Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Email him and see what happens..its not unreasonable to expect a decent pace. Otherwise you end up with something like this..

Phoenix-D def. Chocolatefro
49 turns
start Dec 23,2002
end May 7,2003

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Parabolize,

Yes, it looks that way on my side of the map too. I'm a gas race, are you? I figure as long as we are both gas, then the map is balanced. If you are not, I'm probably screwed.

taterbill

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Parabolize,

Yes, it looks that way on my side of the map too. I'm a gas race, are you? I figure as long as we are both gas, then the map is balanced. If you are not, I'm probably screwed.

taterbill </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">H2 rock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
but I will restart if you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I suggest a restart w/ a reqular map . But it's up to you.

FYI I didn't notice you Posts until now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks, Electrum, but I've already computed the scores and made the adjustments. Now go kick some butt! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Loosing because of the map is rarely fun.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I DO have fun playing, win or lose. When I make my own mistakes and lose, I have only myself to blame and yet, I will most assuredly have had fun. I've posted before about games I was currently playing in about the amount of fun I was having, win or lose. However, when I perceive their is a balance problem in the map, I think my time would be spent better doing other things instead of trying to overcome (what appears to be) an insurmountable problem.

By time being better spent...I mean with my wife (who most assuredly agrees ANY time I walk away from a game and do something with her http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif ).

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">'investing time' Gees you make it sound like a chore. Isn't investing time supposed to be the fun part? win or lose. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Loosing because of the map is rarely fun. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That was my point IMO Yes it is. And Winning on a map unbalanced against you is loads of fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Try this and see how much fun it is when you win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

For all intents and purposes David, it's imposible to do. And I'm not talking about the average run of the mill start where one player has a huge breathable in his homesystem, and the other guy doesn't and that's the only difference. But the really bad ones where one guy 2 or three times as many usable planets within colonizer range of his homeworld. That kind of a lead is flatly insurmountable unless the player is quite a bit more skilled at the teqhniques of expansion then the other guy. You could play 50 games against similerly skilled opponents with that kind of a disadvantage and win none of them.

But if that is your idea of fun, we could accomodate you. I am sure we could design some maps that would be quite sufficently painful for you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Not all Se4 has to be competative. You can have fun role playing or whatever. But the idea of Koth and the Se4 Ratings systems are for competition. Testing one anothers skill against each other. If the players cannot be given at least semi-equal playing fields, it's not test of skill any longer but who gets the luckier start.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Try this and see how much fun it is when you win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Quite true. No disagreement. But, I think, the results will be 1 of 2 things: (1) You win and then think it's because the opponent was just a weak player (therefore, the victory is a bit diminished) or (2) You lose and feel it's due to the map and wish you had spent the time doing something else.

NOW, if I played on a map that held benefits for one person while harming MY game/position and I won that game and it was Asmala, I'd probably get so swell-headed NO one could stand me... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

As usual, Geo, better words than I could assemble. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Renegade, I see your opponent has uploaded a turn after you message. I put the game on fully automatic. Let's see if that helps.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Getting lucky is fun. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Oh well guess I'm the only one who liked the kinder gentler KOTH of days gone by.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

You know having events effect the gameplay can make one unlucky or lucky. In my latest game vs the AI ive had a few medical plagues - have a ship for each 3 systems that can quickly move to problem areas.

1 planet explode but that is good considering my planets number around 88. Also had a ship constuction base get warped to a random unsettled map point (it had some population and sats on board) therefore being on the other end of the 255 system map i was able to build a few colonies and expand from the top left and bottom right corner. Its good to attack 1 big enemy from both fronts - they are really pushing themselves to combat my multi front attack. Perhaps a smarter AI would help

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Parabolize,

Yes, it looks that way on my side of the map too. I'm a gas race, are you? I figure as long as we are both gas, then the map is balanced. If you are not, I'm probably screwed.

taterbill </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">H2 rock http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
but I will restart if you want http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Parabolize,

In the name of kinder, gentler, KOTH, and for the sake of the 17 turns we got in yesterday, let's just keep going. When I lose I can just blame it on the map.

taterbill

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks a lot Asmala. I emailed him and he said he wouldn't be able to do turns on weekends, so I'm not sure if fully automatic is such a good idea. However, he said some days he could do more than one turn a day, so maybe it'll balance itself out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif We'll see.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Parabolize,

What just happened? I uploaded a turn, then immediately downloaded the next turn, and it's like the AI has played a turn for me. I suddenly have all kinds of crappy AI designs, and worse yet, they are all half finished at all my shipyards. My ships are suddenly going all over the place, I wasted a turn of research, etc. Arrrggghhh!

Did the same thing happen to you, or was it just me?

taterbill

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Just you.
I dont know why it happend maybe you sent the wrong turn http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif
Anyway turn off the damn AI in your ministers menu! I hate it when that happens.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

OK, I'm gonna throw in the towel. First the map, now this... You wouldn't believe how stupidly designed my new half-finished fleet is! Oh well.

I do always turn off the AI ministers, but this one time I forgot. Figures.

Good luck Parabolize. You win w/o firing a shot.

I do believe there are serious issues w/ your maps Tesco. I think they'll be fine as long as both players chose Rock. Otherwise, they're toast.

Asmala, please leave me off the board for a while. I'm actually having more fun in my multi-player games.

Thanks.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

taterbill
you dont want to restart?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Thanks for the offer, but I really think I should not, at least for now. I've probably over-commited myself to multiplayer games, plus I've got some real life issues coming up, like getting taxes done, spring break vacation, etc. Accept your good fortune and keep climbing!

And Tesco, I don't mean to sound too critical. The map I saw seemed nicely balanced, if both players were the same homeworld type. Perhaps that should become a KOTH house rule.

No hard feelings anywhere...

Bill

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Koth page is updated.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I changed the turn time to three days so he shouldn't have any problems.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

hi taterbill. THat issue is being addressed. As per the other thread and the previous Posts on the none take over of the universe. Still needs to be tested but each system has the same amount of facilities per atmopshere/planet type. This to me is the fairest of them all http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif


David G... a good koth game is to ask for the other players empire and you both use the same one.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

I am sorry for ruining a few games in koth and Ratings.

Simon

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You did say the magic words: TEST OUT
I liked the starting position and all the warp points.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You did say the magic words: TEST OUT
I liked the starting position and all the warp points. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Yeah, the warp points in my game looked interesting...a bit of change from the usual.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Tesco,

You didn't really ruin it for me... I really don't think I was that far behind and I was about to start studying Rock colonization, that would have leveled things out a bit. It was my dumb mistake uploading an old turn and leaving my AI ministers on that discouraged me to the point of bagging it...

Parabolize, how many points did you have on the Last turn? I had 260K.

taterbill

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Also meant to say...

I appreciate your hard work putting together all the maps. Some well balanced maps will be a great aid to the KOTH and Ratings players. Just a bit of tweaking and they'll be perfect!

Like I said, no hard feelings!

taterbill

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Think back, Tater, and see if this might be what happened. This has happened between Lord Chane and I a few times and I think we figured it out to this error:

Parabolize had his turn uploaded already. You then unloaded yours...but the site just sat there. You, thinking it wasn't doing anything, clicked on the Upload button again. THEN what happened was your first turn went and the site started processing the turn. What you didn't know what that you sent the same turn twice. So, you left the site and started looking at your turn. Meanwhile, Parabolize finishes his turn and submits. Bingo, the turn runs because all files are ready only yours is the same turn file you sent before.

If this might be the answer to your question my advice is this: NEVER click the Upload button again. Have patience. Or exit the site and come back in and see if it has registered your turn.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Actually, I think it's quite likely I hit the upload button twice, but not because I was impatient. I think I actually made the dumb mistake of trying to play SE4 and carry on an intelligent conversation with my wife at the same time. Can't be done... Boy, am I going to miss her! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">267.4 points
52 planets

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">LOL...Boy, do I know that story! When I start a turn that I know will be 20-30 minutes, I allow about 2 interruptions...then I give her that "look" and say, "Baby....". She now knows what that means. Doesn't make her happy but it's best for all concerned...I told her once that SHE was the reason I lost a game because of distractions.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

From Slynky:
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif And yet you live to tell the tale! Amazing! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">267.4 points
52 planets </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I had 260.5 with only 27 planets. The beauty of being gaseous! So actually, it really was pretty dang close. I thought it was, I think I was briefly in first place no more than 5 or 6 turns before the end.

[ February 25, 2004, 05:28: Message edited by: taterbill ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

KOTH Gandalph vs. Gozguy
Stardate 2410.9

Gozguy has surrendered. Great game Gozguy. I wonder why you got fighter tech so late? They turned out to be rather ineffective. Once I got troops and started taking your colonies, I did not find much resistance.

This game was close for some time as I believe we both had resource problems, at least I know I did. Managing resources was a pain right from the start. I had to put building on hold almost every turn and figure out exactly what needed to be built. That problem finally went away once I researched and started colonizing Ice worlds.

Anyway, thanks for the game. I enjoyed strategizing against you.

Asmala, move me up please.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

109 turns, guys. Must have been some give and take. Sounds like it was a good game.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Yes money was a problem in the game for me also. If I had 3 more turns I think I could have invaded your home system Gandolph.The game was anyones up until about turn 80 or so Then I was playing catchup and simply could not catch you. Until again
Gozguy

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Koth page is updated.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Ah well, that's it then. I have surendered to Asmala on turn 51. Can't say I am suprised, as I fully expected to get beat. I made things worse by making a couple critical errors. I took a chance and went with merchant (for the maint bonus) instead of berzerkers. Asmala made me pay dearly for that one. And I compounded the error by somehow forgetting to research sensors for a long time. I had ECM, just forgot about sensors. I remembered when I realized I couldn't hit his ships for anything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Doh!

Ah well, put me back at the bottom Asmala. I shall return! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

I kept looking at the game, Geo. When I saw it at 50 turns this morning, I thought, "Hmmmm, the game's at 50 turns, that's not bad against Asmala...I wonder if he's surprising Asmala."

Then I see your post.

Live and learn, I guess. In the beginning, it seems EVERY item in research is screaming for attention and sometimes a quick click of the mouse results in a choice we [don't] understand later.

For the both of you, I hope the map turned out being as fair as it could be. As I said, or implied, when I place starting points, I don't place them as far away as possible. I think finding a "happy" medium point that gives an appropriate amount of systems between you (based on the map size), yet room behind you, will keep each player guessing just HOW close you are to each other.

[ February 27, 2004, 17:37: Message edited by: Slynky ]

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

Actually Asmala, on second thought, take me off the hill for a while. I need a break right now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Geoschmo

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

The map was great Slynky. Thanks a lot.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

The final big battle was, well, it was a slaughter. I had ~30 ships, Geoschmo had 40-50. None of my ships got even a scratch when Geo lost all of his ships. That's not a big wonder, I had CS 2, ECM 2, fully trained ships and fleet and berzerker against Geo's untrained (?) sensorless merchant ships.

It was a surprise to me that the game ended. Before the final battle I thought over if I should go after Geo's fleet or turn back to upgrade CS 3 and ECM 3. Afterwards it's easy to say it would have been useless to go back to upgrade.

The map was great, thanks to Slynky. We both got galaxy parts of equal size (about). What I wondered when Geo surrendered to me was that he had colonized only a bit over half of his half.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Easy answer, I suck.

I never cease to be amazed at your ability to outcolonize me by orders of magnitude in every game we have played. It's as if you get to play two turns for every one I do, and have four times as many resources to play with. I know this is not the case, merely my own perception due to my pitiful lack of ability.

In this game I had even stated at one point that I felt I was doing a pretty good job in expanding. Obviously I have no concept of what it is to truly expand. Then when we made contact I had to devote some amount of my resources to try and build enough ships to deal with yours. This was a hopeless task because of the variances in combat modifiers.

My ships in the Last battle were trained, but not completely.

I truely cannot comprehend how I can be so much worse then you in every aspect of the game. But I acknowledge it as a self-evident fact.

You are the master.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

So it's me and Spoon next. I've never played against him but a player with 0 losses is a rare thing in a King match. Spoon, what settings you'd prefer?

We'd also need a GM for this game. Any takers?

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well, Geo's a bit free at the moment and since he used to do KOTH, I'd bow to him if he wanted to. And since it appears no one was upset with the maps and placements I did, I'd volunteer again if there was no one else popping up.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

You can do it Slynky.

Re: Are you tough enough to be the "King of the Hill"?
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Fairly standard -- no ruins, no events, Good starting planet. Looking forward to the game, from what everyone says, you're the Man to Beat!

[ February 27, 2004, 20:19: Message edited by: spoon ]