Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or, just stay out of it's range... that could work... I guess... since almost all weapons outrange it... just a suggestion... ya know...

[ October 12, 2002, 19:11: Message edited by: TerranC ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

Here are some ideas I think would work well and not take away from the game: </font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> Allegiance Subverters should be able to convert only vehicles with life support components on them.</font>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> The Talisman should have about 90-95% chance to hit, rather than 100% or as Mephisto suggested, have the Talisman recharge every other turn or so.
  </font>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you can easily get 3k of racial points. Just take away some of your repair ability and ground combat. Or, for the religious, take away your aggressiveness. You will gain lots and lots of points and you really don't need this skill as you hit the enemy anyway.
Overwhelming numbers are fine but you need at least a ratio of 2:1 and that’s hard against a religious player as you get very fine system wide facilities that increase your economy. I easily out produce and outgun every empire in my PBEM game and if I'm not VERY mistaken I really could take them on all.
Further, research cost is very relative. My Empire has around 100 planets and I produce 800k research points. You name the tech, I get it in no time. Seriously, if you really want, you can have the Talisman after round about 40 turns. Even if you only have DUC or PPB, you will smash the enemy as you hit with every weapon every time. Combine this with large weapon platforms (quite cheap to research) and your are in deep trouble to attack my worlds.
I'm not whining because I loose a game against a religious player but all my enemies are at the receiving end bad times!
In fact as was stated, the "all or nothing" concept behind the talisman and the AS are what is crippling the game balance. If you would hit with the AS 50% of the time, no change would be needed.
Regarding bases: The history.txt in unclear/wrong on this. You can still take over bases, just no units.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">People have explained why they think &ltpick a component/facility/trait&gt needs to be changed, in excruciating detail, and people who disagree have made exhaustive counterarguments.

Ultimately, the "problem" is that there are so many possibilities that there's very little consensus on either the problems or the solutions.

[ October 13, 2002, 23:04: Message edited by: capnq ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Contray to popular myth, there are no people with any special connection to Malfador. Even among the beta team members, we have all the same discussions that occur in the general forum. We throw around ideas, and have debtes that sometimes degenerate into arguments. And in the end ANYONE can email Malfador if they have a suggestion or a complaint. Nobody's emails get any more notice than anyone elses.

Geoschmo

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I agree in part with Q.
Think MM is removing things from SE4, that some people considered "features" and others "bugs".
After 2 years, lots of people love or hate these features/bugs, and lots of mods where based on these features/bugs.
Without doubts, these changes will strongly modify the game balance (for good or for bad will depend of each one!), then, think that an optional setting should be included, instead change these things in a compulsive way.
IMHO, of course.

Re: newest beta patch?
 

"Well, you can easily get 3k of racial points. Just take away some of your repair ability and ground combat. Or, for the religious, take away your aggressiveness. You will gain lots and lots of points and you really don't need this skill as you hit the enemy anyway."

For that same 3000 points you could get Hardy Industrialists, 120 Construction, 120 mining, and a 12% maintaince reduction. This races produces at 5280 per turn on turn one; enough to pop out a colony ship per turn without emergency build.

The religious/pysic race, on the other hand, builds at 3899. Hitting emergancy build takes them to the same speed as the Hardy race, but of course only for 10 turns. The Time Shrine, maxed, gives a 15% bonus- LESS than the bonus the first race has to minerals without even having to research or build a thing. And it doesn't stack with the System Robotoid factory, so once the Hardy player has one of those the advantage goes away- the factory produces twice as much effect, BTW.

The religious race can build a high-tech BC in 5 turns. The hardy race can build the same BC in 4 turns, and maintain more of them.

EDIT: hard maintance 2224. Relgious maintance 4277. I'm not saying these might not need toning down, but they aren't unstoppable.

EDIT again:
"Even if you only have DUC or PPB, you will smash the enemy as you hit with every weapon every time."

Hitting 100% of the time won't compensate if your ships are inferior. PPB isn't an inferior weapon, actually IMO it's more unbalanced (relative to cost to get it vs benifits) than the Talisman.

[ October 13, 2002, 01:07: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]

Re: newest beta patch?
 

You want to know what the solution to the Religious/Psychic combo is? Play games with 0 racial points. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: newest beta patch?
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Phoenix, I agree with everything else in your post except this point. Hitting 100% of the time will compensate for a LOT of dificencies in other areas. Which is a fact you would have learned first hand if you had stuck around a little longer in the Dimension X 2 game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

At one pont Mark was using Destroyers with DUC's and EASILY handling fleets twice the size of his fleets with Lioght Cruisers and suprior weapons and shield technology. And doing it against two other empires simultaneously. It's only been by intensive cooperation between several races, and a couple of strategic mistakes on his part that we were able to take advantage of that has finally brought his empire under check.

But the rest of what you said is right on. I believe it's only because of the ten planet start that Mark was able to get the Tailsman as fast as he did. In a simgle planet start it would have likely taken him so long to get that the advantage it gave him would not have been quite so pronounced.

Geoschmo

Re: newest beta patch?
 

I have a Talisman-equipped opponent in one of my games. The first few encounters- until he stopped my push with a minefield- went pretty badly for him.

EDIT: I'd need to dredge the numbers up, but he had APBs, DNs, and Armor III I had BCs with Meson V and phased shield II. That kind of deficancy wasn't healthly. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

[ October 13, 2002, 03:49: Message edited by: Phoenix-D ]