Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Technically, RAW, that works, but it's not balanced.

Said Ape (with the 40 gp leather Barding) would be looking at AC 19, 2 Claws +9 for 1d6+6 and Bite +4 for 1d6+3, saves +7/+8/+3, HP 6d8+15 (42), a bonus feat, and natural reach.

The DMG NPC Barbarian 5, when raging (which he can only do twice per day), is AC 16, Greataxe +12 for 1d12+7, saves +7/+3/+4, HP 53.

Ape hits the barbarian on 7/7/12; average damage per round, ignoring crits, of 14.875; the raging barbarian is expected to go down in about 3.5 rounds.

Barbarian hits the Ape on a 7, for an average damage per round, ignoring crits, of 11.4; the Ape is expected to go down in about 3.7 rounds.

If the NPC barbarian makes the Ape his dodge target, and/or uses the ideal amount of Power Attack, the barbarian will barely win in a straight-up slugfest (although it will be close). But the Ape has evasion, natural reach, a higher Dexterity modifier, and a better grapple check (which makes the Greataxe useless); in a close-quarters fight, the Ape is probably going to win. In a distance fight, the Barbarian is liable to do better thanks to the longbow.

Neither case includes the Druid having any impact on the encounter (Magic Fang, Barkskin, and so on). A class feature should not be matching an entire class at it's specialty with one feat added.

Edit:
That said, in filling multiple roles, we will be stretching the two actual characters, and it'd be a useful advantage.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Nice analysis. Guess I'll leave it up to NA if that's going to be allowable on balance, then.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Well, I haven't worked out encumberance yet, *should* be light for everyone; otherwise finished character sheet attached

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I think that I'll rule that the natural bond feat raises your effective druid level for bonuses, up to a maximum of your character level. Much like practiced spellcaster.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Okay, is that before, or after, the level adjustment for the advanced animal companions? Would the Natural Bonded Ape of a pureclassed Druid-5 have 4 HD, or 6? That would be worth swapping out Spell Mastry.

Edit:
If it ends up with the 6 HD, Natural Bond version attached.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

It would be before the level adjustment of advanced animal companions. Giving you normal animal companion progression for up to three levels of another class. So useless unless you have a prestige class that has no animal companion progression, or another class. Like practiced spellcaster.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yay, Friday and done with classes. I'm exhausted so I need a bit of sleep, but I'll try to have a character fleshed out soon. Already did most of the stat-work and whatnot, but I need to juggle inventory.

Oh, Jack, do you use a program to generate those text charsheets? Those are really neat.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Okay; sticking with Spell Mastry. Final version, then; complete with Height, Weight, encumbrance listing, and languages.

Edit:
Yep. Notepad. Which is why there is occasionally an update error (something changed in one place, but not another).

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

All right, here's my sneak/healbot.
http://www.thetangledweb.net/profiler/view.php?id=12827

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Your Ape's AC should be 16, Touch 11, Flat-Footed 14; you removed the Shared Mage Armor but didn't change the resulting AC.

Copy/Paste is fun, but it can get you in trouble.

We have the same AC! And comperable attack rolls! Nifty.

I haven't rolled them yet, but I suspect I'll end up with more HP. Bizzare.

Oh! I forgot about the Size bonus to attack rolls! (not that the +1 will matter too much, for... 1d6 damage) Updated character sheet attached.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

...two druids.

Well, THIS is going to be interesting. At least you have four party members now, heh.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Oops. Fixed Ape AC.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Two and two-halves, anyway. Look on the bright side - we'll both follow the same plot hooks, for the most part. With a class in common, they can be from the same enclave.

Ageun and Alever won't usually be apart from each other; in most cases, they'll pretty much be treated as one unit (the joys of the Ride skill) including acting on the same initiative.

Hmm... only one level away from an extra feat for the Ape. Which is better - Combat Reflexes, Improved Natural Armor, Multiattack, Improved Natural Attack, or Improved Grapple? Decisions, decisions....

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Improved grapple is always good, people hardly ever use it. Of course, multiattack is even better if you have a lot of secondary attacks, as a 15% increase to hit is great.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hmm... does the Ape still need Improved Unarmed Strike as a requirement for Improved Grapple, or do the natural attacks cover it?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

By the rules you need improved unarmed strike, but I'll waiver that since it does make sense.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Maybe one ape goes for Multiattack and the other for Improved Grapple? Grapple works great for me since it makes sure they stay still long enough to be sudden striked.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Don't forget that it denies them their Dex bonus to AC vs. everyone NOT in the grapple.

Hmm... actually, I don't want to think too hard about what happens to Ageun if Alever is grappling, so strike that option (for mine, anyway).

Number crunching....
Vs. an AC 15 opponent...
Multiattack: Hits on a 6/6/8 for 18.475 damage per round
Improved Natural Attack (Claw) hits on a 6/6/11 for 21.25 damage per round (assuming Improved Natural Attack (Claw) affects both claws); 6/6/11 for 16.3 damage per round if it only affects one.
Weapon Focus (Claw): Hits on a 5/5/11 for 18.45 damage per round.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server online.

Hmm... breakfast....

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Uh.... can you update to the latest version of OpenRPG, 1.7.1? Can't seem to see your server...

EDIT: Nevermind, found it.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Violist?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Aw, damn, overslept.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server closed. One insectoid Ogre killed, one driving off. Kibin found out that DMing is difficult at any level (which is a good lesson for a player - don't make the DM's job any harder than it already is). Currently resting in an Extended Rope Trick 30 feet above the treetops.

Negligible loot of two Large Longspears and one Large greatclub.

Any Xp for the session?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

They're HUGE longspears and greatclubs. The ogres were wielding it as a four-handed weapon, I believe.

A CR of 5, so... 1600 XP, apparently.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

How many arms did those things have? Using four to carry the weapons, at least two to climb, plus legs....

So a grand total of 60 gp worth of loot (30, after selling). Lost money on that battle, with the charges from the Wand of Cure Light. Oh well.

Advancement Planning:
Would Improved Natural Attack affect just one claw, or both?

Possible Revisioning / later characters:
How reasonable would it be to gestalt my Familiar and Animal Companion (HP = Animal Companion HD, or Master's, whichever's more, HP = Half masters or calculated for companion with appropriet level of Druid Bonuses, whichever's more, skill ranks = that of a Companion, or the master's, whichever's more, natural armor adjustment that of a familiar, or the animal companion with Druid Bonuses, whichever's more, Int that of a familiar, Druid-speed replacement, and so on), similiar to the Companion Familiar feature of the Arcane Hierophant?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Improved natural attack would improve all natural claw attacks, all natural bite attacks... just choose one.

Merging familiar and animal companion would be reasonable enough.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Let's see....

Wizard-5 Druid-2 (5-3 for Ape companion) would make...

APE
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 4d8+11 (34 hp - rolled better than 1/2 master HD)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) (30 base, +10 Longstrider), climb 30 ft.
Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural (+3 Base, +3 Familiar), +4 Shared Mage Armor (+2 Leather Barding)), touch 11, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+12
Attack: Claws +7 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+5) and bite +2 melee (1d6+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: -
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, Link, Share Spells, Alertness, improved evasion, empathic link, Deliver touch spells, Speak with master
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +6, Will +5 (uses master's base Will save of +4)
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 15, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 7
Skills: Climb +14, Listen +6, Spot +11, Knoweledge(Basically all)+0, Survival +7, Ride +12, Handle Animal +6, Spellcraft +7, Concentration +10
Feats: Alertness, Toughness
Treasure: Large Leather Barding, Exotic Military Saddle, Saddlebags, 2 Spell Components Pouches, 2 Holly and Mistletoe, 2 Blank Spellbooks, 1 Main spellbook, Small Traveler's Outfit, Small Cold Weather Outfit, Empty Bucket, 50 foot hemp rope, 5 foot hemp rope, 15 foot hemp rope, 30 foot hemp rope
Environment: Warm forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or company (3-5)
Challenge Rating: 2
Advancement: 5-8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: -
These powerful omnivores resemble gorillas but are far more aggressive; they kill and eat anything they can catch. An adult male ape is 5-1/2 to 6 feet tall and weighs 300 to 400 pounds.
Combat
Skills: Apes have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.
Encumberance: 59.635 (rider), 116 (stuff), 175.635 lbs total
Light Load: 306 lbs, Medium Load: 612 lbs, Heavy Load 920 lbs
Languages: Speak With Master
Height: 5'7"
Weight: 372 lbs

Tack on a simple Disguise Self for going into town and he looks like a quiet half-orc or something....

Muwhahaahaha....

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40888

The result of me being bored, and doing a thorough comparison of two-weapon fighting and two-handed weapons.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

...See, things like that are why I burnt out on D&D. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Pff, you're not the only one who tries not to engage in that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Ultimately, the best choice, of course, is what fits the character better...

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Yup. There's some REALLY cool ideas in there, such as someone drawing a single katana and leap attacking/shock trooper someone, then next round take out a second katana and start kicking butt...

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

La la la... server online. I do have the right week, Right?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Just thought I'd post a relevent link - Weregeek

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ah well, server closed.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Er... I think it's the right week...

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Was. Got bored and gave up after a little over an hour.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Poked Null on IRC earlier this morning, but I think he went away for an extended period of time right about then.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server online this 5/5/2007

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Server closed. Four insectoid ogres defeated, three permitted to live. Three coppers found, as well as some more Huge Greatclubs - settled on 20 gp, 32 lbs each. We're basically at light weight limit on them. Pending big battle with big baddie.

Any XP?

Edit: Right; plus four gems of unknown value.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

I believe you went through two CR 5 encounters, so XP accordingly. 1,600 XP each, I think?

You also got four gems of undetermined value.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Mixed news:

Good: My sister is getting married.

Bad: On the 19th. I'll be at the wedding, not my computer. Server is schedualed on my computer, and can run without me. I'd advise creating a room (permitted on my server) so you can get the room's root password for assigning players/DM.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

The problem with that is that we have only one person... and one person can't do a whole lot of stuff.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ooh, wedding. Have fun!

Maybe we can push the session back a week?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Hey Jack, out of curiosity, did you use elite array for statting out the various wizards/sorcerer NPCs of yours?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

When I fully statted out the NPC's by hand, yes, I used the elite array.

Most of the time, I either used a random character generator for the base and rolled until I got something that wasn't useless, or used the party's Wizard stats.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

hmm, just realised, as it so happens, I'm playing in a concert on the 19th anyways.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

So, session tomorrow or week after tomorrow?

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Well, tomorrow I am helping my recently-married sister to move to Canada.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Always a good choice.

* Leaves the whole question of 'What is a good choice' ambiguous.

Re: OT: Null has gone looney and wants to GM.
 

Ooo, I just had a good idea for sorcerers. Allowing them to use quickened spells as a swift action if they cast another spell in the same round, applying the time increase to the non-quickened spell.

Sorcerer casts non-metamagiked spell as a full-round action instead of a standard action. Sorcerer can then use a quickened spell with the appropriate level increase as a swift action.