Re: A call for aid!
 

How is it this time Jazzepi?

Re: A call for aid!
 

By the way, it is very important that everyone deletes their 2h files before playing the new version of the turn. I've sent an e-mail to that effect.

Re: A call for aid!
 

This turn is perfect. I'm not sure what happened with the last one that I got. Everything was spent/forged correctly, and I no longer have any Souless, Longdead Velite, or other Ermor shock troop commanders.

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

Marvellous. We are back on course!

Incidentally I think I have realised what went wrong, and we probably rolled back for no reason as it turns out. I suspect you had a 2h file for the alternate universe Turn 42 in the directory before. When you have a 2h for the same turn number and the same game it throws no errors, but shows you absolute craziness.

I'm not saying that's your fault by the way, I'm surprised more of us didn't end up with the same issue, it was just a coincidence of timing I guess that you ended up with it (specifically you probably got around to playing the erroneous turn before the rest of us). Anyway, it's one to remember for next time.

Re: A call for aid!
 

You know, I *never* delete the 2H file in these PBEM games. It always just over writes it. I did it this time because you explicitly said to.

Now that I think about it, there's a slim chance that last turn I sent in a turn from the old version, but I'm not sure that's the case. I can't remember.

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

So what I mean I think happened is:

- LlamaServer sends out erroneous turn 42 (labelled turn 43)
- Jazzepi starts playing it and saves and exits dominions
- LlamaBeast sends out corrected turn 42 (since the first one was completely nuts)
- Jazzepi opens it, and because the 2h file generated when he started playing the erroneous turn 42 is still there it shows crazy stuff

Is that possible? It sounds like quite a likely series of events to me. Like I say, it's even surprising that it didn't affect more of us. The reason it didn't is because we were all too slow off the mark to do the second point above.

I don't think you ever actually sent in an erroneous 2h file, because thinking carefully back there's been no opportunity to. We've never actually hosted turn 42 and turn 41 was fine.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Actually, I think that's exactly what happened. I definitely got the turn 43, and opened it up. I remember looking at it with the big "stale" message the top. Then I got the turn 42, and opened it up with no "stale" message and couldn't figure out why everything was so wrong D:

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

Yes, I do believe there have been some changes to the armies that are now poised to invade my borders compared to the previous erroneous alternate universe. Some troop shuffling and battlefield items perhaps?

Nevertheless, they shall ALL still be REPELLED by my INVINCIBLE, INVINCIBLE, NIGH INVINCIBLE forces!

As for Mictlan, you will not have it easy either. How long would it take to reprophetise a new underling after the last one has had its mind violated and turned to mush anyway?


Edit: some capitalisation for emphasis
Edit2: 100th post!

Re: A call for aid!
 

sigh...

it seems I haven't given enough leeway and my turn missed the deadline http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Is there any chance of the turn rehosting with my turn sent in? I'll understand if not, theres been enough technical issues already without my procrastination added into the mix.

Re: A call for aid!
 

I would say no for the following reasons.

When I "staled", it wasn't because of missing a deadline, it was because of the weirdness caused by the turn 43 being passed out early, before turn 42.

Also, when I staled I wasn't actively fighting anybody, ergo nobody else's strategies, armies, spells were revealed to me. Nor did I change the course of action I was taking earlier regarding alliances/NAPs.

This turn I just had two important battles where I revealed the content of both invading armies and I feel like backing up now would give an unfair advantage to my opponent.

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

To clarify, I believed I sent my turn in before the deadline, but it reached the server after the turn was processed. Therefore there was no 'prescience' on my part for the turn that was sent, and that is the turn I would play.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Erk. I can do this, using all the turns people sent in before the deadline (hence no prescience), but I don't particularly like the precedent it sets, this kind of thing could easily get a bit out of control. Do other people have thoughts? If it was a particularly crucial turn for shard I suppose it might be a fair thing to rerun the turn (using, of course, only 2hs which were sent before hosting).

Re: A call for aid!
 

It was quite a crucial turn, involving a lot of panicky last minute decisions and changes. However, as I estimate TC to only be a 2nd or 3rd tier power with little chance of overall victory in this game I shall leave it up to you guys to decide. At any rate I shall be looking to find a permanent sub for at least one of the 3 games i am involved in as its obvious I have overextended myself. This isnt the first time i've cut a turn close and I suppose I had it coming.

Re: A call for aid!
 

I really have to object to this. If you don't make the deadline, you don't make the deadline. I'm sorry that shard sent his turn in but it didn't make it there on time. That's what happens when you try to cut it too close to the wire.

I don't think you can equate missing the deadline, which is something you're responsible for taking care of, with having your turn mangled by the server.

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

Interesting, 2 eagle warriors just randomly became commanders with (thematic) magic, and a slave warrior became a plain troop commander.

Re: A call for aid!
 

This is what happened to me when my turn was messing up. I would suggest deleting the files for sloth, and redownloading your turn.

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

Same thing even when downloaded into a fresh folder.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Jazzepi - sorry you didn't like the decision. I agree it's a little questionable - still, at times when turns are critical, I think if possible the outcome should not be determined by players running out of time. While it would have been better if shard had let me know in advance, that was the decision I made this time. The main reason I wouldn't make it more often is that it would be too much work. Having said that I think I will refrain from doing the same thing in future because it causes confusion and feels a little unfair. The responsibility's entirely mine though, not shard's.

Anyway, as I say, sorry if you didn't like it. It wouldn't make a lot of sense to go back and rehost again without shard's turn.

QM: a couple of games seem to have had bugs along these lines occasionally, and I'm stumped as to what could be causing them. There was nothing weird about the rehosting, I used the same 2h files as the first time.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Actually, the same thing occurred in the host both with and without shard's turn. This isn't the first game I've recently seen this in either, and I'm also stumped as far as any common factors.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Let me explain something. There were multiple mages (we're talking something like a dozen or so) patrolling a certain territory for multiple turns. When I attacked in the first instance of the host, those mages were still patrolling (as they were for several turns before my attack, verified by scouts that were constantly caught by the patrollers). Now, in the second instance, when the overwhelming force I brought to bear on that province was made clear, none of those mages were patrolling. However, the province where I attacked with a weaker army was heavily reinforced.

Shard did not make the deadline. You're punishing *me* for a mistake *he* made by giving him a chance to change his orders between battles after being given perfect information about my attacking armies.

I can't prove that those mages would still have been patrolling anymore than Shard can prove that they would have moved back, but it is awfully convenient that his forces withdrew from the stronger pairs of armies, and stayed in place against the weaker of the pairs.

I'm really questioning if I should even bother staying in these games if you're going to let people rehost after two large battles have occurred because of a mistake they made completely under their own control. You have TWO DAYS to take your turn. I'm playing Ermor, probably the largest and most micro intensive empire in the game ATM. I don't miss my turns, and when I do, believe me I've staled 4-5 times as R'yleh in BAG, I take responsibility for it.

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

Jazzepi, I want to make one thing clear straight away: I can see the time Shard's e-mail was sent, and it was indeed before hosting. Furthermore it arrived within a few seconds of hosting. There's no way he could have used information from the hosting. That's quite an important point - if there was any way he could have seen the new turn before sending his e-mail, I obviously would not have rehosted, because that would have been stupid.

So, you're not being punished for him making a mistake. As far as you're concerned the situation is as it would be if he had taken his turn well in advance.

I'm very sorry that this happened in the way it did, because I can see that it must be very annoying for you. But please remember - the injustice is only the same as happens every time I give someone an extension without them asking, which happens reasonably often. No more.

Re: A call for aid!
 

That's not at all what I thought was going on. Apologies for protesting so much. Carry on!

Jazzepi

Re: A call for aid!
 

Oh phew, that's a relief.

Okay all, we are back to normal service.

Re: A call for aid!
 

That went well, all things considered.

If anyone else wants R'lyeh territory, other than those to whom I've been sending Goblets, confer with me first - I don't doubt that he'll invite people to take his territory once it's clear he can't win, and I don't intend to stop going just because someone else has lain claim to some of his lands.

Re: A call for aid!
 

In view of his last post, it seems the good doctor is agreeing with me. Utgard is now churning out Tartarians, equiped with extremely powerful, forge-cheapened artifacts, and while so far he's mainly killed some (quite a lot of) chaff, his potential for growth is huge.

Anyone intrested in defeating this power (or even slowing it down while you further your own plans) is free to contact me. I'm still in perfectly good fighting shape, and anything you can do to hurt Utgard (Ritual spells of any kind - I can provide the coördinates where they will do the most good; donations to the poor, bereaved nation of R'lyeh will obviously be put to their best use in dealing with this threat, or setting up a fund to dispel FoTA - though I'm afraid that will require a lot of pearls )will prolong this conflict, and give you more time to rise to world domination.

In the meantime, The Hunger Without Thought shall continue to feed, and the nation of R'lyeh wishes you all pleasant dreams. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: A call for aid!
 

I agree with nothing of the sort!

R'lyeh has not yet grown so powerful that he can stand against a military axis containing 3 players. While I'm pleased with my tarts, those are only a few thugs - R'lyeh has communions of star spawn, which, if left alone, can be rendered virtually immune to the overland attack spells which he wishes you to fling at my armies.

This is not to be tolerated - we must end R'lyeh quickly and decisively.

Re: A call for aid!
 

I'd like to request a 24h extension if possible. I just realised we're having an after-work drink tomorrow, so I won't be able to submit my turn in time.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Done!

Re: A call for aid!
 

Oh, argh! He is *so lucky*! He took out my blood-master, preventing her from erasing the fatigue on my communion!

Grrr! Snarl! 19 slaves, down the drain.

Well, I'll send two of them next time.

Re: A call for aid!
 

Amhazair apparently is having computer problems, so I've postponed hosting to give him time to fix it.

Re: A call for aid!
 

This sounds ominious. Does this mean our two big armies collided, and you won the battle? Ayayay. Can't wait to look at my turn. If all goes according to plan that will be tomorrow, I should have my computer back in working order by then. My apologies to everyone for the delay.

Re: A call for aid!
 

I'll be leaving for a trip and I'm not sure when I can get email access so I'd like to request for a 24hr extension if possible.

Thanks in advance!

Re: A call for aid!
 

Actually, I'd like a 24h extension as well. I'm extremely busy with work.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

I've just realised that Folket still hasn't taken over from qm as Mictlan, so I will postpone hosting by a day (or more, if Folket wants time to look at the position) rather than let Mictlan stale again. I'm about to invade, so it's hardly fair to let him stale.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Thanks to my forgetfulness Mictlan ended up staling again last turn (oops), but now Folket has given me his e-mail address and I've set Mictlan up to point to it and resent the current turn. So we are all good. I've added an extra 24 hours to the clock again to give Folket a little time to look at the position.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Could we move the hosting interval up to 72 hrs/QH? My turns are getting exceedingly complicated and I've also got a lot to do at work.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

I'm a little hesitant to move to 72 hour hosting because I've found before that that's longer than my enthusiasm attention span, and I guess that may be the same for others as well. However, if you're really struggling Dr P, certainly I'll change it.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

I can manage for at least a bit longer.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

I am beset on all sides by foes. If anyone wishes to stop R'lyeh while they still can, send aid - even if I can win against him alone, I'll be too severely crippled by all this to much of a threat.

I'm in need of nature gems for GoR - if you have any, I will trade you items for nature gems at cost (that is to say, if it costs me 4 gems-with-hammer to make an item, I will trade it to you for 4 nature gems.)

I'd also like money. I have a big crate of Sea King's goblets that I made for Man and Pythium, if anyone wants those.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Utgard now has the Maelstrom up, giving 15 water gems, along with 5 pearls and a few other miscellaneous gems. With the forge, each clam costs only 5 water gems. So Utgard will be forging at least 3 clams, probably 5 or so, every turn. Although water gems are useful for other things e.g. frost brands and boots of quickness, they only cost 1 and 3 gems respectively!

If Utgard is allowed to keep these spells up we will all be doomed pretty soon, regardless of how well we play.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

This is a game where it's a pity graphs are off.

I just lost my actual army (due to the short turn schedule http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif - I didn't notice they were marching without gems).

Anyway - either I can slow down R'lyeh enough to give me some time to maybe beat Man, or I'll be eaten alive.

If I can slow down R'lyeh enough to beat Man before R'lyeh eats me, and if I beat Man, *then* maybe I can beat R'lyeh on land.

Then maybe someone other than R'lyeh has a chance. R'lyeh doesn't need any world-stomping enchantments up - he's R'lyeh. Do any of you really think you could stop him if he has my (and Man's, obviously, once I'm eaten) land territories? Enchantments are nice, but he'd have literally half the map.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Aaargh! Now it's my turn to loose all my slaves in a victorious battle. 40 mages down the drain...

Note to self: Do NOT make comunions too big. Even if each cast of a master only gives each slave 2 fatigue points, enough masters will kill em all. One more lesson learned the hard way...

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Well Man is going to do everything in his power not to get beaten. So far things are getting interesting right about now.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

That was decisive.

I lost 4 Tarts this turn, effectively 5, and I'm down to 8 provinces. My light, it appears, has gone out of the world.

While I hurt R'lyeh terribly (after a fashion - he doesn't care about his troops, only the star spawn matter), I failed even to bruise Shmonk.

Nonetheless, I think he will regret the decision to switch sides, and soon.

I'll be giving away my remaining posessions over the next few turns.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Well, you sure proved a tough nut to crack, and I got a bit lucky on a few occasions. (Taking out your reinvigorator in our first big battle, meaning that you couldn't capitalise on your victory; and I still don't know how I managed to kill that Titan with the stone sword)

The decisive element though, was the fact you had the forge up. While I'm sure you benefited from it (and damn, you had some nastily equiped titans) it also meant everyone was more afraid from you than from me, and in the end noone intervened in your favor.

This was also the war where I learned a lot about large communions. Before now I had only used small/medium communions, nothing really nasty. Now I had a 60-man(fish?thing?) communion running around casting some big spells. Watching you use your communion sure taught me some tricks too. Thank you for the education. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif


And The Hunger Without Thought has eaten.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

It's true that I underestimated the diplomatic hit that the Forge gave me. Telling Ermor to back off of your corpse may also have been a bad move diplomatically http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif, although I'm not sure why it would've pissed off Pythium and Man.

I was a bit surprised when people offered to help me fight you - I'd expected to have to go toe-to-toe, but when Shmonk announced that he was going to attack me *instead*, that came as a major surprise.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

I actually think that in a game this size Forge is probably /the/ most powerful overworld enchantment. The gem savings off of it amount to far more than you'd expect to get from the astral spell, whatever it's called, with only 4-5 other opponents.

Jazzepi

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

You basically claimed half the map by saying that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif You didn't just announce that to Ermor. You said "anyone taking Ryleh's territories..." and basically threatened the entire map if they didn't let you have all of R'yleh's stuff.

Jazzepi

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Well, what I actually said was:
Since I'd been sending Pythium and Man goblets, that was just you http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. I suppose that T'ien Ch'i or Mictlan might've conceivably been threatened, but....

Anyway, yeah, Forge is the best enchantment on this map. Ordinarily I can make peace by forging stuff for other people, but no takers this game.

Re: Sloth - LA game with KO and JK - recruiting
 

Having said all that, Utgard has still got 5 or 6 Tartarians, (some of them might be new/unequiped, but I don't think they still will be by the time I face them) a horde of mages, and some chaff waiting for me behind high walls. I'm sure he'll want to deal out one more hard blow before going down.