Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

On the other hand, a knight hitting with a lance, or even spells like Gifts from Heaven or Soul Slay, won't deal more than 6 points' worth of damage, since the form changes after that.

It works out okay, hydras are now considered much more powerful than they used to be.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

This is completely WAD.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Bah ... I just got killed by the IMMORTALITY 001 bug. Some extra weirdness happened when I had Phoenix Pyre up with my immortal Phoenix: the third time he blew up, he somehow made a copy of himself and there were two Phoenixes on the battlefield. I sent the turn to Illwinter.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

That's a good thing that you sent a file. The bug has been around for ages, but it's so rare it has been hard to catch.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I'm just curious if this would consider this a bug/exploit. I equip a Jotun Skratti with a Black Heart. Sneak him in his wolf form to an enemy province, along with a scout to carry some extra items. (The stealthy form only keeps the two misc slots). Next turn, I change to a werewolf, transfer the items over and assassinate a leader.

I thought that after the assassination I would see him attack the rest of the PD and/or whatever army remained in the enemy province, since the werewolf form doesn't have stealth. However, nothing happened. At the beginning of the next turn, the skratti keeps the "hide" command and appears to be free to move away, assassinate again,or even stay hidden.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

WAD, in my opinion.

If you think about it, a stealthy preacher in a province isn't giving the 'hide' order - he's preaching.

Its my personal opinion that stealth is only checked at specific occassions. Off the top of my head, when you sneak *into* a territory, when destealth is checked by the province, and when new units take control of territory. Also, when you have a stealthy succubus, with stealthy troops, and she succeeds and flies off - her troops *will* be discovered.

It seems to me that on the occasions that the stealth check is made, that it just goes against the stealth rating of the unit.
Aka the Destealth of the province compared to the stealth of the unit - its irrespective of the order your stealthy unit is giving.

I've often thought it would be cool if a stealthy scout could use a lab stealthily....

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

More on the item slots bug:

I made an Abysian Warlord (#119) my Prophet, turning him into a War Master (#118).

He got a "lost an arm" affliction in the second month of the game. He wasn't wielding any extra equipment, just the 2 axes (#17) he gets by default.

But when he "lost an arm", instead of being reduced to attacking with just one ax, he's got two fist (#92) attacks instead.

But wait, it gets weirder!

In the fourth month, there was an arena tournament, and he beat up some poor old guy and won the Champion's Trident. Which is two-handed. But he's now wielding it. But he doesn't get a trident attack. He's got one fist (#92) weapon now, instead of two.

He does have the quickness bonus from wielding the trident.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I encountered the bug with globals not going away after the nation is defeated today in an EA game against t'ien chi. A somewhat frustrating occurence of it as they had cast wrath of god and I only have lizard shamans for astral....

But anyway, they had cast it with the master with the iron crutch. I killed him at least twice in their territory. One of the times was in the capital, while I had it under siege and I don't precisely remember but I MAY have taken the fort on that turn. In any case I don't think it ever counted him as actually having died, though I never saw him again. Unfortunately I don't have turn files of that time period, I was figuring the global would drop when I killed t'ien chi off and just brushed it off. I must be too used to playing MMOs.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

vfb, the item slots behavior with your Warmaster is, as strange as it sounds, WAD. That's because a battleaxe is a 2-handed weapon. You can assign multiple two-handed weapons to a unit during creation and it won't check number of arms until you get the Lost an Arm affliction, at which point it checks that for all of the weapons. Hence the two fists. And the Champion's Trident is also 2-h, plus it has hard-coded behavior, so you get the item but the checks apply to whether the unit gets the weapon. For a normal 2-h item, the unit could not even find it.

Known issue, globals staying up after a nation has been defeated. I've sent files to Illwinter in the past, but it has not been resolved. The reason why the global didn't dispel when the Master of the Iron Crutch was killed in combat in its own dominion is that it's an immortal unit, hence it does not count as killed unless it dies outside its native dominion and thus globals it has cast are not dispelled either.

So this is possibly a confluence of WAD behavior and an existing bug.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

It's not a battleaxe, it's #17, an Axe, and it's one-handed according to the DB (thanks for the DB Edi!). The Warlord (#119) in the DB is also listed as wielding 2 Axes: wpn 1 and wpn 2.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I'm aware it was a known issue, I was just hoping there was a particular correlation between immortal ritual casters and globals not dropping that would solve the bug :) Specifically my point about the master w/the iron crutch was that having killed him and taken the fort in seperate battles on the same turn the game didn't think he actually was dead, which may or may not be a completely seperate bug.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

rdonj, maybe. It'd be nice if the defeated nation globals one was solved first. Then we would have more conclusive premises to go from.

vfb, the Warlord has twin axes (17), but when prophetized and turned into a Warmaster (different unit), it also changes the axes to Battleaxes (18), which is a 2-h weapon. Make a test game with Abysia and prophetize the warlord, then pay attention to the details of the changed form. In that game you can't take a look because the trident and the affliction prevent you. As illogical as it sounds in this case, it's WAD.

A warmaster is so tough that what everyone else requires two hands to wield, he swings around one-handed. At least until he loses an arm, at which point I guess he overbalances or something and has to drop both of them... ;)

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Thanks Edi! Sorry, I only had one Warmaster, and I didn't notice the weapon change because I'd already lost the arm, overbalanced, and dropped all my battleaxes. I was looking at the recruitable Warlord. My mistake. :banghead

Thanks for taking the time to explain it to me!

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Pardon if this has been reported already, but an immortal unit casting a BE and then getting killed (at least in friendly dom) results in the BE staying up until the end of the battle. I would think that having your body be utterly destroyed would be slightly more detrimental to the concentration required to maintain a spell than, say, running away, but what do I know? =)

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I think that's probably a side effect of an immortal in friendly dominion getting whacked not setting the kill flag or retreat flag for that unit than anything else. Interesting cosmic loophole, though.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

not sure if this is a bug or not... noticed that boar warriors don't get any extra armor for added berserk from a n9 bless... Specifically n9e9 boar warriors should be protection 22, (or 23 for the leader) but seem to top out at 20....is this WAD?

Given how weak the n9 power is I was rather disappointed, since I thought I had found a way to make it mildly useful.

thanks for your time,


Rabe

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Haven't checked the math for the Boar Warriors, but actual protection is some kind of average of natural protection and armor. Berserk adds to the natural protection, but since it's averaged the full bonus doesn't appear.

I suspect that's what's happening with the Boar Warriors.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

It has a to do with the way natural protection stacks with armor. The benefit is not exactly additive. As far as I can tell the protection from a berserked E9N9 boar warrior is correct at about 20.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Poisoned weapons cause poison even when Mirror Image negates the damage from the hit. This might be true for all secondary effects; that is, a hit is a hit even if mirror image negates the damage.



2368 striking with weapon Thorn Staff. att35 def15
hitloc Werewolf strikes Illusionist wl4 diff-4 -> 4
hitunit 2368 2476 dmg5 spec3 ba4
damage 28 on Illusionist, spec0x3 ba4
Mirror Image negated 28 pnts of dmg
hitloc Werewolf strikes Illusionist wl0 diff-1 -> 1
hitunit 2368 2476 dmg15 spec8320 ba1


For comparison, here's the next attack.


2368 striking with weapon Bite. att23 def12
hitloc Werewolf strikes Illusionist wl0 diff-1 -> 4
hitunit 2368 2476 dmg2 spec136314881 ba4
damage 31 on Illusionist, spec0x8200001 ba4
Mirror Image negated 31 pnts of dmg

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Bug from user point of view, WAD from game mechanics point of view. Weapon with secondary effect hits unit, mirror image negates damage. Weapon secondary effect (another weapon in itself) then hits the unit and effect is applied since mirror image is no longer in existence. Don't know if that can be changed, but we can ask about it. Might require some more procedures to be written into the hit calculations, though, so it could get complex.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Is that correct, Edi?
I thought mirror image either negated the damage or was dispelled.
Actually if that second attack is the next attack in the same battle the mirror image is still in place, since it negates the bite as well.

What I thought happened is that the poison bypasses the mirror image and then dispels it when the first damage from the poison is applied, at the start of the next turn.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Yes, the poison damage dispels the mirror image next turn.

It's hard to fix without changing how Mirror Image works in the mechanics, and because both the spell and Glamoured units are often seen, fixing it might cause more trouble than leaving it as-is.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Two little bugs:

1) I am sieging a castle. On the map I see "Magic Site" without details. On the F1 screen I see exactly what the sites are.

2) Same province. I can't assassinate anyone in the castle--the order simply doesn't appear. Bug or WAD?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

1) Known and listed, no idea on priority but probably very low

2) Presumably WAD. I know if I was under siege I'd post a ton of sentries to prevent any enterprising assassin from sneaking inside the walls.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Maybe so, but the person in the castle can assasinate people *outside* the castle.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

But I could assassinate there before I owned it. They weren't on patrol then so I must have been able to assassinate into the castle.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Before you laid siege to it, yes.

I know if I were in a castle that had been laid siege to, I would declare a state of martial law, and I'd expect that would make it very hard for anyone to operate covertly, let alone even get -over- the wall in the first place.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Getting lots of crash bugs (post patch to 3.21) using CBM, the message is something like:

Nagot got Fell!!!

myloadmalloc: cant load /mod/worthyheroes1.8/dogfriend.tga


the precise syntax is difficult to derive because of ellipses and a non copyable dialog box.

Anyone else experiencing this and/or have a fix?


Will amend this if I can get a more precise error code.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

In regards to the assassination issue I'm sure it is working as designed. When you siege a castle you technically own the province. This means that all random events go to the sieging nation. The sieging nation gets to control the tax rate and they also have the ability to declare prophets. All of these are abilities that only work when the province is yours.

Assassination is designed to only work when in a province controlled by the enemy. I'm sure the ownership of the province is the flag that decides if the ability is active. It would logically be a pain to program assassination for the sieging faction as this is a very special case.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

While I agree that this is likely the issue here, it wouldn't be that illogical to have assassinations work the same way like remote spells.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I had a province go from 44 resources to 0 resources with no apparent explanation between turns in an MP game. No events, no change in population, no unrest. Just my resources vanished. And it was a province i had built a lab/temple to recruit indies. Can't do that anymore...

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Did you build another castle adjacent to the province?



Also:

The new Jomonese spells Jigami and Mori-no-kami, both appear to be available to all nations. This seems unintended.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

That's a new bug then.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Doh...yes-didn't realize there was a movement vector. False alarm. Been having other wierd things happen like random pearls appearing in another game and ability to summon jomonese uniques so I have been overly alert.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

No biggie. Was referring to the unrestricted Jomon summons, not the castle thing, DC. I figured it was probably a new fort causing things. I know I've messed up enough times that way.

"No more enchantresses for you, Awakened Lord. The governor of province X built a fortress and is now taxing all the rest of our meager resources..."

"What?! Off with his head!"

*demolish badly placed fortified city*

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Hehe, exactly. I need to enforce a self-ban on posting before I drink the morning coffee to avoid idiotic posts.

Anyway, that game has been one endless string of bad luck and blunders. As for the fort, we'll just use the philosophy of Kramer(from Seinfeld) and of every US bank and just "take a write off".

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

While I agree that this is what's going on that doesn't mean it's right. Checking for a siege situation wouldn't be hard.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Siege situations are actually more complex than that. There are three types of conditions on provinces with regard to this:

1) Full ownership. Your province, no other factors
2) No ownership. Fully independent or full ownership by another nation. Stealth units may be present.
3) Partial ownership. Under siege.

Assassination can apparently only happen when you have no ownership. Some events may only happen when you have full ownership. Some may happen even when ownership is not full. E.g. PD events go to sieger, indie attack events happen against the besieged and thus take place only when the siegers have left or are victorious and the ownership is no longer contested. This last one looks like a bug, but is consistent with event mechanics and conditions. It is classified as a bug and probably needs some adjustment of event trigger conditions, because it used to work just fine in Dom2.

As far as tax rate etc, KO posted once that the besieging army gets tax rate minus castle admin value of the tax money and the besieged side gets castle admin value in money. The besieging side controls the tax rate, though. This also explains why even when your last castle is sieged and you have no other provinces, your income is not 0, as I have personally seen in a vanilla MP game.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I just had a barbarian chief fight a siren in the arena. The siren cast Freezing Touch on the barbarian chief, for 9HP of damage, and the barbarian chief did not berserk.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Damage doesn't always cause berserk.

Edi: Assassins from an under siege castle can target siegers.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Thanks Sombre!

I'd never noticed it before, it was just this time there were only the two units in battle. I just looked up berserk in the manual and it says that the unit has to pass a morale check versus 12 for berserk to trigger. So, not bug at all!

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Hmm so if they have high morale are they more or less likely to go berserk?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

More likely to berserk with high morale. If the manual is right, a morale 10 unit like my barbarian chief will only have a 30% chance to berserk from each hit. Of course, whenever I attack barbarians, it seems the chiefs always berserk when they get hit. :(

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Is there any probability units can ignore their scripts ?
I just had a cavalry unit with "attack cavalry" scripted going on to attack infantry, ignoring the ennemy cavalry outflanking it. A very bad deal indeed ^^

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Were there other cavalry on the other side of those infantry? Perhaps light cavalry with bows in the back? They randomly acquire -any- cavalry unit as target, and run straight to them, attacking anyone in their way. It can be a little annoying, but we all get the same odds, so it works out. :p

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

OK, checked and... confirmed. There was one cav behind the infantry screen.
I just forgot how stupid can be the AI :doh:

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I was playing Pythium for the first time and sent a unit of mixed Hydras to conquer a independent province. For some reason the commander charged in with the hydras and got killed by the poison fumes. I thought I just misscripted the commander but it happened again with two other commanders that I had scripted for 'stay behind troops'.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Stay behind troops just does that: He stays directly behind them. Which means as close as possible. You should have scripted him to "Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Hold, Stay behind troops" with as much space between the Hydras and him or the better and obvious choice to send a poison immune commander.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Alternatively, give the commander some archers as well, and he'll stay behind them instead. Even a single archer is sufficient, unless it loses an arm, and thus its bow, and charges.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Ah, yes. Can be any single troops set to Guard Commander, I think?