Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

Castle-move bug: Sometimes, if an army in province A tries to move to the enemy castle at province C, but enemy army at province B attacks province A, then the army at A will not move.

Bane: In my replay, the bane was present in both battles. The battle at Abysia was due to a god being re-summoned, so I suppose it occurs after the normal movement phase.

One thing - is everyone still using mod version 7.1? If there are different mod versions, that could be causing problems. Unfortunately, I was not very careful with filenames, so downloading a new mod version will overwrite the old mod file... in the future, I will give each mod version a unique (and identical) modname and filename. Sorry about that.

For now, version 7.1 (official version for this game, "Recruitable Rebalance.dm") is attached to the first post of this thread, and version 7.51 ("Recruitable Rebalance 751.dm") is attached to the mod thread. Thus, neither version will overwrite the other.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

I... oh, you know I think this bug IS what happened, SC. Man was (probably) trying to move to your old capital and I was attacking that force from a different province. But not only did Man's army not move, but my attacking army didnt move either. Terribly annoying.

I will take your word for it about the bane. Really didnt recall seeing him (or the woodsmen) in the battle or see them rout for that matter. But I can definitely envision some strange behavior with regards to calling a pretender back.

Oh! Thanks for the warning on mod versions. I downloaded the new version last night for a new game I'm going to play and it overwrote my original. I'll change it before my next turn.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

I'm driving home tomorrow, and will not be able to play another turn between now and Sunday. So, I'll take a couple stales - which is probably OK, considering I am about 3 turns from annihilation and don't have anything to order around anymore http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif But hopefully I'll survive until Sunday!

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

You sure you dont want us to hold the game SC?

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

I'm back!

And I'm still alive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And I recieved zero pm's saying "Here, take this secret reserve of one million gold pieces," so the situation looks grim. But I still have a few points of Dominion!

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

Does anyone have any issues with setting Graeme to AI? He has staled continuously since May 3rd and he has only his capital left at this point. I only ask cause it is looking like the Abysia turn staling will just stall us all till 11pm again as me and Pan are planning on doing our turns immediately after work.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

Fine with me.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

Looks like I'm out for good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Sorry for missing last turn; the lack of "eagerly anticipating" my turn, and a very busy day made me totally forget about it. Anyway, I'll write up a post-game analysis for Jotunheim sometime soon, and I'll be tracking this thread in case any interesting stuff (particularly with regards to unit balance) is uncovered. Good luck, everyone!

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

Sorry I missed all those turns, but my cable modem died and I wasn't able to get a replacement till today. Just set me to AI if you want to.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

No worries Graeme. You were AI for the last turn but Abysia was defeated a few turns ago.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

Sorry to say, but it looks like I'll be with very limited net access in the next days.

After replacing a old 2nd-hand HDD (startup fails) with another old 2nd-hand HDD (just got it some days ago), I'm not only suffering from a very minor data loss (all maps for Railroad Tycoon gone...), but I have severe networking/router troubles.


So if there's anyone with superior Windows networking skills, please PM or email me.

In Rebalance, turn me over to AI or replacement player as you like ...

hope to see you soon (again)
Stefan

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

I'd be willing to act as a (temp or perm) replacement, or as a proxy to submit turn files that you email to me, if you are unable to connect to the server. I don't think I can help with your networking problems, though.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

After stalemating for many turns, I offered Q a draw and he accepted. This effectively ends the game as Man and TC dont really have enough power to significantly threaten either of us alone.

Good game everyone! I really enjoyed myself. Never been the front runner for so long and as a result it was a very political game for me. Quite interesting.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

I enjoyed it too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Even though I never managed to take an enemy castle... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Thanks very much to everyone who participated, and Ironhawk for hosting! If you wish to share your thoughts on which unit(s) you found extremely (or overly) effective, and which units were very (or overly) weak, I would greatly appreciate that. Some things have already changed since v7.1 of the mod, like Longbows going back to non-AP, Mauls being slightly weakened, and White Centaurs being nerfed. But any comments on units (or unit classes) that stood out for any reason would be very useful.

Personally, I found myself fielding large numbers of Jotun Spearmen (with occasional Hirdmen, as money permitted), Vaetti Hags, Longbowmen, 3g Militia, and a few dozen Vaettir for stealth armies. My national mages (other than Vaetti Hags, of which all 4 types are extremely useful) were just bad. Terrible. I found no use for them other than casting Rain on Abysians. The only Priests I built, other than my prophet, were independants. Which, overall, paints a picture of a Jotunheim still lacking in variety. I think the mages need to be cheaper or stronger, and there has to be a good incentive to buy Huskarls who cost more than normal infantry, but have lower protection, and thus lower survivability... Even at 16 gold and +1 morale, I still did not want to buy Jotun Militia (and even high province defence fell fast to any opposition), largely due to food issues. And I still found Jotun Axes to be worse than Jotun Spears, in general.

Most interestingly... I did not seem to have a single unit capable of hurting a Vampire Queen, even one in strong hostile dominion. I found this out several times. And medium-sized armies of Jotun Spearmen, backed by Fanatacism and Devils, were unable to push back an attacking Red Dragon. Hirdmen would have worked much better, so that may have been my fault... but WOW, dragons are tough in Zen's mod!

Once I gained access to Illithids (via The Crater), I realized (IMO, of course) they were a better use of my money than anything else - mages, dirt-cheap militia, powerful Jotun units, maul barbarians, longbowmen, and so forth. And I spent ALL my money recruiting them. Incidentally, they seem starvation-resistant...

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

My notes on balance:

*White Centaurs: They are too good with the lance, they should go back to normal.

*Centaur Warriors: Didn't use them due to the awesome white centaurs. If the sacred ones were back to normal they would be fine though.

*Centaur Archers: Still too expensive, you can get 3 javelin satyr for the same price.

*Satyr Troops: All look about right.

*Harpies: Good price for them, 10 with a black harpy is a good way to make someone pay for only using 1 PD point.

*Centaur Catarphacts: I didn't use them, but they probably have a niche if the white centaur's don't have a lance.

*Minotaurs: I built a few of theses when I had a remote castle with not much resources that needed an army, and I had a lot of gold to spare.

*War Minotaurs: Probably useful in some situations.

*Pans & Pandomoniacs: I've grown attached to their normal large price... it feels like cheating when I can build so many of them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

*Hierophants & Dryads: Fine, I don't think they were changed (nor do they need to be)

*Black Harpy: Fine.

*Cataphract Commander: Fine.

*Minotaur Commander: More expensive than cataphract commanders, same leadership, and worse in a fight most most of the time.

Re: Rebalance Mod game starting, everyone welcome!
 

I found base Ulm to be capable. Tho I would probably not play them in a game without the Level 4 Limit. If any of the battlefield-wide spells had been in play I would probably have been annihilated since I could not counter it with limited Ulm magic.

Here is the limited set of units I purchased as Ulm:
Ultra Heavy Morningstar inf (general purpose troops)
Black Knights
Ultra Heavy Pikemen (for repel vs Jots or later Pan centaurs)
Ultra Heavy Flail, which i actually never got a chance to use, but they seemed like great units to attack a fort gate.

I basically never mixed light and heavy units, building only heavy pretty much uniformly. Occassionally I built some light pikemen to beef up production since I only cared about thier repel anyway.

Never bought a battleaxe, probably wouldnt ever if mauls were still AP. Tho I never bought any mauls either, for that matter.

Never bought any arbalestiers. The super slow rate of fire of the arbalest just cripples that unit. Maybe bump it up to 1/2 rounds with less precision and more damage or something? Can't see anyone ever buying it. Made for a tolerable PD tho.

Never bought any guardians, either commanders or troops. They were decent troops but not worth thier pricetag in terms of combat power and thier defense bonus didnt make up for it either given how easy it is to seige. I'd say bump that defense value up to.. say 5 for the troop and maybe 10 for the commander. Put thier gold cost inline with the normal troops (10-20gp) and count on their captial-only nature to keep production under control. Then you give ulm an interesting advantage in that it can make a couple of forts quite difficult to seige. Seems like a reasonable thing for ulm tho, eh?

Longbowmen were the archer of choice, but of course you've already changed that.

The 3g militia were very useful as patrollers and chaff. Never bought any of the other indy types.