Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Technically NATO/USA doesn't have to have a single mole. It's not that hard to reach to certain conclusions based on the movements of forces. Still obviously there are probably at least some, or not. That's the beauty of it.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

It's sad really. Obviously not the first or last country to believe in the superiority of their own nation. It shouldn't work, but obviously it does. Such a shame.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efs4jk9ziaM


Is the Martlet (LMM) missile in use in Ukraine?

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

According to that report...... maybe. But it's not yet deployed in the UK

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://news.usni.org/2022/04/13/rus...abandoned-ship

Russian Navy Confirms Severe Damage to Black Sea Cruiser Moskva, Crew Abandoned Ship

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

It looks like Ukraine is now user of the awesome RM-70 system.
https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/st...INkSX0BV5I8nOQ
A gift from the old buddy of Russia, the Czechs.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

That link tells me nothing as I have not and will not join the twitterverse

most links to it usually give some detail but that doesn't so please fill in the blanks or find another link that can

The Verba already uses the same rockets as the RM-70 but FWIW the RM-70 has now been added anyway

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

If I see something else I will let you know.
For the time I have the news on here too
https://www.ptisidiastima.com/twenty...ed-to-ukraine/

though it is basically about the tweet. It's a defense magazine that is quite trustworthy in the business for 40 years.
Having said that obviously some tweets don't necessarily mean much on their own. Still, thanks.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Yes, I found a number of other references to it


https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1649956663

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

In any conflict, there are always going to be myths that emerge.

But for the most part, it's not old equipment being lost......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lem3enNkbV0

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

THE BEST .. tongue in cheek....comment about the attack on the Moskva in the "Russian Foreign Ministry" style

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I like this too.
Obviously it hasn't sunk yet, but still funny.

https://i.postimg.cc/KzdPkC3n/FQTpbc-NXEAUb7dr.jpg

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Good lord this will NEVER END

https://mil.in.ua/en/news/the-german...cs-to-ukraine/
The German defense industry is offering Marder IFV and PzH-2000 ACS to Ukraine

Rheinmetall, a German manufacturer of military equipment, offers Ukraine to purchase Marder infantry fighting vehicles.

BILD informs about it.

According to the journalists, the concern intends to build 35 units of equipment for the needs of the Ukrainian Armed Forces by the end of 2022.

Another German arms manufacturer, Krauss-Maffei Wegmann, is offering Ukraine an agreement to supply 100 self-propelled 155-mm PzH 2000 ACS.

Welt am Sonntag informs about this.

The offer was submitted to the German government for approval.

The first new ACS might be delivered no earlier than in 30 months. That is, the first deliveries should be expected in the second half of 2024. And the entire contract will be fulfilled in 2027.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

These photos of "Pro-Russian" troops don't look defeated. This in the battles of Mariupol.

https://www.reuters.com/news/picture...f-idUSRTS71ET3

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

All I see is barbarians.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

There is supposedly a good chance of Greece receiving 100s of Marders (among a proposal for other things like setting up a line for Leo2 in Greece, but that's another topic). I hope this offering doesn't negatively affect that.

The PZh-2000 sale is super weird though. Time will tell.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I kept hearing about a Marder sale since I was in high school. It starts to become a meme by now. :(

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

We were supposed to get them 15-20 years ago, but eventually it didn't go ahead as people in power dissed them as too old. Hilarious if you think about it since we still have M113. A bit later we were supposed to go ahead with the BMP-3, which (thankfully?) didn't go ahead either. (funnily enough the unit is available in the Greek OOB here, same as the SU-35 I think, they were added years ago when it looked like there was a good potential for them).
The irony is there is a better chance we get the Marders now than then. That's life (and stupidity).
Time will tell.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Not now...........

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Me and my big mouth! :p


I kid, I kid, thank you. I wasn't using them for years now. Though when I used to, they were VERY helpful (the BMP-3). :D

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

It is now on it's "special underwater mission"........

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61114843

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Well now Iran is sending weapons system to Russia through Caspian sea

https://www.infobae.com/en/2022/04/1...rs-to-ukraine/

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...gainst-ukraine

So what is delivered

- Bavar-373 SAM's from Iranian arsenals

- Brazilian Astros II in version manufactured locally in Iraq Sajil-60 with shorter range rockets than Brazilian version.

- except that smaller weapons AT rockets and various RPG's


In case of Cruiser "Moskva"

I worth to see reaction on "Russia 1" TV channel with English subtitles.
one of commentators said: end this "Special Operation" now we have WW3!
https://tvpworld.com/59651348/russia...moskva-sinking

In case of genocides on Ukrainians.This message was prepared to Russian solders with ancient Ukrainian Godess of Winter Mara
https://twitter.com/NotAbouThatBase/...82681219518464

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQRHXrFW...jpg&name=small

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I dont have a link but a Ukrainian war gamer I know posted this from a Russian source.


Moscow's official reaction to the loss of the Moskva has surfaced.

▪️The Russian Defense Ministry says the Navy's exercise included a planned reclassification of the Moskva cruiser as a submarine.

������ "In the course of re-qualification of the cruiser into a submarine, a planned submergence was carried out in accordance with the decision of the General Staff. In order to maintain negative buoyancy, the ship took an upright position. Fakes about the fire are spread by sailors who mistook the smoke from barbecue roasting on the ship for fire," Igor Konashenkov said during the briefing.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

There is something weird here, something that does not add up.... PERHAPS this is a translation issue..... BUT

SERIOUSLY ????

What century do these people think it is ??


And this, if true just made this all infinitely worse


AND

https://twitter.com/NotAbouThatBase/...82681219518464


Yeah...... it was nasty....... it's going to get worse, a lot worse

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I'm not and never will be signed up for "twitter" so these links only show one or two items before I am blocked but I did see what looked like the Moskva sinking and I managed to grab a screenshot

https://forum.shrapnelgames.com/atta...1&d=1650031085

Someone was being cheeky with photoshop

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world...sia/ar-AAWahxQ

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

As are many Swedes...

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.defense.gov/News/News-St...ed-to-ukraine/




Everyone needs to understand that this upgrade has been delayed due to what's being going on in RL and no matter where we finally draw the line and say "that's it for now" within hours something will change.

I have been unable to contact Shrapnel and that is also delaying the release but we really ( really-really ) hope to have this posted by the beginning of the last week of April which is exactly a month later than we wanted

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

...and I just found a bug so that may or may not influence everything written above.

:banghead:banghead:banghead

EDIT

ANDY SOLVED IT SO THAT'S ONE LESS ISSUE

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

.........how's that allegedly Chinese curse go......."may you live in interesting times"?

https://nationalpost.com/news/ukrain...ng-the-mothers


and that could very well be Yes on both parts and could possibly turn something already nasty into something considerably more so as if the discoveries made after the withdrawals wasn't enough

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Population which turns against a war is some times quite effective. Americans have experience with this during the cold war.

All I can think of is if someone took out Putler how many more lives would be saved.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saEpkcVi1d4&t=33s

Pink Floyd - Hey Hey Rise Up the official video for 'Hey Hey Rise Up', Pink Floyd’s new Ukraine fundraiser feat Andriy Khlyvnyuk of Boombox

I will never tire of hearing David Gilmour play the guitar


EDIT a slightly different verion
https://youtu.be/2VvwH4vqUiI

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/techn...rones-ukraine/

Published February 11, 2022

Russian drones shot down over Ukraine were full of Western parts.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

As retired Submariner with 20 yrs. experience, I feel it is my duty to point out two simple facts...
1. Dons picture of the reclassed new MOSKVA Submarine Class for one, to have the bow located in what would normally be the stern is just not a good idea, I'd be jumping off the "boat" as well!?!

That picture shows how a submarine would look like surfacing on a "low pressure blow" bow first. But the bow I guess is the stern, so they put the engine and screws in the front!?! :doh: Mr. Putin you need to send your designers to either Siberia or the Ukrainian Front!!

Second obviously the crew was rushed through Submarine School as they somehow forgot to check the box for ensuring all the hatches were secured prior to the dive IAW the Rig for Dive Bill Checklist!!! :eek: Yes we had those and more. :cool:

They failed in the basic axiom of "having ONE more surfacing then dives. The proper way as I experienced on the USS NEBRASKA SSBN-739(G) which was of my last boat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vF8JKkRo5fk

Also, they miserably failed in damage control. What every submariner trains for starting in Sub School Groton, Ct. and while on any boat you serve on there after.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ycDINNZHBw
I was 23 when I joined the Navy and went there.

If I were a Russian Submariner serving on one of the other two surviving MOSKVA Class Submarines, I'd request transfer to the Ukrainian Front, maybe better Siberia instead.

I need to go to work, have a good day.

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Pat.....it was the John Deere tractor towing it that was the most relevant bit of humour

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Hi,

How much does the Survivability value play into things?
with the M1 design philosophy, it appeared that crew survival was at the forefront for Western designs from the 80s onward thus it was assumed to a degree that partial penetrations would occur on a semi frequent basis. The blow out panels for ammo stowage make for a strong example.

FYI, i just want to say, i agree with comments that argue against snap judgements. No system stands alone and there are many variables. Its also kind of weird too....to discuss such things while the conflict in question is ongoing....with real lives on the line. We should be respectful of that too. We talk wargaming. For those involved in the conflict its irrelevant....you live or you die.

That said. I appreciate the effort put into WinSPMBT and WinSPWW2. Best wargame ever.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Survivability relates to crew survival on vehicle being killed. So the crew might make it out some more if survivabilty is higher. Not much effect in a stand alone battle or scenario, but it gains importance in a campaign, provided other battlefield effects do not kill the bailed crew of course.

The other main factor in crew bailout survivability is of course experience - green crews tend to die where experts might get some survivors.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

The chieftain with yet another good piece as a riposte to the youtube "experts" claiming the passing of the MBT (yet again);

"No the tank is not dead"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI7T650RTT8

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Yeah, there are a lot of "the tank's not dead" videos is YT lately, mainly as a response to any random Joe claiming the opposite. The main problem with people that think that the tank's dead is they dont remember/know that we actually know the alternative and it involves PBI into a frantic race to the parapet...which became even more difficult than 1916 since artillery has become faster and more accurate.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

There will be no T-14s, interesting article and that is the conclusion from the Bulgarian Military.

https://bulgarianmilitary.com/amp/20...MKNtsHsm46JHe8

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Whatever you see in the OOB's you have is now changed in the master set that IS STILL EVOLVING. The T14 and T15 may indeed never actually see the light of day ( like all the "future weapons systems" a lot of eager beavers insisted should be in the US OOB 20 years ago that all had to be pulled out after they were all cancelled one by one )

SO.The T14 and T15 now have a nominal start date of 6/124 which is GOOD ENOUGH..... anyone unhappy with that can learn to use MOBHack

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Anyone interested can go digging for info on the Kurganets 25....... I'm too busy ATM but for now it has the same 6/124 start date as all the other Russian Wunderwaffen


FOR EVERYONES INFORMATION

The T14. T15, Kurganets 25 and the Bumerang IFV have ALL had their start dates pushed into the future. Right now all have 6/124 start dates which differ considerably with what you will see in the OOB's you have

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

This is a question that has been asked many times and I will expand on what Andy wrote because I recall walking this path many, many times

Survivability in the game is NOT just about crew survival. That is only the final part.

The Survivability rating relates mainly to what happens after a penetrating hit. The higher the rating the higher the chance the vehicle will take damage rather than being destroyed and that is what those *** you may see when a hit is made but the vehicle continues to function and those *** can cause crew casualties but still the tank can function though it *may* have weapons systems damaged. I am sure if anyone has played the game enough they will have seen their tank take a hit and lose the function of it's main gun.

That is the PRIMARY function of Survivability... the secondary function is related to IF the tank is penetrated and IF it is functionally destroyed what is the chance some or all of the crew might survive.

Anyone who plays campaigns knows that's important. For anyone who only plays single battles it's far less a "concern" but the survival rating affects the vehicle first then the crew

So it's NOT just about "does the crew survive".. it's about how well the tank can cope with penetration and in the cascade of code that is initiated by that event the last calculation is how many crew survive and the higher the survival number the better the chance the tank and the crew survive

It's all explained in the game guide

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Probably it is too late to ask for something like this but...what about splitting the cost of a tank and the surviving crew in all battles*? This gives an incentive to the player that lost the vehicle but kept the crew to try to save their lives instead of using them as bullet magnets/free scouts.

*say, a 300 cost tank is knocked out but the crew survives. Then, the tank's cost is actually 150, while the crew gets 150 cost value at the same time.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

Not even if I thought it was a good idea.......There will be NO further code changes for this next release

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I have started the slow process of building both games update installers so it would take an extraordinary RL event to cause me to interrupt that...... A regiment of T14 Armatas crossing the border into Ukraine would qualify but nothing short of that.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

I'm probably in the minority on this one, but I always thought the T-14 as a BS project. It never felt real, more like a model, a plastic toy for something which doesn't exist.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

You would think you almost read my mind, I think what you referred to about the USA OOB was our shared ABRAMS NIGHTMARE (Along with a lot of legacy equipment from before Andy and Don took over the game as well., and for what's worth in hindsight for me at least, we are better for it, however I certainly wouldn't want to repeat it.

Wars are never fully included in military budgets they cover costs such as retirements and health care which ALMOST ACCOUNTS FOR AROUND 25 -30% OF OUR DEFENSE BUDGET alone and my pay to :D.
https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/fi...taryComp_0.pdf
https://crsreports.congress.gov/prod...f/IF/IF11856/1

Some people wish to complain about some NATO countries percent of GDP going to Defense spending if you look at the bottom graph and for now, understand that the U.S. has the largest economy in the world, dollar wise yes by far we spend the most.

But by GDP which is the international standard for determine the "economic power" for a country, most NATO countries aren't really that far off the mark from us by percentage.
https://www.macrotrends.net/countrie...defense-budget

So now Russia has a war, its economy has been severely reduced by sanctions which by about two weeks ago have really started to take hold with more applied since.

So going back to the bottom chart right side from 1960-2019 look at our %GDP for defense and take into account the Cold War (through 1998.), Vietnam, Iraqi & Afghanistan Wars and smaller ops that caused a "blip on the radar" such as Grenada and Panama.

And also recognize, we didn't have any sanctions on us.

So yes, I strongly concur with the "push back" on that Russian equipment they've all suffered from cost over runs (And we know there's no corruption over there.), ongoing technical difficulties etc. etc. This almost makes me to go back and find out how long ago I posted about the "BOOMERANG" that actually was cancelled at least once.

Modern warfare is more expensive now than at any time in our history (Manhattan Project aside based on today's dollars.)

Projects suffer and those projects definitely have.

And finally, because I know someone will say something, this isn't about picking on Russia and it will obviously show you haven't really read some of my stuff, which is perfectly fine, but I'll leave with just one USA project (Don don't get upset-just making a point!) the F-35A/C and finally from my favorite other two countries Turkey ALTAY & India ARGUN Mk II just for good measure.

For those that celebrate it Happy Easter!

Regards,
Pat
:capt:

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

No different really from all the wonderful toys we keep trying to get and sink billions and find out once field they are indeed garbage. Maybe we need to stop painting the other countries as ten-foot-tall giants and remember they have just as many if not more issues than we do and they might not be up there inability. Then again thinking like that is dangerous to the MIC and their lobbyist.

Also in mind, the majority of equipment will always perform differently once in the hand of the soldiers than it does on the test range where things are under full control of those conducting the testing.

Russia has its wonderful toys, if they work then we adjust, if they fail we laugh, just like they do when we (the US or the West) are the ones having the issues. As for the T-14s and others, having them and having them in quantity are two different things.

There is an old sci-fi story, about how this guy is locked in a jail cell with this other guy and he is confessing to the tribunal about how his side lost the war, long story short it was because they got rid of weapons that worked because the geniuses in MIC were always pushing new and better and amazing weapons, and when war came, well these amazing wonderful and better weapons didn't work as well as the older tried and tested system. The story ends with the guy begging to be shot or put in a labor workforce anything but being locked up with the chief MIC genius.

Re: Updates in light of Ukraine war
 

How so? I understand from an economic viewpoint that there there may be a lack of means to mass produce the vehicle. From a technical standpoint, T-14 appears on paper to be formidable while also promoting crew survivability via an evolved auto-loader mentality. (aka, now the entire turret is unmanned, saving manpower needs). [insert autoloader meme here... :). ]

The modular concept I found intriguing, esp the IFV variant though whether that is economically viable was a first counter-thought. Obviously if they can't produce enough MBT versions, thats a problem.