Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Well said.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You or myself have no idea what method of complete healthcare will be placed and the overall outcome... Canadian style or something. Personally I view it as not worth the risk for raising my taxes on something which may be better for the USA. This gamble is not worth the risk.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Why would you want to go back?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Paying less taxes and giving people reasons for not being lazy. Like many others I choose to decide how my money is spent and give as little to the government as possible. And if our government makes a huge financial mistake with trying to provide healthcare for everyone it could easily do great damage to our economy and no way to go back.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Earlier you were saying the moral thing to do is help everyone... now you're saying only those which are american citizens. I don't believe our government has the wisdom to provide an effective healthcare system for everyone since it cannot even handle the growing national debt.


<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Don't quote partial/incomplete sentences... which miss the main point. I could easily use the same quote for if the U.S. was to give a Universal Healthcare for all nations.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">There are thousands which abuse the generosity from America and other governments. Example= My cousin helped a woman move groceries which used food stamps. The groceries were going into a shiny expensive BMW. Despite your mind reading beliefs... I have no ill thoughts to those less fortunate.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">And thus I ask again... why not have the USA provide a Universal Healthcare for all nations!

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"> <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It's not like the U.S. has doctors and nurses just sitting around bored. Heck it takes me 5 months before I can make my next doctors appointment after each visit... any cancelation means waiting another 5 months. The taxes could be as high as what switzerland is paying or may not be.... but not worth the gamble.

[ July 26, 2004, 23:47: Message edited by: NTJedi ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Untrue. I generally eschew unnecessary treatments. After all, I have to pay for this crap out of my own pocket, and if I feel fine, I don't need healthcare. The problem with even more nationalized healthcare is the extremely galling notion that somebody, somewhere, who I couldn't give a rat's *** about, is wasting my money on frivolous treatment for diseases and injuries that *I* would have simply ignored! Ignore it, and it will go away...one way or another. This saves me a lot of money! If you didn't live in a nanny-state, you could try this! Have some sort of problem? Ignore it! The human body is surprisingly resilient and often self-repairing, provided you allow it to do so, rather than crippling its ability to cope by seeking unnecessary treatment.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You'd be surprised how much free-time you get once you're retired...which is, after all, the entire point of being retired.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Barely, eh? So I still qualify. Good to hear. Complete lack of empathy, eh? Not so. I simply can't bring myself to feel sorry for miserable slackers who can't be bothered to take responsibility for even themselves. You don't see me expecting you to pay for MY healthcare, and I suspect I'll have need of this sooner than you will....but I planned this. If I can't afford it, well, I'll just die. Dying's cheaper, anyway. Why's this such a problem? People these days have such an annoying hang-up about the concept of dying, as if they were somehow entitled to live forever, long after you, yourself, are incapable of supporting your own existence. News for you: Nobody lives forever. If you can't afford to even support your own continued existence, why should I be compelled to do so? If you want charity, you can always take up e-begging. I hear electronic panhandling is all the rage these days. But you know what? Beggars at least earn their handouts honestly, taking them from the people who want to give to them. Can't fault them for that.

[ July 26, 2004, 23:24: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

dp

[ July 26, 2004, 23:25: Message edited by: Norfleet ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Since you are such a big supporter of all things Republican, I find it most hypocritical that you should cite the rising national debt, something that has traditionally exploded under Republican administrations (Reagan, Bush Sr., Bush Jr.) that are staunch believers in deficit spending and letting future generations worry about the problems caused by their populist policies of tax breaks (for rich people & corporations) and warmongering.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">lol vigabrand http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

OECD figures for 1999, which measure total tax burden as a percentage of total economic output, have the US at 14.2%. Sweden is the second highest, at 21.7%, but Ireland, Austria, Switzerland, Germany, France, Netherlands, Spain, Greece, Japan... all have lower overall tax burdens http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

and yet, somehow, they all manage to have universal health care. who'd a thunk it.

http://www.taxpayer.com/Facts/Intern...omparisons.pdf

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

Your answer Arch is the US milatary. It consumes alot of money (not saying that its a good thing just a fact). As for Arryn thinking all Republicans thinking alike where did that come from? I am a conservative Republican...I believe in balanced budgets,conserving the environment,preserving our country's (and the world's) freedoms. I want to know how the biblethumping southern democrats took over my party? I also want to know how middle America can back Bush after Iraq. Bush,Cheney,Rumsfield and the idiots who authorized torture in iraq have sullied the honor of the world's finest milatary..in the name of expediency.

frosted flake

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

I'm not very adept at using the quote system here, so please be patient, but I've gotta step in on the Catholic stuff here. Without trying to pour gas on the fire, let me just point out a couple of misplaced arguments...

There is a sense in these postings that it is expected that Catholics are required to blindly follow and believe in exactly what the Holy See (ie - the Pope and Vatican City) says. I have to take exception to that. Yes, there is an expectation to follow scripture, tradition, and canon law. My exception is in the thought that it is happening "blindly". The church strongly encourages study to promote understading the "why's" and "how's" of the belief system. It's not the fault of the church if people jump on or off the bandwagon with no knowledge of why they're doing something.

But going on with the topic of following the Popes commands and teachings - a person either agrees with and follows the Catholic faith or they don't. No one is being FORCED to do anything. But if a person claims to be Catholic, they agree to follow its precepts. And there is concern in the Catholic church currently regarding people taking a "pick and choose" mentality toward which teachings they agree to follow and which they don't.

True - Mankind has judgement and freewill (speaking on the whole, not politically) and not everyone agrees with everything the Pope says. But if a person does not follow the teachings of canon law and the Catholic faith, then, by the church's standards, that person is not living a Catholic life.

Before someone gets offended, I'm NOT making an arguement for whether or not Catholicism is "correct", I'm NOT saying non-Catholics are bad people, and I'm NOT equating morality with Catholicism. There are very good and moral people who disagree with certain Catholic teachings. But my point is that by claiming to be a Catholic, a person is saying that he follows Catholic teachings and holds Catholic values.

Sure, it's possible to disagree with the Holy See - that's how Protestantism and it's various denominations came about. Martin Luther was a Catholic who disagreed with some of the views so he created his own church to meet his value needs. John Calvin and Joseph Smith did the same thing. They didn't agree with what they were being taught, so they broke away on their own. The point being - if someone disagrees with the Catholic church, why would they WANT to associate themselves with it and continue to name themselves as Catholic? It's not possible to HONESTLY say "I'm a Catholic....except for the parts about abortion, sex, and marriage".

To make what is probably a bad analogy - it's like saying "I'm a baseball player. But I don't like having three bases, so I just play with two and ignore the third one. And I disagree with three strikes being an out, so I'll just have the pitcher keep pitching until the batter get 7 strikes." At that point, you're not playing baseball, you're just playing your own game.

[ July 26, 2004, 23:56: Message edited by: daesthai ]

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I concur. Isn't the entire point of being a member of said religion that you share that religion's beliefs? Because if you don't, obviously, you're not really a member....unless you somehow just like having the label for whatever benefit you can gain from it, without having to actually be bound by the obligations of said title. I suspect the only real claim some of them have to being "Catholic" is starting out born that way. For instance, I tend to completely disagree with many Catholic views. Thus, I am not a member, and do not claim to be one.

Re: OT: Jibjab, Politics, the Big Bang and more!
 

Thanks Norfleet. You were able to state a bit more concisely the point I was trying to make.