Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Hmm, back to topic (somewhat).

Apart for ethics how about some etiquette? Have you had bad experience with that? Well, I have.

In one game after attacking a player and mopping up his planets. I got a series of insults for several months. (while the first one or two might have still be in character, he went truly lost it and went overboard with the Last one(s))
In another game a player gives his ships offensive names which are particularly aimed at me.
I don't really care for that. Needless to say that these players go on a black list and I won't play with them anymore.

Rollo

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

So far no one has objected to ships named Awfrigit and OFU.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

How about players reading these forums and telling other players in game that a player is not to be trusted due to his/her Posts in Shrapnel Forums

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Hehe, I love insulting people. Although is anyone ever objected to it I would stop doing it to them.

I also like doing ship names as a way of sending a message. LIke naming a ship "Insecticide" when plying the Xi'Chung. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geocshmo

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">ROFLOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh, I have nothing against that and wouldn't object to that...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I also have nothing against a good in-character insult or some form a jest/banter/or whatever...

But quite frankly, when a player starts to send "F*** you [name]!" Messages by what ever means, the fun stops for me.

Rollo

[ January 16, 2003, 21:07: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That's absolutely ridiculous http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif .
I guess some people don't get the idea of roleplaying or in-character Messages. Surely Posts on this board have nothing to do with in-game diplomacy.

Another thing is sometimes players that carry grudges from one game to another. While it is perfectly understandable, they should really keep them to themselves and/or avoid them as much as possible (yeah, I know that can be hard...). But by no means can they use it as argument: "Hey, (Player A) killed me in game (X). Therefore my attack on him is a just cause."
Or even worse is 'crosstrading'. Something like: If you give me planet A in game X, I'll give you tech B in game Y...[/rant off]

Rollo

[ January 16, 2003, 21:28: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Oh yeah. That's bad. I always aim my insults at the empire, not at the player. Gotta keep it in character.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

I made some one disgusted because I had 10 mines left over from the remains of my empire. And still claimed that the game was not over because I "have units in the field" and we can still resist. (no planets or ships left but I still had 10 mines).
Nothing wrong with insults but if you need to revert to profanity... well I think one should and could do better.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Heh, if you made me scour the quadrant looking for your Last minefield I might swear at you a little myself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Geoschmo

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Though not everyone considers se4 to be a role-playing game. Whereas roleplaying can make the game more fun for some people, others may find it an unncessarry distraction - esp. if you don't have the time for it. Personally, I enjoy a moderate amount of rping, but wouldn't begrudge someone who sent OOC Messages or used Real World contexts for in-game decisions (eg, If you know Player A backstabbed Player B in game Y, I wouldn't think it necesarrily bad to inform player C about it in Game Z).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That I would consider unethical...

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

That depends on what you posted tesco samoa. If you posted something regarding the way in which you play the game that could be used fairly against you such as favored tactics or diplomacy methods it might well be fair game for use against you.

Role Play is another matter entirely and as spoon notes not everyone thinks SEIV Gold should always be role played and he provides a good example situation with real world context.

Well role played diplomatic insults can be fun in a game if good spirited and the people you are playing with get it.

What Rollo describes is disgusting. I hope I never encounter such behavior in a game. I am surprised the game owner did not kick the player in question. People play games to have fun and player conduct of such nature that is detrimental to that objective should not be tolerated.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Well I love to dish out a good insult in game. But personally I would avoid using profanity against players I do not know. In a recent PBEM game with a friend I used every foul word in the book and then when his character complained I blamed it on his universal translater. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif In PBW against players I do not know I would use something more in Sc-Fi character such as "You're sire mates with Denebian Slime Devils"

[ January 17, 2003, 02:41: Message edited by: DavidG ]

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Rollo, < snip unessasary comment > I have always used vulgarity while gaming. Sometimes tone inflection and body language did not come across. If I have ever wondered where someone was coming from I asked them. Did you mention it to them?
If someone has been offensive to you, bring it up with them. Perhaps it was un intended. Tell us, is it consistent with the balance of their post here to be deliberately obnoxious / instulting?
Edit:
Clearly there are venues where it should not be used. I apologiesto any I have offended in any game I have played. I will change my ways.

[ January 17, 2003, 01:05: Message edited by: Gryphin ]

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

i definitly side with Rollo, here.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

even though im often delibratly obnoxious.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

If you were down to 10 mines, you were out of it. The ability to resist is not enough to stay in a game, you must also have the ability to recover from a good wuppin. I would not care if you had a million mines floating around, with no planets, no ships, and no ability to get any planets or ships, you gone. If the game host allowed this, your both ****ters.

If you only told him that to provoke a piss, but then conceeded, that is another story. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That depends entirely on teh race.

In the Stars! community, there is a race -- (in)famous throughout the community ... known as "Da Furries"; they are among THE singularly most foul-mouthed, non-house-broken, IRRITATING lil' bastards in the known multiverse.

And playing against them is an absolute BLAST, 'cause their owner/player (whose name escapes me ATM) role-plays them TO THE HILT.

My Last game of Stars! included the Furries (much to my dismay and trepidation; their player isn't a "dim bulb" WRT that game ...). The race is played to make you truly ENJOY trying your damnedest to exterminate every Last foul-mouthed, sub-sentient, filth-covered ONE of the runty bastards. Heh!!!

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Rollo... One game against a good friend I named all the big ships after his failed relation ships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

If you only told him that to provoke a piss, but then conceeded, that is another story.

Yes, that is what I did.

May I sum up?
It appears that we have Cheating issues and Gamey issues.
NO one likes cheating. Cheating in PBW and SEIV appears to mainly be hacking for an advantage. And a subset would be Player inter-action between games.
GAMEY it appears would be to take advantage of the AI's otherwise If the computer allowes you to do it then let the games begin.
SEIV is after all a state of the art space Empire simulation.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Ahhhh. Stars! the fun. I never got into the MP aspect of it, but have a fairly decent claims adjuster race. HAD actually, I lost all the balancing work when my other computer died.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Rollo is right.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for your support. There aren't any sides to take really.
I have gotten an apology from the player by email. That is settled for me.

Rollo

[ January 17, 2003, 12:03: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Funny, I always preferred Inner Strength as a PRT. Overpopulated all my worlds regularly, through the Flying SuperOrgy of Doooom(tm) .... hehehe.

Bombers? Who need's 'em, just drop 6,000,000 storm troopers from orbit; the 1.5M that survive the orbital defenses will take the planet with ease -- with all mines and factories intact!

Detach a freighter or two from the SuperOrgy to keep yoru shiny new colony fully overpopulated, move the SuperOrgy to your next target ... lather, rinse, repeat.

Heh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, that's not gamey, that's just childish. If they're that immature, I wouldn't play with them either.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Pax, yea, all the different PR traits is Stars! have very stong points. Claims adjuster don't need to spend anything to optimize a planet, opens up a LOT for colonization. You super-fockers die off every turn trying to colonize that -12 to +5 planet until they get it to the + side. in the same time period, I have built mines and defenses, and orbitals, ect...
Thats what makes it so nice. it is one of the more balanced 4x games I have played. not to mention, the AI can give you some grief from time to time. try playing stars and turn the scanner view down to 10%. lol

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Here is something that is gamey:

Joining a non-team PBW game (that is not like the Survivor tournament) where you and several friends plan out a massive alliance and all research and such to guarantee your victory.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The trick is, any lanet -- even a 100% -- gets colonised with a small seed of people (to 1/4 local max-population levels), while one or more privateer-hull ships park in orbit, full of population -- to rain babies down on the colony below.

People die on the surface, true ... but thatd oesn't matter to an IS; more people are born in orbit and beamed down, than die on the surface, until around 400% population levels (if you keep the orbital fleet growing proportional to the planet's habitation range; 1 privateer for every 5%, or one superfreighter per 20%, is usually fine. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

As for building mines, etc ... never EVER, with a non-CA, terraform until you have enough points to do so AND build 1+ factories, per turn. Then, put the terra (the most you can finish 100% in a given turn) into the top of the queue as an auto-build line.

Lastly, the AI in Stars! -- is a joke. Seriously. I regularly played with the scanner pane turned down to TWO percent -- the better to make sure no 98%-cloaked SS ships can slip through into "my" space.

Given an IS/NAS combination, with TD's installed, I could turn it up as high as 10%, but still usually went for 5% "just in case". And that's still a good hundred to hundred-fifty fleets in space.

Try playing against a set of good, solidly-skileld humans ... you too will come to agree the AI is nothing but a pest to be brushed aside with the other mosquitos.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

Yea, what he said.

The Claim Adjuster race trait is considered so powerfull that it is often Banned from most multiplayer games.

The Alternate Reality trait is considered the weakest. The population lives on star bases, not the planet below. Starbases are vulnerable sitting ducks from the mid game on.

I had wondered about the quickest way to terraform. Your correct, but did not mention why. On a hostile Yellow or RED (not native Green) planet there is a CAP on the amount of population that can produce resource points. The CAP also applies to the amount of population that can run factories. Terraforming is somewhat expensive for a new colony so it makes sense to reach the CAP for population and factories first. Once the planet goes green you may have a problem with overcrowding killing more colonist per turn then if it were hostile. So you want to be able to work up your new greens quickly, and factories help with that too.
If you do choose the Total Terraform minor trait, the teraforming is cheaper. My current race can terraform 2+ click a year, once the factories are built.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

I read on another post (aplogies to whomever wrote it author, I can't find it now) that the first troops you load are the first off to your advantage?

So by loading up a bunch of all defense troops first followed by all weapon troops, you get to fire at full power until all the defense troops are gone.

This seems to qualify as gamey, but maybe the advantage is not so huge that people really get upset about it.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

That isn't gamey at all. It is called using tactics. There is so little you can do with ground combat, and that is one of the few things you can do.

Re: PBW ethics, opinions please.
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not really. The first troops you send down to an occupied planet would be infantry cannon fodder to set up and hold a beach-head. Only then can you land the heavy stuff and start kicking ***. It's no good landing heavy artillery pieces if they all get shot up on arrival.

Consider the use of lightly-armed paratroopers (and airborne troops in gliders) to capture important bridges ahead of D-Day and Operation Market Garden. Although some tanks were equipped to land with the first waves on D-Day, the vast majority of heavy gear didn't arrive until the beaches had been taken, held & cleared by the 'grunts'.

It might seem gamey at first (especially if the assault troops have no weapons!) but it's fairly realistic.