Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Oooh, you nasty fellow. I *do* know about the wormhole you just opened into the Wurtuy system. But maybe that's just by accident?
The Irrh-nur invited me (just in time I guess) to send a scout ship through that system, and though my ships is now (beginning of turn 89) in another system, it came from Wurtuy. So I guess that counts for being there to see the wormhole appear..

But I do recall a thread somewhere where people said that if someone tries to separate himself from the galaxy by closing all wormholes, you'd see it if you were ancient race.
Hmm...we newbies will figure it out as we go along I guess.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

You think that's it? You ain't seen nothin yet.

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

I believe that you're only explicitly notified in the log if you have a ship or planet in the system that the warp point appears in, but if you've got that area of space mapped you'll see the line appear on the map regardless of your presence there. Since you're ancient race, you'll see all warp lines appear or disappear wherever it may happen. The same applies to planet creation and destruction, explaining how you could watch that Irha-Nrr Maker class ship chewing its way around the asteroid belt in Cetkirk excreting planets as it goes even before you sent that scoutship there. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Well, it looks like Newbie II might be wrapping up soon. It turned violent after all, and my poor Irha-Nrr have been caught unprepared to deal with war on such an enormous scale. Too many resources devoted to preparations for constructing ringworlds for my pacified species, not enough to building up those 30-ship fleets necessary to go head-to-head with a big human player. I am now attempting to negotiate terms with Dragonlord to preserve the lives of as many of my pacified species as possible.

I finally _did_ learn something new about playing against human players by playing Newbie II; they are much better at betrayal than the AIs. An excellent lesson for PBW players, I recommend it highly. I knew it intellectually beforehand, but until you actually _see_ the empire you've spent two weeks (realtime) building in the spirit of goodwill and peace for all races suddenly confronted by military forces you haven't prepared in the slightest for it's hard to keep it close enough to heart. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

All hell is breaking loose in Newbie II.
I know some other people follow this thread as well so I'll try to give them some info, although it's a little hard if you can't see our galaxy map.

There's some hilarious stuff happening. As Phoenix mentioned, he's done something odd or nasty, and I'm trying to figure out what it is. I got a message from Beedee hinting that the Certadsh (Phoenix race) will be turning over all non-certadsh inhabited planets to the Irhh-nur. Maybe that's what Phoenix meant. I had been preparing for war for a long time, cause I knew If I didn't I would not win, Beedee has a higher economic base than me.
Just so you know, there's four human players. Beedee and myself are tied in first place with a score of 1.7M, the Certadsh (Phoenix) are a distant third at 600M, and the Tzeech race has 450M.
The Tzeech are under my protection, the Certadsh have had a Partnership with Beedee for a long time.

The map is a medium (i think) spiral, a true spiral. There is a circle of 10 or so systems in middle, half controlled by Tzeech and half by Beedee / AI. From the circle branch off three arms, the west arm curls to the west and splits off, these are all Beedee planets. The north and south arm curl to the east, run along the eastern edge of the map and meet up. I control the eastern 40% or so of the galaxy. So, barring wormhole openers, I only had to defend two wormholes, the ones in the north and south branch which lead to to the center.
Phoenix owns about 6 systems north of the central circle.

But Beedee (thus also Phoenix) has had Stellar Manipulation IV for some time now and wormholes are springing up all over the place, though not into my core systems yet.
I opened a wormhole to connect my east central system to the part of the center ring that the Tzeech control.
(does this still make sense?).

Anyway, I declare war a bit sooner than expected because Beedee spotted one of my fleets near the north branch border.
I anxiusly awaited the next turn. Through the element of surprise I was able to destroy about 15 of Beedee's ships, and will destroy some outpost planets soon. (we both have about 120 ships total).

Now here's what shocked me: when I opened the Last turn, I first looked at the battle reports and saw all went well. Then I scroll down in the log and see *a star has blown up* !!! Oh my God !! This star was in the Qornor system, which is about the furthest removed from the enemy as possible !! (bottom right corner of map).
Though I think that no enemy has maps of my systems, I had gifted that map to Beedee some time ago because I was showing him how I was dealing with the Last AI race there that was close to me. Remember, I'm a newbie, have never dealt with advanced stellar manipulation or WMG's or any like that before.

So I panicked. For a few minutes I was *convinced* that the enemy had somehow magically gotten a ship through 6 of my systems undetected, and could now happily follow the string of systems like a string of pearls, blowing up stars along the way.
Then I realised this was probably a catastrophe (from the ones that happen like every 100 turns). The timing was very bad for that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I lost 7000M colonists, and 22 ships to that stupid star. (this was an outdated fleet which was invading planets from the Last AI).
Oh well, saves on maintenance.
Too bad cause there were some good planets in that system.

Meanwhile, I see that Beedee is opening up several wormholes from his central nexus system towards the north and south branches of the spiral. Ironically, since he did not expect my attack, that now puts my fleets within 2 jumps from his nexus rather than the 7 jumps it would have taken before. However, I think Beedee isn't quite the newbie, since his new wormholes terminate on top of a core planet of his, which is assumedly heavily defended.

We'll keep you all posted on further developments http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

PS: the star destruction led me to a question about cloaking: I have sats with Level 3 cloak detectors everywhere, of the Hyper Optics kind. Can these detect all cloaks or do I need to research the Gravitic sensors as well? Is there something like Gravitic Cloaking? (maybe as a racial ability?)

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

OK, time for me to spill:

What I did was throw the balance of power totally out of wack. We've been doing a bit of RP, especially between BD and myself, and the Certadsh history is catching up to this game.

The Certadsh have an Enemy, that chased them from their previous galaxy, reducing system after system to ash. The Certadsh made it.. barely.. and have been in a state of war for over 500 years, both here and there. It's the reason they're so xenophobic, along with their Neutral happyness type (which is a PAIN to keep happy..)

Now, I decided the Certadsh are going BACK, for revenge. The initial plan was to give all ships and planets not in my core systems to BeeDee's Irha-Nrr, and destroy the other ships, abandoning the planets. Problem: SE4 won't let you abandon your planets with over 50m people!

So I donated much of my equipment and planets, and am in the process of destroying the rest. Suddenly the third place player drops to 5th, and all hell breaks loose. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Roleplay is what's killed me, too. My race, the Irha-Nrr, also have a history; they are descended from machine life forms created by an organic species that went to war with itself and used the Irha-Nrr as a weapon to destroy themselves in the process. Since then we've dedicated ourselves to protecting every sentient species we can from genocide. I think I wound up spending far too much time building troops, preparing for ringworld construction (I _just_ got started, darnit), and generally mopping up AI planets with the minimum of enemy casualties. I _thought_ that I'd managed to maintain a chordial relationship with Dragonlord, but he's obviously been gunning for me for some time now and building up his forces for this sneak attack (I didn't buy your "military coup" justification for a moment, Dragon; those ships came pouring in on three fronts the turn immediately after Phoenix upset the applecart. My dear trusted ally was setting this up for quite some time while we discussed peace. :)

Lesson number one for newbies: Pragmatism first, RP second. There are going to be players in the game with you who have the philosophy that in order for them to _win_, it is necessary for you to _lose._ Even if you don't approach the game that way yourself, be prepared for it in others. :)
In reference to Dragonlord's analysis, now, to provide a view from the other side.

Heh. I was thinking of accusing you of being non-newbie myself, Dragon. I am facing clearly unwinnable odds, you hit me at a really bad time. I think I've got enough combat ships to take out one or maybe two of your three fleets, but they are currently scattered all over the place mopping up pissant little Krill colonies. I was planning to use the nice shiny new warp openers to help gather them all together into a larger, more centralized force, but instead I'm now having to frantically re-close those new warplines as a delaying tactic while my surrender Messages get through.
Lesson two for newbies: ten ships in a single fleet is worth a hundred ships each on their own. Especially when most of those hundred are nowhere near the front you're trying to defend. :)

Another big problem with my existing fleet is that, since I haven't faced anyone with phased polaron beams yet, I stuck with ordinary Shield Vs for their added strength. Lesson three: If you research your way up to Shield V and then think "nobody's using PPB and if I add another tech level hitting "upgrade" will just weaken my designs," invite a friend over and have him start punching you in the face until you realize it's good to have defences available against all varieties of attack. :)

That central planet I've been opening warp lines from is _not_ heavily defended; I started building the defensive starbases only after I started opening the warplines. This was such a stupid mistake I won't even put a lesson number on it, it's the same one the Romans made with their roads. Paths which let your defence fleets move rapidly around your empire will _also_ allow their attack fleets to move rapidly around your empire if you don't blockade them well.

Of course, since in this case Dragonlord also has warp opening tech, it's vital to have a highly mobile defence fleet. There's no way to predict where exactly the attack will come any more, once that tech is in play. Which leads me to lesson four that I learned: Static defences are useless without ships to back them up. One of his attacking fleets hit a huge frontier world that I'd stocked with thirty weapons platforms, and before it was glassed they managed to take _one_ of his ships down to 50% damage. Maybe I just chose a bad mix of weapons, but in any event he could have chosen to simply bypass that planet and strike deeper into my territory instead.

Oh, lesson five; know thy enemy and defend in depth. Treaty or no treaty, I should have had observation ships and satellites a system or two deep beyond my borders. If your dear trusted ally refuses to allow you to place surveilance like that, start building your preemptive strike force immediately. :)
Man, it's been way too long since I read Sun Tzu. Maybe I should force myself to write an essay about SEIV and Sun Tzu before I play another PBW. I'll post it here if I do. :)
BTW, Dragon, I must express shock and dismay on behalf of the Irha-Nrr that you would think we had committed such an atrocity as to destroy the sun of an inhabited system. Nay, it is _you_ who are committing the atrocities; this very turn your fleet annihilated a defenceless Xiati homeworld that you had claimed only Last turn to be intent on "liberating" from my protection. Shame on you. :)

Oh, one Last gripe; I shouldn't have played a race as sensitive to civillian casualties as the Irha-Nrr in a game which had surrender disabled. I guess I'll just have to surrender the _hard_ way. :)

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Drat, I forgot to mention one of the most important things I learned in this game; forget everything you learned when practicing against the AI. The AI sucks in ways that no human ever would, so by learning to beat the AI you're learning to make grievous errors when playing against a human.

This newbie game was extremely useful for me, I recommend something like it to everyone who's new to PBW. Just make sure you're psychologically prepared to get your *** handed to you at any moment (thus revealing a major oversight in strategy at the same time. :)

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

In fairness, you probably would be having a better time if I hadn't pulled that stunt http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Having your ally, who just happens to be #3 in the game, vanish in a matter of turns..epsecially when my static-but-invisible defenses would have slowed Dragon down (minefields. Lots and lots of minefields) a bit..

EDIT: BD, you little.. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Anyway, I hit the "finished" button for my empire. The AI should take over what's left, so unless the Dragons and tzeech go at each other's throats, game's over. (remember victory condition DOES allow for peace)

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 20 July 2001).]

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Well, he blew through a 56-mine field down in Narcisston, so it might not have slowed him down much.

I agree that your stunt is what set him off, but I think it would have happened anyway. I was willing to share the universe, and I mistakenly believed him when he told me he was too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Hah, Certadsh parinoria was good for once, eh? http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif Sneaky little..Dragon was defintely the winner of this one.

I'm picturing the Irh-Nrr as a kinda of benevolent Rage right now, mainly because of that Last message..

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Just to let you all know that this PBW is cool. As far as RP goes, unless it's setup in the game design and part of the conditions of winning, then the RP should be replaced with PR = public relations. This is what I have been doing with both the Certadsh & Irha-nrr. After I walked into this game as a take over player, I evaluated the empire and divised a plan of PR. Since all of you, out ranked me in score, systems, ships, and resources, I decided on a appropriate number of ships to maintain. Then I converted all planet facilities not need to support my designed empire economics in research centers. I have focused heavily on completeing techs, and thru PR I have gained techs and bought time to gain better techs than some of you are cuurrently using.
This is a more detailed response to Dragons first comm to me earily in the game. I was not going to be a sitting duck for anyone. "You can come see me, but leave your guns with the doorman."

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Heh. I've managed to swing a subjugation treaty with Dragonlord. First time I've ever been on the recieving end of one of those. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

My net resource production after tarrif is now exactly half of my maintenance expenditure, and I have zero reserves. Hopefully I've scrapped and mothballed enough junk that I won't lose massive chunks of fleet to neglect, but in any event there's no way I'd be able to field a force sufficient to stop Dragon from continuing his genocides.

The Irha-Nrr are infinitely patient and infinitely benevolent. We will wait quietly, humble servants of the Dragons, and perhaps one day yet we will find a way to make the galaxy safe for all life forms. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

OK, time for my next response.
Seems like I have pretty much won the Newbie II game, with Beedee throwing the towel after the first hostilities. Frankly I had hoped he would put up more of a fight.

Regarding mines: I never send a fleet into hostile territory, especially territory that was been well developed for years, if I don't have the capacity to sweep 100 mines with that fleet.

Regarding my betrayal: like in any game, I play to win. In this specific game, the only way to win (because of victory conditions) was peace for 1.0 years. I have never actually won a game like that but I assume it means that if all races are at peace with each other (and all AI races have been eliminated) then after 10 turns he with the highest score wins. I could have tried the peacefull route, and in fact did for a while, but Beedee was keeping up with me every step of the way. In fact he was usually slightly in front, score wise. Therefore the peaceful route would not work, and I assume that he chose to role-play his race the way he did precisely because of the victory conditions.
Furthermore, we expected that he had the same plan as we did. Namely, strike a blow against the other to knock a few 100M points of his score, then make peace and wait 1 year. Circumstantial evidence pointed that way, his number of warships in space consistently kept in step with ours. Looked like an arms race. He also built a forward resupply space station in a nebulae next to my border, which was clearly intended for future fleets. So I don't entirely buy the story of having caught them completely unprepared and by surprise.

As for the Certadsh, I didn't know they were pulling out of the game till I got some hints from Beedee and read the details here. I still wonder why Phoenix did that, were you tired of your role in 3rd place?

To keep within the roleplaying (pacification of AI species, not killing civilians) We went along with this as much as possible (for amusement) it was a good storyline. The Irra-nur have kept up that role pretty consistently. We never suspected them in the blowing up of the star, we thought it was the "trick" the Certadsh spoke of, and really wondered how they pulled *that* off.

As for the Xiati homeworld: I did not remember to check the race of the colonists. All I saw was a single big Irrh-nur controlled planet in a very strategic system, your main forward resupply base. The Tzeech had also told us that you considered that planet to be very important.

The Irrh-nut still have some 90 warships unaccounted for, and I a bit wary that they may suddenly show up through a wormhole into my core systems.

The offer of a subjugation treaty puzzled me, but I jumped on it since it would give me all his ship designs plus minerals I can well use. The Tzeech suspect that this is but a temporary ploy, in order to buy time to regroup and use the impressive economic might of the Irrh-nur to build a fleet against us. (tough though while paying a 40% tariff). If BD thinks this is the next best thing to surrendering, why not just surrender? Here in the forum I mean, he could just say he gives up and we can stop playing.

For now we'll continue, and cautiously explore his systems while reaping the benefits from the subjugation treaty.
If what BD says is completely true, then not even a sudden alliance of all three humans against me could stop me now, I think...
And I don't think you can get the Tzeech to betray me, after all the tech I gave them and my fleets ready to pounce wherever it's necessary http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

And yes, the three-pronged attack against Irrh-nur systems was long in the planning. Initially as defensive forces, then as we grew we contemplated an attack. The original plan was to create a wormhole into a backdoor Certadsh system (assumedly badly defended) and proceed to wreak havoc there with our central fleet. Later, when we found out that the Certadsh weren't really a threat, we changed tactics. We coordinated our attack with the Tzeech, so that we would first draw Irrh-nur attention to one place, and two months later the Tzeech would invade on another front. This, I think, has been pretty succesful and also very entertaining to plan and execute :-)

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Oh yes, one thing I forgot to respond too: the Irrh-nur have been building starbases like crazy,they had 22 while we had 8. We had no way of knowing if these were construction facilities or heavily armed wormhole defenders, so we got quite suspicious of Irrh-nur intentions.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

You could've _asked_ what those space stations were. The Irha-Nrr tended to be very open, the only reason they ejected your cloaked scout ship was becaus you were being so suspiciously sneaky about it in the first place. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I built that nebula base because I'd misremembered which of the red nebula bitmaps was the "100% impenetrable" one and figured it'd never be seen, so why not? It was something I'd never done before in a "real" game, and I figured at some point in the far future if the Narcisston colonies immediately behind it got trashed I could use it as an emergency subsitute resupply point for my defences. Phoenix will vouch that I haven't even sent scout ships past that system since my first mapping foray in the first year or two of the game, he's been my partner the whole time and would have seen.

As for the victory conditions, I really didn't care who was first or second or whatever; I just wanted that year of peace to come about as soon as possible. The only time I ever care about the score when playing is when I'm worrying about triggering MEE, other than that it's a completely abstract and pointless number IMO. If you were so concerned about finishing that final year in "first place" I'd have been willing to gift you stuff until you got your wish. It's easy enough to pump your score to dizzying heights by just building big empty ship hulls. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I guess I was just RPing this one too much. That's why the subjugation treaty, too; I figured it'd buy the Irha-Nrr as much time as possible to continue stashing those "archive pods" all over space so that after they're destroyed there'll be a better chance they'll be able to restart again in the future. If you want to declare victory and end the game at this point, I'm willing.

Got a new race already playing a second game now that's explicitly intended to be RP-centric, so perhaps I'll do a little better. I'll be more careful about my defences this time, too. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

So do we continue with the game under these new situations? Or are we declaring victory to DragonLord? And how does the end of the game process proceed? Do we continue playing out the turns or does the game just get closed?

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

That Dragonlord - he's just mopping up former first place Nostropholo in Newbie I. I'm not sure if he's going to turn on me next...

------------------
Visit the Spoogy Federation at:
http://spoogyfederation.tripod.com

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Two players- I hit the finished button, the AI should take over.

As far as the end game goes, your guess is as good as mine. I think "peace" means everyone wins though (damn that sounds trite http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif)

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

I'm willing to keep on playing, I guess there's always the chance of something unexpected happening. But at this point it all seems to be a matter of mopping up; I don't think I'll be able to build up enough equipment to do anything significant in a year's time, and there's only a handful of AI systems remaining to be pacified. Phoenix has devastated himself quite thoroughly too, and though the Tzeech may have good tech they don't have the resource base to do anything spectacularly disruptive (unless you're hiding a couple of sunbusters in there or something http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Beedee, I'm sorry, I guess 'm just more of an agressive schemer than you are :-)
No hard feelings? I sure don't want to get a reputation of a backstabbing schemer, I'm in another PBW game with 10 humans (now 5 left) and you can check there that I always stick with my allies. Although in that game I am now on the receiving end of allied betrayal... Hmm I did scheme there against my neighbor though, with two other humans against him. But he was just being too naive to trust me too far.. One thing I learned from that other PBW game is the concept of "checkerboard alliances" meaning that in such a crowded galaxy, your neighbors are your natural enemies, while the next neighbor over is your natural ally, and you always try to scheme with the next guy (so position 1 and 3 in a 1-2-3 line-up, cosmo-graphically) against number 2.

Oh, two more small things came to mind about Newbie II: BD, you complained about the destruction of a Xiati homeworld. But I just checked, for instance in Lundra there are two gas giants with 4000+ population, presumably ex-Eee homeworlds, under your control. If I click on them, I can't see of which race the population is made up...
So in the case of the homeworld in Tyrik, for all I know it contained Irra-nur settlers (which were an acceptable target within our role-playing constraints).

You also mentioned earlier you did not buy my excuse for the war declaration, the "military coup" that went on within the Dragon regime. I was trying to set up the roleplaying for that earlier, hoping I had given you enough hints. Remember the Messages about a faction in my government being pissed off at you for "policing the galaxy" ? And that I was barely able to keep them in line? That was a prelude to the military coup :-)

Oh and if score wasn't important to you, weren't you playing to win? What was your ultimate goal (outside of roleplaying) for this game?

I must say, you roleplayed well, consistently, and it was a great deal of fun. I have never spent so much time sending lengthy Messages to other players. I hope you enjoyed that as well, and once again, I hope there are no hard feelings. (No sore losers :-) We can start a new game where you can hand me my head on a platter http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Oh, no hard feelings. I guess it's imposible not to feel a _little_ miffed when after 20 days or so of work one's empire gets trashed so quickly and completely, but in the final analysis it's just a game. Well played. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

The Xiati world was large with an oxygen atmosphere. If it was inhabited by Irha-Nrr, it would have been a domed colony and could only have held a population of 960M. But there were about 4000M present, so they couldn't have been Irha-Nrr. I guess it's an understandable oversight, but it happened to be an Irha-Nrr emotional hot button. When those people were wiped out was when I rolled over and gifted you everything; the Irha-Nrr would do anything to protect those lives, including surrender.

Probably why the Tzeech figured that planet was of such strategic importance to me. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

The thing I "didn't buy" about the coup was that the general who took charge afterward was the one who was wholly responsible for the attack on my territory; it was clear you'd massed those fleets on the borders for a while previously (including in Vintidrin right after we'd agreed to make it a demilitarized buffer http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif). I'm assuming of course that you were laying the blame for it on him; if not, then the misunderstanding was mine.

As for my goal, it was only what the Irha-Nrr had been spouting off about to everyone the entire time; I just wanted everyone to live in peace with each other and not commit genocides and stuff. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Now that the surprise of my stunning defeat has worn off, I think things wound up ending quite well all things considered. I've developed the "character" of the Irha-Nrr quite a bit more in this game than I did in all my previous single-player ones, and I think that in my next revision of them I'm going to record the events of this game in their general history.

It would probably have wound up a bit of an anticlimactic ending if we'd just mopped up the AIs and then run out the clock, after all. I'm just sorry I wasn't prepared enough to provide more fireworks in the finale. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Guys, I am confused now.
Are we continuing the Newbie II game or not?
Cause it will be a boring drag to micromanage the 25 or so planets I just got from BD, every single one of them scrapped till nothing was left standing on it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif

Phoenix, I assume you offered the Partnership treaty just so you can take a look at my empire?
Didn't you say you put the Certadsh and Irrh nur races on AI control?

Lost Dragon

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Heh heh heh. I wasn't about to have you _profit_ so easily from your attack on me. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'm a little confused too, perhaps we should take the discussion to the game's forum over on PBW? The strategy discussion seems to be dying down now.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Man, do you know what happened to Slargos in Newbie I? It's been more than 24hrs and I would like to get some turns in while I can...



------------------
Visit the Spoogy Federation at:
http://spoogyfederation.tripod.com

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Spoogy, I've been wondering about same in Newbie I...maybe he gave up?
Why didn't the turn get auto-processed when we went over the deadline?

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Newbie 2- don't ask me what's going on, the AI's running the show. You're free to give up, obviously http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Newbie 1- I goofed with the turn settings; it wasn't on automatic. It is now.

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Phoenix, in Newbie II, your empire is indeed listed as "dead" meaning the AI took over for you. BD still seems to be in the game. Weird thing is, all three remaining players have uploaded their turns but it is not automatically processed...

Still not sure if we should bother to continue with this game. Beedee? General ? What do you think?

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

ARG! It keeps "undeading" me http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Can we all agree to stop sending in turns for Newbie II? I just sent in a turn but spent 5 minutes on it rather than the usual 40. It's no fun anymore now that my main opponent has given up.
Phoenix, if all agree, close the game.

I'm all for starting a discussion on the next (semi?)newbie game though. How would you like to see Newbie 3 configured, how would you change your race, etc. ?

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Well, if BD is going to use the Irh-Nrr (if he's playing at all..) we should throw the Rage in there, just to watch the chaos http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

If you all are planning another newbie game, what would be the limit to how many people you would allow? And when would you plan on starting?

-Hotfoot
"Enter Prince Mortova..."

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

We'll see what everyone thinks. I'd like to keep em small though.. Fleetwars, a game I'm in with 8 players, is just taking too long per turn.

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

I'm in Letharg's PBW game, 10 humans and 10 AI's. Lots of fun, only marginally slower than our newbie games were. At top speed we did 3 turns a day, usually one a day, won't ever reach the record we had in Newbie I of 8 turns one night.

I'd say 6-8 players is about right, plus maybe another 6 AI races (non-neutral). AI on high difficulty, medium bonus. Intelligence disabled (due to 1.41 bug). Spiral arm Large galaxy. Starting with at least 3 planets, max 5 planets start. Good planet starting value, to get to the interesting stages faster. Victory conditions: 400% of second place player, or 1 year of peace after 5 years. 3000 racial points.

How does that sound? If you all like it I might host it myself. Invite any friends whom you know from other games , knowing that they roleplay well.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Phoenix, it seems like in Newbie I the replacement for Baal is also giving up, he's missing turns. What do you suggest we do with this game, cause I know that at least Capt. Spoogy wants to continue it. Find another replacement? Set Nostro race to AI control?

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

I think I'm ready to stick a fork in Newbie II as well. If the General's willing, then that's all of us. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would indeed be interested in playing another newbie game, it'd be nice to test out some of the strategy that I've learned in the course of this one. But I'm not sure if it would be fair to call myself a _newbie_ now, and there are others who want in. Think I should?

Maybe I should try running one of these newbie games myself, come to think of it. Then I could be a newbie administrator. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

The game admin isn't that difficult, actually. It's all in the setup- once that is done, it pretty much runs itself.

Rematch perhaps? But with different settings, and no team mode?

I'm about ready to stick a fork in newbie *1* actually, since Dragon is in an overwhelming position again. I kinda got stuck with the cheap part of the galaxy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Phoenix, I agree, Newbie I is not much fun anymore either. My main fleet is glassing Baal's planets, another fleet is defending my frontier, and a third is in position in case Spoogy wanted to attack me.

I think I will set up a new game on PBW and invite you all. I'll post the game config shortly, I didn;t get much feedback here about how people would like it. I hope changes can still be made to a game config before the game starts.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Guys, I have just configured a new game on PBW called "Spiralus". (hey, I ran out of imagination). I would like all of you from Newbie I and II to join in.
Here is the game description :


Spiralus takes place in a medium sized Spiral Arm.
This game is the succesor to the Newbie games, and probably best suited for intermediate PBW players.

Starting resources: 20000
Starting planets: 3
Home planet value: Good
Score display: Allied only
Technology level: Low
Racial points: 3000
Quadrant type: Spiral Arm
Quadrant size: Medium
Event frequency: Medium
Event severity: High
Technology cost: Medium
Victory conditions: 400% of second place player, or 1.0 years of peace, conditions apply after 6.0 years.
Maximum units: 1500
Maximum ships: 200
Computer players: Medium
Computer difficulty: High
Computer player bonus: Medium
Neutral empires: No
Other game settings: Intelligence is disabled because of the 1.41 CI bug. 3000 racial points so you can tweak your race just how you want it, without having too many abilities. Remember to reduce "cunning" to 50%. We have a low-tech start so make your early strategic research decisions well.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Hey folks, just read the Posts and will stop sending turns in on NewbieII game, and DragonLord, I will get in on your game. I'm also working on a game. It will be called "King of the Cosmos". Not finished yet with the custom map and AI designs. Once finished, the goal is for the players to work they're way thru the cosmos against other players, AI, and system traps to take control of a single sphereworld. No intellegence, warp weapons, cloaking, killing off of AI or other players. I'll try to get it finished soon.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Uh, Dragon, isn't that ship limit kinda low? Considering the fleets that were being thrown around in Newbie 1, let alone 2..

I just hit "finished" for each race in Newbie 2. That SHOULD end the game.

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Phoenix, yes I'm a bit worried about that ship limit too now. But I don't think there's a way to change it now, short of scrapping the game and creating a new one?
Then again, so far in none of my PBW games have I had more than 200 ships in play, I wouldn't be able to support it. And given the map used for Spiralus, unless you have real bad luck, you shouldn't need more than two fleets to defend your borders.

Also, do you know what the Statistics display on the game admin screen is for exactly? does that function work? I checked all the checkboxes (except for Intel) just in case, so you can keep tabs on how your allies are doing.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Haven't seen the stats stuff myself.

As for changing the game settings- you do that in SE4. The PBW description is just text, you have to set everything up in SE4 then submit the first turn. Don't forget the password!

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Great, I will up the unit limit to 2500 and the ship limit to 500 or so. How exactly do I distribute the first turn? All I have now is a Spiralus.gam file. Does a button get enabled on the PBW site or such, when we have 7 players?

BTW we are doing nicely, we already have 4 out of 7 players within hours. If you know any good players from other games you are in, especially ones who roleplay well and don't always wait to the Last minute for turn uploads, please invite them to this game. I already convinced "Shoujo" from another game to join.
Once we get started I think I'll start another thread on this forum so we can discuss our game here. I think Shrapnel is faster and easier to use than the forums on PBW, and I check here every day anyway.
Besides I don't think people would mind, we know some of them even follow this thread even though they weren't in any of the Newbie games.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Just took a look, it appears I can't open up the game I created and edit it, I'd have to re-create it with the same settings except for the unit/ship limit. No problem.

If I have to do that anyway, are there any other changes desired? I'm in doubt about score display, either allied or all. "All" has it's pro's and con's, but with intel turned off maybe that would compensate a bit.

Bear in mind that on this map you are less likely to be dealing with 5 neighbors at the same time (like we did in the Letharg game, Shoujo), so comm channels become more valuable as trade items. Being centrally located will give you the benefit of multiple trade treaties to grow quickly, but will make you a target later on as people have to pass through you to get to the other side of the galaxy.

I am using a map that I once generated in the random generator and liked so much that I saved it. Yes, that gives me the advantage of knowing the map beforehand, but I'm ancient race anyway so I don't think it matters.

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

You don't need to remake the game, just post a news item with the changes. None of what you set is final!

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

What I meant was, remake the game within SE4.
Basically deleting my current Spiralus.gam file and making a new one.
Right?

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Umm, you can't make the game yet. Aside from the map, which can be imported.

See, the players have to be placed in a specfic order, using their empire files. You don't have the order OR the empire file yet.

Phoenix-D

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Uh?
OK bear with me, this is my first time as a game host. What's the process?
Once we have the max number of players, will PBW automatically email me their emp files?
And only then do I create the game, manually adding the players, generate the .gam file, upload that to PBW, which distributes it to everybody for their first turn?

Am heading to the PBW FAQ now to see if it's explained. (Guess I should have done that sooner).

<10 minutes later>
OK, read the FAQ and understand the process. Sorry for bothering you :-)

[This message has been edited by Dragonlord (edited 23 July 2001).]

Re: PBW \"newbie game\"
 

Just don't forget the password! PBW doesn't like that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Phoenix-D