Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

The Hydrogen car is a reality. BMW have developped the technology in a suitably small and affordable form. They have only to work out how to build "moulded" hydrogen storage units (rather than big 'ol cylinders in the boot) and they're there. Oh, and the small matter of setting up national networks of hydrogen fuelling stations...

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sure there is. Renewable enrgy does take up a lot of space, yes, but the world has plenty of big, empty deserts just begging to be turned into energy farms. Besides, with research, the technology could probably be made more efficient, meaning more power generation per square metre of farm. I doubt it would ever reach the output of a nuclear plant but that would be OK by me.

Also, imagine if every house, office and factory had a solar panel on the roof - you'd hardly see them but you could probably close down a nuclear plant or two.

Cars, too - We already have hybrid electric/ fossil fuel cars, why not a hybrid electric/ hydrogen one? Then you could stick a few solar panels on the roof for the electric motor. Granted, they wouldn't get the car very far on their own, but they would help to reduce the power being taken from the national grid. Add to that those systems you can get which reclaim power from the brakes (can't remember what that's called), and you could probably negate the excess energy consumption you're worried about.

Also, don't forget other renewable sources: Geothermal, for example (although that's limited) and wave power. I think I read that here in the UK we have enough potential for wave power to run the entire country.

Finally, more could be done to reduce the power already being consumed: better heat insulation in homes, people switching off lights they're not using, drinking water not being wasted, walking/ cycling for short journies rather than drive. People wouldn't have to make huge sacrifices to do these things either- saving energy saves money. All it needs is a shift in the way people, businesses and government think.

All that said, it wil be interesting to see if the hydrogen car's water exhaust doesn't turn into a kind of pollution itself... we have the potential to banish petrol fumes and diesel particulates from our cities forever, but at the cost of increased humidity. Will buildings and streets be running with condensation? Will all the excess water affect precipitation?

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't think all solar panels in Manchester can produce enough electricity to illuminate my flat on average "sunny" day http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

And I would't worry too much about water vapor - we'll hardly notice it.

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">People do not get fat from eating meat. They get fat from eating too much food and not excercising enough. Becoming a vegetarian alone will only cause you to lose weight if you don't get enough protein supplements so that your body can maintain its muscles.

It is actually easier to lose weight while not being a vegetarian because your body uses proteins when it breaks down fats. Eating more proteins and excercisng is how you lose weight. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Those fruits and vegetables lack a lot of necessary nutrients that are only found in animal products, and some very specific types of vegetables. But, you have to eat more of those vegetables to get the lacking nutrients than you'd need for an equivalent amount of animal products.

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the land used to graze cattle on is useless for other farming because of low nutrient and water levels.

Further, humans are meant to eat meat, and can only survive without eating meat by eating a huge amount of the few vegetables that contain the amino acids we can't synthesize.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are aware that there are perfectly legitimate reasons to own them?

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

"Let’s note a few points here. Hydrogen is the energy in gas oil and coal. So we have quite a lot at the moment, all we need to do is change the way we refine it. And in so doing, we can contain the carbon, sulfur and other impurities."

Except those are useful for other things. Much easier to use seawater. It's plentiful, it has lots of hydrogen, and the techniques needed to seperate the hydrogen are easily done. (this is also why fusion is an attractive energy source)

Phoenix-D

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

Run electricity through some water, it separates into hydrogen and oxygen. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Most of the land used to graze cattle on is useless for other farming because of low nutrient and water levels.

Further, humans are meant to eat meat, and can only survive without eating meat by eating a huge amount of the few vegetables that contain the amino acids we can't synthesize.

Quote:

Oh, wait, one more: Get rid of SUVs!!!!

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You are aware that there are perfectly legitimate reasons to own them?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You do not want to be around me when I am on a diet high in vegtables. Give me meat and grain.

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

"Let’s note a few points here. Hydrogen is the energy in gas oil and coal..."
Not really -- the chemical bonds are. Breaking or forming chemical bonds creates energy.
H2 cars sounds cool, but the costs would be massive... building a whole new energy infrastructure while maintaining the gas one (for late adopters) woudl be much expensive.
Nevertheless, I like the idea of fuel cell cars.

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

Remember when cold fusion was announced by Pons and Fleischmann? Everybody was so excited! People thought that we'll just put a small cold fusion reactor in each house, and we'll have lots of cheap power. We'll put cold fusion reactors in cars and we'll no longer need to use fossil fuels. Then there was that big controversy when the cold fusion experiment couldn't be successfully replicated in other labs. Some people thought that it was a consipiracy by the big petroleum corporations to suppress the discovery in order to protect their industry. Haven't heard anything about those guys for years now.

Re: hydrogen fuel cell car
 

Just read an article on General Motors new concept 'Hy-wire'. This is the first link that google provided: http://www.time.com/time/2002/invent...ra_hywire.html
It really impressed (the article I've read had many more details) me. And they are now working on fuel cells being able to provide enough energy to drive 500 km without refuelling. Think how much further you can go with your car's full tank? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Everything is programmable and they indicate that the car may become a sportscar! It would be very interesting to try an electric sports car http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
Edit: spelling...

[ January 30, 2003, 08:14: Message edited by: Pablo ]