.com.unity Forums

.com.unity Forums (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/index.php)
-   TO&Es (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=108)
-   -   The Daily Iraq errors report (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37338)

Marcello April 10th, 2008 04:27 AM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Game wise I think that weapon n.158 in the iraqi OOB would be a good fit. That would also avoid using up another weapon slot.


EDIT
In reality what type of ammunition has been purchased so far was not specified. For all that it is known they might have got BM-15 past their expiration date.
However they are purchasing additional T-72M/M1 from eastern countries with the goal of fully equipping a tank division (the others divisions would eventually get western tanks) and I would guess that the above gun would be the best candidate for the sort of ammo that would realistically be aquired.

Marcello May 16th, 2008 11:44 AM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Some additional stuff, for eventual future patches.

Formation 205, Inf-AT Section and 206, Mot Inf-AT Sec.
Incorrect availability date: they begin at 1/55 but the template unit is available since 1/46.
The formations should begin at 1/46 too.

These two formations have availability dates 1/70-12/120
Formation 36, Motorised Co
Formation 51, Motorised Pl.
The only difference from formations 35 (Motorised Co) and 50 (Motorised Pl) is the presence of an organic SAM.
To the best of my knowledge there is no reason why such unit should have an organic SAM in the 70's while republican
guard mechanized units should be without in the 80's.
I suggest the following change
1) Formations 35 and 50 have their final date extended from 12/74 to 4/103
2) Formations 36 and 51 have their availability dates changed to 1/105-12/120
3) Their structure could be changed to reflect the
new iraqi army organization: a command section (one squad and two HMMWV) and four platoons with three squads
and three APCs each.The organic SAM should be deleted of course.(although new iraqi army organization is still somewhat fluid)

Formation 6 Tank Co (SPG)
Formation 7 Tank Co (FT)
Formation 9 Tank Co (Amph)

I suggesto these formations to be deleted.
The standard iraqi tank company pre OIF was composed by a
two tanks command section and three tank platoons with three tanks each as correctly portrayed in the game now.
There is no indications that formations like the above were employed as standard and in any case
cross attachments can deal with the any specific needs.

Formation 15 Amphib Tank Pl

End date should be restricted to 4 of 103.
There is no sense in it going on after the PT-76 are phased out.

Formation 18 SP-Gun Pl

It might be asppropriate to restrict the final availability date to 12 of 1988 instead of 1991.
As far as I know the vehicles in this formation were gone before 1991.T-55/54/59/Type 69 were in
plentiful supply by then, making those vehicles redundant after the end of the war with Iran.
According to "T-34-85 Medium Tank 1944-94" by Steven J. Zaloga some T-34s were dragged
out from storage to replace wartime losses during the war with Iran (exact timeframe is not specified but
from some pictures found www.militaryphotos.net it would seem in the first years of the war).

Also a close support T-34 should be made available, with 2/59-12/88 as availability dates.

Unit 8 M47

The iraqis did not make substantial use of captured tanks (unlike APCs and SPAs).
Some Chieftains were handed to the Mojahedin-e Khalq who may have driven them out of their storage sheds
once in a blue moon or so until OIF. But that's it. If any M47s were captured they were parked somewhere.

Unit 36 Assad Babyl

I suggest icon to be changed to that of a regular T-72 and final date to be extended to 4/103.
While the tank looks a bit different from a regular T-72M1 if seen from certain point of view
it is not enough to warrant a different icon.
http://www.jedsite.info/tanks-tango/...byl-intro.html

Unit 25 T-62A

Availability dates should be extended to 4/103. Otherwise the only T-62 left after 1981
is unit 26 T-62M. This in the game sports a laser rangefinder, which iraqi T-62s typically did not have.

Unit 45 ZSU-23-4M
Availability date should be anticipated to before Kuwait invasion.
1993 is puzzling as a starting as date effective sanctions were already in place.


Unit 67 BMP-1a

Up armored BMP.There were two up BMP armoring projects.

http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-br...dam-intro.html
An 80's up armoring program prototype, which was probably not put in production.

And a less extensive one, which may have seen limited production.
http://www.jedsite.info/fulltrack-br...am2-intro.html

It should be decided which one this unit should represent.

Unit 332 TO-62
It should be deleted.
I have asked around and it seems that either it never existed or if it did it was a prototype/limited production item not exported.

Marcello May 25th, 2008 02:17 PM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Iraqi T-62 tanks. Two main versions were used in the Iran-Iraq/Gulf war period

The "vanilla" type

http://64.40.99.49/Multimedia/pics/1...photo/1217.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/jamesdale10/2267829065/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/snakeblocker/48227102/

The "improved" type

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/l...62-11_iraq.jpg
http://www.silentlywedefend.com/T62.JPG
http://news.webshots.com/photo/10327...34874941aEiYcL

About the only difference I can spot is armored protection for the IR projectors, (although there may be further differences in things like sand filters and what not).
In any case nothing that would show up in the game stats. A small number was fitted with
Type 69 style side skirts but that's it.
If any were fitted with laser rangefinders I have never seen them (an addon LRF would have been external
in that timeframe), although I have heard (but not seen) that at least one prototype was made fitted with it and
I cannot rule out a limited batch production. So, as I noted in the previous post there should be
T-62s without LRF available in the 1980-2003 timeframe and they should be prevalent.


Units 28,586 and 617: TR-77 tanks.
I suggest their availability starting date to be anticipated to 1982
(currently they are available since 1987).

Unit 617 is available until 2020 but all the T-55 type tanks in the new iraqi army service are T-55/type 69.
Final date should be 4/103 at the latest.

According to the SIPRI registers about 150 of these tanks were delivered between 1982 and 1984. Realistically I doubt those few tanks may have survived past the Gulf War, maybe not even the Iran-Iraq war. They certainly should not be available past OIF.

Unit 523 BMP-1a
Same issues as unit 67.

Marcello October 8th, 2008 01:08 PM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Some further food for any future updates.

Infantry weapons of the new iraqi army

Assault Rifles
The AK has been the standard rifle of the new iraqi security forces after 2003.
It has been in the process of being phased out since 2007, with the first M16s being issued
in May of that year. The goal is to replace all AKs with the M16/M4 as quickly as possible.
Going by the numbers it would seem that by the end of 2008 most or all of the regular troops will be armed with M16/M4.

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?s...9&archive=true
http://www.military.com/NewsContent/...162878,00.html
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...FNaT8/610x.jpg

Machine guns
The PK has been the standard machine gun in the iraqi army, being used both as LMG
and MMG, as well as on vehicles and such. Some RPKs may have been used as well but not as many as the PKMs.
In addition some quantities of M249 SAW and M240 MMG machine guns have been requested but the replacement of the PK is not regarded as urgent as the replacement of the AK-47.

http://flickr.com/photos/jimbirt/262223546/
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Im...e_Gun_Iraq.jpg
http://www.deagel.com/news/FMS-Iraq-...000000978.aspx

In the HMG class cal 50 have been used.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/article...061605wm3.html

AT weapons
The RPG-7 is the standard antitank weapon. A small quantity of american LAWs has been purchased for testing purposes.
Like for the machine guns there is no pressing need. What ATGM is going to be selected is unknown at the moment. According to the rumor mill the supplier may be european.

Mortars
American 60mm mortars were issued starting from 2005. 81mm M252 mortars were issued starting from june 2008
and 120mm M120 mortars have been ordered as well.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/multim...ge14-notes.pdf (for the 81mm and 120mm ones)

PlasmaKrab October 8th, 2008 03:10 PM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcello (Post 643979)
In the HMG class cal 50 have been used.
http://www.defendamerica.mil/article...061605wm3.html

Just for the sake of nitpicking, the .50 MG here looks pretty much like an NSV, save for the chaingun-like belt :confused: on left side. And no ammo feed on right side. Conversion with NATO-style feed?

Nevermind, thanks for the update!

Marek_Tucan October 8th, 2008 04:03 PM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Have a candidate for the .50 - Polish WKM-B, which is basically NSV rechambered for 12.7x99.

Marcello October 9th, 2008 11:53 AM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Quote:

Just for the sake of nitpicking, the .50 MG here looks pretty much like an NSV, save for the chaingun-like belt on left side. And no ammo feed on right side. Conversion with NATO-style feed?
Honestly I just checked that it was not a Dshkm and trusted the caption for the rest.

Iraqi troops training on M240 machine gun alongside PKMs

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...raining_lg.jpg

This was a 2006 picture. It does not mean that they were actually issued but there was some interest in the weapon already back then.

New Iraqi security forces RPG-7 gunners

http://newsblaze.com/pix/2006/0511/pix/soldier-rpg.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...sF1Yi/610x.jpg
rpg.jpghttp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:ISF_member_armed_with_RPG-7.jpg
http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/...tP53I/610x.jpg

thatguy96 October 17th, 2008 01:52 PM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Something else to add from today. link

PlasmaKrab October 19th, 2008 11:04 AM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy96 (Post 646386)
Something else to add from today. link

Hmm, with TI and some decent EW (according to the article), this is going to be a nice addition to the post-OIF Iraqi OOB's air capability. Right now there is only F-16s starting 2011, this 'mock-Predator' should be interesting for the transition period.

Marcello October 19th, 2008 11:42 AM

Re: Iraq errors report
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by PlasmaKrab (Post 646750)
Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy96 (Post 646386)
Something else to add from today. link

Hmm, with TI and some decent EW (according to the article), this is going to be a nice addition to the post-OIF Iraqi OOB's air capability. Right now there is only F-16s starting 2011, this 'mock-Predator' should be interesting for the transition period.

This is supposed to provide a limited interim strike capability until the acquisition of some dedicated coin turboprop, Super Tucano or similar, whose negotiations are should be underway as we speak (several procurement deals appear to have been delayed and this was one of them). Next step will be the acquisition of some F-16s, not before 2013-2014 though.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:33 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©1999 - 2025, Shrapnel Games, Inc. - All Rights Reserved.