Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

That would certainly be ... interesting. I am not sure if this is the case or not - I would guess it depends on the Dom3 algorithm for placing capitals and how close the capitals can be to each other.

All I did with this map was to run a filter over the top to set any land province with less than four land neighbors to be a no-start area, and the same for sea provinces with sea neighbors.

Fingers crossed it works out OK!

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Yes, we do.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

The oreiads only have like 10hp, that's why they stay thug level because there are a lot of spells that do non elemental AN damage (especially in blood) that just outright murder them.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Hm.

That is a problem, yes.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Hate to be a doomsayer, but I have a bad feeling. I can't say for everyone, but I already neighbor a capitol. It's 2 provinces away (unless Agartha managed to build a fort-temple in 5 turns). Yomi neighbors mine, almost from two sides actually. That's a useful little sea-lane backdoor I must say. Yomi conquered those Vines indies thanks to an awake pretender. Hate to be QQ'ing, but it doesn't take a genius to divine that Yomi has a considerable chance to one shot my capitol right this turn. The same thing propably applies for Agartha. Quickest game ever? Well, of course the sieging will take ages, but still it itches me the wrong way.
I cannot help but feel that this map isn't particularly tailored for my pretender build :(
I understand Yomi employed an effective rush strategy, but I doubt the most pro player could ever do better in my position, at least from my experience you don't conquer dark vine indies with usual starting armies. I wonder where is Yomi capitol, if I managed to conquer that particular province somehow, would the situaton be reversed?

EDIT: I still feel bad about myself here, but I hope you understand that a guy who thought 3 provinces are too close is stabbed in the back once he discovers the gaps are 2 provinces here :D That's insane...if this applies for the whole map, then I can say, if you picked the "right" direction you could just carved yourself a quick line to early capitol siege.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

I agree that things are pretty tight here- Province 50 touches my capital, Pangea's and Nefilheilm's, though that's less of an issue than Aby and Yomi, since 50 is a sea province.

If people think that they wont be happy on this map, I wouldn't mind starting over with a different one. After all, the point is to have fun. Does anyone other than Lung Drago have a problem with the map?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

I don't mind either way.

However with the grand total of 4 provinces under my control, I will be fighting 3 other nations to not only expand this number but to actually hold onto them as well.

Had I realized the style of this game, an awake SC pretender would have been the go.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

I can't help but suspect that a restart would probably kill the game, but if a majority want it - power to the people, I guess?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Uh.

My capital is 2 sea provinces and one two three FOUR land provinces away from abysia's cap. And that's via a /cave/.

If someone is sited in the cap city of the empire (altdorf) then i'm a somewhat less comfortable 2 provs away from them but that's within tolerances.

As for my strat.. it's by no means a rush strat. It is an expansion strat, but a ****ing celestial general is not going to be rushing anyone's capital naked, I don't care who they are. ****ing MARKATA could kill this guy, his strength is his freespawn troops that let him just keep on rollin'. And if you think 18 TC spear and tower shield infantry can take the ~50 aby inf and heavy inf (+ PD) my scouting report says your cap has, well. If I won that battle I would probably convert to [insert religion of choice here] due to irrational universe.

This map has big sea provinces, but so do many other maps, it's because sea provinces are mapmove1 and it's nice to give a map ocean without overpowering water nations. Even then all the amphib nations (LA Atlantis and uh... jomon?) get some minor boost out of that but who even cares those are some of the weaker nations in the game.

Awake SC pretenders are so nerfed in CBM anyway that I don't think any pretender rush strats would work against anything other than maybe a monkey nation with sloth. Even then you can usually research something to scare them off. Even earth meld works if you spam it.

The fundamental reality of playing with 15 provinces per player is that sometimes your cap is going to be two squares away from another cap. That's all the game ever checks for, and no-one has ever found a way to solve it other than fixed starts.

Lung Drago, what you SHOULD be worrying about is that everyone got sardined into one section of the map and someone else is carving up indie provinces like no tomorrow but even then that means everyone who neighbours them should /gang up/ on them because their province growth chart will reveal that they're snaking all the lands.

If caps are further apart the only thing you're really defended from is a turn 4 pretender rush. Because if someone finds you or your lands on turn 8, and they're a rush build, they're going to rush you. And your thau 2 research is not going to save you. Or rather you'll still end up locked in your cap with whatever you've been able to build. All the best rush builds are great at expanding too. If they have to cut through 2 provinces of yours to reach your cap, they don't care. You're going to need your whole army to fight them anyway.

And considering it's turn 6 and no-one has complained of a carrion dragon landing on their cap, i'm pretty sure that the dreaded small map turn 4 rush has not materialized.

I was really enjoying this game and map so far. I have an interesting position where i'm isolated on an isthmus with enemy candles (yours and someone elses) on my two possible routes out so I need to get as much as I can quickly and look into maybe trying to reach the islands or something.

If there's a restart I won't be playing again.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

That sucks, holey, but it's also kind of an opportunity.

Make diplomatic ties with one neighbour and gang up on the other.

It's unfortunate that we're not playing DE (Dominions Enhanced) because i'm playing as nief in that right now and I had to fight three people at once (Kailasa, Ermor, and Aby) and I won thanks to Jotun troops being size 3 instead of 4 (2 per square) and having better atk and def stats (means that the huskarls are really mean melee infantry in DE instead of worthless jokes). I don't know what your build is like, but i've played CBM nief with some success with friends using a E/n bless and trashed several AI nations in quick succession in the earlygame thanks to the huge Chill aura (that sadly got nerfed in DE.. my poor niefels) a jarl and 4 niefels make around themselves. Even without a bless if you used jotuns with shields to tank for a back line of niefel giants you could wear down your enemy. Gygjas make surprisingly good battlemages, too, Tangle Vines holds enemies in place for jotuns to give the coup de grace, Dust to Dust is great against PoDs etc, and they can communion up if truly necessary to cast terror or wither bones (this is all earlygame). Later you get fun stuff like enslave mind and shadow blast. Jarls have base 3 water and Skratti can have 3 as well, this means they can fire off 3 lesser water elementals in a siege or something which could be useful.

Boulder throwers are equally good in CBM and DE - if you place your troops right, you can kill all your enemies with boulders and not even have to worry about the fact that your huskarls apparently don't know which end of a sword to hold.

There's a LP over at somethingawful where a good player (TheDemon) holds off a concerted rush attack from three other players while only having 5 provinces for about 12 turns (and longer but it's not written up). He kills huge amounts of enemies and enemy mages while losing basically nothing of his own. That's seriously doable in dom3. You just have to stretch yourself to have the battlemagic and the troops available so you fight battles where you don't get hurt and your enemies do.

In your position people are actually more likely to ally with you too, because because you're smaller than them and likely weaker you don't pose a threat of backstab as much as if they ally with someone of equal strength - if they get half of a nation you collaborate on murdering, and so do you, you're still smaller so they can worry about other neighbours and not so much about you.

EDIT: And on the way to one of your key spells (Grip of Winter) in enchantment there is a great spell called raise dead. Guess what else your jarls and gygjas can cast in battles! They're also immune to cold so you can put a couple niefel giants in there and watch your enemy choke to fatigue-death on an unending tide of undead and cold auras.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

I am mate. I have offers of NAPs out there.

I am not saying my position is unique in this game, I am sure, and well I have already read that others are in a similar predicament. My scout also confirms others are clashing very early.

Its kind of unexpected, that's what I am really saying, as to complaining...lol. I am enjoying the game, so don't get wrong on that point. My point was, I'll go with the flow, but very happy to see what kind of empire I can carve out here, or how long till I am consigned to the history pages.

None the less, it does provide a unusual opportunity to fight early to stay alive.

Of course the score boards already show who has an easy run and is gobbling up the free territories. Just have to hope their neighbours are sensible enough put a stop to that ASAP.

I can assure you there isn't much room for expansion down my way, so if do come visiting better bring your war gear!

Appreciate the advice thx Rejakor.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Well as far as I can tell no-one has said anything about fighting yet. You're sandwiched in between pangaea and someone else? Or just r'lyeh is near you and pangaea is blocking off your further expansion?

I'm certainly not fighting Aby, or at least I haven't received a turn with battles. I haven't signed a NAP, because I usually prefer not to as I have to worry about backstabs anyway, and prefer more specific turn limited agreements with more specific goals (joint wars, trades, territory exchanges).

I've encountered Atlantis in the sea with my fishman mercs, but I just found their border with an empty province, no fighting of any kind.

I can't see any concurrent dips on the score graph to indicate anyone has been fighting, unless arco bumped heads with someone's flying pretender turn 1.

I'm actually top of the province score graphs (largely thanks to my aggressive merc-buying policy and awake expansion god (which I don't care if anyone knows is a celestial general)) and i'm /very/ firmly locked in. I'll get a 9 prov expansion, and only one of those is a farmland with more than half of the rest being mountains and swamps.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Just to clarify my previous post, Im not actually advocating for a reset, just saying that I wouldn't mind if others wanted. It sounds like comparatively, Im very lucky, since I still have some indie islands left in my part of the sea.

As to Nefil, don't feel too threatened by me (R'lyeh)- Im not ready for a land campaign yet, and wont be for some time. That said, don't get too comfortable, since I wont sign NAP's with land nations until I have land provinces to threaten ;).

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

What is Dominions Enhanced and where can I find a link to the mod?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

My 2 cents. I'm fine either way. I'll enjoy the game as-is or jump in if we restart. Just as an FYI, I must be one of those that doesn't have too many neighbors. I haven't seen anyone else yet. On the flip side don't be too jealous. My part of the world is very narrow so my expansion is still slow.

Cheersssssssss from the Lizardssssssssssssss

We want peace with all unless we catch you wearing snakeskin boots!

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

jimbo -

DE - https://sites.google.com/site/dominionsenhancedmod/home

Changelog - http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=4dgCgj6M

Only works with MA and EA atm, most nations have some changes.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

Well, I won't be forcing a restart since it would agitate me too, I'll try to look at the situation as a challenge. It's clear now though that I'll have far larger problems early game than anticipated, though. I might need to figure out something else as a backup plan since I don't feel like blindly following my original one now.
I think this game will end rather quickly since as I understand so far most of us don't get much breathing space :) What's most important for me though is that everyone's start positions seem comparable and I wasn't downright smacked in the face by the Dom3 algorithm.
As I recall my early tests of Glory of the Gods was exactly that. A lot of the starts were actually fine, but there was always an area somewhere where capitols were cramped up together. That's simply unfair ;)
Oh, the quirks of random starts. They need to be identical, or else the fairness can be questioned.
EDIT: Of course if we are trying to fit into one area while someone has vast lands to conquer as you say, it's unfair, but it's also containable by smart cooperation of other neighbors, as this is the reversed situation of what I was afraid of happened to me. If you're a small nation, you generally have harder time keeping yourself alive with the conquest-thirsty neighbors :P

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Well I started on a wastleland surrounded by 3 wastelands and a mountain >.<. Most land within 2 is rubbish and I'm bumping into neighbours.

Still, I'll pootle along and see how it goes.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Open
 

But Swedish giants can't lose! Except against Danishmen, but that's besides the point! You don't border them do you? If so, please don't try and take Skane again. It wasn't fun being in the middle like that. :(


:p

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Yeah, that was a terrible last turn for me.

My pretender dies, I lose one expansion army, my elephant mercenaries get cut to pieces by troglodytes and only one commander makes it out alive. Eurgh.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I'm so sorry! :(

I'm sure we can hunt some whales together to make you feel better.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Boy and I thought I have had some rough early turns.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Ouch. That is very unfortunate indeed. Didn't your pretender just die in Madness Of Kings also? Maybe you have a disease that kills pretenders? If so, please don't breath on mine, I am kind of fond of him ....

That is .... nasty. Although I think wastelands tend to have good magic sites? If so, assuming you survive to the mid game, the position could start to come good.

Speaking as one of your neighbors, I wish you nothing but love, happy bunnies and tummy rubs. Hopefully we can live in peace, and find some other poor b*stard to murderinate instead.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

In MadnessKings my pretender died of an astral 1 mage casting paralyze

So yeah i'm pretty sure i'm cursed

EDIT: to put this into perspective, it was an elemental immune MR 22 prot 30 before buffs gorgon with twelve attacks and 80 hp (inside friendly dominion).

****ing cursed.

EDIT EDIT: To put this even more into perspective, this was end of year 2. So it was a full gear SC with petrification end of year 2. Which is terrifying. And I got it killed.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Yeah, paralyze really is an SC killer. Oh well, at least you aren't locked in a major war to the death with a neighbor who is convinced that you backstabbed them. Oh, wait ....

Yep, you are cursed! :-)

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Just to add my two cents: this board does feel very crowded. I'd love to know where all the open provinces are. Dropping close to other capitals isn't that big of an issue so long as you also have some room to expand elsewhere. But it seems as if everyone is getting cut off, implying that someone else has way too much room.

This is one thing that makes wraparound maps so nice -- any big empty areas are easily reachable by several players, so nobody can monopolize them.

Anyway, let's play it out for now, and see where we are in a little bit. If we get into steamroller territory we can re-decide then.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I don't think I like this map either. It doesn't help that this has probably been the most awful start for me...

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I didn't realise that Atlantis was taking it in the shorts too. What's going on down in the fishy deeps of the world?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I guess it's not a spoiler since you can tell from the score graphs, but I guess all I can safely say is that I have gotten more than my share of unlucky events (including a shark attack second turn that wiped out my income)... and that's not even the worst of my troubles.

This game is nothing but an exercise in frustration and I'd really rather be doing pretty much anything else. It doesn't help that I've started a new job and playing a completely-not-fun game out of sheer duty is hardly a priority. Going AI though would just hand all the water provinces to R'lyeh on a silver platter and be unfair to everyone else. :(

It's interesting though that all of my first three games suck. I've had horrible starts in this one and ALearningExperience that pretty much doom me, and through no fault of my own. My start in WhatCouldGoWrong was my "best", in a sense that the worst random **** that happened to me was having the bad luck of building my first castle on a disease-causing site and finding nothing of use anywhere else while other nations somehow get vastly improved gem income and who knows what else -- and there I'm getting dogpiled due to player shenanigans.

Bleh.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Bad starts are a given in every game. Had it happen to me several times.

My expansion is also less than ideal, but eh.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I've done this two games in a row now. It is really very, very, very annoying! (The first castle in one game, the second in the next.) So yeah, I totally share your pain.

If you are interested, I am going to start a game in the next week or two with fixed starts to give everyone a decent starting goal. And with this game, if you really are hating it that bad you can post for a sub - although looking at the graphs, I think your position is likely to be quite salvegable. And if all else fails, just take solace in not being Arco! :-)

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Heh, I don't know about you guys, but reading all those tragic stories in this game actually makes it fun :D Most of us are getting screwed, which makes it pretty much even. Lol.

Oh, and sea lanes are really insane. It's pretty standard to get a "Hello neighbour!" PM from someone I didn't even know I neighbor, until I followed that looong rope to a distant Nowhere-island on the other side of the sea :doh: It's kinda silly, too. You could call England and France neighbors, but this is calling USA and Russia as ones. Lol.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Turn on Map filters -> Neighbours. Shows every connection of selected province.

----------

I also have a confession of sorts. I spent ages redrawing the borders on this map a while ago. I didn't want to influence the map choice and I wanted to test it in game so I've kept schtum till now.

It has antialased and more accurate borders and two versions with varying brightness. Connections between caves are drawn in (some surprises there too no doubt):

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//showthread.php?t=47976

IMPORTANT: the images are fully interchangeable but don't swap the map script (as jimbo customised ours). Just put one of the new images in place of the old one and reload dom3 (must quit to desktop) to try the other map pic. Everything will be the same but the background.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I agree with Lung Drago that the overcrowding problem is starting to sound rather fun, and I think that the potentially for battles in every other province each turn sounds crazy and cool!

But again, I can't actually identify with any of that, since Im safe underwater, and high on the province graph, and still have some indies. :smirk:

I am thinking that a wraparound map would have solved some of our problems.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

The prospect of war frightens us! Can't we all get along and listen to death metal together like civilized beings? :(

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Hey I am an old fart, and I lean a bit towards "The Mammas and the Pappas".
Can't we all enjoy listening to them?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

That is brilliant! Many thanks :-)

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

What, and you call yourself Swedish? You giants aren't Swedish. You need to listen to death metal to be Scandinavian. :mad:


{OOC: In case anyone is taking me seriously, don't. Please.}

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

"The Mammas and the Pappas" rock big time!!!!!!!

{OOC: In case anyone is taking me seriously,DO!!!!!!}.

Now where did I put that Frank Sinatra's Greatest Hits album?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

There are gonna be stales if you guys dont postpone like right now!

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Outside of being unhappy for really getting screwed by the RNG, I'm even more unhappy to see the staling chart:

http://www.llamaserver.net/doAdminAc...ion=showstales

:down:

If we can't get people to play their turns maybe we should restart with those who can. Whoever gets first to Arco's capital is, I would infer, in for a treat.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Is Acro even still playing?

Also, no. A restart this late is killer. Restarts on turn 1 are quick and painless, but by turn 10, there's no point. I'd just quit the game at that point since it took so long already to start.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Arco / Darlian seems to be submitting one turn in two at the moment, so he's staled three times in the last six turns.

Between that, the fact he hasn't really built an army, and has no provinces, I think its reasonable to assume that in effect he has quit the game. At this point, on turn 10 with provinces, turning him AI seems to be the go. If any one objects, AND can find a sub, we'll go with the alternative.

This is Sauro's first stale, but I see his provinces and army size are taking a hit so I assume there are clouds on the horizon for him. I think we need to keep an eye on the timer, and if it looks like another stale we'll pause and grab a sub.

In other news, I just found ANOTHER neighbor - my god, there are people EVERYWHERE! GAH!! CLAUSTROPHOBIA IS KICKING IN!!!

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I wouldnt worry about few stales. I was gonna stale also but manged to send the turn in some 5 minutes before it was due.

It inevidable that few players drop fast when theres so many of us and relatively complex map with still relatively small nbr of provinces per player. With good diplo even small and puny can survive, thats the name of the game. And more over, the balance of power SHOULD start to tip already. There cant be 10 equally powerfull nations in turn 50 anyways.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

And I dont have my dom3 comp open so could anyone point me whos the one with a flagpole of golden serpent head?

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

The green flag with the golden head is Marverni.

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Wow, Agartha and Abysia are crammed in together like sardines in a can. Lucky they've got friendly neighbors like Yomi to help them out ... :-)

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Why is everyone thinking i'm some kind of all powerful something or other

my god is dead

my strategy is terrible

my army is mostly bandits

I haven't actually researched a single tree to level 1 yet

i've yet to find a gem site

most of my troops are wounded or diseased

I don't have growth and i've patrolled so my cap is now 26k pop and it's only going to get worse

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

I hear Arco's cap is totally pristine, if you are looking for a new one?

BTW, what went down with your god in this game? I think you might have told me, but I've forgotten already (old age and whatnot are working against me here).

Re: Power Beyond Comprehension aka "My power is still raising!" newbie game - Running
 

Yeah, Marveni, that's me, you'll notice I have gobs of troops and not too many provinces. I'm piling up on cheap javelineers to kill indies with. If I ever wind up in a real war you'll see that army size shrink quickly :)