Re: Short list and exploits
 

Tuidjy, even if your views on the matter are quite correct, it might be hard to counter an mist of deception abuse, you could try to be a bit more civil.

There is a problem with the spell, but you should not attack players who try to find in game solutions to the problem. Attack me or JK instead.

Re: Short list and exploits
 

*teleports into kristoffer's house.
*casts mists of deception
*casts wrathful skies
*retreats

i've already attacked him, noone else has to.

Re: Short list and exploits
 

Damn, I've been slain and imprisoned in Tartarus! Fortunately I know a helpful necromancer in Lund.

Re: Short list and exploits
 

Right, like Kristoffer's house doesn't have all the Domes up.

Where do think they test all these spells?

Re: Short list and exploits
 

KO: Attack me or JK instead.

Sure! As soon as I make all my programs bug free, I will come at you full of
righteous wrath... But it is so much easier not to cheat, or not to talk
nonsense. So it is simpler to pick on those who do.

There is NO counter to a lab full of collars except to abuse someone else.
There is NO effective counter to MoD/SoS + BE.

And it is not your fault, because bugs happen. There have been much worse
bugs in the years I've played Dominions... But people who insist that MoD
is not worse than hiding raiders disgust me. I have never been hurt by it.
The one time someone did it to me, he wrathed three Jarls with Air Picks.
Everyone else was set on retreat. I did not expect Mists, but I expected
Wrath. Had it been Heat from Hell, I would have been helpless.

But my uncle quit a game because of an _unintended_, similar abuse, then asked
the question loud and clear in his other games. Low and behold: one of the
players in one of these games claims he did not know, and just abused another
player. Yes, I enjoy sarcasm, and yes, I may be an [censored]. But I think that
the two abuses above should be absolutely forbidden, just as hacking the .2h
should be.

-----------

To K, I apologize. Maybe he really thought that assassination spells targeting
the capital work. I have to admit, I did so at some point myself. Hi, Xietor!

Re: Short list and exploits
 

Being fire immune, I might as well post an opinion here.

I'm the one who has compiled the monster known as the bug shortlist and I have a fairly good idea of how many of these things behave and also what their impact on a game is.

In my opinion, there are three bugs that qualify as exploits that should be banned. Retaliation against a player using them could be considered, depending on how major it is.

The following bugs are, in my personal opinion, such exploits:

• <font color="red">SPELL Mists of Deception</font> Keeps on producing phantasmal units even when all enemies are dead, causing combat to go on forever and autokilling all attacking units left on the battlefield
• <font color="red">SPELL Twiceborn:</font> Grants immortality to demons with death magic. A demon with twiceborn in effect will respawn in capital like an immortal if it dies in friendly dominion.
• <font color="red">BHV Army Movement: Move &amp; Patrol</font> When a commander is selected to move into a province with a castle and the move order changed to move and patrol, adding units to his squads will not change the move order even if the units do not have sufficient map move. Thus units with strategic move of 0 can be moved from province to province and units with strategic move of 1 can be made to move farther than they should.

Out of these, the last one is situation dependent and the advantage gained may be major or minor as determined by other factors. It can also only be used if the commander and his fast troops are not slowed down by terrain, though I have no idea if the slow troops' lack of survival would ever be factored in wrt mountains or forests. It is non-trivial, but not as over the top as MoD.

The Twiceborn on demons problem is more of a hassle, but is mainly applicable to Lanka, which is generally tough enough to not even need it. Yomi can also exploit it, but given the Oni spirit forms, it may or may not work. I sure as hell would be pissed off if some thug commander just kept coming back after being killed several times even when he shouldn't have.

The Mists of Deception bug is such that if I were to run games, any player caught using the MoD/Damage BF Ench combo exploit in them would get turned instantly to AI, no mercy, no appeal and no exceptions.

Everything else in the buglist is a merely an annoyance compared to these three and can easily be worked around.

Re: Short list and exploits
 

What about casting Solar Brilliance on people reading your post?

Re: Short list and exploits
 

rotfl

Re: Short list and exploits
 

The best compromise would be to annoy the host of whatever game you're playing until they state before the game starts that these things are banned. That way, everyone is clear on what is and is not allowed.

All hosts who think these things are illegal should say so ahead of time, because apparently not everyone agrees (although it is mind-boggling that they don't).

Re: Short list and exploits
 

Whoops, sorry about that. Screwed up the color tags and then had to deal with a customer before I could go back and edit it.