Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Agreed. Nonetheless, I second it. Furthermore, I recommend penalties be based on encumbrance, not armor. Good armor is one thing, heavy armor is... usually the same thing. Usually. I'm wondering whether base encumbrance should also be factored in. I'm inclined to say "yes", since bird boned Caelians and purely hypothetical hypermetabolic skaven can't handle their mud nearly as well as humans.
Let's not dwell on this too long, though, no need to hijack a water mojo thread with our LI propaganda.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

How about a water battlefield enchantment (or global?) to reduce everyone's attack skill. In general this would make battles Last longer and thus let the encumberance advantage of LI be worth more. Of course, it would also accentuate the advantage of elite units...

Water should have some more good climate changing effects like Wolven Winter. I like the idea of a Very Powerful item which shifts the scale of a province to cold. It fits the theme and is similar to some other items. How about a Drout spell that shifts a province towards death? A combination of multiple Wolven Winters and Drouts would be a worthy gem sink in a lot of situations...

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

Only have 2 metric minutes to post, so I'll be brief.
How about an alteration combat spell, in 3 possible variants(Single target, large area, and Inner Sun style death curse) which can only be cast/triggered underwater, and renders the target/s aquatic? Amphibians, poor amphibians, water mages and their retinues, anyone who fails to resist would be incapable of leaving the ocean without an amulet of the fish. Stylish, appropriate, and only rasies 1 question, that of whether poor amphibians would retain their penalties for fighting underwater.
A similar spell with slightly different style could simply afflict target water mages/amphibians/aquatic units with the mermen's curse, meaning they'd have to return to water every so often, amulets of the fish nonwithstanding. If this spell had a small area effect(Meant to be used on commanders) but could be used on land based units ordinarily incapable of entering the sea, that might serve to complicate things nicely.
I actually got the idea for this curse when toying with a nature battlefield enchantment, "Circe's Caprice". Irreversible, insanely random(And affected by fortune scale) mix of Polymorph, Transformation and Cross Breeding, which affects both sides in any given battle(Including the caster, but that's what mage MR is for. Besides, the effects aren't necessarily negative). If we start grasping at straws, I can see how a, shall we say, fish-based variant of that might work, though I imagine actually coding this sort of thing could be a major headache.
The second spell could also have a blood/nature or blood/earth counterpart which binds units/commanders to a particular province, a la hamadryads, certain vampire myths, and much, much more. Not that that's on topic, or anything, I just find it cool.

Time elapsed! See ya.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

Anyone here read Planetary?

Groinshatter
Water 1, Alteration 3, precision 100, range 10, fatigue cost 40, MR easily negates. Effects include 2 armor negating damage, paralysis, and immunity to succubi. If affected, the Lord of the Hunt and Lord of Fertility are completely destroyed.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

Cue a display of idle schlongery the likes of which has not been seen since the Athens of yore. Let's breathe some life into these fora.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

Vicious Love is a scary man... a very scary man.

I think I figured out what water magic means . Most of their spells are geared towards defense because they're more effective in your home turf. Many water spells are underwater only, so forget about flexibility there. Others are heavily influenced by cold domains, so they're superb with the -heim races and Caelum, but less than mediocre for those battles away from home, where your faith doesn't prevail, or worse, in Abysian/Machakan territory. Raise your hand if you see the inherent flaw in this philosophy when applied to a game about WAR and EXPANSION?

What about a high level ritual that would give your units Amphibian (NOT poor amphibian) traits? I don't feel like putting any stats, but I guess it should be alteration, and for each gem you spend, you can make 3 size worth of units amphibian.

Another ritual for water might be "Healing Spring." It's a low levelled conjuration or alteration spell that creates a healing spring in a province. The spring gives everyone in the same province Recuperation.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

I like healing spring, except the low level part; wounds are supposed to be fairly difficult to get rid of, I'd make it perhaps 6th level (as opposed to 8th for Chalice or Faerie Court). A little lower in level so Water gets a boost, but high enough to keep wounds significant.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I'd see it as useful it were a lower-level, perhaps somewhat expensive, say, 50W spell. By bumping it up higher level, it's starting to tread on the toes of things like GoH, the Chalice, Faerie Court, etc.

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

Having recently played a not-too ill-fated Atlantis for the first time, I'd like to reemphasize something others have said. Water 9 has a great blessing, sure.

But other than the blessing, there seems to be almost no reason to take water to high levels : great early low level spells, sure. A couple of good to great low to mid level forgings (in terms of Water magic needed).

Get up to the very powerful and artifact level though, and ... Water seems to have almost jack. I pushed a water-5 national mage up to water 8, finding ... nothing. (Orb of Atlantis is the highest, and it only requires W4 plus E1.)

Everything but blood researched to 8 or 9, it seems that water -should- have some good high level spells (as others do) and also at least a couple of decent powerful magic items and artifacts.

But it doesn't, but it seems like it should. The Chalice? Shouldn't that be water? A powerful artifact sword that protected its wielder and healed his wounds - originates from the Lady of the Lake in Arthurian legends.

Maybe, given what water supposedly represents - an artifact that gives access to some non-water spells?

Hmmm. A Magic Pool artifact, requiring high water magic, that gives a choice of Akashic Record or Astral Window, no gems required? Or even if it only gave a choice from the other lower level scrying spells.

Cloak or Armor of Water - an artifact armor that gives mistform (being liquid makes it similarly difficult to land a solid blow) or etherealty, and gives 50% resistance to fire, cold, and lightning, since water buffers against all of those?

There was a cup given to kings, that protected from poison - some other bonus would seem reasonable as well. Maybe reduced cost for all water summonings, or a plus to water magic?

Just a tired wolf's attempt to raise the red lantern, er, consciousness about water's woes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Suggestions to improve the Water Magic discipline
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The chalice is the holy grail, so astral and nature makes quite a bit of sense with how magic works in game.