Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Their sacred soul has its physical manifestation in the tail. Everyone knows that.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

And then there is the endless teasing :)

I like the mod alot by the way.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I whipped up the Third Generation Slann the other day. They're pretty powerful, but expensive.

They also have a lot of bling. Like Mr T.

I'm working on the 5 Second Generation ones. Unique summons.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1236368768

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

As is traditional (see the chameleon pipe smoking gentry), I have made my latest slann graphic into an aristocrat. This one is an industrialist it seems, keen on low cost socially responsible fuel solutions.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com//atta...1&d=1236810864

Burn the poor!

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Great work Sombre. I´m really keen on this mod.

You should make that last one a national hero.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I wonder what his attack animation would look like.

Also I'm really looking forward to seeing what the third generation slann can do :).

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I've added an Alpha channel so that it's easier to make out the Slann...

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Your alpha channel seems to have messed up some bits of the graphic and I don't think he's hard to make out anyway with normal monitor brightness.

Regardless the graphic was knocked up quickly for fun and no he's not going to be a hero.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Social Darwinism at its best.

You did great sprites for the mod.

Jazzepi

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

By the way sombre, did you ever change the ogre and lizard startsites to not conflict? I'm pretty sure I have the latest versions and they still use the same site numbers as each other. Just haven't bothered changing it on my system since I can always just play with the warhammerama mod :P Of course that's getting a bit out of date now.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

That will be fixed in the next version, which will be released once I have completed the 5 unique 2nd gens and modified the sacred spawnings, as well as added a spell or two (Sotek needs some series snake summoning).

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Are there still ultimate plans for dinosaurs?

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Yes. Carnosaur and the other one,.. Stegadon I think, will both be in eventually. Stegadons with a fort on their back which fires projectiles and Carnosaurs with thuggable Oldbloods riding them.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I have been playing a bit, and I strongly believe the temple guard should be cap-only. As evidence I list it against some other cap-only MA sacreds:

*Heart Companion (Arco)
25G 30R
11HP 17Prot 6(4)D
14Da 11A 5L
14Mor 10MR 9Enc 1/7Mov

*Lictor (Ermor)
25G 24R
12HP 13Prot 9D
20Da 12Att 3L
15Mor 11MR 7Enc 1/8Mov

*Daoine Sidhe (Eriu)
35G 12R
13HP 10Prot 11(4)D
15Da 12Att 4L (+Jav)
12Mor 14MR 5Enc 2/11Mov
Glamour, 50DV

Temple Guard (Itza)
24G 12R
16HP 15Prot 8(4)Def
21Dam 10Att 4L (+Magic, +Bite!!)
18Mor 11MR 4Enc 1/9Mov

*=cap-only

The temple guard are the cheapest (in resources AND gold), have the most health, and the second best protection. They also retain respectable defense and MR. They have the highest attack (even compared to the 2-handed wielding Lictor) and they make up for their low attack with magic weapons and a bonus bite. To top it all off they have the lowest Encumberance (even compared to Daoine Sidhe).

Admittedly, none of the nations I compared them to are *Bless* nations per se, but these are their cap-only sacreds! At least raise the Gcost to 30. Even better, raise the Rcost to 20 (that is more in line with their protection, even if it isn't becuase of armour).

And considering that the nation has sacreds in every path, even B1 sacreds for the bloodhunters to summon, they don't need a build-anywhere sacred to maintain their sared forces. So please make the Temple Guard Cap-only.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I have had them at 32 gold for a while. I forgot they were that cheap in the version everyone else is using. I'm not sure about making them cap only - 5th gen Slann are not cap only currently.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Just because the Slann can go everywhere doesn't mean (necessarily) that the temple guard do.

Still the hike to 32 gold is good. If you don't want to make them cap only or increase their resource cost, could you consider reducing some of their stats? Maybe cutting their MR (because of their proximity to the Slann) or increasing their encumbrance or reducing their attack/strength/defense/protection.

Also, the temple guard description says they are old, but they have the same start age (in my version) as all the other Saurus infantry.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

In warhammer everywhere there are slann, there are also temple guards. So iirc it was a thematic decision based on warhammer's backstory.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

The second generation slann who helped create the seas maintains a psychic bubble around him which is nigh impregnable, though once it's popped he's not quite so tough to deal with.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1244492923

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Bubble Bobble! :happy:

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Just what I was going to say!

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Crazy thing is when I wanted to see how I should do the highlights on the bubble, this is the image I used:
http://www.lukechueh.com/images/pain...le-trouble.jpg

Bubble trouble!

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

We made Bub (or Bob?) from Bubble Bobble angry! :O

Same deal as with Skrag. You guys choose which you prefer. Ridiculous overkill or classic glowy eyes wrath.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1244505487

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Can we have one where he rocks out with an electric guitar that's actually MADE from electricity? His hands are already on the first and last fret.

Jazzepi

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

What if you used glowy eyes for the primary sprite, and ridiculous overkill for his attack sprite? I kind of like the idea of going a bit over the top for something as potent as a 2nd gen slann.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

I second Rdonj, the electric effect is most nice on a super slann.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Cool, I'll make sure all 2nd gen Slann are suitably over the top and have distinguishing abilities.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Messing around with Tzunki.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

What's Tzunki?

Looks very cool anyway. I really like the swimming sprites.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Tzunki is the Old One or lizardman god in charge of the seas. His sacred spawnings can go swimming and have various other powers. Mostly they're just badass underwater though. I'm doing a commander for each sacred spawning and I'm also tweaking them so they're as different as possible (and not just lots of recoloured saurus).

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1244581627

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Sombre those look really awesome, exactly what I was hoping you'd do when I suggested it :D

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Hmm, this next update is looking like a fair chunk of content.

3rd gen slann, a new sacred spawning, commanders for each spawning, at least 2 2nd gen slann, 2 blood spells, 1 nature spell, swimming for salamanders,... I'm tempted to stick in a first go at Stegadons too, possibly with a placeholder graphic.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Stegadons!

We want stegadons!

llamabeast
Secretary, NAPSM (National Association for the Promotion of Stegadon Mods)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Well I've added Stegadons. Currently they use a placeholder graphic which is little more than a resized, adjusted and slightly cleaned picture of the miniature with a skink howdah dropped on top. But amazingly it actually looks quite good. I'll just paint over it when I do the proper graphic - it makes a great base. No attack sprite though. I don't want to get bogged down by the stegadon graphic because I'm easing myself into graphics with the sacred summon stuff and the slann - it will have to wait for another update. Anyway I thought I'd show you what it looks like currently - it's the biggest unit width-ways in the entire game afaik.

I tossed in a couple of other things I was working on the other day as a scale comparison.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1244930927

I'm just about to do the swimming salamander sprite so you can take those underwater properly.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Ahhh I'm so excited! I want to play it now :(

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Outstanding new graphics. Can't wait to find myself battling them.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.3 update
 

Looks great Sombre! :)

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.5 finally! yay!
 

UPDATE!

Preview pics are attached.

-- Version 0.5

-- CONTENT - Nakai the Wanderer national hero added

-- TWEAK - Temples now cost 600

-- TWEAK - Sweeping morale changes to reflect effectiveness of 'cold blooded' in the warhammer tabletop - effectively it's +2 ldr - so skinks have same ldr as humans

-- TWEAK - Repriced commanders according to new scheme

-- TWEAK - Spawning of Huanchi moved to conjuration, descriptions tweaked

-- TWEAK - Blowpipes no longer ignore shields, do more damage, skink hunters better prec

-- TWEAK - Skink costs reduced significantly

-- TWEAK - Slann can no longer ever be empowered in blood

-- TWEAK - 4th gen Slann slightly more likely to get nature, another 10% on elements

-- CONTENT - Terradon summon added

-- CONTENT - Stegadon recruitable added with placeholder graphic, no attack sprite

-- CONTENT - Added flood of serpents, rain of snakes and serpents of sotek spells

-- CONTENT - Added Third Generation Slann

-- CONTENT - Added Second Generation Slann of the Seas

-- CONTENT - Added watershape to Tzunki spawning

-- CONTENT - Added Nightscale of Huanchi, Bloodscale of Sotek, Deepscale of Tzunki, Sunscale of Chotec

-- Version 0.4

-- TWEAK - Tepok spawnings now teleport (fly)

-- TWEAK - Temple Guard gold and resource cost raised

-- TWEAK - Terradon mount attacks att improved

-- TWEAK - All summoned sacred spawnings now upkeep free

-- FIX - Resolved weapon ID conflicts with CBM and my other MA mods + Tomb Kings

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.5 finally! yay!
 

Just a quick bug report:
-the Third Generation Slann changes shape to ID 3002, which appears to use the sprite of a human commander.
-the One Who Fathomed The Depths doesn't have an unique name, like his description suggests, and doesn't have amphibian, which he should have, still according to the description.

This was taken with CBM on, but it shouldn't make difference.

Looking at the mod file, the Slanns have a LOT of abilities which aren't listed in their descriptions.Is this WAD?

Another (very minor) bug: in the nation description, the Race;Military;Magic;Priests voices aren't indexed.

Yet another(I really got nothing to do today:D): the Spinescale of Quetzl(the leader) mentions ranged attacks in his description, but he has none; I suppose that the 6 attacks "tail spines" was meant to be ranged?

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.5 finally! yay!
 

Thanks, I suspected there would be a bunch of bugs. The main post will be updated within a couple minutes of this post with v0.6 including fixes to most of that. Couple of other things:

I'm not sure what you mean about Slann having a lot of abilities which aren't mentioned in the description. If you're referring to Zlatlan for instance, the domspread is pretty fully explained in other descriptions, since the 5 second generation slann are basically the most holy things on the planet. The gem production is just from his mastery of water magic. I don't really like dryly listing everything they can do and I think most of it is covered anyway.

You can't really do unique hero names, that's not a bug. Just rename him manually.

Not sure what you mean by voices not indexed. If you mean they don't start on new lines, it's because dom3 doesn't recognise lind ends from notepad which I use to edit text files. It's still completely readable though. I might expand the description a little in the next update, because it's pretty bare currently.

-- version 0.6

-- FIX - Skink Warchief given swamp survival

-- FIX - 3rd gen Slann shapechange fixed

-- FIX - One who fathomed the depths now amphibious as intended

-- FIX - Tail Spines now ranged attack

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.5 finally! yay!
 

I have the feeling blood vengeance and halt sacred on the bloodscales of sotek might be a little overkill. These new sacred spawning leaders are definitely feeling thuggable. It may be made up for by how relatively hard it is for them to get much benefit out of blood though.

So far, in game I've only summoned the warriors of chotec and xhotl. Chotec's warriors are nice, but the commander is pretty amazing in your dominion. And I have to say, I love the new warriors of xhotl. Especially with the s9/e6/n4 bless I play itza with. 2 free lives and being largely immune to magic is very fun.

And of course, stegadons are much fun as well. I wouldn't say they're completely practical all the time, but they are what every other recruitable trampler wishes it was. Well, except for being cold blooded and racking up incredible amounts of fatigue. But as long as you use them sensibly that's really not a big problem. Their bows don't tend to be that amazing, but what do you expect from a bunch of skinks.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

Ah yes, that's true about the 3rd generation Slann. I had intended to give them domsummon2 or something of temple guard but I decided against it until I could test more (spawning units with upkeep can be a bit problematic). So just ignore that bit in the description for now I guess :]

The Bloodscales are potentially the cheapest to get (if you get a big blood economy) but I think you're right that going so strongly into blood with lizards is somewhat tricky. Their unholy axe does work very well against sacred enemies, but I haven't seen their blood vengeance actually do that much yet - I will have to try thugging them with more than a couple of items and see what happens. I guess they could be used to swarm an SC and maybe kill him with blood vengeance or something, but it gets an mr roll to resist after all.

Regarding Chotec - I think giving the sunscale heatpower 3 might be a bit too strong, though if I remember correctly it also makes him completely rubbish in the inevitable cold 3 you're going to run into (especially if the enemy has water magic).

Xhotl is probably my favourite spawning at the moment, graphics (bubblegum!), flavour and gameplay wise. They're just awesome with a big communion behind them laying down crazy aoe cold, shock and poison. Of course they get absolutely owned by fire magic, even fireflies sorts them out easily.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

Actually I looked back at the slann while posting and saw that they do have the domsummon in there when the slann is dormant. So I edited my post in the hopes no one would see that :P If you're worried about having them summon units with a gold cost you could maybe make an alternate version of the temple guard that doesn't cost anything. But I'm not sure that's really necessary especially if they are only creating them when they're dormant, since they are your best option for breaking into high level ritual spells.

Yeah, I don't see how you could really put much effort into even researching blood in the first few years. By the time you actually have the research and slaves to spare to cast it the benefit of their having blood vengeance is likely significantly lessened. I haven't actually used them yet so if you think it's not a big deal it probably isn't. But blood vengeance is something that's pretty rare in the game, confined to expensive late items and very high end blood magic so having it available on a cheap low end summon seems overpowered even if it isn't.

The heat power 3 does make him pretty strong in heat 3 dominion. But you're right, any sensible player in mp with water magic available to them will spam wolven winter at any province they expect to have a major battle in. Might be a bit harder to do though if you use the sunscales as in-dominion thugs.

If you pop the bubble with fire magic, does that 500% extra damage carry over to the second form? I've had times with second shapes where it seems they take spillover damage from the primary form and if that carries over, you could just cast combustion and watch them all go poof. The Xhotl summons are very fun though, they definitely offer you a lot of battlefield flexibility.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

I don't think any damage done to the shield carries over no. If it does it's probably down to some glitch. The main point is whatever prot you put on them, any amount of fire is probably going to blast right through it.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

By the way, ogre and lizard startsites still conflict with each other... :P

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

The point of going blood-4 isn't the summons, it's for Flood of Snakes--by the way, did you mean to have that spell be free? It's extraordinarily brutal to start spamming it year one. It can take down anything that doesn't have archer support. Two casts can take down a knight or elephant province, or most castles' province defence. Try out getting an awake sage and blitzing to blood 4, it's a lot of fun. By early winter year one you get an expansion army every time you make one or two priests of sotek(and a scout or indy commander to capture the provinces).

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

No, obviously not -sigh-

I tested it before and it was working fine, guess I somehow messed up the fatigue cost since then. Ah I see, I retyped it at one point and typoed fatigue.

I will fix that shortly. But I will wait a couple days before I upload another version, in case anyone spots other bugs to fix. Otherwise this is just going to get ridiculous.

In the meantime you can go into the dm file using a text editor, find "Flood of serpents" then manually replace the typo of fatiguecost with the correct spelling. The cost will then be 10 slaves.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

Tail spines is still a melee attack.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

I've been thinking... and I know this would be a radical shift from how the lizardmen play now, so it could be difficult to balance, but it just does not seem thematic that temple guard can become as numerous as they can. Basically right now, temple guard are THE unit that itza makes. Well, them and priests. But 90% of the time if you're recruiting a soldier it will be a temple guard. Since the temple guard is supposed to be the rarest of spawnings I am not certain that they should be recruit everywhere sacreds. Actually, what do you think of making all slann auto or domsummon them instead, with no recruitables? You could remove the price tag on them so they wouldn't cause upkeep issues.

Anyway it's just an idea. I see all these great units in my recruitment roster but I know unless I'm in dire need of extra units I'll never recruit them because temple guard are just that good.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

That sounds like an amazing idea, but very hard to balance. It would definitely change the flavor of the whole nation, making them much more slann-centric.

Re: Warhammer Nation: Lizardmen - v0.6 UPDATE
 

Having them as autosummons would indeed make them quite hard to balance.

I do agree with rdonj though, it is very easy to end up just always making Temple Guard (as I did in Warhammerama). How about just making them capital only?