Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Woah, woah, woah!!!
3) Overlay of CB

That's your problem right there.
Never ***EVER*** overwrite your stock files with mods. (Only the imagepacks, since they are fully backwards compatible with savegames and PBW.)

You can add races to your stock se4\pictures\races folder no problem too, just don't overwrite stuff or put modded AI files into the stock folder. Modded AI files need to go in the se4\modname\pictures\races folders.


(Note: first, you'll probably want to restore your stock files from CD)
Here is how to install and play CB:
Step 1) Extract the zip to your SE4 folder (it will create a CB1.6 folder)
Step 2) Edit path.txt. Change the "path:=none" to "path:=CarrierBattlesV1.6"
Step 3) Run SE4.exe

These same steps apply to 99% of mods out there. Some have wacky directory structures in their zips, but all the major ones will work right.

To change mods, just change the path.txt, and run Se4.exe.

PS:
The mod launcher is overrated. Editing the path.txt yourself builds character http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

AHA! My excessive lvl of geekdom forced me by habit into tweaking the $^(% out of the files themselves!

OK doesn't change the fact that one of the 1.6 downloads has 8 races and another has 17 or so.

I'd like you to consider changing the range of the PBMs to something reasonable like 10. It does a couple of things first it allows the firing ships to not waste supplies by firing a second salvo at range 20 (if they are set to long range bombardment). Currently they fire a round at range 20 which finally hits the target at turn 25 or so and then they lob a second missile that can't possibly make it to the target before turn 30. This change would also have the effect of forcing a PBM armed Bombardment Ship into closer range making it more vulnerable. Alternatively change the reload time to 30 they won't fire a second round. Right now I've changed the range of PBMs to 10 (simulating direct orders to all ship captains not to fire a PBM beyond this range).

What is the point of plasma weapons? Less damage, pathetic range when compared to a Laser Cannon for the same weight. Uptweak them please. Seems their only purpose right now would be to nerf an AI race that was using them.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

The one download is the original 8-races included with the mod, while the second download inclues the 9 races that Atrocities re-worked to be compatible with the CBmod (total of 17).

I'll leave it up to SJ to explain the weapon choices. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

The plasma weapons are cheaper and fire twice as fast. So, where a laser cannon 1 does 340 damage (sans mount) the Plasma Cannon I does 400 damage (sans mount) in the same time period.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

OK but when I evaluate the lethality of a weapon I always use the formula...

Range1 + Range2 + Range3 ... /Weight/ROF = WeaponLethality

If I'm resource pour at that point I scale it for resource costs as well. Some variation of this formula always works for every game I've ever played. Hence the APB is the best weapon in unModded SEIV.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Keep in mind with longer range comes decreased accuracy. The figure is -6% to hit per square in CBmod (10% in stock) so your formula might give too much weight to range.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Definitely over-valuing range there.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Plasma weapons are indeed weak in the early game.

However, later on, they can be quite nice.
My plasma battleships came in extremely handy in this battle:
http://imagemodserver.mine.nu/other/...Tudran2_02.jpg
As a rough count, my (nausea heap) forces numbered approximately 300, while the Pandorans (bluish shiny metal ships) numbered 400 plus significant numbers of fighters.

On the third day of combat that month, the fighter squadrons had long since been wiped out, the missile tubes were completely dry, and only the torpedo boats with damaged engines still had ammo left (since they couldn't get into range and fire)
As the ragged, starving ships flew past the warppoint on yet another attack run, only my Plasmatica class ships were still doing significant damage.
In the end, my Plasma battleships turned a stalemate into a resounding victory.

The optimum range for Heavy Lasers early in the combat is medium to long range, so they stay out of the way of DUC/Plasma ships from both sides. Late in a multi-turn campaign it may better to close in to maximize your damage output since the ammo-using enemy guns will have fallen silent, but if there are any still-live short range DF guns, they will tear you apart.

Overall, heavy lasers are not that great a weapon in most cases. The Plasma shreds ships faster at close range, and Torpedoes deal more damage at long range. If you can afford to specialize your ships, do so.
Heavy lasers are better earlier on with smaller fleets... when optimal range means you can both get in close and demolish a torpedo boat, and stay far away from plasma ships to pick them apart. But if both torpedoes and plasma are present, then heavy lasers don't work so well.
Light laser cannons are always good as point defense however.

The value of lasers is certainly not the sum of damage at each range... after all, you don't get to fire that gun at all ranges each shot. You should consider just one damage value, at the typical range you hope to use it at, to be optimistic.

Using the Laser 1 - Unmounted as in the previous example, that is something lower than 300, every two turns.
A comparable tech level plasma cannon deals 50% more damage while taking the same space. (230 per turn)
So, if you can keep your distance, the laser might win taking no damage. But if you ever get into plasma range, you get roasted alive.

In small, early game combats, the laser ships have plenty of room to move around and avoid getting trapped. As the battles get bigger, weapon range means less and less, until plasma and DUCs become king.
At that point, the only benefit to the long ranged weapons is the fact that you can only fit 50 ships into combat squares right next to enemies... so the number of effective SR ships is limited.

This naturally leads to the re-introduction of good old military manouvers. Pincer attacks, crossing the T, such become quite useful.
After all, if you have surrounded the enemy, then you not only can fit more SR warships on your side of the (circular) front line than the enemy's side... but you also, by default, get to score some easy kills with SR ships vs the lightly armored missile boats typically found in the enemy's rear.

...

So, as for missiles. All missiles have infinite range in CBmod. They can only be locked and launched from range 20 due to vagaries of the SE4 hardcode.

If you wish for your antiplanet ships to hit twice, then you could order them to rush in. Most of the time, you should have warships cleaning up the resistance before your glassers do their work, so there will be little return fire.

...

PS:
The main failing of your formula is that it overvalues range, particularily when the ranges are short, as in CB. A range 2 vs a range 1 weapon is certainly not twice as powerful.
In one-on-one combat, a range 2 vs range 1 battle is mostly equivalent to a range 8 vs range 7.

The size of a battle is also a huge factor in deciding what weapons are best.
For example;
- If you are fighting with just two or three ships per battle, then long range weapons are the best. Cripple them before they get close, then kill at your leisure.
- If you are fighting with just two or three hundred ships per battle, then short range weapons are king. The enemy can't stay out of range, and short range guns deal far more damage. The short range guns shred the enemy before the long range guns can do very much damage.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

Probably a better formula for weapon strength would be:
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>((Range_x*(x*Dist_Accuracy_Penalty))/MaxRange) / (Tonnage * RateOfFire)</pre><hr /> It's not entirely accurate, but it gets closer to what weapon strengths actually are. My personal preference from CB v.1.0 is ships armed mainly with missiles and torpedos, with a few ships using heavy mount DUCs; and my fighters have mixed arms, with a mix of torpedos and lasers for anti-missile duty, and DUCs and torpedos for anti-fighter and some anti-ship support. The anti-missile fighters tend to be launched in groups of 3 with light weapons (has about the firepower to take out one or two missiles per volley), while the anti-fighter/anti-ship tend to be launched in groups of 8 or 10 with heavy weapons (has about the firepower to take out smaller stacks of fighters and do minor damage to ships per volley). Plasma tended to be left out in order to balance costs between minerals and radioactives; enough rads were already going to shields and engines, so the more mineral-heavy DUC, torp, and missile weapons gained dominance, and lasers were left in their cheaper, light forms. I might have opted for light plasma weapons for anti-missile duty, but light lasers offer more versatility, since I have fighters act as a screen, with strategies set to target the farthest missiles targeted on other friendlies, allowing for a wider range of coverage, at the cost of accuracy penalties (I think this is made up for by having a large screen, so what the front misses, the back has a chance to clean up on).

I still need to look more into the balance between weapons in versions 1.4-1.6, see if things are different, but I would imagine I would use Plasma a little in the early game when there isn't as much a drain on radioactives, but switch back to the Missile-Torpedo-DUC triumverate in the mid- to late-game.

Re: Carrier Battles Mod
 

I know what you mean... It is fairly hard to justify the resources to build plasma weapons in bulk.

My ships tend to be really heavily armored, at the expense of everything else, and I build a lot of radioactives extractors, since I know I'll need them... that gives me more wiggle room for installing the high energy toys. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And of course, you can't have your entire fleet be made up of plasma battleships. I had only about 15-20 of them in a fleet of 300. But despite their small numbers, they really cleaned up, scoring at least half the kills in that battle.