Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Dimaz has asked me to post in the thread, as I mentioned to him that restarting might be an option.

As it's only turn 5, and since there's no guarantee a sub is going to be found, it might just be easier to cut our loses now, and restart with 13 players to have a 'clean' game (free of subs and broken rules), rather than wait an unknown amount of time for a sub to turn up.(As we certainly can't continue with an AI nation.)

I reckon I can re-do the map for 13 starts this evening in less than an hour, and there's a fair chance we could be back to turn 5 by Wednesday's turn deadline, resulting in no real time being lost.

(probably best to post replies to Dimaz rather than thread, as we don't want any more rules broken or ID's compromised)

Edit - I might just re-do the map anyway, since I have a bit of free time right now.

Edit 2 - Just realised we need a good sub as well :( Since given the player line-up, the high chance of a newb being unsure of the nation he'd inherit, and the unfamiliar plan of his predecessor, a newb would likely be just as unbalancing as staling or AI. Why can't players spend just 5 minutes to read the rules :mad:

Edit 3 - Ok, map is re-done for 12+1 if needed. Quite a nice fix actually, as a few of the poorer starts managed to get a bit of love in the process :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

So far we have 3 votes for restart and 0 for continuing.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Here's the map for the restart (if it happens).

Everyone will need to download the image file again, as I've made a few changes to it. (mainly I did something I should have done before, which is to make sure nobody starts on a Forest, as that can trigger the nasty Ancient Presence event)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

I received 2 more votes for restart and 1 for setting offender to AI. Looks like we're heading for restart. I've received the following instruction about restart - (quickest way would be roll back all the turns until the start, un-start the game, change maps, and click start. Rather than creating a new game and waiting for Pretender uploads). Is it correct? If yes, I'll do it in a few hours.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

I think that's the best way, but then I would think that seeing as how I wrote it :)

I've just set up a new game on the llamaserver to test that theory out though. As it is just a theory based on what I know of how the llamaserver works from all the games I've admined. But restarting a game on turn 5 is not something that I've actually done before though.

The game is called RestartTest, and I'll host turns until turn 5 is reached, then see if I can roll the game back to turn 1 and un-start it. (will post results when it's done)

Edit - Test game is up to turn 5, so I am rolling back now.

Must say I'm a bit concerned that someone thinks that the AI appearing on turn 5 in a vet game is the best option? As that's by far the worst IMO, and likely ruins the game on the spot.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ok, the test went as follows...

I submitted turns in the test game until turn 5 was reached, then rolled the game back to turn 1 and un-started it. The result of which was the game reappeared in the "Games Waiting For Pretenders" area of the llamaserver, where it needed to be :) I then tested removing Pretenders, changing maps and mods (all seemed ok). After this I then restarted the game and played the first turn of all three nations. (which is where that game is now). Again this went nice and smoothly and to plan. Here's the game logs

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAc...n=showadminlog

06:26 GMT on Monday April 11th Rolled game back to turn 4.
06:37 GMT on Monday April 11th Rolled game back to turn 3.
06:42 GMT on Monday April 11th Rolled game back to turn 2.
06:54 GMT on Monday April 11th Rolled game back to turn 1.
06:57 GMT on Monday April 11th Returned game to the "Waiting for pretenders" state.

But.... (sadly there's always a 'but' :()


I did notice that the admin option to "Un-start game (go back to "Waiting for Pretenders" was available on turn 5. Which wasn't what I expected to see. And a new game (TrojanHorses) that I started yesterday as admin also has the option available on turn 2. So the option to Un-start a game appears to be time based and not turn based as I originally thought. Whether or not it's only time based though I have no idea right now (as the option could appear on turn 1 or within X hours of the game starting).

Llamabeast would likely know the answer to whether the Un-start option is time based or turn+time based. But right now I'm a big question mark on the matter? As the option to Un-start might appear if the game is rolled back to turn 1, but then again it might not.

Of course the other way to restart is just to create a new game and get everyone to send Pretenders again. Although if the game is restarting for definite one way or the other, then there's probably no harm in trying to roll the current game back to turn 1 and see if the Un-start option appears. (as then the worst case scenario is the Un-start option doesn't appear, and the game has to be deleted. But that would happen anyway if a new game is created.)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Um... hard to follow all the words, but I think the "Un-start game" option is available until turn 6.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

OK, looks like I've managed to do this procedure of rollbacks and restart and the game is waiting for first turn from everyone. Hope nothing went wrong except for restart itself. But if you have any problems with new turn, please write me ASAP. Also I recommend completely deleting game folder from savegames and creating new one, just in case.
Also, I think some of the players are interested who caused all the mess. Well, I regret to inform you that it was Ossa playing Caelum, the same person who did the same thing (sending NAP proposal) in another RAND game YARG1. So I hope you understand that I had no other choice but to remove him from the game. Also I recommend taking special measures next time you see he tries to join a game with game-specific rules (as he's clearly not paying enough attention to them).
Good luck everyone, and let the most skillful win (again!) :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Thanks for the smooth admining Dimaz.

:doh: I didn't even think to check if the Un-start option was there on turn 5, as I assumed it was only there on turn 1. But having just found this game on turn 7.

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo....ies_and_Sharks

I can indeed see that the Un-start option is there :doh::doh::doh: So the rollbacks themselves probably weren't needed. Oh well, another llamasever lesson for my experience log.

----------
Judging from the VP's, all the start locations seem to match the revised map.

No way, it can't be Ossa again. How can someone get booted out of a game for making the exact same mistake you got booted out for last time. It boggles the mind how anyone can have no capability to learn from past mistakes.

But there's always room on my blacklist for more names :) (as I did give him the benefit of the doubt in YARG1, but no chance of that here)


Thanks for sorting the restart out Dimaz. And one good thing about it is that at least the re-start gives us all a few more days of playing before Dr.P engulfs us all with his army of nightmares.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Oh, turn 7! Maybe it lasts until turn 12 then. I thought it made sense to keep it available for a fair while, but eventually take it away so that some crazed admin didn't "unstart" a game on turn 40.

I'll keep an eye on the new game I started last night and let you know when the option disappears :) (or this game of course, depending on which one goes quickest)

And Un-starting a game on turn 50 in a rage fit has to be the new "in" thing I reckon :cool: as rage quitting simply because you were attacked is just so last season :yawn:

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Time itself writhes like a serpent, in cunning mimicry of the horrific tortures you will all endure.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Boy, what a mess. But very well handled Dimaz. (And Calahan for a record-speed map-conversion.)

I did strangely (besides a number of rollback notifications and the expected new turn 1) get an email from the Llamaserver with the subject line: "Andalusian sun, Turn 5 received...", in the email itself it told me: "Hello! Please find the attached turn file - Hinnom turn 71 for the game cyberrand4." While in effect the mail itself did not contain any attachment at all.

As I said, I did get a correct turn 1, so I suppose I can just ignore it, but thought I'd mention the weird behaviour anyway.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Amhazair - wow, weirdest bug I ever heard of!

Re: ANDalusian Sun. Anonymous LA game for (rather) experienced players (Recruiting)
 

Weird... Ossa himself mentioned no-diplomacy when signing up, so it wasn't even that he didn't read the OP and knew from the start. The mind boggles...

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

@ All

I forgot to mention that for the revised map, I re-connected 44-28 (like on the original Riverlands map). Since one of the main reasons I removed it for the first map was to help with fitting the starts in. But with one less Land nation in the game for the re-start, this was no longer necessary.

Thought I'd mention it just in case (and because I mentioned removing it in my previous posts about the map, so want to be clear that the connection had been put back)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Just to speak up for myself here:
Sorry for causing this mess again.

I actually truly did forget about the specific rules while doing my term. I'm a bit stressed in RL (job + 10w old daughter) right now and obviously I do not pay enough attention to the specific rules of the game I'm playing.

This not only happened here, but also in another game which I played for 100+ turns now :(

So, sorry again for this mess, and if I happen to enlist to a game with specific rules you are in - plz drop me a line that it might not be the best idea.

I'm, truly sorry again for your wasted time on these 5 turns.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ossa, thank you for the explanation. I admit I was puzzled, to say the least, by all this.

You should probably make a habit of writing down any specific game rules on a note or something, or just stay clear of games with house rules.

Good luck on your second job as a father, it's plenty and stressful but well worth it :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Congrats on your daughter! :-)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 24 hours. The game will now host at 23:25 GMT on Friday April 15th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

A heads up like that shows the kind of spine I appreciate, it makes all the difference. So no hard feelings on my account at least. (reminder to self: remove Ossa from wanker list ;))

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Be well Ossa, best wishes to you and your family.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ossa, first of all, congratulations, I hope your child is well and everything is OK. Now, while I certainly can understand difficulties Ossa having now (I have 3 children myself and one of them is less than 6 months), I cannot understand his position of joining games for which he obviously won't have enough time. In fact, having 3-month old was one of the reason I had to skip this game, as I know that it's hard to find time for good turns in such situation.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 2 hours. The game will now host at 22:48 GMT on Saturday April 16th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Changed reminders to 12h (again). Seems they were reset during restart.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 12 hours. The game will now host at 10:49 GMT on Monday April 18th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 4 hours. The game will now host at 20:04 GMT on Wednesday April 20th.
Player's request.
Also, one of the players asked if it's possible to change hosting schedule to 26 h to prevent hosting time creep. If noone objects during next 24h, I'm going to do it.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Ouch. Well, I'm first to bow out. I liked the previous start better :(.

It's one of the hazards of taking a dormant God as a nation like Aby. Sometimes someone punches you in the face. My defensive play was not perfect but I don't think it would have made any difference. Perhaps a more thorough AAR will follow the game.

You are all still doomed.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Submit Pretenders)
 

Heh, maybe one of these days I'll actually organise a game in which you get the opportunity to play a significant part. :)

Thanks for playing Dr.P

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

24h added.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

One brief comment for future - you really can't restart a game like this around turn 7, because, from the previous game's expansion graphs, you know who is pursuing what strategy, at least to some extent!

In my case, I seriously doubt it made any difference, it was purely bad luck on my part - the plan of him-what-killed-me was clear, he was going to kill whoever was next to him, regardless of who they were. So I highly doubt it made any difference here - but in a more borderline situation, it might've.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

24h added.
DrP, I'm not sure which course is better - switching to AI on turn 7 or restarting. Both create problems.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 3 hours. The game will now host at 00:11 GMT on Friday April 29th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

One of the players asked about switching to 48h. If there are no strong objections, I'll do it tomoroow.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Heh, good timing. I came home today with the idea to make a post that - since this is supposed to be a game with a relaxed pace - anyone starting to feel the need for longer turns should feel free to PM our esteemed admin about it. :)

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

The hosting interval for ANDalusian_Sun has now been changed to 48 hours, and the deadline for the next hosting has been automatically postponed by 24 hours.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Atlantis player haven't submitted the turn so I added 2x24 h delays and trying to contact him, I'm going to wait some more time for the answer.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 24 hours. The game will now host at 19:38 GMT on Saturday May 14th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

What's going on?

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Atlantis player disappeared again. Last time the problem was described as "Internet blackout"; now after a turn or two it seems to happen again. I'm not sure what to do in this situation (as the player didn't express the desire of finding a sub after previous case) so I'm just waiting for him to reappear and explain the situation. If it doesn't happen soon I'll start looking for the sub. If you have better ideas please PM me.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

I'm breaking radio silence since I think private emails to Dimaz won't cut it.

I'm truly concerned for the fate of this game. I think what's happening here is unacceptable, the whole game is held hostage by Atlantis player. This is not the first, nor 2nd, pause in this game due to this player but it's certainly the most annoying.
You know what, if he had a good reason and Dimaz were to tell us: "guys, a player just had yyy happen to him so needs a week's extension" I'd have understood and accepted, but it looks to me like he couldn't care less that the game is stuck and we are all kept waiting.

Anyway, something has to be done, like take a few days to search 4 a sub starting right now, else turn him AI. It's bad, but IMHO better than forfeit the game.
If he re-appears I hope he'll be more considerate in the future.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

OK, I'm setting a deadline for returning of original player at 19.05, if anyone knows somebody who may wish to sub you can PM me now, after the deadline I'll open the sub thread if nobody appear before that and the game will continue with normal schedule on 21.05 with either original player, sub or AI. If original player reappear before the deadline I'll ask him to find a sub that can help during future "Internet blackouts" if they happen. Please don't post anymore in the thread.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Looks like I forgot to add another delay after all. That's how life corrects even our best plans. I still don't have any news from Atlantis, so the plan remains.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Control over Atlantis is switched to a new player. I added 24h for him and will add more if he asks.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 24 hours. The game will now host at 22:59 GMT on Wednesday May 25th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Hosting postponed for ANDalusian_Sun by 13 hours. The game will now host at 11:59 GMT on Thursday May 26th.
Player's request.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

One of the players asked me to change hosting interval to 75h as he will probably have bad Internet access during following month. If there are no strong objections I'll do it tomorrow.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

Another player objects to 75h because more players may lose interest in the game this way. I have to ask you, please PM me your opinion on the subject. I will decide tomorrow what to do.

Re: ANDalusian Sun: Anonymous LA Game for experienced players. (Started)
 

The majority of players agreed that it's better to stay with current schedule and to monitor turn submission closely to prevent accidental stales. So, the question is closed for now.