Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

If you look at the time in which I accepted the sub, I hardly see how I could be considered a vet. In fact, if you look at page 8 of this thread, the -first- game that I joined on this forum, did not come to a close until the week -after- I entered this game. Thus, 4 months ago when I joined Divine Might, I am quite certain that I met the criteria for the game itself.

Honestly this just feels like a vaguely hypocritical, personally biased observation on your part. Most of the real vets (people who have been here more than a year, that excludes me) say that this Hall of Fame and whatnot are just for fun, because the relative level of competition between games cannot be quantified. It's obvious that you are not on some sort of crusade to improve the veracity of the list, it's just that you don't like me.

Anyway, regardless of what point in time anyone would have started considering me a "vet" rather than a "newbie", I can't imagine that point was reached at any time before I joined this game, so please find something else to do. I'm quite sure that everyone else would rather that you and I didn't interact - something that I am most happy to oblige them with, if you can bring yourself to do the same (at least until such point as we regain some measure of respect for one another).

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Excuse me, how exactly am I being hypocritical? That is a serious charge, and offensive. Are you saying that my wins were as a vet in games designed for newbies? - as that would be the only way what I said could be construed as hypocritical, as far as I can see.

All I did, following the comments of Lingchih and doncorazon, is that I checked the game and saw that you had subbed into a leading position in a game where the players were playing their second or third games, who then began staling, and never technically conceded; nor did you "technically win" a month ago as you claimed, as that would have involved the game notifying you that your pretender had ascended... At first, I thought you were counting this as a half a victory, as you played half the game and took over the already winning position, but I see from the winning games list that that is not the case.

I guess we just have different standards.

I have never even posted in this thread before this, so it would be rather difficult to claim that I take this ranking so seriously. I'm certainly on no such crusade; merely pointing out the obvious.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

i have no objections.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I also subbed into a noob game, by the request of the other players. I will probably win it (if it does not just peter out due to disinterest), but I'm not sure I will count it as a win here.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Well and like I said, the first game that I joined here was not even concluded until a week after my first post in the Divine_Might game thread, so even if I was walking the line between n00b and something greater, I fail to see how I could be a vet before even finishing a single game.

Certainly if I were to sub into such a game now, it would be only to avoid the entire game being ruined by a powerful nation (hardly dominant, they were large, but had 10k pop in the capital, NO research, and NO site searching done yet) being turned to AI. I'd basically just do fast, minimal turns, and not invade anyone - just to help out.

Anyway, I suppose I'd be willing to call it a half-win - obviously from my last post in the game thread, I was waffling a bit. But I did put a lot of effort into the position, and ultimately felt it was worth something. And yes, I can post the last turn of the game if anyone wishes, since there was a comment that the "game" didn't end naturally, nor did every existing player "technically concede". Most of the games I've ever been in ended without "a true god ascending" in game, and usually with just a few of the stronger nations conceding in thread, and the silence of the rest echoing a lack of overt objections in the game ending.....

God this whole thing seems silly.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I usually look at game threads when people post wins because I like to check out endgame files when they are posted. Most games threads end with players voting and congratulating a winner. That is why your game thread seemed funny and prompted my joke about it being solitaire since you had a single post when you joined in Oct saying how your nation "seems really strong", then there was a single post by another player before the game seems to have ended in Nov with your unanswered post asking for the game to end and referencing someone with 18 stales etc. I didn't even think about you being a vet or whatever in a noob game. It was more a comment on the fact you joined and won in a total of 2 posts.

I did notice looking at the thread though that there were only 7 players, not 8 in that game. Well at the start. I don't know how many you actually had to defeat...

PS I don't really think its silly either though. As much as people may play it off like its not a big deal, I think it does matter. There are a lot of smart competitive people in MP and the HoF is one of the ways of demonstrating mastery of the game aka pwnage. You were quick to point out the 2.5 so I would guess it matters to you. I am writing this now so I guess I care about it a little bit too. As do probably most people who take the time to post their wins here.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Well, I wish someone else had a second opinion. ;) I am ignoring the other poster's provocations at this point, since he's sorely biased - so if anyone else thinks it is that out of the norm, I'll just rescind the whole thing and go back to plotting current and future conquests

I will say, I did just check, and I noted that Zhao refrained from posting the win for Chlorolera, as it ended up being a bit of a Premature Ascension (should see a doctor, Admiral! :p), but I've seen a couple other games posted here that didn't seem like much to be proud of, so I'm just unclear on what is actually considered as justified to be posted as a victory, and what is questionable. Even more confusing is that I am this big bad vet, and I don't know these things yet, even though I watch this thread like a soap opera. :shock:

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Rabe won cbm_flapped on gamdalf's server as LA TC. Yay fewer games!

Oops didnt read the rules. only 3 players really (4 but one never logged in and was turned AI) random map obviously.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

This is a sticky for Wins, right? Not a forum for discussion.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I should be quite high in HoF now for that Kingmaker victory :)

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Byleswar
Winner: Licker
Nation: Niefelheim
Age: EA
Players: 9
Mods: None
Map: Cradle of Dominion
Host: llamaserver
Thread:http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41032

My 2nd win where a main competitor went AI as things were getting interesting. However the position I had was largely unassailable short of some nap cancellations which didn't seem likely.

Even with some extra opponents I had 50+ Jarls the forge had been up for 15+ turns (maybe 20, it did go down once) huge gem income, everything pertinent researched, as many artifacts as i wanted...

So yeah, premature perhaps, but when the game becomes a race to see who can pick up the most of a big AI nations territories it loses alot of everyones interest.

I did nothing special with Neifel either E9N8S6 bless with moderately crappy scales and just rushed Abysia (which may not have been real smart, but hey, it worked) after researching Wolven Winter.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Greenrow
Winner: Psycho
Race: Kailasa
Age: Early
Players: 12
Mods: none
Map: Dawn of Dominions
Game Thread: here
Other: Predefined nations and starting locations

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: MadCradle
Winner: Psycho
Race: MA Caelum
Age: Middle
Players: 11
Mods: none
Map: Cradle of Dominions
Game Thread: here
Other: Random assigned nations

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Megatherium
Winner: Agema
Nation: Pythium
Age: MA
Players: 9
Mods: Worthy heroes, epic heroes.
Map: Aran
Host: llamaserver
Thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=37655

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Tyrant, or whomever it may concern,

I beg indulgence in advance if this is inappropriately posted and for not having read much of the earlier posts for the thread.

I'm considering running my Noobs vs Vets series on a regular basis, game 1 focusing on battle tactics, formations, short term strategy and game 2 focusing on longer term strategic planning, magic, and development. This is intended to be something of a public service boot camp curriculum for noobs, vets pitching in to train, teach fresh green noobs the game. Winning or losing for the vets is not the main goal.

Would it be possible to come to some sort of an agreement, as an inducement(or rather reward) to get more Hall of Famer's and expert vets to join, to credit them or count it as a 1/2 victory for HOF ranking purposes, irregardless of whether they win or lose?

It would be a noble thing to do. Just an idea.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Nope. Noobs vs Vets games don't count, in my book. It's lopsided one way or the other. They are just practice games.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Yes, I concede the games are largely experimental at this point, we are testing whether 2vs1 odds are tenable even with the advantage I'm currently giving to the vet team, though I've yet to have an ideal control group and situation.

However, I will be refining the concept, and if 1.5 vs 1 or even 1x1 works out better (with certain handicaps in place), it may certainly turn out to be a viable training option. You and the other vets who have participated in both games thus far should recieve some recognition, if not an honorary victory, then perhaps something else. IMO.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

:fish:?

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I only count outright wins. If you care to look, I have only one outright win, and that was in a team game. Doesn't bother me though. Outright wins are hard to get. I still consider myself one of the best Dom3 players.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Beer

Victory conditions were to capture and hold 6 capitals for no more than 3 turns. Two nations achieved the victory conditions on the same turn.

Winner(s): Karnoza and Executor
Nation(s): Vanheim and Mictlan
Age: Early
Players: 17
Map: Alexandria
Thread here:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39652

The weirdest game I've ever been in. The two nations that didn't seem to have a big shot of winning the game did it, one that was constantly subbed and seemed week and a rough spot to take and one which was in war with almost everybody, but somehow survived.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

SS- This thread's for tracking strong nations and players. I'd suggest using the forum features for reputation and gratitude to recognize people for contributions to the community.

Ex- From your description it sounds like both players won, but i'm recording it as a tie so's there won't be more points than games. Let me know if you think this is unfair.

Psycho- Gratz, welcome to the Hall!

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

No,no, I don't think it's unfair.
I agree with you.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

hi all,

These data are interesting, yet is there a way to get a % instead of a simple nb of wins ?
I mean, ok LA ermor won 5 on 30 LA games, but how many LA games had an Ermor player ? (ermor is juste an exemple here)
5 on 30 is quite good (~17%) but 5 on 15 becomes huge (33%) :)

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Tyrant, wouldn't HoF be more fair and have more sense if not only wins were tracked but loses as well? Yes, it will require much more work but if, say, player A won 4 of 30 games he was in and player B won 3 of 4, who should be higher in HoF? Current implementation doesn't take this into account at all, sadly:(.
What ese-aSH requests also seems reasonable to me though harder to implement. For me this thread is more information about players than nations just because I may estimate nations by myself.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Both things seem equally feasible to me. Someone would have to go through first posts of each game reported here and extract that information.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

We may collaborate on this. If I go through, say, 20 games, you do and some other people as well, it won't be too hard. After that we'll have to post information and make calculations. Also, we'll probably need 2 HoF's then - one with absolute values and one with percent values.
Really nothing impossible here, imho.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I don't think that system would really be any more accurate in the end. Wins depend on a lot of factors that you're not really considering here. And trying to count enough relevant factors to be accurate would be, well, insane. I think wins/players defeated is a pretty reasonable system. It's definitely not a completely 100% accurate measure, but I think it serves well enough.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

While theoretically I'd like to be able to see the win ratio's in the HoF, (to satisfy my own curiosity if nothing else) I do also agree with Rdonj, that it would be just as open to interpretation as the current system. More importantly, I'm afraid it'll be loads of work to actually gather the information out of the multitude of game threads floating about.

For those still intrested I can provide my own stats though. (Your call whether this means I'm a neurotic control freak, or just that I've played few enough games to remember each of them individually.) I have played a total of 13 MP games in my Dominions career. One of those was a 4-player game and thus not elegible for the HoF (won by Llamabeast) and one of those is still running. (My bet's on Micah to win that one, but we'll see) So that means that out of 11 finished games you can chalk up 7 HoF losses to balance my 4 wins.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Wow, 4 in 11 is good!

I think Tyrant already has enough work on without trying to list all the losing nations as well. If someone wants to do it for historical games, I say go ahead!

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Hm, I currently have 2.5 of 3 here (not counting two team games which we didn't succeed in, sadly). I can't play much due to time limits and I never will. And I also know that there're people with nearly same stats who can't play much as well (Psycho is one of them, IIRC. He performed very good in one game I was a sub in).
So, if we find volunteers we may try to restore the ratios if there's a common interest in them. I think I may process 30-40 games but of course I don't want to do it alone.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

True, I can't play much either, due to RL commitments. I try never to be in more than 2 games at the same time. I've finished 5 complete MP games and won 4 of them (lost only my first - Figment). The 6th is still ongoing.

But, I also like to take over weak or already defeated nations, to check out the nation and to help keep the game interesting for others. So, I've subbed like that several times and, naturally, lost all of those games. I can't remember how many there were and I didn't play them as seriously as those I started.

Ano, I can help with processing some games, if you organize something. Just bear in mind that various subs can be a big problem here.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Yeah I also support the wins/loses system.
It isn't very accurate also, but it's better than what we have now. but bear in mind if someone lost several games it doesn't mean they're a bad player, there's just that fact that better players tend to be killed early just because they ARE better players are a threat like Baalz or someone, I know he's a great player but I prefer to kill, or try and kill such players early on to improve my chances latter on, and I'm in similar situations myself.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Speaking from a player that tries to play a lot and never played SP to learn the game, I look FORWARD to the day I am included in this List of Victors.

The closet I came was Blitz where I was arguably second, While Executor was so far ahead he was just toying with us while he tried out some new things (Congrats BTW Executor).

I have gone from not having a clue at all to just not having a clue after the middle game.

I would hate to finally get my name on the list and see it as 1 win and 104 losses.

The Stanley Cup (Hockey Championship Trophy) for our non hockey playing friends only lists the Winner.

Why downplay a win with stats that don't mean anything.

Good/Great players will see thier name on the list FAR more than average players....

And average players will see thier name on the Rolls of Honor more than bad players.

As far as good players getting taken out first.....why wouldn't us slugs try and take out the threats first.

It just adds to the prestige that thier names continue to be listed despite the odds.

For the rest of us...iF we where lucky enough to take out Baalz (or 1 of 50 players on here) that may be as close as we ever get to this list.

I say leave the list of winners as 'A list of WINNERS'.

When I look down that list I see who is on there, I also look to see which Nations and Era they played....and I marvel at the diversity of the game and the skill of the player that took several nations to the win.

Since it is unlikely that I will ever be on there I am just voicing an opinion of the cannon fodder.

You COULD put up a different site that people could sign up for and report in (kind of like a site called Leadeaters for Strategy War games)and get points for wins and how hard the settings or players in the games where.

Just an opinion...:)

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Hmm, looks like I'm 7 for 14, including 2 losses where the game didn't finish, but I was eliminated.

Losses: Swarm, Rand2, The Gold Lion, War Is Hell, Eventide, and then the other 2 that didn't finish were Coming Storm and New Horizons.

I'm 3 for 3 on team games though, aside from one that was destroyed in a server crash (the first PPP).

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

First a history note- this thread was originally just a tally of winning nations, not players. When Dom3 first came out there was a crop of new players who had not played much, if any, DomII, and they had not groked the scope of the game, the roll of luck, or the diplomatic aspect. They played alot of small blitz games, announced that they had mastered Dominions and began spewing silly opinions about game balance. IIRC someone actually began doing a balance mod before a single regular net game had concluded. Many vets, including me, pointed out that the data sample was ridiculously small, that since a "normal" net game takes months it would be years till we had a decent data sample, that in DomII the evolution of tactics had caused the consensus opinion about which nations were strongest to change considerably over time, that there's a difference between easy nations and a strong nations,etc. Eventually i started this thread so that we would have some data to inform the discussion. I added the HoF later mostly 'cause it's fun, but partially to give newbs a heads up on some of the less scrupulous vets who kept trying to sneak into newbie games under false colors. For me, the nation data and the HoH are primary, and the HoF is a bonus feature.

Second, I would caution against putting too fine a point on the data from this thread. I do think this thread provides some useful data, but it's long long way from perfect. For starters, all victories are not equal. Some games have victory conditions, others do not. Back in the days before the Pankrator sent us the blessed Llamabeast, many games ended prematurely for host related reasons and the leading player was awarded victory long before the issue was truly decided, and others were denied glory in games they had in the bag. Some players are whimps and concede winnable games. I know of at least one player who declines to submit his victories (i presume he does not want a reputation for diplomatic purposes). The excellent Velusian used to be one of the top hosts and many, or even most, of his his games had random nation assignment- in my book winning with a random nation carries much greater glory, and really competitive players do not join games unless they get a powerful nation. Likewise the guy that won with Man is either an effing genius, got really lucky, or faced some weak-*** opposition. Similarly, most of the early victories are cheap in comparison with the more recent ones- with all the excellent info now on the forums newbs are generally much better players than in the early days. I could go on at length, but I hope i've made my point. Wins and losses are not created equal and records are incomplete.

IMO, the HoF/HoH are kinda like the SAT, a high score means something, but a low one does not always. Lingchin has already checked in on this, and i agree with him, there are lots of top players who's strength is not obvious from the halls- Dr. P has but one win, same with Maltease and Llamabeast just to pick four off the top of my head. Ever play those guys? Let me assure you they got game. I don't usually talk smack, but heck, i'll throw myself in there. I've played alot of games and my W/L percentage is just horrible, yet i count myself as a excellent player. I guess what it comes down to is this - and i'll admit a bit of veteran's pride here- when you look at the roster of a new game you join, are you more worried about a grisly vet with one win in a dozen games, or Bill, the newb who is one and three 'cause he won the newbie game? Yea, there's such thing as an ubernoob- heck i fought Amhazair, Xietor and Llamabeast in their first forum games- but i'm still gunna worry more about Hadrian II than Bill. So for me, the HoF is fine the way it is, a guy with three wins, even if it it took him 104 games, has still earned his glory without an asterisk. Unless there is a huge public outcry, I'm leaving the HoF as is.

That said, if anyone wants to mine the data and provide W/L, percentage of nation played, most popular maps, or any other useful info I'll say thank you and post it. I'll also post a second category of glory based on W/L if people want it- we can call the the Legion of Merit or some such thing.

@Micah- ya know, I've kinda suspected for awhile that your batting average was as gaudy as your win total, you are truly an amazingly good player. I've mentioned to my friends but not posted till now that if you manage to make it 2-1 over the next guy I am going to rename it to "The Hall of Micah" :>

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Yeah, and the guy that won with Mictlan also... :p
But seriously, I'm always up for a more challenging game with more vets but there just aren't many of those games.
MA Chronicels was one of them for example, with Calmon, Baalz, Don Corazon and even KO, but half the players stopped playing.
So if anyone makes a random assignment game with stronger players count me in.
Oh and I do believe there are some very good players outside the HoF too.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Heh, no danger of me going 2 for 1 without team games counting. I've been sticking to vet games for the most part lately and they simply take too long since there's no one to steamroll. Arti will be breaking turn 100 easily before it's done, and its on a 96 hour host now. (Maybe if you count the team games in the ratio...that'd put me at 10, if I win the 2 I'm in now I'd hit 12, though both of those are still uphill battles by far) Thanks for the complements though, they are much appreciated.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Yea, Calmon's keeping you in line, but if it weren't for him you'd have a good shot. Wonder if he's still active?

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Its likely that none of those applied to my victorious solo run with Man. LA Man can be a powerful faction after some significant landscaping. Like so many factions out there, they are very vulnerable at the start of the game.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I think he might have been refering more to MA Man, definitely weaker IMO

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Discharge
Winner: Revolution
Race: Patala (Goooo monkey PD!)
Age: Late
Players: 15
Mods: CBM
Map: Glory of the Gods (MP start locations modded)
Game Thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41059
Other: No Ermor, no R'lyeh, no score graphs


On a unrelated note but something you could maybe edit when you add this in...

The first game I won was the LA game Corruption Currently credited to Sum1lost in the middle age section. I was credited with winning EmpiresRising in the LA section, the game that Sum1lost won.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Victoria
Winner: WraithLord
Race: Patala
Age: Late
Players: 15
Mods: Twan's Mist of Deception replacement mod
Map: 15 provinces per player map, 225 total. Attached to game thread
Game Thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...t=39020&page=8
Victory Conditions: None - Concession from other players, or power level over 9000
Hall of Fame: 10
Renaming: On
Graphs: Off

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Epic Battles
Winner: doncorazon
Race: Pangea
Age: Middle
Players: 8
Mods: None
Map: Modified Parganos - Dead seas
Game Thread: here
Ended on turn 74 ~4 months

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I might as well post here. It seems most people think I won the game. :)

Game: Chronicles EA
Winner: Darkwind
Race: Atlantis
Age: Early
Players: 13
Mods: CBM 1.41
Map: Faerun Adventure
Game Thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=41425
Hall of Fame: 15
Renaming: On
Graphs: Off
Note: The game ended rather early (turn 14). Also, I won based on a vote for best story, not actual leet Dom3 skillz.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Chronicles finished at turn 14?:confused:
That was rather fast.

Game: Playtime, EA game
Winner: Executor, by concession

Nation: Lanka
Players: 11
Map: Cradle of Dominions
Thread here>
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39734

Ended on turn 96, about 9 months total
Special thanks to GrudgeBringer. :up:

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

It took a few months to get there. It was a slow game. Most people lost interest, and I was voted winner due to my
stories.

EDIT: For an actual link to the stories, go here.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

Game: Rothfuss
Winner: Redeyes
Race: Pythium
Age: Middle
Players: 11
Mods: CBM 1.41
Map: Cradle of Dominion
Game Thread: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=42004

Ended with a concession, a couple of interesting wars for me early on led to me winning the Ultimate Gateway and Steel Oven, the rest was smooth sailing though a strong Ashdod (who had been trounced in the early wars) and I skirmished before the concession.

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

HoF- Gratz to DonCorazon and Executor, both newly inducted to the Hall. WraithLord has moved up to #3.

Two Patala wins, back to back after years of silence. Just coincidence, or has someone discovered the secret of Monkey Power?

@Darkwind- Technically, your win in Chronicles counts for the halls, but a creative writing victory seems a bit off topic. Do you really want me to count it?

@Revolution/Sum1lost- correction made, sorry for confusion. Do i have Empires Rising in the right era, i can't seem to find the thread?

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

empires rising was a middle age game
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=38358

Re: Victorious Nations/Hall of Honor
 

I was hoping to leave that up to you :) It's not a typical win for a wargame. Honestly, I'd be more inclined to not count it since the game ended too early for any real skill, either in war or in writing, to show up.