Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Trade secrets and all that :p

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Sure, I can trade secrets! Thuderstrike communion <-> vast tribal chaff

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

EDIT: forget that- i see the issue has been already addressed on the previous page



Since this is supposed to be a learning experience, it would be nice if Marrignon and Machaka players discussed their pretender build, strategy, and all that...

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Sure, I can write AAR. After the action of course - not a turn before.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

ZOMG.
It seems like China is overpopulated...

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

T'ien Ch'i is a nation of plenitude. However abundant our living, at least our dead have the decency to stay buried.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I'm hoping my scouts reports aren't accurate. Those are two really really big armies in my screen...

That's what happen when you use ethereal undead as scouts. They are capable to take down castles, but they suck at reporting :/

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I'm okay with Anaconda subbing if he is. Just keep me in the loop. Also, if we ended up changing the host schedule, It'll be 7 day instead of 6, since my return and leave again times are pretty unknown.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Like pointed out, I cant sub. And my own game aint done either.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Oh, sorry. Didn't see that.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

:(
I guess we are bound to 7 days "quick"hosts then :P

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Hey Morla, can you change the host interval?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Done

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Just sent my turn in. I'm not expecting doing much today and tomorrow, so hopefully we can get a few turns cranked out before I'm back in the field again. Thanks for your patience.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

It seems Llamaserver is K.O. :/
Have all turns received but haven't sent the new one

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

There we go.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

So I have given my final blow to evil Pythium and will become computer controlled, I'll write my Short History of Machaka Time in near future.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

AAR

I played Machaka completely wrong from the turn one. Instead of researcher I relyed on SC pretender and she was designed horribly. Because of that, she died. Then, I didnt concentrate on massing spider riders out of the assembly line, but militia, archers and hoplites. That was my second mistake and the worst of the (4 or so) major mistakes. Before turn 10 I got attacked by Phita, and his small hydra parade made my PD **** their pants (if they got those, I dunno).

I achieved a small victory and was able to stop his parade with hunter spiders from Foul Sacrifice. Even then I didnt realize I should start massing spider riders, but instead tried to muster underwater raiding forces. Underwater raiding was kinda successfull but given my current situation by far sub-optimal decision.

While I was confused and didnt really do anything smart, Phita got their thunderstrike communion ready and used it to bring down my oversized chaff PDs. Meanwhile I was finally trying to prepare vine men and wine ogres in order to counter the poison threat, but even those by far too late and they never saw serious action no matter some were ready to take up arms. Those, even if fielded, were ofcourse too late because Hydras werent anymore the threat but the lightning communion, which I couldnt figure out how to counter at all in the end.

My single most successfull move was to hire a assassin and equip him. He, under my service, took out two theurgs and one indie commander so hiring him was very cost effective. It could have have been a smart move to equip even two or three more, because if I could have been able to take out more theurgs Phita's thunderstrike communion would have failed bad and I would have bought mi self more time. He actually lost quite a few of his slaves because of exhaustion anyways - I can only imagine what the outcome of the last battle would have been if he just would have had couple of them slaves less than he did.

And BTW, the assassin is still out there. He left my service when the kingdom collapsed and most likely he will look opportunities to avenge the fate of his former masters... we got pretty close I have to admit.



Mistakes made in nutshell:

- wrong kind of pretender
- lion tribe shamans
- wrong kind of troops
- not planning ahead, and unable to adapt when the need arise.


Lesson learned:

- science pretender
- income scales
- massed spider riders, no matter if facing poison or not
- dont waste your money on lion tribe shamans
- waste your money on assassins instead, and equip them with boots giving more APs.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Any chance you'll share more about your pretender?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

OH yeah, and from the Pythium point of view, we thought we were going to get crushed several times and tried to sue for peace but where unable to get one- even when we destroyed their main army. Fear and terror were working really good against the hydras and i had no real counter for that so i tried to sue for peace. I thought i was going to get overrun (and would have been) but Machaka stopped their push.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Yes, I admit, one of the major mistakes might have been that I was being way tooooo carefull at the early stages of the war.

Oh god, my pretender I cant remember the bless but she was mid-bless snake lady, queen of serpents or something. Bless was attack, def, reg and reinvigoration if I recall correctly?

I was expeting to be able to spam hunter spiders but I made mistake in massing lion tribe shamans when I should have saved for fort to hire sorceress' and make them cast Foul Sacrifice.

However, I dont think fear and terror and dread made the difference?

I though you scripted retreat in order to drag my chaff into the poison cloud? Its breaking news to me if my combat spells caused the reatreat? What happened, thou, was that a punch of hunter spiders pinned escaping hydras down with web and finished them off. But because I was overly cautious, the fruits of the victory were short lived.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

i thought it was your terror spam.

this is my first game in over 18 months or so so i am bound to get lots of stuff wrong.

i was really really worried you would attack before evocation 4 was done.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

It was most likely terror späm if you didnt script retreat!

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I'll be in town for a few more hours before we get back on the road again, so if the turn hosts in the next hour or two I'll be able to do one more. If not, it'll be Friday.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I'm quite busy to write one, but I'm missing some AAR :/

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Alright, hopefully this will be the last week of 7 day host. I'm gonna be here til Monday morning, so let's get some turns done in the mean time.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

It's beeing an interesting war :)

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Yeah, the fact that Vestals are stealthy never crossed my mind, even though I've been seeing battle reports with them for a while now. That was an unpleasant surprise.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Congrats to Shatner.
Very nice reverse communion with gifts from heaven spam. I was happy to be only a spectator and no participant of that battle. A nightmare to be target of that meteor shower. I guess the once mighty ermorian empire has some dire time ahead.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Crossing my fingers, but I think that's the last of those damn vestals. Got your prophet too, so this day was a good one.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Many thanks for the kind words, but they are deserved of both combatants. Ermor has been a tenacious, resourceful and skilled opponent. Had we challenged them alone, we would have lost and lost swiftly. T'ien Ch'i has payed dearly from the conflict and every soldier and priest will say that Ermor is a blight that, left unchecked, would have consumed all. However, every soldier and priest will say that there has been no worthier a foe than Ermor. The fact that it took a 19 mage communion calling down no less than 150 meteors to ruin their army is proof of their terrifying strength and resolve. Cheers to a worthy opponent!

Now, please, please, please stay dead.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

It has been a damn interesting war!
Facing two oponents is allways a nightmare (twice as much capital only units, twice as much orders, twice the reserach...), but facing both Tien Chi and Jotun proves to be a complete challenge. Not only they got the shock and awe of surprise attack, but they have absolutelly different threats that need absolutelly different answers:
Jotun has a full decked out SC God, backed up with spare, powerful, high hit points strong units. Tien Chi on the other hand, has huge amounts of standard troops (thanks to his soldier poping god), backed up by large amounts of low level mages that comunion. It's quite the opposite angle.

Both threats are dangerous, but facing both threats at the same time, is too much: whatever counter you research to face the SC is completelly useless against masses of archers, troops and mages. Whatever you research or recruit to face Tien Chi combination, is just a joke against Jotun high HP, high Threat units.

However, despise facing utter defeat, I'm quite happy about most my design choices. I'm planning to write a guide about Ermor, I think my build worked smooth. My diplomacy was not that good, though :P.

I'll keep doing turns just to avoid stalling everybody, but my nation is pretty much doomed. I'll be eated by both Tien Chi and Jotun in no time. But had a blast in this war, very good one :)

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I am very much looking forward to the AAR.

Now, what is Man and Ulm up to?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

That was indeed a good war, worthy of song and tales for years to come! I've also learned a lot on Pretender design from my early weaknesses in the war, as well as what Jotun needs early on.

I'm also pretty curious about Ulm and Man, seems like they've been pretty quiet.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I have seen their god, and I wouldn't call him a SC.
I think that was the problem.
You started out very strong, and I was happy someone tried to reign you in.
But I missed the point where you just got to much into the disadvantage.
Had you asked for help, I would have probably provided it to stop the giants from getting as strong as they are now. And you probably should have had an ally from the start. Thats something to learn: Don't underestimate diplomacy, talk to your neighbors.
I am happy you had fun with this game. Makes my decisions easier :-)


The nation of Man takes all that has been said here as an unconditional surrender of the ermorian empire and regards that empire as not existing anymore. Man troops will start seizing ermorian provinces on the central island immediately. Of those provinces we claim the three provinces between the Glimmering Fields and the Midge Fens as well as those two provinces as part of our realm. All other provinces may be subject to negotiations, if other nations do wish so.
We want to emphasize to T'ien Chi that this is only valid for ermorian provinces on the island. We have no interest in provinces east of the southern river.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

YOU WILL DO NO SUCH THING.

As King Harald's head lawyer, Hrimmner, I have to file a cease and desist against Morgan La Fey and her minions against claiming any of Ermor's provinces, invoking the ancient Rite of Conquest. The law states that no non-participant in a conflict may lay claim to any portion of the spoils until after the conflict has ended and the land divided between the victors. Note that one is only considered a participant if he declares war before an admission of defeat.

Just because the ancient rites were created long before your people does not excuse ignorance of the customs.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Ulm never got that memo...


(speaking of which- you (Ulm) still owe me (Pythium) a staff- its overdue now and the deal was published here in thread which is supposed to make it official... and binding...)

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

YOU MISUNDERSTAND. THIS IS OUR NORMAL SPEAKING VOICE. IN ANY CASE, IF YOU FIRST RENOUNCE ANY CLAIMS ON ERMOR'S LAND, WE CAN DISCUSS A TRADE OF SOME KIND.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Meanwhile in the dephs of the Forges of Ulm, Aresha after an unfortunate explosion in the lab, was very busy forging the Staff of Elemental Mastery.

We the peaceful nation of Ulm request two lands from Jotun that belongs to Ermor: Pack Woods(81) and The Woodlands(80).

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Thanks Aresha!

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Oh, since you asked so nicely, hit me up in PMs and we can discuss a trade.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Well, I made SEVERAL posts in this threads where I explicitly asked for any help, saying I would pay, bribe, or ally with anyone willing to attack either Tien Chi or Jotun. The problem was that the two nations that had borders with them where not willing to do so (I asked them repeatidely), and the rest of the nations (like Man) where very far away, and too interested in growing while watching the decline of Ermor, which is a very legitimate (and clever) decission btw. It's not that I didn't ask for help. I did, several times. But people was not willing to help the guy that was leading in provinces, everybody would preffer to wait to see him "peeled off" a bit. The problem is, once an empire crumbles, it does so very fast. As a rule of thumb, it's probably too late for help when all the castles are being sieged

I haven't surrendered. I just recognize that, with all my castles being sieged, there's nothign I can do. Which is pretty obvious. I can, and will, however, play. I still have several mages in my castles, that can also do some nasty tricks. Tien Chi and Jotun HAVE to take them out, and I'm not going to go AI. They'll have to kill me, and they will suffer cassualties in the process. Maybe, if they fumble the ball, I can wipe one of the armies, who know.

What I can't do, is recruit. So the only thing I can do with my money, is raise PD. Just want everybody to know... :)

It is. Frost aura 21-29, reinvigoration, quickness, firebrand, Vineshield, Fear +5, Awe, Prot around 18-26+ (Depending weather, has strong cold power), Def around 30, luck, Regeneration, high HP (110-170, depending Dominion), that is a SC. Sure, he is relatively weak in one aspect (Magic Resist), and paralize would had take him out. But that was my point: as I had to research to paralyze, and doing such, my research was pointless against Tien Chi, who needed battlefield evocations and troop-enhancing spells like Body Ethereal. I couldn't face both threats easily.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I briefly tried the double-blessed vestals last night and i was able to field a functional expansion party every single turn. It was actually really fun.

When you are done please post your pretender design and scales okay? (or do it in your play guide you were referring to)

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I have never seen an explicit ask for help, perhaps didn't look carefully enough. Even being far away I could have probably done something, at least against T'ien Chi.

I don't recall the son of Niefel exactly, but I know that I felt the urge to cloud trapeze some mages in and blast him away with lightning bolts. That was when I figured I hadn't researched cloud trapeze yet.
He really needs some resistances.
But then SC status depends somewhat on the opposition he faces. So probably you are right, he was a SC under the circumstances.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

You need resistances depending what are you facing. If you attack Abyssia, Cold Resist is not really that helpful. He is facing Ermor, which has no access to Air-Spamming mages, so he does not really need 100% lightning resist :P

He has 100% cold resistance and 50% fire resistance, which makes him inmune or heavily resistant against fire-brands and frost-brands, and he can kill like six zillions of regular troops and thugs. Chill aura 29 means he almost instantly freeze any regular troops attacking him, and he has encumbrance 2 with reinvigoration 4, which means he can safelly use quickness, to clean 2 full squares of skelly spam per turn. With Defense 30, awe, fear 5, luck and a vineyard shield, he is not easy to take down with other heavy hitters either.

He was smart and moved away from my capitol, so my map1 move grand thaumaturges couldn't chase him easily either. Sure, there are ways to kill him (there are ways to kill every single SC in the game, nothing in this game is bulletproof), but he is not easy to take down. Specially, earlier in the game, when the research wasn't that deep.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I looked at the battle again, and yes, fear, awe luck and the vineshield mean he is not hit often. The chill however seems not to be so effective.
And your undeads ignore fear and awe.
But you are right, throw in a Ring of tamed Lightning, and I wouldn't like to meet the guy (though i have ideas for the case).

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

If you mean this battle (this last turn), sure, it wasn't effective, becouse he was killing everything fast, and thus the chill was not stacking.

However, when he get surrounded, it *does* work greatly.

All undeads are not inmune to cold and awe. To be specific, *Vestals* arent :(. Sure, skeletons can go through awe and cold. But they have like no chances to kill a guy with Def 30 and luck (that's an average of TWENTY attacks needed to give his def to 10, which is the skellies attack level), specially if he has prot 18-26 (skellies arent extremelly strong), kills 6 skellies per turn, and have 117-180 hp -depending on dominion- and regenerates.

To kill him, I need mages. I can kill him 100% sure, have done the testing in single player agains exactly that configuration (will tell how, later. I still can resist like El Alamo :P), given the chance to fight with my grand taumaturges. But he is smart, he has no need to bring him to my capitol (or near around it).

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I have backup gear for him for specific resistances, don't you worry. The big things I need for him right now are a starshine skullcap (general MR) and Rainbow Armor. I just haven't had a chance to bring him to a lab until recently, and I wanted to get stuff locked down first.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Not all the provinces of Ermor are going to Jotunheim, including those on the island. T'ien Ch'i has bled as much as anyone in this conflict (more since most of Ermor's troops don't bleed) and it is from that blood that our claim is writ. We have iron-clad contracts with Jotunheim which spell out what spoils will be ours. The chaos of war does not always allow for a clean division of an enemy nation while that enemy is fighting back; Jotunheim is merely securing those provinces for us while our forces are otherwise engaged. And while a contract in Dominions 3 is only so many words, we have secured considerable collateral from our large allies to ensure their fidelity to the agreement. The masters of T'ien Ch'i are no fools.

Rest assured you western powers that Jotunheim will not be getting any more territory than what T'ien Ch'i has agreed to and that giants go splat under meteors just as well as skeletons... even really big SC god-giants.

However, let us come forward and try to quell this hawkish rhetoric. Ermor was a worthy foe and they continue to fight as such. This war has been glorious but now it is drawing to a close. T'ien Ch'i has no desire to celebrate the end of one war with the start of another. Once Ermor has been put to the final death, we plan to live peacefully with those who would have peace. Already we are ramping up our powers of construction and once they reach fruition we would gladly trade the products of our forges with others. We are skilled in all magics save for blood and so we can produce a great many wonders.

The east has known war for many, many turns now. T'ien Ch'i and, I'm sure, Jotunheim are only seeking to a return to peace. A year ago the looming specter of Ermor was seen from every corner of the world. Had Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i not intervened, had we not fought with all the strength and guile we could muster, then Man would have lost sons to more than just Marignon, and Ulm to Marchaka. Had we not intervened, there would be no talks about who gets what pieces of the island, as the island would be the provenance of the dead that walk. We fought the war that all the living would have been forced to fight sooner or later. For this we don't ask for gratitude, nor praise nor tribute... only peace. I'm sure the kind mothers, sweet daughters and wise crones of Avalon can see the value in our words.

- T'ien Ch'i