Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I managed to divert a few points to skills such as knowledge skills, and tumble... which actually comes in hand some times.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Not all skills are equally useful to all classes, and not all skill ranks are equally useful.

For example - Tumble. If you arrange for a +14 modifier (say, 11 ranks, +3 dex), you lose 1d6 falling damage off of every fall. If that's all you're after, that's as high as you need to go. That same modifier will also let you pass by a single enemy at half-speed without provoking on a roll of 1 (extra opponents add penalties). If you want to go through your opponent's square, you'll want a +24 modifier. If you want to go full speed at all times, you'll need an extra +10 on top of that.

But that's modifier, not ranks. At this level, a dedicated rogue could easily manage the +14 to avoid a single AoO from movement, and lose a d6 of falling damage. Even without maximum ranks. It's not an opposed check. He won't usually need maximum ranks at this point, and so can spare a few ranks that would have gone to Tumble to something else.

Take Bluff - it's an opposed check, but very little actually has Sense Motive in any meaningful amount. Jason's got maximum ranks in bluff - and so can bluff basically anything, due to his Charisma modifier - but so far he's used it for little more than flavoring. He could do without it entire.

Take Spellcraft - it's used to identify spells, many effects of magic, and for a Wizard's spellbook scribing. Kaylin has maximum ranks. But unless you're going to be trying to identify unique magical effects, the highest non-Epic DC is for identifying a 9th level componentless spell after making a saving throw (25+spell level, so 34). Kaylin really only needs a +33 to cover it on a roll of 1. Between her Intelligence and her ranks in Spellcraft, she's got a few ranks to spare from Spellcraft, and will exceed that particular task on a roll of 1.

Heal's skill-listed DC's cap out at 15. It's got different DC's for poison and Disease, but I don't use those overly much, so there's very little point in having a Heal modifier over +14.

Now, if you're planning on useing bluff with Improved Feint, then sure, you want maximum ranks, as your opponent gets to use his BAB. If you expect to take a lot of damage while casting spells, then you want maximum ranks in Concnetration. For most applications of Concentration, though, you won't need more than a +23 modifier to Concnetration (15+spell level for casting defensively; a 9th level spell has a casting defensively DC of 24; +23 makes it on a roll of 1). Opposed skills, such as Spot, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, and Bluff are handy to have maxed out - but that's not most of them. At these levels, you can afford to have a few ranks missing from a non-opposed skill to put into something else, whether just enough to give you a roll (e.g., Kaylin having a couple of ranks in EVERY knoweledge skill on her character sheet) or for flavor (Jason actually has ranks in Craft(Alchemy).

Likewise, if you're planning on taking any skills that you don't need in the middle of combat (such as Heal, in a lot of circumstances) then you don't need enough of a modifier to make the DC minus 1 to make it on a roll of 1 - you need enough of a modifier to make the DC minus 10 (for taking 10); so a 15 for a DC of 25. A high-level Rogue with Skill Mastry gets to select some skills to take 10 on even in the middle of a fight.
No free ranks... but you're perfectly welcome to write into your character background that you won your hometown's woodcarving contest four years running before being banned, and spend lots of time whittling (daggers are cheap, and little chunks of wood can be pulled straight from the forest) regardless of your actual modifier for Craft(Woodworking).

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I see you've finnally found out that BAB is added to feint modifiers... *whistles*

Part of the reason why I haven't maxed out hide or move silently, is because the ranks I have is good enough for what I use it for. Which is usually sneaking around in the bushes at night where I already get insane bonuses from distance.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I actually looked it up after the first time you pulled it off; I've been taking the time to add up the appropriet numbers each time you feint since then.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Heh. Moot point now that Jason has that ghost touch quarterstaff, and that I can be useful without sneak attack.

*repeats "I will not take advantage of my DM" a few thousand times in his mind...*

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ok, well, that's a point.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Don't forget D&D is this saturday.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I'll try not to.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah, about that....
My uncle is coming over to "help" install a gas line (more like it will be the other way around.... as he's the one that used to do it professionally, and I know better than to muck about with something that capable of making a building go BOOM! without someone who knows how to not make the building go BOOM! showing me a few times... and then watching me a few times... and then being available for questions at all times...). Unfortunately, this means I'm liable to have a spot of trouble DMing.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

The next dungeon will naturally be inhabited by stealthy demonic snakes that breathe giant fireballs.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oh, the demonic snakes we can handle.

I just ran accross a variety of kobold on the internet I don't ever want to meet. *Shudder*

Should I change the name of the thread?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah, it's the teleporting demons with nifty stunning attacks that get dicy...... and those are Core. Had fun with the power suits, too - party completely re-geared their defenses in response.

If you like. Makes no real difference to me.

Ah, Tucker's Kobolds? Yeah. That's mean DM tricks. It's actually kinda easy to set up a situation that's nasty if you have complete control over the "battle" location and infinite time to prepare beforehand... you know, if you're the DM. Mostly, though, neigh-unwinnable situations such as that aren't fun.

Of course, a sufficiently high level party can take down Tucker's Kobolds. Teleportation gets the party away to safety (the idea with Tucker's Kobolds mostly precludes anything stopping teleportation). Energy Resistence all around makes those flasks of alchemist's fire, or the burning oil, go fizz. The Fireball spell has a clause which indicates it may very well be useable for bypassing line-of-effect issues and going back through some of those murder holes. With Polymorph, you turn someone into a Dire badger (unless the walls are "solid rock") to tunnel into an area the Kobolds haven't prepared / don't expect; all those well-placed murder holes are quite useless when nobody's on the other side (a Druid-4 could potentially have one as an Animal Companion, a Druid-3 can get one for a few rounds from Summon Nature's Ally II, and a Wiz/Cleric 5 could get a Celestial Dire Badger from Summon Monster III). After 17th, the Wizard Shapechanges into a beholder... for the Disintigrate at will. Not for hitting the kobolds, but to change the terrain. Open up those tunnels, one 10 foot cube a round. Jason can reach through walls. There's actually a lot of different counters. The only problem is that most of them need to be prepped in advance..... but then, some of the counters are stand-by spells, useful for lots of different things.

But those kind of risks for the treasure and XP you're officially supposed to get from a few dozen cr 1/3rd to 2 critters is kinda.... blech.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Tucker's Kobolds are basically a counter for parties that don't use tactics.

Using tactics, the're doable. Counter-seige techniques could work (Advance your own flaming barricades, stuff flaming, smokey debris in the arrow slits, hirelings in a turtle formation)...

Thing is, I think most roleplayers don't really want to bother too much with tactics - Too much like work. And that includes me.

Still, a one-shot scenario to take on Tucker's Kobolds could be fun.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Well, a normal party can arrange to pass reasonably safely through Tucker's Kobold territory... but hurting a significant number of Tucker's Kobolds is difficult.

They're in tunnels too small for your entire party (how many parties are made entirly of Small creatures?).

They're in tunnels that fold back on themselves in ways only Tucker's Kobolds know about... and oh yeah, there's carefully concealed murder holes between them, so at any moment, a kobold can drop, say, a flask of lit oil on top of you. Or just the oil. Or flood a tunnel floor with oil, and drop a tindertwig on top of it.

You find a way to attack them, they retreat. Every time. It's the first thing they do when they find out you have a way to strike back. It's their strategy. One thing doesn't work, they try another. They have dozens. Arrow slits with flaps on their side. You approach, they close the flaps (alternately, they fire at you in three kobold teams: the first readies an action to close the hatch after the archer fires through; the second readies an action to fire through the hatch after it opens; the third opens the hatch - open, fire, close - all on the same initiative - oh yeah, and the hatch is sized so the kobolds, with their small selves and their slight build, can just barely get a mediocre shot off - so they deny line of effect for spellcasting even while "open" and still grant the kobolds cover. Oh, and they communicate, and have a watcher - you're on one side of the room, it's the covers on the other side that are open; the ones on that side have largish rocks laid against them, and are latched/barred from the other side). Rooms that cave in when a kobold watching from another room pulls on a particular rope (cave in rules are nasty). Rooms that seal up, air-tight, so you suffocate over the course of a few hours. Slides coated in grease, that end in pits, with pet gelatenous cubes at the bottom. They harry you constantly - you can't rest or stop to prepare spell slots left blank (unless you pull one of the tricks, or a variation on it, listed earlier).

Now, resist energy will take care of the various fire-based tricks... except using up the air in the room. Protection from Arrows will take care of the shots for a time. Very, very little will deal with a cave in. Almost nothing deals with the small sized tunnels. Oh yeah, this is done by 10 CR 1/3 kobolds, 5 CR 1/2 kobolds, and 1 CR 1 kobold. They had several months to prepare. Officially, that's an encounter level of 6. And it's done in such a way that officially, a 1st level party of four gets 513 xp each. As does a 6th level party of four. And they have a pretty good chance of taking down an 8th or 10th level party (a 10th level party of four would officially get 0 xp; an 8th level party of four would officially get 50 xp each).

Sure, it's realistic guerrila tactics... but it's also mean, unbalancing, DM tricks.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

And once your counter-siege halfling units have taken the entrance, you smoke them out.

Counter-siege techniques will work for invading the place, too.

Hire all halflings, fortify every room you take, slowly shut them out of their place. Most expensive technique - turns it into a resource/people endurance contest.

Or, to pull a Salvatore, find an underground build-up of explosive gas, pipe it into the Kobold tunnels (Dwarven miners should be able to do both) and light the place up.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Also, I've had late nights the last few days, so I'm going to be a bit late getting to bed. And thus, probably a bit late getting up.

(Er, again. Sorry in advance. I just sleep late saturday.)

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Though if our party does encounter those kobolds, Kibin will probally just be able to talk it out.

So... is D&D today going to be late, or something?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Sorry, by "spot of trouble" I meant "unlikely to be able to at all". Sorry for the confusion.

Ah, and I see I didn't tell the server not to turn on. Fun.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Game tomorrow?

If there is, I'll need to miss an hour or so at some point - friend's computer is having 'fun' and has quite a bit of weekend work that needs doing.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yes, game tomorrow.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Good morning!

Server online.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server back up after that crash or whatever.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server closed.

One rather powerful black blob convinced to be a good person... for now, at least. Call it a CR 20 diplomatic encounter.

One CR 20 Pit Fiend run off.

So for the Kibin at 20th, that's 2000 xp.
Jason and Elorin at 19th, that's 2850 xp.
For Kaylin, Me'hive, and Katsuro at 18th, that's 3600 xp.

Vote tied between Kibin and Katsuro; bonus 1500 xp each.

And nobody has yet weighed the big irregular ball of dirty silver yet. Or even moved it from it's resting spot.

Who roleplayed best this session?
Log hopefully attached.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Whee, XP... my RP vote goes to Me'hive, mostly for the blob stuff http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Seconded - What I saw of it.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Vampiric Touch, what his gauntlets have, only affect a living creature touched don't they?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yes.

And those don't work. The closest Raw item is a weapon with the Bodyfeeder property (Psionic weapon enhancement), which, at a minimum cost of 32,300 gp (which would be for a +1 Bodyfeeder Club) you get:
Has to deal with full AC, and needs a lot of feat invenstment to really make worthwhile (or expenditure of other things - like more gold for the Keen property - a +1 Keen Bodyfeeder Falcion, for instance, at 50,375 gp; or a +1 Ghost Touch Brilliant Energy Keen Bodyfeeder Falcion at 200,375 gp) to make critting a reasonable proposition. And even then, you need to have a high strength and lay in lots of Power Attack for it to really be worthwhile. And even then, you've only got one hit's worth at any given time.

Those gauntlets are very much broken for a build built for them. And he never listed any price breakdowns.

Consider what those do for a fighter who picks up the two-weapon fighting chain and Improved Unarmed Strike... and Combat Expertiese, as he only has to deal with touch AC anyway, which is normally pretty low.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Just so I know for future reference, if I shapechanged into a Beholder, I'd get one eye ray attack of each type per round, correct?

Also, can I choose in which order they're used? (i.e. Finger of death, disintegrate, stone to flesh, if those don't work *then* try the Charms and whatnot, instead of the order they're listed)

The other thing I was wondering was if I changed shape into something incorporeal such as a dread wraith, there'd be nothing to stop me from casting a spell so long as it didn't have a material component, correct? I'm thinking that though the verbal component has to be uttered in a loud voice, but Jason doesn't seem to have troubles with that...

Ugh, that meteor storm *hurt*...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Beholder: Basically, although there's a limit to how many you can target at one critter (three, I think, I'd have to look it up) - so the when you drug someone, give them the finger, and try to rip them into atoms, and they still don't get it, you can't try the others until next round.

Jason's corporeal on the Ethereal Plane. He's on both the Ethereal and the material, and as he's corporeal on one, he can still cast normally. Creatures that lack something normally required for spellcasting that can cast spells do so anyway, substituting body movements for gestures, using components that are simply in contact with their body, and replacing standard verbal components with other noises as appropriet, similar to a Wildshaped Druid with natural spell - so the Couatl can cast spells with Somatic components despite not having hands. However, like the Wildshaped Druid, when you change your form, you don't pick up that natural bypass automatically. In general, if it's got an Intelligence score above 3, and doesn't say it can't speak (it is possible to use a double-negative properly, really!), I'll let you use Verbal Components. For Somatic, I'll be looking at the picture of the critter - wraiths don't have proper hands, sorry. Material and Focus components will be right out in most cases, as they will have a strong tendency to merge.

And that was with passing one or two of your saves, and not being the target... just picture what would have happened if you had done the most damage to it recently....

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Sounds fair enough. Thanks for the info.

I shudder to think of what would happen if that were the case...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yeah. Hmm... he still had a use of his Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Fireball).... oh well.

X/Day abilities are hard to manage properly, as a DM - on the one hand, a beasty facing dangerous opponents will burn through them. On the other, you get annoyed when a PC starts spell-dumping.....


Oh, and game tomorrow, unless I've gottem my schedual off.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server online today (10/21/2006)

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I'm sorry, but I've got a bad cold at the moment and don't really feel like playing.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hope you get to feeling better.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server closed.

One CR 20 Pit Fiend Banished (party found out that Wish can be a MEAN spell - the hard way), one CR 16 Horned Devil likewise, one CR 20 fake Wizard slain (and loot collected, but not identified - three iron rods (two with engravings of a bear, one with an engraving of a cat) and a spell components pouch). Net gain of 10 5k diamonds into Elorin's Inventory (group loot, for later True Ressurections), 66,666 gold pieces per party member from scavenged silver, and Shanhara slain.

XP:
Kibin (20th): 5,375
Elorin (19th; halved for not having player present): 5,375
Kaylon, Katsuro (18th): 13,075

Log hopefully attached.

3,000 xp to Me'Hive if he ever happens to return, for the roleplay vote.

Who roleplayed best this session?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

*hi-fives all around*

I vote Katsuro for RP.

Kibin and Katsuro, sorry about not realising the Wish thing :/

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

RP vote seconded, all in favor say aye.

EDIT: Also, I claim several things in the spell component pouch...

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

What, you're hoping to garner a little ruby dust?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

*reads the log*

I'll add my vote for Katsuro. Of course, now he needs to come up with a new oath in the next 10 weeks or so (in game).

BTW narf, you need to remember your Withstand ability the next time you're caught in a Fireball or Meteor Swarm. I'm sure your concentration check is a lot higher than your reflex save. Also, you should definitely get a Ring of Evasion, as Withstand specifically states that ability does work in combination with it and it'll make you almost immune to most AoE damage spells.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

No, not ruby dust, more like the material components for several spells that I may be able to use.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Thanks, everyone. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And that leaves me with 155,275XP, which means Katsuro goes up a level.

Oops. Totally forgot about Withstand - And my Concentration score is much higher.

Question about epic level - Can I extend the Kensai class further than 10th level if we go into epic levels? I recall there are rules for that, but my head hurts right now.

As for now, I think another level of fighter. To bad I didn't make him an elf or half-elf; I could have gone for Arcane Archer, too.

Ah well. Too much munchkin is bad for role-playing.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Got the expanded psionic handbook yesterday. A couple of those prestige classes are overpowered - For example, there's one that protects you from all scrying and mental effects, which isn't so bad, except it even blocks wish and miracle if you use them to scry for the character or try to affect the character mentally.

That's too much, in my opinion.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Perchance you're reffering to... (quotes taken from the SRD, so this is fine):

?

Well, compare to the magic spell (again, from the SRD):
... which is also in the 3.5 Player's Handbook.

It foils Wish... but only in the cases of: (a) Affecting the subject's mind or (b) gathering information about the subject. Using the safe portion of Wish that lets the Wisher move anyone from anywhere to anywhere? Not stopped. Wishing the cieling would fall down and kill the Mind Blanked subject? Not stopped (but not on safe list, either....). Wishing the subject would die? Not stopped (but not on the safe list, either). Wishing to know where in the multiverse the subject is? Stopped (but you can, on a failed save and after beating any SR, move the subject to a chosen point in the multiverse.... "regardless of local conditions").

Edit: Ah, no, you're reffering to the (Illithid) Slayer PrC... which has it's flavortext removed, but is otherwise in the SRD:

Considering that the earliest a character could get that would be 13th level, and that a normal Psion could have the same effect minus the Focused requirement by spending a few power points each day and a 7th level power known, not as overpowered in it's context as you might think.

Edit 2: Especially considering that there's lots of really useful things you can do with a Psionic Focus, such as taking 15 on a Concentration check, or applying metapsionics, or applying such nifty feats as Aligned Attack, Deep Impact, Fell Shot, Focused Sunder, and so forth. And some feats, such as Ghost Attack and Up the Walls only work when Psionically focused.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

That's true - And you could always wish it suppressed. Thanks.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

You could always shoot yourself with a dimensional lock before bed.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I just got a reminder e-mail; I'm scheduled to take an SAT on Saturday morning. It starts at 8:00 so I'll probably miss a few hours of the session. I may be able to come, depending on how well my brain functions after the test.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Bah, it exercises your brain, it doesn't fry it out. Pretty easy, too, if you don't count the usual trigonometry at the end of the math section...

And that during the ACTs the gods of fate were cruel, and made the experimental section math, too... but my brain recovered within less than an hour after the test.

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

And incidentally, you lose psionic focus when you're knocked unconscious. Or, say, sleeping?

Re: OT: Narf has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ah, yes; session in about 13 hours, 9 minutes.