap.

Would love to see the "Can't be repaired bit" as an ability.

Temporal one turn Warps would be great too - or even the ability to set the number of turns as the variable.

Wouldn't the interdictor just stop a ship as it enters it's gravity well? So ships could warp in, but they couldn't warp out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I know about the getarounds, to work properly mod all systems to have 1 and only 1 star.
But adding that ability should be really for thosue that can alter the source code. And would make reactors something different from strong solar colectors.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Acutally, you just need "at least one star", since the reactors have generation = capacity, and the generators are the only supply storage on the ship.
You can still have binary & trinary systems.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Laser colors:
Apparently the color (wavelength of the visible part) has nothing to do with strength of the weapon, but it's only used as an ID method.
Rebels use red lasers and Imperials use green ones in all sizes and weapon mounts, from a fighter or mechanized troop small cannon to the Death Star main weapon.
The question is: is it worth it to make different Versions of the same weapon that only fire in different colors?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>The question is: is it worth it to make different Versions of the same weapon that only fire in different colors?<hr></blockquote>Is it worth it in order to get really cool looking battles?
Since its only a cut-and-paste thing, I'd say go for it.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I'm thinking about the facilities.

It has been pointed before that killing planets and pop is too easy. Some ideas about that were adding planetary shields, increasing power of weapon platforms and increasing hitpoints of pop.
Now IIRC you were considering appliying some of these ideas in the B5 mod, right?

But in starwars killing pop seems to work very similar to SE4.
It's easy to kill all pop using standard weaponry, and if the planet is shielded,bombarding it is completely useless.
Many attack on planets depend on sabotage missions to take down the planetary shields before the attack. Eg Camaas, and even Endor (although the attack wasn't on the planet itself)

But neither Bab5 or Trek have planetary shields.

This is what i was thinking, Bab5 and STrek have some shields as a second ablity in normal facilities, while SWars have special facilities. That way SW planets will be more vulnerable and easy to kill if unshielded but better protected shielded, while still having their "unique" planetary shields.
Putting numbers to all planetary shields would be the ral problem.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

BTW what happened with Terran's and Fyron's interest in the Trek part?
Are you trying some things?
Don't feel intimidated by our opinions/suggestions. Not enough time?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Whichever idea y'all like would be good.

I was thinking about upping the pop damage, but haven't done anything as of yet. I had also wanted to make it so you would need to use planetary weapons to attack planets, so normal lasers couldn't do anything. Maybe the planetary shields built into all facilities are the best idea, then upping the damage on planetary barrage weapons. Meshes pretty well with the SW shield idea.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Hey there, I noticed that you are a little light on the Trek side of things so I figured that I might as well toss in a couple thoughts.

I saw some very good ideas on trek propulsion a few pages back that seems perfect (posted by SuicideJunkie I think). Only problem was that those designs were based on standard movement (more appropriate for trek I think)not Q-N. Is that a problem? Can you have multiple propulsion types like that in the same mod?

The way you seem to be doing things (with each race having its own tech trees and such) this doesn't seem to be too much of a problem. Then again, what do I know, all I have to play around with is the demo (at least until gold comes out). Though, if you could maintain both types it would go a long way towards giving a unique star trek feel to their races.

I was also wondering if there was a way to have central tech areas where each of the individual races could branch off of instead of having multiple redundant tech areas for each race. For example, instead of having Federation ship construction, Empire ship construction, etc., you could have every race research "ship construction" (modifying the tech area so that it is empty, ie. provides nothing for researching it by itself) and have each ship require the appropriate tech level of ship construction *and* a single level in "Klingon Tech", "Rebel Tech" or whatever.

These race techs could be limited to only one level (or more) that is automatically given to a specific race (starting level 1). This could also be used to tie other techs together, like beam weapons, propulsion, etc.

By now you may be asking yourself "Why in Hell would I want to do that?". Well I'll tell ya. So far as I've seen you've gone to a great deal of effort to balance out the various techs while allowing each race to maintain its own style. This is good and is the entire point of doing a crossover mod. The problem that I see is that with the current setup one of the key aspects of the game has been removed. You can no longer trade/steal/reverse-engineer tech. If all tech areas are racial then they cannot be shared with other races.

I have heard that if you remove the racial number from a racial tech area then it can be learned by anyone who gets their hands on it ( though they can't initially research it). While this option might be a good idea for certain techs I think that it would be a bad idea for the basics. After all, having Ferengi cruising around in star destroyers of their own design is just wrong. Not to mention that you could wind up having ten different ship construction areas in your research areas. That could get annoying.

However, if you have things based off of a single tech tree (as I tried to describe above) you could have the Narn analyze a captured galaxy class ship to give them ideas on how to create bigger ships of their own. Also, I figured that beam weapons could also be a good crossover option. After all, the main difference between lasers, bLasters, and phasers is aplication (phasers slow and accurate, bLasters fast though less accurate, etc.). Granted, I know that the actual tech behind them may differ quite a bit (I haven't read the tech manuals or any such) but that is less important than you might think.

Some of you may wonder whether this applies "story"-wise. I think it does. Take Star Trek for example (mainly because it is one of the few shows that tried to show adaptation or integration of tech). Many times has the crew of the Enterprise (or Voyager, etc.) encountered a new, previously unknown tech (or a more advanced Version of a known one) and, after analysis, have used this knowledge to upgrade their own weapon systems without changing them (they didn't change their phasers to disruptors, just cranked their phasers).

Please consider this option, I think that it would add a lot to the mod. Though I may just be acting out of selfishness, since I am working on a Borg mod (they currently have a -80 on research and some racial techs that are appropriately lowered in cost) and if they have nothing to assimilate then what is the point? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Joking aside, I do think that this is a good idea. I just hope that I said it coherently. It is very early in the morning...

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

There's no problem in having multiple prop types. Unless someone "cheats" when selecting racial traits, you'll never see b5 engines in trek hulls.
I admit I'm tempted to abandon q-n movs for the sw ships in order to be able to restrict standard movements more easily.

I like your idea of common tech trees and I admit I had thought about it and discarded it as too complicated (what means that I was too lazy to implement it at that time)
But I’d go for a mixed system, it works nicely for “ship construction”, but I’m not sure about beam weapons, it’d sound strange to research “Energy Stream Weapons” to get phasers, disruptors or turbolasers.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

The tech tree that is setup in the ever evolving B5Mod is actually setup so the initial trait to start researching any racial tech (other than Ancients) is Racial only, but then that is a requirement for the other techs within that race (weapon, special facilities, bioengineering, etc.), this way another race can capture a ship, reverse engineer, and then start building them. The only exception to this are the Ancients. Right now their technology is restricted to their specific Ancient race - though I made add another racial trait called "B5 Ancient" and have some of their generic stuff (for all Ancient Races) in there. Even with that being said, both the Vorlons and Shadows have a special Tech called "Vorlon/Shadow Based", which will allow races to build things like a Shadow Omega or White Star. Once all the weapons I am currently working on are done, I plan to go back and add some more "Shadow/Vorlon" specific weapons for the other races (right now any race can get them, but I would like the current ones limited to EA, Minbari and IA).

I had originally thought about making the tech tree in such a way that all races theoritically had the ability to research along any given tech path. But, that kind of took away from the feel of the B5 universe - so now it is done as described in the first paragraph.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I just rendered this pic:
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/intro.jpg

It's still work in progress, I want to add another capital ship behind the Omega (I'm not sure wich, choice will also depend on the models I can find). I will add small explosions, more beams and some torps everywhere, not only that lonely X-wing but lots of fighters from different races.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Andrés Lescano:
I just rendered this pic:
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/intro.jpg
<hr></blockquote>


This looks cool!

Sorry for the interruption, first time checkingn this thread and I see the above http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif .

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

I realize its tough to fit lots of ships on the screen at once, but it looks like all three of those ships are about to ram each other http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
The galaxy is quite flexible for attack orientation, and the B5 Omega could be shooting at something farther away...

I don't know how easy it would be to also change the nametags on the Enterprise-D and the Agamemnon. The history of those ships dosen't really work for a crossover.

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Well I wanted close ups of very big ships so the only way to make them fit was to put them very close.

BTW details of the Agamemnon's cannons would work great for components.

Changing the names would be easy. There are just text in texture maps all I need to do is find a matching font and type another name. Any suggestions?
And BTW you cannot read Enterprise, the tag number is hard to see and you can only recognize it if you're already know it.
But wait why should I change the names?
Many crossover stories (fan-made of course) include those ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
So that ISD could be the "Devastator" (Lord Vader's ship in ANH) and that X-Wing be piloted by Luke Skywalker and Artoo-Deetoo.

The ships ramming each other:
The Agamemnon rams the Devastator, and is destroyed taking most of its shields.
The Enterprise would have been able to avoid the explosion with more ease, but Picard waited until the Last second to order the evasive maneuvers so it's impacted by a few debris that bounce harmlessly from its shields.
As the star destroyer's shields are down, the Enterprise beams a small team to the Devastator's bridge.
Vader slices Worf in 2 with his lightsaber while the stormtroopers finish off the rest of the invaders.
The Enterprise has problems targeting the many small and fast TIEs that swarm around it.
The good old method doesn't work:
"Ensign, prepare to fire phasers on the nearest fighter on my mark."
Pircard stands, straightens his uniform and orders "Fire!"
On the other hand there are more than 60 trigger happy gunners shooting at the Enterprise, computer programmed evasive maneuvers are no match for them.
They are too distracted by the easy target that they fail to see the X-Wing approaching from the bottom until it's too late.
Luke fires two torpedoes directly into the star destroyer main reactor.
Vader had escaped in a shuttle but the nor crippled Enterprise is able to take down his shields and beam him on board before he can jump into hyperspace.
The dark lord of the sith makes his way out of the brig by making a hole in the wall with his lightsaber and starts slaying anyone he finds.
Vader forces Geordi to freeze Riker in carbonite.
Troy: "I love you."
Riker: "I know."
Luke lands in the shuttlebay and hurries to help.
Lightsaber duel, Vader cuts Luke's hand off.
Vader: "Luke I am your father. Join me together we will rule this galaxy as father and son."
Luke: "Nooooo!", and he jumps into the warp shaft.
Then the Falcon comes and helps Luke can get away.

Ok that was too much and I was getting nowhere.

[ 01 March 2002: Message edited by: Andrés Lescano ]</p>

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Neat pic http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Maybe add a few Tie fighters and Starfuries/T-Bolts.

What did you use to render? Do you have any other ships - esp B5 stuff I could use for weapon samples?

Re: Star Wars Mod - II (Sci-Fi Xover Mod)
 

Here's latest update:
http://se4kdy.cyberwars.com/temp/intro2.jpg

Val you asked that a millon times and I always answered I use 3ds Max.
Moved the ships around, and added more. It's getting a little overcrowded, but that was the intention.
I couldn't find a good StarFury model. Maybe Rambie knows, I'll have to ask.