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-   Space Empires: IV & V (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20)
-   -   Moo3 is a shareware now (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=9541)

eddieballgame June 13th, 2003 11:54 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by atomannj:
Can't believe the designers of MOO3 released this garbage. Space Empires rules. Even BOTF was better.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It seems to me that you & Fyron need at least 2 things, a life & a clue. You maybe able to convince yourselves of what you say, but certainly not the ones who disagree with you. So why not get over it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 22:55: Message edited by: eddieballgame ]

Phoenix-D June 14th, 2003 12:03 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
eddie: same applies to you..and arguing that way with Fyron is pointless. He's entire too patient, you'll just go around and around for 30 pages, getting into increasingly obscure and off-topic references.

narf poit chez BOOM June 14th, 2003 12:21 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
how do you get around the expense of subways?

eddieballgame June 14th, 2003 12:22 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
eddie: same applies to you..and arguing that way with Fyron is pointless. He's entire too patient, you'll just go around and around for 30 pages, getting into increasingly obscure and off-topic references.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good advice, I concur. Sometimes I do get a little excited when I am "defending" something I consider worthy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Do not mean to offend or show disrespect. Thanks

Ragnarok June 14th, 2003 12:24 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Edit: Post doesn't apply as I was too slow. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 13, 2003, 23:25: Message edited by: Ragnarok ]

Roanon June 14th, 2003 12:32 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
It rather looks like the majority has the same opinion like Fyron and Atomannj. So YOU better get over it, Eddie... and personal attacks on someone just because he has a different opinion than yours are just not appropriate here.

A clickfeast at best, the unfriendly user interface and non-influencable stupid AI decisions for what is supposed to be MY empire spoils the fun for me like for most strategy game players. I like being able to (micro)manage everything in my empire, but that doesn't mean that I like doing it with a dozen mouseclicks for each simple decision, and often even in vain because it is altered back the very next turn by this supid not disengagable AI. Plus plus plus - I too think the game is junk at its finest. My opinion as someone who likes strategy games.

Of course, anyone who likes sim-type games, where you do only the most basic things and the rest is taken out of your hands, will think differently. I don't have a problem with it. I only have a problem with people luring strategy gamers into the trap of buying this sim-game. Misery likes company, or why? Accept that what you like is not what everyone likes. And the rapid price decay plus Ebay overcrowded with cheap offers shows what the majority really thinks.

Atrocities June 14th, 2003 03:07 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Hey Roanon I don't think he was attacking anyone, but merely posting his heart felt opinion about the topic in much the same way we all do when we feel compassionate about the subject. Sometimes in posting we think and post some things that would be best left unposted. But those involved in this incident are all adult enough to take it in stride just like water off a ducks back.

I respect any person who has the dedication and character to say "hey I don't agree with you."

Oposite opinions often lead to great debates and strong bonds of respect for one another. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 14, 2003, 02:13: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Suicide Junkie June 14th, 2003 05:17 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
how do you get around the expense of subways?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, naturally, you build up more slowly since they cost more. Let the game run at max speed while you do your thing.

Also, you can start with a regular road city to get a fast start, and once the tax money starts rolling in, just switch over to the subways for new construction and slowly retrofit the "old town" when you feel like it.

Raging Deadstar June 14th, 2003 08:20 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Hmm the BIG Question is has eddieballgame played multiplayer SEIV? Thats where Space empires comes into a league of it's own! Nothing beats the thrill of plotting your downright dirty and scheming revenge on your best friends empire....Now excuse me but i have a cloacked sun destroyer to dispatch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Will June 14th, 2003 08:37 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by narf poit chez BOOM:
how do you get around the expense of subways?
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, naturally, you build up more slowly since they cost more. Let the game run at max speed while you do your thing.

Also, you can start with a regular road city to get a fast start, and once the tax money starts rolling in, just switch over to the subways for new construction and slowly retrofit the "old town" when you feel like it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">When I used to play SimCity 2000, I would start by building a "spiral" city. Start at the edge, building roads in a spiral so that the usable land is in six-tile wide strips, in a spiral all the way to the center. At first everything is mixed, but as the game progresses, it is mainly commerce in the middle, residential surrounding it, and industrial along the outside. A bit of everything is mixed to prevent local economic colapses. Then I would slowly retrofit around the spiral to the all-subway system (starting from the center), and would begin constructing acrologies along the outside. I forget what my population eventually reached, but it was over the highest one I found on the 'Net by about 200k. I thought that was cool for about a day, then promptly got bored with it, and never played again.

ObMoO3: Haven't bought it... don't really plan to anytime in the near future. Frankly, too many bad reviews on the interface, design, and general buginess. Besides, I don't have as much time for games anymore, I still have SE3, SE4, started into Dungeon Odyssey, StarFury is coming out soon, SE5 is in the works, I have CounterStrike lying around for a frag-fest once in a while, and the somehow always-addictive Solitaire, Minesweeper, and Pinball. Maybe I'll pick it up sometime when I've graduated.

eddieballgame June 14th, 2003 08:37 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
[quote]Originally posted by Roanon:
[QB]It rather looks like the majority has the same opinion like Fyron and Atomannj. So YOU better get over it, Eddie... and personal attacks on someone just because he has a different opinion than yours are just not appropriate here.[quote]

I too like strategy games, I am a rated NM in Chess, a LM in Bridge, & am in the process of learning & studying what I consider the greatest strategy game of all-GO, as us westerners call it. (Igo, Weichi, & Baduk as it is known in the Asian community). I, of course, also enjoy many pc "strategy" games as well.
I just get a little annoyed when a certain program has been so misrepresented. MOO3 v1.2 makes your comments sound very uninformed. Just the facts as I see them. It was never my intent to "sell" MOO3, just shine the light on what I had considered some "angry" analysis. It was certainly not my intent to upset anyone.
As far as "the majority has the same opinion", I think that depends on what forums you frequent. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Anyways, Go Redsox!!!

eddieballgame June 14th, 2003 08:42 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Senator Raging Deadstar:
Hmm the BIG Question is has eddieballgame played multiplayer SEIV? Thats where Space empires comes into a league of it's own! Nothing beats the thrill of plotting your downright dirty and scheming revenge on your best friends empire....Now excuse me but i have a cloacked sun destroyer to dispatch http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No I haven't,BUT, am very interested in trying it. The program looks awesome, very detailed. Question---How is Hotseat, have you played it that way? How is multiplay Online, is it similar to what STARS! was. Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ June 14, 2003, 07:43: Message edited by: eddieballgame ]

Raging Deadstar June 14th, 2003 08:47 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
After all this complaining and arguing over one game. I decided to check out the website and just see what it was like. Then if i was remotely impressed might download a demo of it, make up my own mind about it (if it doesn't have one i havn't found it, but that will be revealed later)

Of coursec i do a quick search, clcik on the homepages link (http://moo3.quicksilver.com/) and.....
IT DOESN'T WORK LOL http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Might be my connection but i have tried connecting and disconnecting to give moo3 a fair chance to at least see what people are complaining and arguing about. But, sorry to say it, the MOO3 site is less reliable than Fyron's forums http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , which also haven't been working for me recently! *hint*

If anyone would care to point me to a site with some info about MOO3 and some screenshots etc i'd be most obliged, although after all the complaints i'm worried that i might have to play SEIV for another night straight to get this Moo3 idea out my head, i feel myself converting to the darkside http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Anyway, i need caffeine, it's been a while i pulled an all nighter on SEIV, although i can remember doing it on the demo of SEII, that was a long time ago. But after listening to most people i'm thinking that this MOO3 game isn't going to match up to Space Empires http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

*The dillusioned ramblings of a sleep deprived 16 year old* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Raging Deadstar June 14th, 2003 08:53 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
I'm currently in a Hot Seat Game right now with one of my friends. It's a great way to play as theres no waiting for the upload of turns, but you must be prepared to have your friends entertained while you do your turns. Of course i have played a game where we both just watched each other so we knew exactly what each other was doing and it was one large counter move after another, it was a fun game! But i prefer the feeling of suprise when you send your fleet through an enemy wormhole http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

atari_eric June 14th, 2003 09:43 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by deccan:
(True Fact: I was browsing around the MOO3 forums earlier today and one of the programmers was saying that they couldn't fix the part of the diplomacy system that generates the famously cryptic speeches made by AI controlled empires because it's a black box that nobody understood anymore.)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Okay, I am a Games Programmer, and this is just wrong. It is one thing to "inherit" another game company's code and not make heads or tails of it; it is quite another to generate your own code and declare it a "black box" of confusion. How this was tolerated is anyone's guess (I know how it got there - someone here mentioned a lack of leadership. I've seen someone posit that organizing programmers is like herding cats...) I guess there were no "bosses" to punish this sort of behavior...

This concept, to me, is just infathomable. I would think it better (junior as I am) to delete and rewrite from pseudocode rather than keep such a malfunctioning piece of code in a project.

Fyron June 15th, 2003 01:02 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by eddieballgame:
It seems to me that you & Fyron need at least 2 things, a life & a clue. You maybe able to convince yourselves of what you say, but certainly not the ones who disagree with you. So why not get over it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I will ask you not to flame me (or anyone else) again... I most certainly have a clue (and more than one clue at that), and a life.

Quote:
Originally posted by Phoenix-D:
eddie: same applies to you..and arguing that way with Fyron is pointless. He's entire too patient, you'll just go around and around for 30 pages, getting into increasingly obscure and off-topic references.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Bah. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally posted by Raging Deadstar:
But, sorry to say it, the MOO3 site is less reliable than Fyron's forums , which also haven't been working for me recently! *hint*
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Would you care to contribute money to the Get Fyron Better Web Hosting Fund? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Quote:
Originally posted by atari_eric:
This concept, to me, is just infathomable. I would think it better (junior as I am) to delete and rewrite from pseudocode rather than keep such a malfunctioning piece of code in a project.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll second that motion...

[ June 14, 2003, 12:09: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Loser June 16th, 2003 05:01 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by atari_eric:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by deccan:
(True Fact: I was browsing around the MOO3 forums earlier today and one of the programmers was saying that they couldn't fix the part of the diplomacy system that generates the famously cryptic speeches made by AI controlled empires because it's a black box that nobody understood anymore.)
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...
This concept, to me, is just infathomable. I would think it better (junior as I am) to delete and rewrite from pseudocode rather than keep such a malfunctioning piece of code in a project.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh yeah, I've been there.
Quote:
Sitting in the University computer lab with my prof.

So we'll run the debugger, right?
Yes, please go ahead.
Okay. Here you can see the involved variables: their names should clearly indicate their function. The code is commented, I think...
Yes, yes. Go ahead
so I start stepping through the code at the troubled place
There. Did you see that. What happened there
Prof pauses for twenty seconds looking intently at the screen, then motions me out of the way.
Prof spends three minutes poking at the code and the debugger. Sits back and again stares at the screen, this time for a whole minute.
Um... well?
Delete it all. Start over. I'll give you one extra day. Have it in my office by midnight or take a zero.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

solops June 16th, 2003 09:55 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
I just started playing MOO3 with the code patch. I never tried it pre-patch. Its not bad. Had it been released like this its reception would have been much better. It still has blemishes and a few really bad items, but it is now a likeable game, I think. If you turn off ALL of the AI Governors you can get all of the micromanagement and most of the control you might want, which is how I play.

Fyron June 16th, 2003 11:46 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Too bad it still has a really poor interface...

Wardad June 17th, 2003 01:43 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
An interesting unfixed bug:

"If you cede control (to AI) of a space combat choosing to assault the planet, and have both troop ships and a planet destroyer present, then if you win the combat the AI will unload your troops onto the planet AND destroy it."

Way to go AI!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
What would Ruatha do?

******************************************
and another interesting bug:

If you go for a 5x victory you have to be really careful that no planet revolts, while you research the Last X, else you will lose, because somehow the new empire(emerging from your revolting colony) gets credited the 5x win.

Is it the ATARIan 5X bug? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

*****************************************
and another interesting bug:

“When transports are destroyed but their fleet wins the battle, the troops on those ships are still able to land.”

It must be gravity landing those troops without the ships. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

[ June 17, 2003, 01:00: Message edited by: Wardad ]

Loser June 17th, 2003 04:05 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Wardad:
An interesting unfixed bug:

"If you cede control (to AI) of a space combat choosing to assault the planet, and have both troop ships and a planet destroyer present, then if you win the combat the AI will unload your troops onto the planet AND destroy it."
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Genocide Quotient
G*: Everything burns!

solops June 17th, 2003 03:46 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Too bad it still has a really poor interface...
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, kludgy in several places, but not quite as bad as I had been led to believe. Could have been better, much better.

Will June 18th, 2003 01:10 AM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
The Tao of Programming, Book 4, Section 1:
Quote:
A program should be light and agile, its subroutines connected like a string of pearls. The spirit and intent of the program should be retained throughout. There should be neither too little or too much, neither needless loops nor useless variables, neither lack of structure nor overwhelming rigidity.

A program should follow the `Law of Least Astonishment'. What is this law? It is simply that the program should always respond to the user in the way that astonishes him least.

A program, no matter how complex, should act as a single unit. The program should be directed by the logic within rather than by outward appearances.

If the program fails in these requirements, it will be in a state of disorder and confusion. The only way to correct this is to rewrite the program.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Ragnarok June 18th, 2003 04:28 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
Ya know, I was in wal-mart yesterday and I decided to just look through the games section. And they still have MOO3 for $49.95! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I thought about taking it over to someone and letting them know I can get it basically for free on the internet but decided not to. But I noticed they still had a full shelf of the game so it looks like no one was buying it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Rojero June 18th, 2003 05:00 PM
Re: Moo3 is a shareware now
 
You know its not the price of buying it, thank god I had a good friend tell me all about it and I was not duped into buying it. Money doesnt mean as much to me as time. Time in buying it, installing it, playing it for at least a decent amount of time, and feeling ticked off. Yea money is not as important as my time.


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