Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

Really, this is the best argument you have? You have equal chance of getting to magic resistance items as your enemy has to cast the spell. On top of that, for him to spam it, he needs multiple mages that can cast it. Not many nations can pull that off. The scenario you list step by step above is not unbiased in the least bit. It is infinitely easier to forge an amulet than it is to spam vengeance of the dead.

So while you try to point out how impossible it is for you to counter this spell, I would argue that it is more difficult to get the spell going. And you are trying to tell me that your SC failed his MR against all attempts with an amulet of antimagic you had equipped. I am calling shenanigans here, you did not mention an amulet until I did, and if you are being honest about having one, then that is some pretty terrible luck and will not likely happen to you in future games.

To the MR 25 comment. I have used this spell in quite a few games, as I love to play R'lyeh. And to hit an MR that high would be close to impossible without penetration items. For every time I have had the spell work on a powerful target, I have had it fail numerous times. Sometimes when people get butthurt over game mechanices, they have a tendency to remember the event a little different than it actually happened. I am guessing in your case an Amulet was added in retrospect, and in the other guy's case, the ratio of success/failure is probably a bit skewed.

Or maybe you are right. You guys have found the end-all-be-all I win spell in this game. Many people will read this thread and from here until the game is patched to fix this heinous spell, it will be the focal point of every strategy conceived from this point onward.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

Utgarde, LA ryleh, and MA ermor comes to mind. And honestly i dont think this is a good argument. Mist of Deception, in it's buggy state, it is completelly overpowered and exploitable. Even if there are fewer A6 casters than there are S3D2 ones.

If you read the original post i linked, MR is not as good as it reads vs this spell, and being easily spammable, it is not a guarantee of nothing. Beyond that, It is Thau4. Antimagic items are Cons4. Not that easy of a counter, plus several nations do not have astral or earth2 easily achieavable.

Actually, they don't need to kill the SC at all. THey only need to hang around dying in masses until turn 75 bell sounds.

I dont see it as help needed for SC. I see it as a bug problem, and a bug exploit. Same bug than Mist of Deception for that matter: mindless units without a leader *should* crumble. This zombies should not be mindless, or should need a freddy krugger type. Either way, they should rout in turn 50 as every other single attacker does.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

That's completelly pointless. Not a lot of nations can pull off a Mist of Deception + Wrath skies + returning home combo, and it still is a overpowered combo for those that can. The fact that only a few nations can benefit for this tactic is an aggravated insult. It makes those nations to have access to a very soon and very fast to research anti-awake spell that you have very little chances to survive against due to a bug in the combat resolution. That only some nations can abuse it is what make it less widely known, nothing more.

BTW, Supercombatants probalby dont need further help. But late age ryleh does not need it either, that for sure...

And for the last time, i'm not asking for a nerf to the spell. I'm asking it *works* as the *rules* say it *should* work. Which means attacker loses in turn 50 if defender manage to survive.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

Simplest solution to VotD would be to add leaders for it. Maybe 1/20 or so, so that it's not too easy to just kill the leader to win. Make them as indistinguishable as possible so it's hard to target them. Same size, also mindless, etc.

Then, they'll rout at turn 50 and the chaff will start to disintegrate.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

Ohhhhhh! Another Vengeance of the Dead thread! When I thought everything that could be said about it has already been done so.

The easy fix to the whole dilemma would be: The devs hack the spell so that the kills from the VotD assassination attempt does not count towards the units kill count.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

I believe VotD should be adjusted not because of balance reasons, but because events occur which do not make any sense.


This has a few issues which are just logically wrong:

1) Being auto-killed while fleeing during an assassination. Historically and logically incorrect.

2) Successfully fleeing during a dream should at worst cause the target to awaken... maybe with the battle fright affliction.

3) Killing these undead within a dream should not count as kills. This results in one soul being doubled or tripled and appearing in future VotD castings.

4) The battle turn limits... as I understand are 50 the attacker retreats, 75 defender retreats and 100 all attackers are killed. As computers become more and more powerful it would be nice if us gamers had the option of adjusting the battle turn limits. Currently every game we play has this all powerful organized union which forces non-golem attackers to retreat at 5pm... and then forces non-golem defenders to retreat at 8pm. I hate this organized union.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

NTJedi:

Actually Golem vanishes when his turn limit comes. He just suddenly stops to exist.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

If you did not become auto killed when you fled from assasination it would be very hard to use assasins except on commanders moving with armies. Every player would put all important commanders not currently headed for combat on retreat.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

johan osterman:

Nah, you wouldn't do that if they would land in neighbouring province. If enemy decided to retreat commanders it would be rather more useful than getting some random kills with assassins.

Re: vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+
 

Which is why I wrote they would put the orders on important commanders not heading for battle. Such as mages researching, casting rituals, site searching, forging. All those would become immune to assasination and assasination spells.