Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

Ohhhhhhh!

Simmer down people!! There is no need for profanity...(or personal attacks!)

I personally LOVE the new show, but yes I will pick it apart...Its HUMAN NATURE!!

Go to ANY board and you will fine people talking about what they love....and PICKING IT APART!! They do it about Trek, Buffy, Angel, Comics (see some of the flame wars that go on there, they had to install a damn auto-censor for pete's sake!), SEIV!!!(we do nothing but love and pick apart this game!!)

Look at most world RELIGIONS, they pick each other apart, and not nicely!

I looked forward to the season premiere of the Practice all summer....I liked it mostly, but I did pick it apart at the end...And I'll watch Buffy (yeah I know, don't start!! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif) and they will bring her back to life, and I will pick it apart as I believe they should have kept here gone and then bring her back 1/2 way thru the year..(during Feb sweeps probally), but that is just my opinion...

anyway....I know nobody asked me, and I will probally get slammed, but heck it IS human nature to look at something and think they can do better......

------------------
"We are all...the sum of our scars"....(paraphrased) Matt. R. Stover-'Blade of Tyshalle'.

"Human existance is all imagination...Reality is no more than a simple agreement among its participants that this is where we shall meet, and these are the rules that we shall abide by."- Kevin McCarthy/David Silva "The Family:Special Effects"..

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

We don't need flames on this forum, lets try to keep the tone civil, k?

I would just like to say that the trekkie nitpicking, and "whining" (tone is subjective and hard to put in text form), does not nessesarily imply that the person does not like the show.
ISTM, that the people with the largets collections of picked nits are the most dedicated fans.
Like, geoschmo said: "Those of us that have been fans for years really enjoy this kind of thing. It gives us a sense of being a part of a community."
To be a trekkie, you've gotta know all of the picky details and mistakes, and still love the show.
Most people who do not like a show will stop watching it, and move on, not knowing or caring about all the little details.

We should probably express more appreciation for the hard work going into the show, but customs are hard to change.

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

Baal, that is so out of chacter coming from you I am almost tempted to say someone got a hold of your password. I suggest you tone it down immediately. I expect Richard to come down on you quite harshly if you don't. He might even if you do. Your post was that out of line.

Feel free to disagree, but keep it mature, or keep it to yourself.

Geoschmo

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

Baal:

Sorry, but people in this culture do nasty things like remember details, and compare and contrast shows with one another. It's pop culture, not religion. Although, FYI, I feel I have the right to discuss, compare, and criticize religions, too. (I would keep that to approriate forums, of course.) If you don't like disagreement and criticism then maybe you should move to Iran or Afghanistan. You will find everyone properly respectful of every sort of authority there, because they get murdered if they aren't. I hope you are ready to convert to the appropriate fundamentalist sect of Islam.

I don't know why you've got such a burr up your arse over a tv show, but there's absolutely nothing you can do to stop the discussion. Everyone has a right to have an opinon, unless their opinion involves depriving others of their right to an opinion. It's call pluralism. If you can't live with that in regard to this tv show, you'd best not click on this thread anymore. So if you won't take a humorous suggestion then take a direct warning: GO AWAY. If you continue abusing everyone who dares to touch your holy tv show then you will soon be joining our friend LCC in the outer darkness.


[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 01 October 2001).]

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

Baron & Baal: Please take a second look through this thread, find where it went wrong and then read your post before that one.
I think that you, Baron were taking the situation too lightly, and you, Baal took it much too seriously, and exploded.

You've got to give people the chance to apologise for something that offends you, and not post while you're still furious.
For what its worth, I have been in that situation myself, and it was only a network error stopped me from flaming. Typing a message over again can give you time to think about what you're doing.

You two should seroiusly consider editing down your Posts, and translating them into civil english.

------------

Geoschmo: You've got the first post, and have the power to remove this thread if/when you feel it is appropriate. Choose wisely.

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>... warp 5 is 214 times the speed of light.

How about warp 9.9999 equals 199,516 times the speed of light.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If I remember correctly, you cube the Warp Factor to arrive at the speed. So, warp 5 is 5 * 5 * 5 = 125 times the speed of light. If you recall from the Voyager episodes, they were 70,000 light years from home or at least 70 years from home if they were able to achieve warp 10 which would be 10 * 10 * 10 = 1000 times the speed of light.

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

OK...

Many inconsistencies / illogicalities were introduced in The Original Series, back in the days when they couldn't give a long garlic fart for things like continuity or scientific plausibility. By the time The Next Generation came around, they realised what a bunch of pedantic freaks us sciffies are, and tried their best to straighten out as many inconsistencies and scientific nonsenses as possible without trashing the existing continuity.

For example, interstellar distances, speeds and such were often way off in TOS, and words like "sector" & "quadrant" were bandied about pretty much at random. In TNG, they fixed the definitions (ie quadrant= 1/4 of the galaxy, sector = smaller area of space which may hold many star systems.)

For data storage they made up the term "kiloquad", because they knew that if they used real terminology (ie Gigabytes) then by 1996 the Enterprise-D's computer would look as advanced as a Commodore 64.

As for warp speeds, in TOS warp speeds were pretty much made up as they went along. The maximum for the TOS enterprise was about 8 or 9 I think, but in some episodes it acheived more, sometimes upwards of warp 14, by means of unexpected alien intervention and so on. Some hardy fans made up various non-linear scales to fit around the shows, but they were convoluted and not particularly robust.

Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series)
It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger)

*dogscoff steps back into his Trek closet and closes the door.

------------------
SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M&gt;M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 01 October 2001).]

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series)
It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>All very resonable. I can say that the new series defineltey doesn't follw the TNG scale, for the reason I posted below. But that would make sense I guess since "Enterprise" is pre-TOS, it should not use the same scale as TNG for sure. So we can asume that there was a scientific consensus of some type between the years of the TOS and TNG that revised the warp scale. Logical. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

However, I seem to recall some discrepancies even within the TNG and post TNG series. Can't remember specifically where, but I will try to find them. Not that it is particually important, other than to demonstrate the point that scales are mutable. But I think we are all in agreement on that.

Geo

Edit: In just a few minutes of looking I found one example from a TNG episode where the travled 4.5 light years at warp 2. They covered the distance in a few minutes. According to the TNG warp scale that distance and speed the trip would have taken months. I am sure there are more examples, that just the first one I found.

All this is not a complaint. Star Trek is one of my favorite shows. I think the inconsistancies just give the show character. They don't bother me at all. But that doesn't mean I ignore them. They are like little inside jokes that only us "pedantic scifie freaks" will get, which makes them that much funnier.

Geoschmo
Pedantic Scifie Freak Second Class


[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 01 October 2001).]

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

News Flash: Jesse Jackson has volunteered to mediate between Baron M. and Baal.

Re: OT: Enterprise...What did you think?
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dogscoff:
OK...

Many inconsistencies / illogicalities were introduced in The Original Series, back in the days when they couldn't give a long garlic fart for things like continuity or scientific plausibility. By the time The Next Generation came around, they realised what a bunch of pedantic freaks us sciffies are, and tried their best to straighten out as many inconsistencies and scientific nonsenses as possible without trashing the existing continuity.

For example, interstellar distances, speeds and such were often way off in TOS, and words like "sector" & "quadrant" were bandied about pretty much at random. In TNG, they fixed the definitions (ie quadrant= 1/4 of the galaxy, sector = smaller area of space which may hold many star systems.)

For data storage they made up the term "kiloquad", because they knew that if they used real terminology (ie Gigabytes) then by 1996 the Enterprise-D's computer would look as advanced as a Commodore 64.

As for warp speeds, in TOS warp speeds were pretty much made up as they went along. The maximum for the TOS enterprise was about 8 or 9 I think, but in some episodes it acheived more, sometimes upwards of warp 14, by means of unexpected alien intervention and so on. Some hardy fans made up various non-linear scales to fit around the shows, but they were convoluted and not particularly robust.

Then TNG came in, and they abandoned the old "system" and introduced the scale detailed below by Mephisto, where warp 10 would involve occupying every point in the universe simultaneously. This has been faithfully adhered to ever since. (TNG, DS9, VOY, although I can't comment on the new series)
It's also worth remembering that there are other, quicker ways to get about in Trek (Trans-warp conduits, wormholes, Q's finger)

*dogscoff steps back into his Trek closet and closes the door.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What makes you think they give a garlic fart for consistency or plausibility now? Had you heard that the scripts were written 'formulaicly' with blank technobabble spaces filled as "TECH" until the 'tech consultants' turn came to work over the script and make up technical jargon to let the story work the way the writers want it to? Paramount has never, ever cared anything for consistency or plausibility. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif In many ways, Trek on tv and movies is the opposite of SciFi. Technial jargon is added as decoration on a soap opera. It's only in the novels that much real SciFi occurs.

As for warp speed scales, the old "Star Fleet Technical Reference" from the days before TNG even started up said that warp speed cubed was the multiple of light speed for that warp factor. Then for TNG they changed it to something much more complex. Some of the formulas given here might be correct or might not. I can't remember anymore. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Not that Paramount ever took it's own 'sanctioned' publications into account when writing, though. Yeah, on the old scale warp 4.5 (which seems to be their cruising maximum -- you cannot run an engine full-out for days and weeks) would be about 91 times the speed of light, so 4 days journey would be just about one light year. The Klingon homeworld has got to be further away than that, so those 'tech consultants' must have just been called in at the Last minute again to insert words here and there rather than really examine the script. Someone in the writing dept. must have decided that travel time for dramatic purposes. If the real travel time was used, week and months, then great stories about galactic events become much more difficult to cram into a 1 hour show. You do have to wonder, if other star systems were that easil accessible, why humanity would sit around and do nothing just because the Vulcans didn't think they were ready. Entire empires just DAYS away? Cripes. They must have been really intimidated by those 'parental' Vulcans... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 01 October 2001).]