Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Has the AI mod site been down? I have 3/4 of it D/L and now can not find it

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I uploaded, AIC v2.90; should be all set.
I had trouble loggong back on here, Friday.
I hope you received AIC v2.90 with no problems.

[ May 03, 2003, 12:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

=====================
AI CAMPAIGN v2.90 UPGRADE

~now available for download~
=====================

Conceptual:
NEW* Commercial Income Value assigned on some facilities with AIC Finite Module.
NEW* Organics are abundant and Radioactives are more rare in the AIC Universe. However all Industrial Space yards always receive priority of all goods.

Improved* Finite Friendly (Dual plus) Race Class CCs~ DESdinova
Lowered some AI's income in the AI Balance Module .
Revised some Imperial Trade Income Values for AIC Finite Economics Module.
Some revisions in AIC Tactical Fighter Module.
Lowered Some AI Mine Sweeping Abilities in AIC AI Balance Module.
Adjusted AI (theoretical AI intertraded) Colonizer Modules in AIC AI Balance Module.
Lowered AI Open Warp distance in AI Balance Mod.
Human Player Evolution rate increased about 10-20% overall.
Added AIC General Trait-Tie Racial Construction to Settlements.

Facilities:
NEW* Racial class Settlements.
NEW* Planet Lore for the Organic Race.
NEW* Religious Culture Center for the Human Player.
Revised Urban Family Progressions and costs.
Added another Nature Shrine Level for Religious Races.
Added more Abilities to all Culture Centers.
Increased level 2 and 3 Research Facilities about 25%.
Lowered Construction cost of Resupply Depot 20%
It is also faster to build a Space Port also about 25%.

Components:
NEW* Repair Base Station Component's ~ Des and PTF
NEW* Miniaturized Life Support replacing HLS ~ PTF
NEW* Fighter Solar Collector ~ LAN
NEW* Engineering Section ~ Krsqk
NEW* Sick Bay.
NEW* Basic Crew Quarters.
Added two new early Warp Open Components for Human Players.
Extra levels for the Combat Bridge ~ GLV
Revised some Fighter Weapons and Tech Requirements ~ GLV
Added Fighter shield level with all revised sizes ~ Oleg
Added Fighter Armor ~ Oleg
Revised SYS Component Repair ~ PTF
Revised Some Structure KT Sizes ~ PTF
Gestation Vat Fix ~ PTF
Medium Tech Starts Fix ~ Des
ECM VII fix ~Des
Lowered Supplemental Colonizer Module size.
Drone Launcher cargo increased.
Lowered cost and time to build for Ring and Sphere World as well as most productive SM Components.
Revised Robo-Mining Base and Ship Mining Vessels; More Profitable.

Interface:
House Keeping near Finished now with most Components and Facilities Organized.
When you scroll thru the design menu, it has a much neater and professional look. Thanks SJ, for the suggestions.

AI Files:
Slight Randomization of a few AI personalities.
I normally do not post any AI specific changes, as not to spoil some surprises.
Changed a few Political accept system AI entries~Sundevil

Notes:
No Warp style games optimized:
Reduced Sizes and Costs on some Stellar Manipulation Components.
Planetary Engineering back to se4 default tech tree.
The added research 25% expedites research time some what faster for No warp or isolated games .
Revised some AI Stellar Manipulation techniques.
Tweaked AI Research and Const Vehicle Files. (Most races are staggered, they all do not open warps at or near the same time actually some are very late openers now)
Two new Warp Open Components starting at SM Tech ONE. Opens you up to all the Systems with in your Home Cluster (6-12 systems) when Playing either Galaxies map. SM 3 will get you to the next Cluster. Note: AI initially warps its original home Cluster as well.
~~
Lowered Infantry structure in the attempt to give Troop vehicles a prominent role in combat and to increase the effectiveness of standard orbital bombardment in AIC. Cheap Militia type Infantry now die or FLEE quicker and Troop Vehicles with Armor Stand their Ground far more valiantly. Balance tips and suggestions are much welcomed here.
~~
I would like to thank {PTF}PsychoTechFreak
for the many hours of Play Testing and Suggestion with all AIC and especially No Warp Style optimization for AIC.

----------------
DOWNLOADS

Please download AI Campaign v2.90 Complete if you never recieved your copy.
~~~
AIC Version 2.90 Upgrade files only . (size; only 347kb)
Updates ALL AIC Versions.
(Will break existing pre2.90 savegames)

[ May 03, 2003, 15:44: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I like the new look in AIC v2.9 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

I am about to start my first NO WARP - FINITE game ever.

I will be Religious and Temporal, I like the layout for Dual Race class Culture Centers.

Are there any No Warp game Suggestions other then playing with a LARGE default galaxies maps ?

[ May 03, 2003, 17:08: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No did not complete the D/L have not been able to reconnect to finish it can't find server will scratch it and D/L new one

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks, Mottle.

Please let me know if the Server Acts up again, I tested it earlier and it was ok http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Although PTF is the expert in NW games,
this is what I would try in a No Warp-Finite Game.

Religious Trait.
Choose a Rock Race.
Some Intelligence Char. to speed research, since you are Isolated and with out trade.

Consider a Large default Galaxies Map in Finite Games. More systems to plunder.
~~~~
A couple of good planets in your random start is good a start.

Start game By researching: Ship 2 and Construction then follow it up with Planet Engineering to get to Planet Utilization also Industry and Computers thrown in their as well. This will give you a good infrastructure.

Home Planet Builds:
Colonizer, scrap Space Dock and Dist. Center and Build 2 settlements on the Homeworld.
Build a flow of Starliners to Breathable Colonies to increase there Production.
Scrap a settlement when you get Planet Value Improvements facility.

Colonies Planet Builds:
Send out as many Research Expeditions as Possible and then a few Religious settlements at a time(upgrade them to Towns two or three at a time). Build PVI when it is available.

Build System Support Facilities (Shrines-Bio Hospitals etc. on Scrub planets.

Only build Resource Facilities if absolutely needed.
I do not think it wise to build Industrial Centers (Robo Factories) or Time Shrine early in a Finite game until needed, it will drain resources faster. Build a few outPosts on uninhabitable planets and Asteroids for the needed boost.
~~~

Prior to researching Astrophysics and Stellar Manipulation (before Warping out) remember to have a strong defensive fleet, Fighter etc, you don't possibly know who is in the System you are opening. Or what AI might warp into your System in the middle of your Stellar Research. (Be prepared)

You also must decide where to open the Warp Point, if over your Home World and it happens to be AI players System you opened; then the AI can warp over near to your Home Planet and get in a few lucky Capture Planet ships and they will , now that is a Bit~

Think defensive and you should do well.

[ May 03, 2003, 18:35: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Still dead http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I just finished downloading the new update. I am using download accelerator. Are you using any kind of program to help you download that might support the resume or pause option?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

A couple of questions

1. Fighter Tactical module is still in beta???

- I have noticed the word module in your description of additions and changes made to this new Version of the mod was just wondering what your definition of module was? Thanks.

2. "So much Resource Surplus nowhere to put them"?

- I have noticed that within your facility.txt file you are using a pretty good balance of resources for the construction of facilities. In your components.txt file which I will assume is the proportions mod Version, there really isn't much of a balance. What I have done and I don't know if this would work for finite resource game but my rule of thumb is that whatever the mineral count is I double that number and that is the required amount of organics used for the organic resource value.

My reasoning behind this is that the workforce would consume twice the amount of food for the amount work put in the construction of mineral based object. Then with the radioactives the amount is either equal to the number of minerals or if dealing with weapons or shields the radioactives number is equal to the number organics. This might prevent so much of a surplus of resources and might provide a more realistic view of constructing a space ship which contains thirty seperate components, then the usual high number of minerals needed that overshadows the small amounts of organics or radioactives. Just my two cents. Thanks for the updated mod.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Mottlee, I just downloaded AIC Complete in under 12min at 44.0 kbps Standard.
~~~
AIC upgrade files in less then 2 min.

I don't know what to tell you. GLV and Sundevil just downloaded not to long ago with now prolems.

Edit; Downloaded again, no Problem.

Please try again.

[ May 03, 2003, 23:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it is Standard with MSN 8 and some other D/L Programs

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by SunDevil:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">'definition'... Excerpt from Mod info.
~
AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD:
Fighters now move in Tactical combat only. On the Strategic map, when launched over a planet or any sector, they remain on combat patrol for that sector until recovered by a Carrier or your planet. This makes for some new and interesting strategies and designs.
~

AIC TFM is no longer beta, and the line will be removed from the readme, thanks.
AI Campaign has been in development for several months and the AIC Tactical Fighter Mod has been Tested only the Last prior to release.
Since the Release of AI Campaign less then two Months ago, there has been desires from players of certain Components or Facilities that they wish to see. So as a natural Evolution, Items are revised, Changed and added. As you can see Posted and in the AIC History file that there are revision to all modules in AI Campaign, not just the AIC Tactical Fighter Mod. Which is pretty much where we like it. for now anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Component.Txt is Space Empire 4 Basic File.

Sundevil, I have Several months labor designing and testing this mod.

However, with that said. AI Campaigns v2.90 Component File is VASTLY different then any other Current MOD and other then about several Proportion specific common Components or a Facility, there is so very little in comparison to Proportions.

In regards to balance thru the AIC Component, Facility Files and others; I am able to achieve.

Excerpt, From Mod Info:
~
AI Campaign~ Incorporates-> AI BALANCE MOD Created specifically for a more challenging AI. AI balance allows the AI and Human Players to have some specific Components, Vehicles, and Abilities. Some examples are: the AI better handles mines now, point to point re-supply, faster ship training, sector scanning, Stellar manipulations, combating Plagues to name a few and does not use our fun stuff like; star liners, low level Master Computers etc.
~
This will not be found in any other Components file or existing MOD today and is unique only to AIC http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree to a certain extent.
If you notice I do use more Organics on some Common facilities and the Organic Races of course use organics on most of there Production.

However, FOOD and ENERGY expenditure are used also by the Population; Primarily in Urban Centers, Towns, Cities and The Like.
You will see this reflected in your game.

You may find that Finite Play with AIC Campaign Finite Economics Module is very unique, and is enhanced nicely with Imperial Trade, Commercial Income, Trade Centers and Asteroid Domes.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are quoting the AIC read me File, most People bypass this, good job http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif
Excerpt from AIC Read me:
~Tip~ "So much Resource Surplus nowhere to put them"?
Not a biggie in NON Finite Games but still waste is wastefulness so BUILD WAR SHIPS, Base Space Yards and a Base Repair Station is recommended early, or build some specific Resource Storage facilities, build from the assortment of COMMUNITIES (if Colonial Development is researched) this will not only use some of that surplus but will also provide more empire resource storage. Use the trade center to exchange the surplus for a needed resource. If your OK on resources and don’t know what facility to build, build a quick Research Facility then scrap them when in need for a Resource facility. Further more, grease the wheels of diplomacy by giving gifts or tribute in terms of resources (5-20kt)to another AI nation as to cultivate their relationship towards you- I want to stress how important this is- this AI can make a good Ally or a very persistent foe http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 07:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I only downloaded the v2.90 upgrade files, but no problem with the link or the download.
less then a minute http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS, thanks for the FYI reply my No Warp questions earlier.

Warping sounds like it could be interesting http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I found a typo in your new Religious Settlement (25).

No biggie. Although faster to build, I like the research generation better from the Colonial Settlement any way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I think I am hooked on NO WARP-FINITE http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 02:05: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Last minute I was adding Ship Yard Ability to all the Culture Centers 1500 in total for 14 and Towns 500 thru Colonial CC 2000 in total for 15. Also reducing the Space Yard Facility to 500 at the first level.

This way as you build Urban Towns and Cities with a Space Yard the Construction Rate goes up. Starting with 2000 at HW. Of course there will also be Space Yard Upgrades as well or none.

In theory this would be a breakthrough; but Alas, you can only build one space yard per Planet as per se4 rules. Unless someone knows a work around?

I absolutely can do this for the Home world with add bonuses for Races but then you would not be able to build another CC or replace a lost yard so the Idea was shelved for now http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Any way, I will take care of the Typo and put it up for download after a few more days of public playing. I should also will add Orbital Ship Repair ability to the HW General Culture Centers, I qoing to do this originally for 2.90.

Thanks, GLV

[ May 05, 2003, 22:23: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Players please remember in Traits setup.

You also have the Options for the advantage and your enjoyment:

Name := Opt 1
Description := Human Player - advantage Results in: Best Home World. (plays well in any play style)

Name := Opt 2
Description := Human Player - advantage Results in: Higher Proportions of Resources (may use up resourses quicker in Finite Games).

Or both,

Please do not consider the options above a cheat, the AI doesn’t; why should you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

These are for the balanced game of your tastes, please take advantage of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ May 04, 2003, 16:32: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Nice Job, JLS. The way you have the Components and Facilities organized is truly neat and professional looking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I always play with Option 1.
Neat installment, I like Having the best Home World. There is also no need to re-roll my character now if I want to try other options.

No Warp and Finite game setting options is also the way for me, this allows for a nice slow steady game pace. But I am afraid to open the warp to the next System. Do you suggest we build a Battle Station before the warp is opened. I am not going to open over my home world, instead I am going to setup a tiny Breathable Planet near the Home World to set up super defenses.

Is it also possible to add System Intel bonus to the Psychics CC like you did with the Temporals with System Research. I sent you an EMail, did you receive it?

Keep the Faith http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

QBrigid

[ May 04, 2003, 17:25: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thank you, QBrigid http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Keep an eye on your Planet Values, you may need to expand eventually.

Go with your gut in regards to the Battle Station although the AI does a pretty good job against fixed defenses and this includes Sat and Mine fields as well. This and Interceptors are the key to a good defense. It may not be wise to rely exclusively on the just Infantry now for the Colonies, a good light to Heavy Troop Vehicles mix should make for well rounded combined arms tactics in AI Campaign.

Also it may be best not to go to deep into Shields and/or Armor until you see who your rivals may be.

Also don’t forget to try the new Engineering Section Component for your Battle Station, not only will it give you a little in ship Damage Control but will do wonders for the Maintenance. The New Sick bay will also help with the Crews Combat efficiency as well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Warp Scientists also much prefer the added Engineering Section for it ability to maintain the Warp Opener http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

QBrigid , I like your Psychic CC Ideas and they also will go out with the addendum to v2.90.

GLV, I also suggest the Trade Center to be built early, but you probably already figured that, knowing you and your Economist ways http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 00:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

Three things:

1. You have put together a great mod, it is a shame that I spent the Last four days on putting together my personal mod, and now after already including and implementing four other mods realize that your mod will most likely not be compatible with all my work. So now I am going to have to use your mod as a base and then make any additions or changes to that. I wish I would of analyzed your mod a couple of days ago and saved me some work but oh well. You have definitely put together a great mod.

2. I am just curious during your research why you decided to create a tech for ai advantage and neutral advantage. I also have noticed in your vehiclesize.txt file that some of the resource values for some ships are different for the human player and the ai player.

3. Minor question: In the settings.txt file you have cd music set to false and was just wondering if there was an issue to switch this back to true?

Thanks.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not 100% sure, but I think the system scanners, system robos and time shrines do not drain resources faster. Because the bonus is given to the system only, it can be seen on the empire resources screen only, the planet production numbers remain the same as before. Someone likes to confirm/disprove this?

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am not 100% sure, but I think the system scanners, system robos and time shrines do not drain resources faster. Because the bonus is given to the system only, it can be seen on the empire resources screen only, the planet production numbers remain the same as before. Someone likes to confirm/disprove this?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks PTF, now I am not sure http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I think if it shows on the Planets Resource Production Screen then it adds to the Depletion for a Planet Modifier.

You are probably right about the Time Shrine and other System Modifiers.

I said you would know best http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I new I should of kept silent http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 14:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, Pocus.

Nope, no HOUSE RULES with in the default files.
Play anyway you want against this AI.
If you find a way to exploit this AI (within reason so your outcome will be a win); then please pass it on THRU E-MAIL please and you and I will fix it (ASAP).

Have all the mine Fields you want by the time the AI has Light Cruisers or attacks with a very large fleet your Mines and Sats are just mere target practice.
As would a Human opponents in multiplayer.
So back them up with a fleet of your own.

Make all the Star Liners and Colony ships you want, the AI will look at them as a waist of your time, however they are not, you can not win with out a very good Transportation system in AIC.
Funny how the AI likes to pick them and OutPosts off ( if he truily thought they were a waist http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~Tip~Make freighters out of a Starliner Hull and Basic Life Support, very econmical for the Human Player.
~~

ALL AI in AIC will Capture Planets some more then Others…

This AI has the Ability and in every game with plentiful Foes should capture somebody’s Home World or two. You will see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The AI seldom attacks Blindly, Persistent maybe.

~TIP~ Timely Trades and most Agreements with the AI, is a good road to victory in AIC.

Watch their posture toward you and watch some of the AI races play you.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 06, 2003, 14:42: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by klausD:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hi, Klaus D.

If you; as a Human Player, build infantry at your Home World you would build 101 of them per turn, you can have 1000+ units your self in just 10 turns. As you can see this does add up… http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The AI is programmed for just under a 1000 units (mostly Milita Infantry) in his first 10 turns of the game. This is so it is not quickly jumped; if there is a greedy adjacent neighbor, Human or AI http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
As I said, this AI captures Planets.

So it is with the AI. After 50 turns and a few Colonies it will add up to a few Thousand units , several thousand by the 100 turn mark.

Tens of Thousands as you reach the 500 turn Mark…

I will let you get to the 1000 turn aand after mark to find out the rest.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 16:29: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

i found out the hardway about the troops the ai uses. it took two planets from me b4 i realized what it had done. now i keep a minimum of 100 troops on all planets just so i have time to get to them with additional support as needed.
i have had to change my tactics as JLS releases each upgrade to the ai. i would never survive a pbw game because of my playing style, which is to slowly expand system by system keeping fleets at warppoints to stay isolated and no trade or research agreements. with the way the game is setup i have learned i need to have those agreements since i can no longer create massive mining bases as in the original game. thus if i want to create viable fleets and be able to maintain them then trade is necessary.
i have also learned that the best items to build are the settlements and colonies facilities. they give research, intelligence and resources all for 1 facility slot. however beware of building too many at once as when you upgrade them it is all or nothing. if you have 6 settlements built then when you upgrade it is all 6 at once and that can take 2-5 years depending on you construction rate.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

~Tip~ Make economical freighters to Carry units.
Use the Star Liner Hull.
Use Basic Life Support not Population Life Support Module
A few engines and a little Supply…

~Tip~ Have a few Tankers full of Supply, on a Small Transport Hull.

~Tip~ Build a Repair Base Station before you make serious upgrades.

~Tip~ Utilize the Engineering Section Component where at all possible http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~TIP~ Their is about a 10 turn payback in AIC, when mothballing, so MOTHBALL judicially.

[ May 05, 2003, 16:25: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Desdinova has a very strong points. here in his intire Post http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
~~
You need Urban Communities to win; especially in finite.

However the more Towns and Cities you are Building the more FOOD and ENERGY expended from your economy to supply them. (as in the non virtual world)

Desdinova plan is solid: Build a few Urban Settlements at a time and then upgrade them to a town or Cities.

It is wise not to go past town in Colonial Development until your Economy can afford Cities.

With Refining and Agrarian Communities same thing, don’t research past Society until your Economy can withstand the increased expansion burden.
~~~~

~TIP~ If you don’t currently need Resources, set out some Research expeditions.
The Facility scrap rate to rebuild is very conducive in AIC.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 05, 2003, 16:22: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

question on finite games, i havent played one in a while. i know that each turn your resources drop. is it based on the amount you mine or a fixed amount each turn? if it is based on the amount you mine then using the urban centers would be even more useful since they dont mine but generate resources thru trade and other means. then adding on the industrial center and other bonus generation complexes would seem to be even more beneficial since they wont increase the rate of resource loss either.
EDIT: oops, i am wrong, they do use mining for part of their resource generation but then use other means for bonus resource generation. still they sound better than just mining facilities since some of their resource generation comes from other means

[ May 05, 2003, 16:52: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

"What will be the new Premise or Concepts of your new MOD; that you will be using AIC as a Base for?"

-I am putting together a mod that increases the size of the planets, adding more facilities to be built, increasing the amount of resources it takes to build facilities, components and ships, and then adding the star wars race packs to the game. I have always felt that this game ("the stock Version not a mod Version.") really limits the options of planets and the amount of space and choices that are available to add facilites. The mod I am putting together is just a collection of ideas to test them out to see if it is possible within this game's structure and ai capacity to work.

The reason why I am using your mod as a base, is since you already have the ai working well, I just wanted to add my changes and not have to rework the ai to much. I am not planning on releasing anything nor would I try to take credit for any of your mod's work. I guess you could relate so of my testing to the concepts of the "primitives" thread on this board. I just trying to add more depth to this game.

"I will tie this thru the AIC setup Traits menu or tech cancel menu for v3.00 next month. In a way for Human Players to choose between Tactical or Partial Fighter Move.
The AI will be set to Tactical only but may have the option if I do this thru traits menu.
What are your thoughts on this?"

- I haven't been on this board for a very long time. Could you explain more about tactical or partial fighter move concept.

- By adding this as a trait yes, I think it would work, but you might have to make double engine components and double ship designs right?
Thanks.

"Sundevil, can you give me a hand designing a race or two for me, if so please choose one to your tastes that I have not done and use an existing as a template… Grand Lord Vito wants to do the Praetorians so any other would be a big help towards Version v3.00 the Final Release of AI Campaign with the [se4 v1.84] engine."

- Designing a new race, or an existing one that is not in your mod? I wouldn't mind doing the star wars races, but then again Andrés Lescano has done great work on this already.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly, a fair amount of Resource depletion was setup on each Urban Community as to retain that feeling of any lost and forever bad investments in a Finite game, and to retain somewhat a decline in a Planets Potential.
Total-Trade=Resource Generation. This is the facilities depletion amount.

However the Trade and Commercial income is free and you are correct does not Deplete a Planets Resource Potential.

High out put facilities that are used in the Resource Extraction and Mining Outpost Catagory etc, will deplete a planet relatively fast.

[ May 05, 2003, 21:52: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by SunDevil:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I like it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif , I would like to help if, possible from time to time.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I designed the Tactical Fighter mod for AIC because the AI does a poor job with Fighter inter system travel, actually it does nothing. TFM was designed to balance this, as it turns out it works out very nicely with Fighter Stacking as well.

PvKs Version; I believe will be more in line of an Excellent Compromise , where in early stages the Fighters will move in Tactical only then with some advanced research move as default se4. The only way to go in Multiplayer and has much merit in Solitaire Play, assuming the AI has time to Research and setup sufficient Point Defenses.

Other wise as it is in base se4, this is not good for the AI because the Human player can anchor his fleet just one sect away for the AI Home World and BLast his Planet to bits with waves of fighters then follow up with the Troops. With no recourse to his Carriers or Troop Ships.

In Tactical, the Human Player must Commit; possibly with a lose; in some, most or all his ships, most certainly a loss to some, most or ALL Troopships…

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, now that I know what your goals are, Andrés Lescano has done an Awesome Job, why change anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Also the AIC files are not the same as another mods and visa versa or base se4.
For example. The design component calls are not in sequence with the other Files.
Most AI setting are based on the AIC maps.
Which are tied into the Quad and SyS files.
Anger files are also related to AI design and Planet type strengths.
The all General files have Tie Ins.
The Trait file has Tie Ins.
All construction Files must be AIC conformed.
The Component File Has Tie Ins.
The Facility File has Tie Ins.
The Vehical File Tie Ins.
Basicly every file must be related.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
My god, good luck

[ May 05, 2003, 23:13: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Just tested a bit the mod. Can I use Starliners to transport units, or is it an house rules to not do so?

Also, will AI really uses the troops it build, or will it glasses planet blindy? I doubt a bit that you can teach them to not kill all pop.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I just played AIC the first time and I think I like it so far. But I dont understand why the AI has several Thousands! of units (I play with visible scores) after just some turns. Is this a bug or is this a "feature" of the mod? (I looked at the vehiclesiz.txt and the AI balance data indicated that eg AI-fighters cost only 1 mineral or so, while human players pay 10 - but I am not sure if this is the reason of so many AI-units)

maybe one of you could give me some info about this. Thanks alot.
KlausD

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Originally posted by SunDevil:

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thank You very much SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

What will be the new Premise or Concepts of your new MOD; that you will be using AIC as a Base for?

For example: PvK promises to be coming out with a semi tactical Fighter Modifications that allows Partial to full fighter Movement for his Proportions Mod and it sounds fascinating. He has asked me to wait, and I am sure his improvements; will be well worth the wait. If not released soon by PvK; some players have asked me to install an alternate fighter movement until PvK’s release, and one must be thrown togeather.
I will tie this thru the AIC setup Traits menu or tech cancel menu for v3.00 next month. In a way for Human Players to choose between Tactical or Partial Fighter Move.
The AI will be set to Tactical only but may have the option if I do this thru traits menu.
What are your thoughts on this?

Version 3.00 AIC; due out next month. I still need to expanded Component, Facility and Tech tree.
And the AI toned down even a little more.
But first. Public Play will determine the Mid and End Game by there feed back of averaged play.
Allowing me to get the Right Techs out; at evolutionarily, the right time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
For example: If Race A has access to the {Silver Bullet} weapon, then I must make sure that race B has the time to at least have the [option] available to counter the {Silver Bullet} weapon before I add seventeen tech levels to it.

All the se4 original races will be added as well.
Atrocities has authorized that I may do a Star Trek AI, for AIC.
The Credits file Completed.
QBrigid is going to go over the Read Me file and neaten it up.
And much more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
=======

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AI Campaign crunches more numbers then base se4 and most other Mods so I defaulted CD music to off.

Depends on your systems resources and your desires.
Most play with music off after a while.
Sure, turn it on, if you like http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
=======

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to Advantage, the Human Player has some extra choices in the Traits Menu to taylor their game before starting.

As this applies to the AI; as you can see, my programming allows the Trait to be an extra:
(2) a throttle for the AI Supply Range and (3) Throttle for AI Production.
Throttles may be fine tuned (in file) by the Players or Myself.

Other then that, there is no such (Advantage tech) area.
~~~
In regards to AI Balance Tech. My programming here is the Cornerstone for the AI in AIC’s AI Balance MOD as it Ties every aspect together.
It now offers the AI the Abilities to better sweep mines, Planetary Bombardment, Sector Scanning etc. In regard to AI Productive Stellar Manipulations and Transports pop, sat & mine launchers etc. I do want it low. But in regards to AI Offensive SM it is the same as Humans (use it or loose it) do to se4 engine programming the AI can not Moth Ball as Humans do, I am able to reduce there costs so they may build the device even though they may never use them, since the only trigger for the AI to Build vehicles is the way the Modder sets up the MODS Construction File. As Master Belisarius has said and in which many of us agree and hope for, is that the AI will get triggers with some intuition in the next se5 engine.

AI Balance tech is really not their for the AI advantage, unless you think the AI should be pined behind a Human Player mine field or sacrifice ship after ship banging its head against it. Same applies to Resupply, thru the se4engine the AI must turn back for resupply at an early condition, were as the Human Player can Calculate the next fuel stop and get there on vapors.

Same applies ~"~,well, AI Balance Mod attempts to address several other areas, as you can see.
~~~

In regards Neutral Balance; as you notice it is a disadvantage not an advantage. This is for the Neutrals only to have Smaller Home Worlds so they are weaker then the Rest of the AI from the go.
This helps with AI diplomacy and a few other areas in AIC. Also if the Neutrals Home Word is captured it is not as big of a Hit to the overall advantage of the capturing Race and there are a few more tie ins with my programming.

A future Neutral Ship Set or AI designer now also has the ability to add a Racial Trait or some Characteristics. With this disadvantage in place; the Neutral turning will not be turned into a Power http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

As I did with the Nultoh Group by adding Psychic Trait, just to match his eyes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Name := NEU
Description := !ONLY AI SHOULD TO TAKE THIS TRAIT! For Neutral AI Pre-Game Point Set up.
Pic Num := 0
General Type := Disadvantage
Cost := -1600
Trait Type := Planet Storage Space
Value 1 := -20
Value 2 := 0

I hope my explanations, were helpful?
~~~

In regards to the vehiclesize.txt file in respect with your expressed question and as it applies to the AI in AIC, this is primarily a progression of settings to the AI for the:
{LATE END GAME} AI SHIP THROTTLE and must be reset with extreme CAUTION…
The setteings will determine a 1000 turn game going bust by an over bearing AI or a cake walk for the Human Player, both; a very poor situation for a designer. So go with the averages here.

My goal here (initially) is for the AI to beat the Solitaire Human Player 1 out of 3 games or better when END GAME play is reached.
~
2: The AI to win Two out of Three when in the Mid Game and/if the Human wants to try the bonsai approach on the AI.

3: The AI to win Three out of Five games in the opening when a Violent AI is adjacent to a Human Player.
If this is the case, in a random game and the Human Player is in adjacent systems, the Human has less then 50 Turns {5years} to get his act together for the most part, when next to the HIVE, Crystalline etc. as if it was next door to a Human Player; we can’t see to many Human Players as I giving to much quarter to another Human Players, what would you say?

In the above scenario. The Human Player only Priority MUST build a strong defense and or offence to counter the neighboring Violent AI race and if so the Human Player May have the WIN if not he will loose.
All the Computers and Infrastructure Techs will not save him in the early game. I doubt a Central Computer will do much damage to the AIs hull.
In regards to increased infrastructure just neater buildings for the AI to capture or glass.

I also have less apparent events that may occur during your AIC game
By design and by
'Wow', get a look at that, what made that happen http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif

~~~
Sundevil, can you give me a hand designing a race or two for me, if so please choose one to your tastes that I have not done and use an existing as a template… Grand Lord Vito wants to do the Praetorians so any other would be a big help towards Version v3.00 the Final Release of AI Campaign with the [se4 v1.84] engine.

[ May 05, 2003, 20:21: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I like Finite but I don’t like No Warp games http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The Religious Culture Center is way to powerful http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

The abundant organics are http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif neat trick

[ May 06, 2003, 18:09: Message edited by: Grand Lord Vito ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Whats this I see about you pulling a fast one on the AI…
What, you wont give Queen Triana of the Sergetti Empire, her revenge.
She will warp in on you, anyway http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Or is it that you are afraid to get beat by a Lassie especially an AI Lassie http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
~~~

What is it, about No Warp games you dislike?


The Religious Culture Center is a wee powerful in Non Finite, and this Version is designed Primarily for Solitaire.
Also only Human Players get a Religious CC.

Impressions are so far, is that the Religious trait is well received.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 08, 2003, 23:33: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

When I start a game and it doesn't matter which race I pick, it seems that my homeworld is full of cultural centers. I can assume that the ai's homeworld is then also filled with cultrual centers and was wondering if it was beneficial for my homeworld to be full of cultural centers or should I recycle some and get more resources and build something else? And does the ai sooner or later recycle some of their cultural centers and rebuild something else? Thanks.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Good Question, SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

This is true, you do have several Culture Centers types and each will have its own special abilities in AIC; depending on your Racial Traits chosen when you started your Character.

In most games when started; you may have up to 3 quick viable scraps.

1: Distribution Center. This is inherent with the CC and should be Scraped at your earliest Convenience.

2: Space Dock. This is also inherent with the CC and should be Scraped at your earliest Convenience.

~Tip~ Possibly a research expedition, an advanced Settlements that can be upgraded to Towns and Cities, Computers, Planetary Shields, a needed Resource Colony, Planet Value Plants, etc. may be built as new Construction for above.

3: Space Yard Facility. This will require more thought as it applies to your current games events and Progress. For example: what is your current Ship Yard rate on your BSYs orbiting the Home World. Do you have a few Construction Colonies already built up and the Home Worlds Space Yard is now possably redundant and a newly acquired Devise or Facility may be far more profitable and/or beneficial http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
A lot of players like to make tough Decisions and do like this aspect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

It is possible to Set up AIC to have less Cultural Centers, what would you suggest be added in its Place. In the start of the game there is no facility near as Productive as your Home Lands Population Center, just as it is with Europe, the Americas, Asia~ well, all the continents in our World.

Now as time goes on in your AIC game, you may find other viable reasons to rebuild a Structure, in the Place of what may become an old and antiquated Population Center. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

~Hint~ When you scrap a Home Worlds Culture Center you will have the benefit of its very conducive Recycle Value. When in a jam this could be a Last Mobilization effort.

However this is also arranged in AI Campaign as an evolutionary choice. You must reach an Infrastructure Capability to except this premium fully. It is also best to have a cost-per-effect alternative build.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ May 09, 2003, 00:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I never knew how to save a turn before, in a way I could always go back to that spot, in a simultaneous game before you posted that. Works for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">With all this time into the game, just to warp in on a bad guy. Besides this was my first No Warp game. Its fun and it is sure scary not knowing what Pandora’s box that you will be open in the next System.

Sergetti has not warped in, she will be in for a surprise when she does.

I think my biggest problem with my No Warp game is I set for many AI Players. Should of left it at default.

When this game is finished, I am going to go back to just Finite, with out question, AI Campaign is the best way to play Finite in any form.

If only Human Players get a Religious CC then I guess it is ok. It is great in Finite no doubt here. I will finish this game then play AIC in just Finite mode and let you know.

I usually build a few towns then upgrade all the way to the New CCs late in the game to replace the early home world scraps.
When I replace the SY it is with the Temporal type. With this, you can replace the old original CCs faster.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed, Temporal Yards can crank out the Urban Centers.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

I am fifty turns into a really good game of my mod that I am playing around with and I switched all the computer players over to human control just to get an idea of how they are doing and I have noticed that your revised AI mod does include some races. For instance the Praetorians do not have any facilities on their planets. Now I assume that this can be explained by the fact that in their general.txt file they are not given the ai optional picks to select the ai regulated tech that you have created for your mod. I was just wondering what your intent was for these types of ignored races and was curious if you had documented this in your readme and I was just blind not to see it. The races that you have edited are kicking butt and are doing quite well. Thanks for a great mod and any feedback would be appreicated.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thank you. SunDevil http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The reason that the Non AIC races are loosing of course, is that your added AI races are not programmed for the AI Balance Module. For example: Mine sweeping, Tactical Fighter designs etc.

They are also Primarily loosing because the Non-AIC design files are not loading: Plate armor, Planetary Weapons the right Sensors, Infantry or even transports; troop or other wise and many more components correctly. This is due to the way AIC ties most design functions of the AI from the AI Balance Module.

Same applies to facilities. Your non-AIC AI that you put in your game was not Programmed to take advantage of the Finite Economics Module in AI Campaign.
For Example: Specific race Culture Centers, towns, Cities etc.

Please note: This is no reflection to the un-modded race or races, that you may use.
That are absolutely fine in there MOD or Base group. All race AI must load from there Parent Mods files, so any other race will be at a disadvantage in AIC and Visa Versa.
---
There is a brief sentence in the AIC README that future upgrades will have the full complement of se4 races as well as some Races from other designers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

We are currently working on the seven uncompleted se4 Races at this time.

edit 5-17-03:
AIC v2.91 all se4 races are completed...

[ May 17, 2003, 20:04: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Players Feed Back please.

In the next upgrade, do you think we should include Ship Repair Capabilities on the Human Players CC. This would be on average 6 or more Component repairs from your Home World at the start of the game.

Or is it best to leave Repair to the new Orbital Repair Base Station..

Play testing has shown it is not; to big of an advantage to the Human Player and I am leaning towards, giving the Repair Capability to the General Population Centers.

What do you-all think.

[ May 10, 2003, 15:34: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

would you still leave the system maintenance facility or would that be removed? the system maintenance facility's ability to generate minerals in addition to its other 2 abilities makes it one of the first facilities i build, usually the 2nd or 3rd facility. on the homeworld i usually scrap the spacedock and replace it with the smf.

question on no warp games: about what turn should the ai begin building warppoint generating ships? i am on turn 112 and so far no other race has developed them. i have made the settings so i can compare all races and so far i am the only one that has more than 1 system. all of the other races outnumber me on ships, bases and units.

edit: john i am sending you modified tech area and facility files for midlevel tech starts.

[ May 10, 2003, 18:34: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

I agree with Destinova, I also really like the System Maintenance Facility. The Repair Ability on the Pop Centers will make AIC easier for the Human Player if this is what you are looking for. This is not a bad idea because the frontier repair yards will still be needed.

In my warp game, Destinova the Eee had his Second System before the 12th Year. The Terrans were the real expansionists, they showed the 2nd System around the 15th Year followed by another race every few years, or so.

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

thanks. i will have to look at the other races then and see why they are not doing this in mine.

[ May 10, 2003, 20:32: Message edited by: desdinova ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

Thanks, Desdinova.

I received your Files, they are great http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

The System Maintenance Facility will always be in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Orbital Repair Ability may be put on the General Population CCs only.
As a Temporal or Dual Race Player, for example; you will have the Bonus that you now get on your Temporal CCs, Plus (other if dual CC) plus an extra 6 Repairs at the HW from the General Pop CCs.

Where as a Non Racial Trait Player will get about 12 Repairs plus the Bonuses that are enjoyed from that Cultural Center, on that Home World.
~
This makes it easier for New Players that May Choose to reduce there Repair Percentage by Culture or Characteristic.
As well as some added bonus for the Non Racial Trait Human Players CC.
--------------------

AI WARP Schedule: AIC v2.90 Files.

Science Races. Early about 10 Years
Engineering Races. About 15 Years
Merchents Races. Under 20 Years
Aggressive Races. Around 20 Years

Above is not an absolute for many reasons.

Other AIs are rated by how Friendly they may be to a Human Player.
The more Violent the AI is; the latter they will warp. None before 25 Years.
In this way resulting in a more relaxed game for the Human Player.

Of course while you were researching Stellar Manipulation etc. that Violent AI is researching Weapons, Fighters and Ships.
So if you warp into a Violent Race's HS, he will be more then prepared http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

There (by your warp) goes your relaxed game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Right GLV http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

The Xenophobic Races will WARP very Late.

Also depending on the {AI Strategy State} after First Contact with a Human or another AI, that AI Player may not warp again until its; AI State readjusts.

[ May 13, 2003, 12:00: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

JLS,

Almost finished with the Sallega Race designs, the ship designs are looking good.
JLS are you almost done with the AI for them. We cannot wait until they are in the game.
The v2.91 beta file you sent, was just Facility and some AI files when are you going to send Desdinova’s Medium Level Tech Start game enhancement file, it sounds great.

Prefer that we did have the Repair ability on the General Population Centers.
Thanks for adding the new abilities to the Psychic Population Centers.

So far, the No Warp game is smooth, with view all players on as you asked, most players have 2 or more Systems, and there are no other Races in my Galaxy Cluster.

[ May 13, 2003, 14:24: Message edited by: QBrigid ]

Re: AI Campaign => For a Challenging AI opponent
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Looks like all the Races, will be done this month. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Thanks, for the help with the Design Files and the ideas for their individual personality quirks on your new races, most of which can be done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I sent a copy of Desdinova’s Medium Level Tech start game ideas. Please give it a test drive, it has some neat ideas.

[ May 13, 2003, 12:04: Message edited by: JLS ]