Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I think you missed the point... it is not about living down a temper or anything like that, it is about expressing subconscious desires in a harmless way (as is playing SE4 and blowing up billions of people, subjugating billions of others, sending whole crews of people off to their deahts, etc.). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

I know playing computer and video games does having a soothing effect on me. I don't really have a temper (I let my wife have hers, though), but a good game of SEIV or Civ or SimCity or any of the multitude of "god" games out there does perk me up. I haven't really like arcade-type games since I was a young teen and they first started coming out. GTA and Half-life and other gorefest games just don't appeal to me. I might play the occassional game when I happen to be in a place that has them, like this past Saturday when I was Chuck E. Cheese for my son's birthday party.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

I used to enjoy playing Tribes for hours on in as my escape from reality. Sitting in a good place picking off players who thought they were good snipers or trying to steal our flag. Ohhhhhh the hours I would spend base raping and killing my opponents. God how I miss the good old days before the game became deluted with cheaters, hackers, and buggy mods. When all the old players played it was like a party on line every night, and most of the day. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif It is hard to let go of the good things in life that had brought you so much fullfilment.

To bad real life isn't more like Web Life.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

Narf,

A note: you haven't provided any rational arguments for believing the things that you do, and I haven't provided any for believing the things that I do as well. I don't think either of us expects to be able to convince the other to change his views, and so that's not the point of my Posts to you.

The point, for me at least, is to be able to better understand your emotional attachment to your religion, why it's personally comforting to you and why it makes sense to you, while on the other hand, I feel like recounting why most forms of organized religion seem so instinctively abhorrent to me.

It would be better if you had read "Living in Sin" in its entirety, especially the afterword by the author that explains how he'd always had a love-hate relationship with Catholicism and even pleads that he's written a novel that he thinks presents Catholicism in a rather sympathetic light. So, please don't think of this as your typical anti-Christian story. Instead, this is a story by someone who is truly in awe of the potential power of religion to fulfill the spiritual needs of people, while being perpetually frustrated by the gulf between religion and reality.

I happen to believe that "Living in Sin" captures quite well the imaginary scenario of an Old Testament style god existing in the world. God sets down rules yes, and the narrator of the story knowingly breaks them, partly because those rules don't seem to make sense to him (and of course, in Catholicism, God's rules don't need to make sense to humans, they only have to make sense to God and humans must accept that), because he thinks that bending those rules doesn't seem to cause any harm and of course, because the flesh is simply weak. Like me, he also deeply resents the thought that God gave humans free will solely for the purpose of being able to freely choose to worship God and sees that as a kind of anachronism.

In the story, God punishes sinners in clear, undeniable ways, though not in such a way that makes God seem like a mechanistic, automatic force, and the punishments are always personal and appropriate. In the story, the narrator expected that the punishment for having a child out of wedlock would be a deformed or retarded child, and is relieved when the child is physically okay. But then he finds out that the child is born to be a prophet, the living voice of God on Earth, utterly pure, powerful and inhuman, and in some ways that is an even worse punishment for the narrator.

My questions are: are you a Mormon mainly because you believe that the "hows" that it teaches are true, or mainly because the values and truths of Mormonism are comforting to you (or "feel right" to you)? If the latter, then which truths and values, and why those? If you truly believe in the existence of an omnipotent, omniscient God who has a specific purpose for you personally, have you ever, even once, felt resentful of that, or felt yourself running out of "elbow room" to create and define values and purposes for yourself?

I'll detail some of my own feelings and attitudes in a later post.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

I prefer the 'wins' in RL over the virtual ones. And the losses aren't too bad. People really have a lot less to lose than they think.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

So you prefer the wins of stealing cars, murdering people, etc. in RL to the virtual ones? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

umm... yes?

While RL 'wins' like talking to strangers, having a clean house, hitting on a girl, or nailing a job interview would seem trivial if you set them in the virtual world, they are nonetheless more satisfying.

And RL provides 'wins' that the virtual world just can't compare with, like owning a house, getting the girl, or talking your way into the job of your dreams.

So yeah, Real Life all he way.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

I think you too missed the whole point...

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

eh?

Go ahead and try again.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

The point was that such video games allow subconcious desires (that EVERY human being has...) to be expressed in a non-harmful way, rather than a harmful way in the real world. It is just like playing cops and robbers, or cowboys and Indians, or other such games as a child. Incidentally, that is why such games are so popular. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif There was never anything about living in a virtual world over a real one or anything of that nature.

[ November 26, 2003, 19:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

Actually, I was responding to Atrocities. <font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I should clarify:

Have you ever dreamed that you were doing something that you really enjoyed doing? Say flying a fighter or perhaps just jettting around breath taking landscapes with your own personal flight pack?

Or haven't you ever wished that people were more like they are when they chat on line. The barriors between race, appearance, other are broken down to the fundamentals, humor, intelligance, etc.

I enjoy what little life I have been blessed with, and am thankful for a lot of the things I have been able to do in life, but I would also enjoy jetting around the country side flying free as a bird without being cooped up in an airplane. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the darker side of things, I have no desire to hurt any one, and I do think that violence breads violence, and when parents use violent video games and television as a babysister, then they are asking for the demented little twisted s*** f***s they end up with.

Believe me when I say that counsolers in the near future will have to deal with more and more youth and try to help them sort out what is real in life, and what is not. Its a normal, breif, human emotional reaction to want to kill someone when your mad, but 99.99% of the time, we don't. In the near future, the kids of today are going to have a real tough time decerning this. It has already begun to happen, and we all know how television, music, movies, and games effect us. Some more than others, but t hey DO effect us.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana"></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Bah. The few people that are that violent are not violent because they play violent video games, but because they are violent by nature.

[ November 26, 2003, 20:17: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Aw, don't excuse them that way. I'm guessing it's just a stray implication, but no matter what someone's background is, they are responsible for their own actions.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

Umm... I wasn't excusing anyone! Where did background come into this? I was talking about violent by personality with "by nature".

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

This is an OPINIONATED post by me. It is not meant to offend.

Normally Fyron you would be correct, a violent person is just violent. Did you know that most violent people seldom if ever play video games, but they do enjoy violent tv and movies?

The thing is that over the Last decade our society has seen a dramatic increase in violent behavior. From Road rage to school shootings. We have also seen an incredible influx of panzy assed behavior from people who want to protect everyone from their rights. Politically correctness has swamped us resulting in normal behavior being labeled as violent.

This is a mask to hid the truth behind. Have you noticed that cartoons such as the Road Runner and Bugs Bunny have been edited and watered down? Even the older cartoons have been Banned or protested because they are too violent. WTF!

Just a few weeks ago a six year old boy took his GI Joe action figure to school, and the school called the police on him because they have a zero tolerance to gun violence. The GI Joe had a pLastic m16 about two inches long.

So the term violence is now being wielded by every panzed assed sissy in America as a catch all term for anything that they don't like.

France was just like this before the war... well they are still like this, no offense.

The French taught their children to go and tell on other children that were being mean, while the Germans taught their children to be aggressive and competitive. If memory serves, France was beaten in a very short amount of time. I know this has really nothing to do with the debate about violence, but I do feel that it has historical significance when compared to the debate about violent tv, movies, music, and video games.

I am like you, I know that these things do effect people, it desensitizes them to violence, thus making violent acts less shocking. A few sick twisted neglected bent individuals who are incapable of understanding the basic concept that we should not kill each other, have no conscience and go off to exact revenge upon the innocent for no GD reason.

Those twisted low life’s are the ones that make the news, especially if the Police find a video game or rap song in their homes.

Lets not blame the criminal, it was not him doing it, it was the violent TV, the video games, the gun industry, ford motors, McDonald, etc. Lets blame everyone and everything for our own pit falls except the individual who is really to blame, the person doing the blaming.

Sure violent video games, and TV do have an effect on people, they do effect some more than others, but over all, most of us are smart enough to know what is real and what is not. However, more and more young parents are using tv, movies, music, and games as baby sisters for their kids, and these kids are the ones growing up with twisted morals and bent psycho logic. To them it is perfectly ok to go to school and kill the kid who called you weird because that is what do on tv and in a video game, you kill your enemies.

These are the ones that need protection, not from violent entertainment, but from their unknowing parents who are often to busy to take notice of what it is their young kids are watching, listening to, or playing.

My dad had a good cure all for this, he'd shut the tv off and tell us to go outside and play. I think if more and more parents chose activity over non activity, then we would have fewer violent people in the world.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

Television is the late 20th/ early 21st century opiate of the masses.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

I keep on hearing about the rising crime rates in the US. I wonder how many are aware that almost all forms of crime in the US have been on the decrease since 1993 after a brief flareup in the early 90's of increased youth violence.

Crime Rates

Note that it isn't crime increasing. It is conviction rates increasing. You could make a healthy case that that is due to the perception of increased crime and a hard on crime attitude.

[ November 27, 2003, 04:25: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

The reason why people are deluded into thinking that crime rates are increasing is because the news media's coverage of crime has been steadily increasing over the Last decade. Every year, more and more of the news is devoted to reporting on crimes, though there are fewer each year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

Do what I do and watch less TV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Even when I do watch it it tends to either by a history or discovery type of channel or the cartoon network. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'll take my opiate straight up thank you very much. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

I get my news Online and from friends and family. Much better than watching an overly biased 1 hour news program covering lots of things that I could care less about.

Besides checking 12 Online biased accounts of something gives you a much better overall view of something than a single biased view. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ November 27, 2003, 05:59: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif Are you calling me deluded? Why thank you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Those statisics are inaccurate. They are customized to reflect information that is desired, and not true at all.

Look at the Governments unemployment reports, they list say 1 million poeple out of work because they are collecting unemployment when the number is closer to 11 million because 10 million people have lost, or used up their unemployment benefits.

So simply put, don't believe anything published by the US Government that reflects a positive. After all, these are the same guys who led us to believe that Iraq had huge stock piles of WoMD, and non have been found yet. (Side not, I could care less about the Iraq thing, but still, it just goes to show you, those putting out the info are not always honest about it.)

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

The figures can actually be verified from other areas as well. And several attempts to artifically reduce crime rates have been uncovered in the past. These were pretty much all the work of local areas such as cities trying to get a better reputation and the figures for those years and those cities were adjusted accordingly. By increasing the crime rates.

If an organization is willing to do that rather than look the other way I am willing to give them a benefit of the doubt.

PS: You can take caution to far as well. Just because one thing from someone is bad doesn't make everything from them bad. If we used that reasoning then after the debut of the Virtua Boy by Nintendo nothing else they made would ever be good ever again. And countless other similiar comparisons and analogies.
IE: Until they do something to lose my trust I tend to trust them, but always with an eye watching for them to do something to lose it. I may be trusting, but not naive. Optimistic Realism.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

I knew it. A double post. Whenever it Posts my Messages that slow it is always a double post. How I hate you double Posts.

[ November 27, 2003, 14:51: Message edited by: Cyrien ]

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

i will post again here, it's just that i've been tired the past week *whine* *whine*.

anyway, it's not the job. i had to quit because i had health-related problems there, which i am kinda dissapointed about. i'm just not getting enough sleep, and posting here takes mental energy, which requires sleep.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">I hope your feeling better soon man. Health should always come before some thankless job.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

thanks, i am feeling good. i'm just feeling tired all the time.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

If you haven't got your health, what have you got?

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

well, generally, some sort of disease.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

And a smart mouth, apparently.

[ December 03, 2003, 12:32: Message edited by: Loser ]

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

yes, i'm horrible at posting here.

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">first, i'm a Mormon because i prayed and got an answer. i've also found that the hows, values and truths are generally comforting and all the truths of it which i have examined, i've found to be either true or needing more study to determine, on a logical basis, if their true. i do believe that the truth's of the Mormon religeon are true. they also feel right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Mormonism emphasizes personal responsibility and accountability, charity, patience, love...all things i beleive in.

well, i have had resentfull thoughts, but...God's my father. setting down values and goals is what a parent does, as well as administering punishments...although i don't beleive that everything bad that happens is a punishment. i can also follow whatever set of value's and goals i want, and i believe that i will be rewarded for the good i do, but, suppose my dad said 'take out the trash and i'll give you $20.' unlikely, but this is theoretical. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif now, supposing i went and swept the kitchen floor. i couldn't expect to get the $20, although i could expect to get a reward of some kind, perhaps money, perhaps a 'thank you'. and i could expect my dad to be a little dissapointed in me.

the story certainly criticises Catholocism, but i'm not catholic and i don't beleive that God gives out unexplained punishments, so that story is at best irrelevent to me. God's rules make sense; Mormon's beleive in an understandable God.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">perhaps because you beleive that Mormons are especially dedicated to their faith, so it's less suprusing. if so, thanks for the compliment. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

well, i'm weird.

if i don't stick to them, there not my principles, are they? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

can't remember well enough to remember avoiding abstract things.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">well, actual evil overlord's need a psychiatrist, not SE, in my opinion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">early childhood does shape a person and can make a person more or less a certain way.
i certainly had a temper before i went through school, but it was an undefined tantrum thing that may well have gone away as i grew up. after i went through school, it was worse.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">my own personal complaint is people that couldn't beleive that their little angel could possible do that! or who just don't care. or actively encourage it. makes me want to find a 2/4.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">that is certainly interesting.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">yep.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">so, how would you find accurate statistics?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">just figured that out, eh? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

Narf P. C. Boom, Reanimator.

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

i felt a certain responcibility to post, since i had said i would...in the beginning of december. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">You have missed the point again. Everyone has such fantasies. SE is only an example. It is just like when kids play "cowboys and indians" or "cops and robbers." Video games are just a different form of the exact same outlet for your subconscious fantasies and desires (some of them, at any rate).

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">What happens in early childhood helps to shape a person, but it is not the only factor. People are naturally predispositioned to certain patterns of behavior from day one. A person's base personality is a combination of genetics (which is random and independant of the parents; this is why you rarely (if ever) see children having the same base personality as their siblings, not even identical twins) and environment (surroundings, experiences, parents (and other family), etc.).

Re: Real World Philospohy
 

<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i wasn't disputing your point. i'm not quite conceding it either, perhaps out of a desire to think about it more, perhaps out of stubberness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">i beleive i mentioned i had a bad temper before i went into school. same point.