Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

Would it be possible to postphone or work with a 48hr hosting schedule over the labor day weekend?

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

When do you want the turn to process again?

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

So now I have Abysia AND Sauromatia going to be breathing down my neck. Obviously the Abysian magmamen are too idiotic to realize that Sauromatia is a much larger threat than the Lankans, a threat that grows by every passing turn as they gain more and more lands which Abysia cannot even touch, but who has ever accused them of having brains in the first place? Indeed, I am quite sure that Abysia will succumb to Sauromatia just as Vanheim did, just as Yomi is, and just as I will. In fact, I hereby pledge that I shall fight the Abysians to the best of my ability, while letting the Sauromatians take over the heartlands of Lanka! If they wish to help Sauromatia grow even larger, I shall grant them that wish.

Well, I guess that's it for me. I'll be going AI... But not just yet.

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

I'll try and get to a computer over the holiday, but can't guarantee it. I will definitely be back later in the day on Monday (eastern US). So either postphone until then or have a longer schedule (eg 48 hours) should both work, I just got turn 24 in.

Thanks.

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

You left out Argatha, I'm eating them to, and I got a good part of Atlantis before he left. If you're gonna list my conquests, might as well make the list complete... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Let me know if I can facilitate your egress in any way, I won't even shoot at the withdrawing monkey backs.

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

Wait a second, these monkeys aren't egressing, they're attacking despite the fact that our NAP hasn't expired. Guess one really can't expect too much honor from a monkey, and worshiping demons doesn't help much in that regard I suppose. It is good you have decided to entertain with your struggling rather than presenting your urine soaked underbelly with tail tucked low as you promise, but the mild advantage you gain by lying not once but twice and abusing the consideration I've shown by giving you notice before attacking seems a meager return for molesting your honor and showing all how far Sensori's word can be trusted. Really, if you're going to bugger your own honor you really should milk it for more of an advantage.

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

It has expired. Technically. It was 3 turns ago that you sent us the cancellation demand. Three turns was the NAP's cancellation time. And what? You expect us to honor you when you, AND Abysia, the two nearly largest nations in the WORLD, choose to start a war against us? We only assessed our situation and came to the conclusion that our poison resistant armies are better served fighting against you and your poison filled filth rather than the burning insanity of the Abysians.

If you expected honor in a war which has no honor in the first place, you must be insane. Honor? Hah! All you want is to sate your insane lust for power, no matter the cost. And you should know this by now. The dead honor no one.

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

Apparently monkeys can't count past two, your comic show of claiming to be withdrawing gives lie to your lunacy that this is not a sneak attack made possible by my honoring our agreement. Rest assured however, your counting skills will not again be challenged for the only warning you'll receive in the future will be the crash of an axe to the back of your skull. Much like you can have no faith unless there is uncertainty, you can have no honor until it is not pragmatic so justify not your sneak attack with sniveling about being outmatched by your betters.

In the end it matters not for monkey skin flays as well as any other and you have accomplished naught with your treachery outside annoyance.

Re: MysteryMammal - EA game - recruiting
 

Where is the honor in bringing an ally, an ally which is practically as large as you, to a fight against a much smaller opponent, whom you know that you could've beaten on your own, even if at a slightly slower pace? You make us laugh. Tell us some more of your jokes.

Indeed, what do YOU know of honor? Nothing. You only deserve our scorn. The fact that you expect a "honorable" war, which in fact would in truth be a war which would suit YOUR needs the most, is laughable. In truth, there is no honor in your wars. There shall never be any honor in them. You only pick on the sickly and the weak, because you are scared that anyone even close to your level might actually hurt you. YOU have the luxury of "honoring your agreements", because YOU know that no one you are to wage war with cannot even hurt YOU once you are prepared for your war. To think that we would be that idiotic is lunacy. To honor you would be the same as stabbing one's own heart.

And you are still wrong. The attack itself happened on turn three of the cancellation, even though the orders may have been given on turn two of the same. The Abysians gave us the same cancellation a turn later you did, and this happened through a different medium.

Host delay?
 

Hey, Parcelt asked for an extension ahead of time and it's 4-5 hours til host and his 2h isn't in, so I'm thinking we ought to set the timer back. Anyone have any more info regarding that?

Re: Host delay?
 

Thanks for the reminder. I just delayed it by 15 hours.

Re: Host delay?
 

Heh, your ally removed the last vestiges of claims you had of our dishonorability by attacking us in similar fashion as we attacked you! Indeed, it has voided all your claims of anything dishonorable taking place, and all that is left is the fact that our armies are raiding within your lands, and they have absolutely nothing to lose. While we shall undoubtably die, and the Sauromatians will most undoubtably dishonor our dead, as is customary for their foul nation, at least we die knowing that we did indeed drive deep into the lands of the foul, traitorous Sauromatians, whom poison the very ground they walk upon!

Come, good Abysians, take over everything you can see! A bounty of provinces awaits you!

Re: Host delay?
 

Yes, when you're known to break NAPs others don't tend to honor them with you, a hard lesson about consequences I fear you won't have much time to consider. Rest assured, I had no doubt from the moment you attacked that you lacked any interest in doing other than scorching as much earth as possible. Lacking the character and ability to do otherwise, monkeys fling poo....you have to expect distasteful behavior when dealing with your sort.

Re: Host delay?
 

The grand people of Abysia see no need to honor pacts with pact breakers. We held our end of the NAP, gave notification, and then saw it broken against our neighbor.

Jazzepi

Re: Host delay?
 

Hmm, so you are saying that it is alright to stoop to the level of those whom you might consider dishonorable? Hahahahaha. More jokes! You sure know how to keep us entertained. No, it in fact only reinforced our point on that attacking on the third month of the NAP cancellation, even if orders were given on the second month, was exactly what should be done, as that is what your ally did as well! And you still seem to think that we might've actually had a chance against your and Abysia's combined power... Are you completely out of your mind? Have you been using some of those "natural drugs" of yours again?

And let's not kid ourselves. Even the most retarded markata child could see that you fully expected us to defend against the armies of Abysia which piled up on our borders while YOU would get all the good parts of our lands with practically no resistance. The fact that, even while starting to cancel the NAP and claiming that your armies would roll into our lands in three months, you failed to bring any proper forces to our borders, ever. Too bad your plan backfired as we managed to get the momentum instead of you, and now Abysia is reaping the benefits while you are reaping the damage. Indeed, your tactics are without a shred of honor and are readable as though a book, yet you claim to be "honorable"... Of course you consider us dishonorable because we acted in a way that displeases you, but was obviously the ONLY reasonable action we could take. Which part of that is so hard to understand? We know we can't survive in a war against you AND Abysia. You know that. Abysia knows that. And you still think we care about your views on honor, when you have none?

Please, stop this nonsense. Haven't you heard that a cornered animal is very likely to bite? And it is true for even most sentient creatures? And why do you call us "monkeys"? You are actually related to them, while we are of completely different pedigree. Or does the fact that we use them in battle confuse you? Because, we can assure you, we are not apes. You are.

Re: Host delay?
 

Then you are even more stupid than we thought. If you expected us to hold true to anything which concerns either of you when you, two much larger nations than us, are breathing down our collective necks... "Pact broker" is such an idiotic term, especially when it is YOU two who wanted war.

Yes. You wanted war. You got one. Just not on your most optimal terms. Deal with it. If you ever thought that we would just go down quietly, you were stupid, naive and probably mentally retarded.

Re: Host delay?
 

I got worked. Hard. GG

Re: Host delay?
 

I don't mind light in character joshing between nations, but you are just being offensive. This is your only warning; stop it.

Jazzepi

Re: Host delay?
 

As an OOC reply to that... Yeah, I'm being offensive. Towards the Abysians and the Sauromatians. Whom, in the view of the Lankans, spout a lot about honor while going after weaker folks, which isn't very honorable. And then they go ganging up on weaker folks, TOO, because they're cowardly. If the other side doesn't have a fighting chance, it's kinda stoopid to start talking about honor or the lack of it when talking about the other side, when they're doing things that are obviously the best courses of action for them to take before actually dying.

Seriously, if you expect people to actually honor deals, don't go, "I'm breaking this nap rofl, and oh yeah, I'm bringing a friend too just so you really can't do anything." That basically gave me the justification to do whatever I want, because I know I'm gonna die fast anyway, so I don't really have to care about anything anymore, except causing maximum damage to one of you before I really go. Remember the whole thing about the cornered animal being the most likely to bite back? And that is works for humans, too? Well, that's what happened. ;p

Re: Host delay?
 

The thing you have to realize is that by behaving utterly loathsome both in and out of the game all you accomplish is making sure people don’t want to make pacts with you in the future, or indeed even play with you - and perhaps if you’re lucky annoy some people who are playing a game with you for no reason other than mutual enjoyment. Take this advice in the spirit with which it is intended, regardless of how you justify it poor sportsmanship and being a sore looser hurt yourself more than the people you’re trying to annoy. If you behave like somebody you’d want to play with you’ll have a much more satisfying game, and indeed life. Fight the good fight, congratulate your conqueror, and see if there is anything you can learn from your defeat.

By definition its strategy to avoid a fair fight. By definition it's poor sportsmanship to cause grief after you've lost. You decide the player you're going to be.

That’s just my opinion, so don’t bother responding with vitriol as that’s all I’ve got to say about it.

Re: Host delay?
 

Hmm? You still don't seem to get that I'm playing the part of a nation that was betrayed by two nations whom it considered friendly. You showed no indication of wanting war with me, in fact you went as far to actually sign a non-aggression pact, and then, suddenly, you figured it was time to go to war and then you even brought Abysia into it. Thus you managed to make an already unfair situation extremely unfair. You left me with no other choice but to attack you the way I did, and you know that's the truth. At least you could've had the common decency to fight me on a one on one basis, when I would've done what I originally intended (bring my troops to the border, wait one more turn and attack) and I would've still lost. You're like a bully first going, "YOU'RE SO DEAD..." and when the one being bullied does something that hurts the said bully, he goes, "HEY UNFAIR, YOU ACTUALLY FOUGHT BACK." ;p

This poor sportsmanship BS is just as much BS as it was before when I got overrun by Helheim as Marverni, and I didn't even break anything there. Sure, I could instead just go "buhuhu I'm going to lose http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif(( I quit" every time things start looking grim to me, but I'm the kind of player who instead chooses to actually fight back as long as I can with the limited toolset I am given. This IS a wargame, you know, not a "I quit the moment I realize I've lost" game nor a "I care for the welfare of people who want to kill me" game. And you know... I think getting an ALLY out into the war is far worse sportsmanship than me attacking you one turn "early". And you got Jazzepi to show the same lack of "sportsmanship" by getting him attack me a turn early, too, instead of showing that you are "better" than me and waiting for the third turn - a turn you could've waited for easily because you guys are stronger than me ALONE already. So, your complaint loses its ground.

You are quite an unpredictable player (Burden of Time as Mictlan? Christ, no one saw that one coming, and let's not forget Astral Corruption! Both are direct violations of the spirit and the letter of non-aggression pacts, cuz they screw up people badly), but you're WRONG to think that others aren't capable of using the very same element. I caught you offguard. You should be complimenting me for the fact that I actually managed to do such a cunning feint instead of going "OMG UNFAIR" - then I might actually feel compelled to compliment you for your aggressive style of play, which, for all intents and purposes, is pretty effective, while not a way of playing the game that I enjoy. I do enough of this powergaming in Anarchy Online, thank you.

All is fair in love and war, they say. But apparently not in Dominions 3 gaming, because fighting back is horriblay. To give a counterargument on one of your other points, it's you whom people should be wary of making NAPs with (I know I will be after this). Why make a NAP with a person who'll just cancel it anyway when he thinks he's ready to kill you, and brings others to do the dirty work for him? My track record so far, however, shows that I only go against a NAP that's being CANCELLED ANYWAY when I'm under pressure from much stronger nations, and it's the only way I can do anything instead of just going instadead.

I really don't think you have any place to complain here. You made your intentions clear. You got an ally with you too. I made my conclusions on them, and I did what I deemed as necessary. Abysia broke the NAP as well, and I'm fine with that. I may have broken the 3 turn rule, but you went against the spirit (and letter) of non-aggression pacts. You don't seem to take the idea of non-aggression pacts as seriously as I do - which is good to know.

/argument hat

Don't worry, I can continue this argument for just as long as you want. It's pointless, it's stupid, yes, neither of us are really standing on any ground to accuse the other of anything as we're both doing what we're pretty much expected to be doing. I'm clinging to whatever shreds of continued life in-game I can find while you are bringing the smackdown on me... All should be good. The IC chatter was just that - IC chatter. What I've said is stupid, pointless stuff from a nation of warlike demon-things that kinda look like apes which are dying under the combined might of two of the strongest nations ingame, with insults and general nastiness being thrown from both sides.

EDIT:

For those who might read this argument and wonder about it, and possibly about my reasoning for what I did, I took a few of screenshots from the graphs to make my side of this silly argument a bit clearer and probably understandable.

1) Provinces

As you can see, I have a LOT less provinces than either of them do. Even if I somehow doubled up, I'd still have less than either one of them.

2) Armysize

While this does not generally look as bad as the Province count, it actually is. As you can see, from one fight with Sauro's troops my army size dropped considerably. It's because a large majority of my army consists of ghouls/ape ghouls and assorted undead chaff with some ape archers and sacreds - I can't even dream of trying to replace all the troops I lose when I end up in a fight.

3) Income

Partly due to my horrible position (lots of wastes), partly due to the fact that they are insanely huge compared to me, their incomes, even alone, would be waaay above twice than that of mine. They could field much larger armies than I could if they wanted to as a result, and Abysia, in fact, does. He was my only hope for fighting off Sauromatia who had his army all over the place, but well, he seemed to have other ideas. His choice.

4) Gem Income

While my gem income is only slightly worse than Abysia's (which means that our gem income is totally abysmal, I've only found 2 provinces with sites that give gems outside my capital with my many searches), it is way lower than that of Sauromatia's.

Re: Host delay?
 

FWIW I think that everyone in this case acted fairly appropriately. Aby/Sauro beating up on a small nation is smart (though I wouldn't say honorable) and Lanka biting, clawing, and scrapping with everything it has when he realizes it's a hopeless situation. Doing damage once you've lost (in game, obviously) is perfectly acceptable. I spent a good 5 turns hunting down Pan's last raiding force before finally cornering it, even though his cap had fallen and didn't think it was anything resembling poor sportsmanship for him to do what he did. If the fight is evenly balanced then sure, taking your loss gracefully once it's clear the other player has gained the upper hand is all well and good, but expecting someone that's outmatched from turn 1 of the conflict to go gently isn't in the same category.

If you're going to talk about Sensori's reputation in future games what I just learned from this is that I'll probably want to go pick on someone else who will roll over and die instead of killing Sensori's nation if I have a choice between two targets. That's not a bad rep to have, even in light of the NAP fudging.

Some of the commentary on the boards is getting a bit heated though. Baalz actually threw the first hunk of ice in what had been an acceptable snowball fight over honor and NAPs by referring to Sensori, not Lanka. Sensori's replies since then have been a bit overly vitriolic though, even if they were meant to be IC.

Basically I don't think anyone did anything they shouldn't have in the game, so the whole pissing contest on the boards is getting a little silly. The initial round of "you broke your NAP, prepare to die" and "haha we tricked you, Sun Tzu thinks we're awesome" was fine and dandy, but most of the posts since then have been fairly pointless (just each side calling the other side names), many being pointlessly offensive.

That's my take on it. Both sides have been heard out, neither one is "right" on the boards, or "wrong" in the game we all know the facts, now lets move on, shall we?

Re: Host delay?
 

Sounds like a good idea to me. I just like arguing for the sake of arguing, especially when a good argument over nothing gets rolling!

Truce, Baalz and Jazzepi?

Re: Host delay?
 

I don't mind scorched earth tactics, that's Baalz's deal. I just felt the tone of Sensori's posts went over the line.

Jazzepi

Re: Host delay?
 

They did, but I had the Lankans call the in-game, in character Abysians retards, not you. ;p It was in response to the whole thing which I considered that the Lankas would find rather insulting that you chose to attack them instead of Sauromatia, especially after asking for your help against them, only to find out that you were indeed allied with them in the destroying of Lanka - especially since I really do consider that the worst possible move you could have made when Sauromatia's armies are faar faar awayyy.

Re: Host delay?
 

Plus, Sensori is confirmed to be insane. Never forget that.

Re: Host delay?
 

Hey, I resent that! No German guy is gonna come around and call ME insane! YOU are insane! ;p

Re: Host delay?
 

Baalz, will you finally kill off my pretender so I can put this game on AI!

A Bane with a few toys should be able to take care of him.

Re: Host delay?
 

I apologize profusely for my egregious job in closing the deal, my initial force were obviously unprepared for the Risen Oracle and Red Dragon that unexpectedly popped out of the respective Argatha and Yomi capitals on the same turn and the more appropriate hit squads I then sent to follow up were promptly cut off by an irate Lanka (loudly complaining that the armies recently scattered were nowhere to be seen so I must not have intended to really attack him). Rest assured, your war front is very important to us and it will be handled in the order in which it was received.

Re: Host delay?
 

Hey, I'm gonna go to a place for the weekend that doesn't have the internets from the looks of it. Could it be possible for yous to wait for my turn then, unless Abysia and Sauro somehow manage to destroy me in one turn?

And Baalz, I've been thinking that you made a strategic error in thinking that you can fight in multiple fronts at once. Nice to hear that it was actually true. ;p Seems like that you really needed Abysia to save you in this war, since from the looks of things, had he been on "my" side, you'd be toast. And what I've seen so far... The army you were going to use was quite small - not exactly something you would've won with. Hell, I'm skipping your army now to just go into your lands. ;p

So in the end, Jazzepi traded a huge amount of good provinces for a bunch of wastelands. Doesn't sound like a sweet deal to me. Unless, of course, he has plans to attack you after this... Would make sense. He HAS to have some kind of plan, because my lands are so bad that they won't pay off too much.

Re: Host delay?
 

Oh, it wasn't so much a strategic error in me being overextended - I had both Yomi and Argatha essentially conquered and no indication that wouldn't be wrapped up before our NAP expired. The setback when the double SCs unexpectedly popped out like jack-in-the-boxes was followed by you jumping the gun and attacking before our NAP had expired and whatsmore immediate abandoning any semblance of acting in your own self interest to simply ignore everything and throw every troop you had into pushing as far and fast as possible into my lands. I'll admit it did catch me off guard that you abandoned any pretense of defending your lands as the Abyssians massed on your other border. Its a bit odd that your conclusion is I need the Abyssians to save me, I opened a third war front fully expecting to be facing roughly half your army, falsely believing you'd have some interest in fighting off Abyssia. As it is the steam runs out in your blitz with no lasting consequence (other than briefly keeping me from putting Argatha and Yomi out of their misery), while Abyssia rolls in from the West and my regrouped forces begin to move back up to offense.

So yes, it did not go as smoothly as I hoped but I don't think I made any big mistakes given the information I had at the time.

Re: Host delay?
 

There's rarely any truly lasting consequences from having someone who's going to die stinging you - other than the fact that it slows you down momentarily which, in and out of itself, is something of that will have an ever so slight effect that will affect you forever. You know, in the form of a maybe slightly smaller troop number/research/etc in turn X after war (which is kind of a given), which is the best I can hope for in the first place.

And yes, I'm quite certain that you did need Abysia to help you out - as in, instead of him being in opposition of you, really. Although. Had you been alone and Abysia had stayed out, the effects of my raids would've been... I'd say, a lot worse for you (basically because I'm forced to rush and exert myself even more than I had originally intended), as Abysia wouldn't be lowering my income, forcing me to bring my mages and such closer to the capital instead of letting them sit where they were, running after my raid groups and so forth. Your poison arrows are little more than regular arrows for my armies as most of them are undead, and by extension, poison resistant. Only really scary thing you have are those durn sacred riders. Just against you, I would've expected a rather prolonged war which I would've lost as I couldn't have kept up in sheer numbers (my (gem) income is abysmal) I think, but still, a long war.

What I'm trying to say is that I was rather optimistic of my ability to fight the war until Abysia came in, too. At that point I knew I can't even survive for long. Throwing half of my armies on one of you and the other half on the other would've been suicide - your army sizes were practically identical to mine, and together they were TWICE the amount I had. I knew I had to fight one almost exclusively while giving the other practically free passage through my lands, or I wouldn't be able to do ANYTHING.

--

I'm gonna go away on Friday and come back on Sunday, so could the turn be postponed if I haven't sent my turn? Puhleeze! This is an important time for my nation, as I try to cause some havoc on mah enemies before actually dying.

Re: Host delay?
 

Just tell me when to start the delay and when to end it.

Re: Host delay?
 

Uh, well, I go away on Friday, I'll be gone at least from like... 16:00 EET (GMT+2), and I'll probably come back at around 16:00 EET (GMT+2), which would be 14:00 GMT on both days.

Re: Host delay?
 

What day are you coming back?

Re: Host delay?
 

Sunday... How did I forget that word from that post?

Re: Host delay?
 

Not sure why Yomi would continue to attack me while Sauromatia is everywhere. Oh well, I have killed Yomi's dragon, again. So Now Sauromatia has 1 less SC to worry about.

Re: Host delay?
 

Doh! I thought we had a delay. Oh well, one stale is a small price to pay for having that dragon gone (I think he was jumping blind trying to avoid my hit squad and didn't really mean to attack you Rytek).

Re: Host delay?
 

I was under that impression as well. I just barely got my turn in like 5 minutes before the deadline.

Sensori is going to be pissed. I think every game he asked for a delay in, he isn't getting it.

Jazzepi

Re: Host delay?
 

I think he got his turn in, Lanka attacked me this turn...

Re: Host delay?
 

I don't know what, if anything, went wrong. I looked last night and he'd already taken his turn. There was no point in delaying until AFTER the next tick. Now that the turn has ticked, I'll delay it.

Re: Host delay?
 

I think it's pretty clear that myself and Baalz, unrelated to in game things, expected the turn to be delayed as requested and that's why he staled, and I barely made the deadline. If I hadn't woken up super early, I would have missed it easily.

Jazzepi

Re: Host delay?
 

The turn was delayed as requested. Unfortunately I didn't anticipate that others would skip(delay) their turns in anticipation of the delay. I'm sorry about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I will try to be more informative of my admin actions in the future.

OTOH, if anyone wants to take over the admin duties, I'd be happy to hand them off. I'm going to be eliminated soon.

Re: Host delay?
 

Oh, no worries. I'm certainly not complaining, but I'll take over admining if you're on the way out.

Re: Host delay?
 

Oh yeah, I managed to get my turn in because, as usual, things got postponed by an hour or two. 16:00 was just a rough estimate. And then I got back home like 4 hours after I thought I'd be here.

But anyway, thanks for waiting, bummer that others got staled especially since they are the ones I'm fighting, kinda sorta. I was wondering why he (Sauro) stayed put like that, it made no sense - makes more sense now (I did my new turn before checking the forums, just in case if I was running low on time or something).

Re: Host delay?
 

Good job killing Yomi. Now, come get Risen Oracle.

Re: Host delay?
 

Worry not my friend, Yomi has fallen and Lanka hunkers in their capital waiting for the end. I will be calling on you shortly.

Re: Host delay?
 

The hosting is waiting on Yomi, who is dead, what's up with that?

Re: Host delay?
 

I think there's a one turn lag; next turn the llamaserver will no longer show Yomi.

Re: Host delay?
 

Hmmm, I've got the admin password but I'm hesitant to force the hosting in case its the summary page that's wonky and the hosting is actually waiting on somebody else. Should be hosting in a few hours anyway and hopefully Yomi will no longer be on the list.