Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I think smaller maps with fewer and more qualified (either by reputation, track record or whatever) players and no NAPS is a movement in the right direction.

Large games invariably lead to a number of problems.
You get the fly-by-night players with 3 posts that sign up after having a few drinks and wake up like they were next to Sade the Harpy and abandon the game. Then there is the overenthusiastic noob signed up in 10 games that will flare out half way through and collapse meteorically.

In large games also there is the sense that with 12+ nations, you can dogpile on a few and not worry about the consequences until much later. A lot of these games are just a series of regional dogpiles. I am guessing with 6 or 8 nations, while there still will be dogpiling, the paranoia of survival kicks in much earlier and just the fact there are less nations to team up with will reduce the tag-teaming, especially if the map is set up right.

Finally, smaller games/maps will lessen the late-game micro hell.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Won't smaller maps just weight the game even more in favour of the strong bless nations and giant races? Well weakening the more magic/research driven nations?

I suppose you could have easy research and high gem site % thou to help counteract that somewhat.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Meglobob:

The idea is that for smaller number of nations it's possible to pick only nations on similar level. You can pick only powerful nations for example. And with bigger map you use almost all nations, so some people get really bad nations while others get awesome.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Oh yeah, that was the other point I meant to make - thanks Zeldor.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I really don't play RND games at all, but this discussion caught my eye.

DonCorazon;

Ditto very much on all of your points. I basically just skip all games with over 12 players.

Abot random nation selection, Gregstrom made a fine game sometime ago with quite good random nation selection. It went like this;

Each player, upon sign up, selects a nation. Once all players have selected a nation, the players are assigned RND nations from all of the nations selected by players.

Basically you likely end up with all weak nations or all strong nations depending on the first pick, but with healthy variation.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I had an idea once where wars could not be joined...
this is how it would work...




no one may attack anyone period.

If you would like to attack someone else all you have to do is post publicly a declaration of war. you may then attack them as much as you want.



Anyone who wishes to ally with you against that nation may do so. A full turn later though that war get's locked in on your side. That means no one else can attack the other player until either the other player wins the war, gets you to agree to a truce, or gains his own ally. (once a truce is joined the status goes back to how it was before... or some such)




If you have been attacked by another player you may call upon allies to assist you... however you again may only declare allies on one specific turn. (just like starting a war) these allies may then attack the enemy allied group and vica versa until the war is won or is over or is halted publicly...





so under these rules no one can ever sneak attack anyone and no one can ever dogpile onto someone.... (you can still make a sneak attack in that the person will only ever have one turn of warning... which is still a lot less than 3turns everyone is getting nowadays)



This will also prevent people from just randomly joining a war as it continues... however you can still create a large (or small) alliances designed to dogpile others but you have to do it well in advance... (things could be changed so that all wars are duels that may only be 1on1 but that would be stupid and boring and totally remove diplomacy all together)


under these rules there would be no point at all in a nap3 because all nations everywhere always have a nap1... so the main diplomatic agreements to secure would be ally-ship in publicly posted wars which were nearly locked into position for quite some time...


It sounds like it might work but I am sure anyone with half a brain could pick a thousand holes into it

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

KISS :)

The solution needs to be simple to understand and follow or else it won't work.

After giving this more thought I now hold that RAND concept is sound at it's core. The main issues are:
a- subs, specifically newb subs in a vets RAND. The situation is all too familiar. The vet player is replaced by a newb. His nation, whether a strong empire or a humble kingdom is either quickly devoured or is extremely passive. Both ends unfairly impact the game result.
b- nation selection should be semi random.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

i don't think my idea is inherently complex... as far as i can tell it could be implemented in such a fashion that it would be SIMPLER than the current system...


if anything the only flaw I see in the system i proposed is that it is far too simple in every way by disallowing nearly everything and turning diplomacy into a boolean operation


i'm just inarticulate and long winded ... you know what might work well? RAND games with HALF the total player count.... smaller games end faster

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Good points, me thinks.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 54 is out.

Deadline is Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

A rehost of turn 54 is out. Deadline is Friday.

Please be sure to use the correct .2h file.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 55 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 56 is out. This is with the 3.24 patch.

Deadline is Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

The game is crashing when I host the turn.

Any potential solutions?

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Probably just have everyone re-do and re-submit their turns.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I suppose that might be the best. I'd like to get the game to run in debug mode, but I cannot get that to happen. Can someone give me exactly what to type in a unix command line? I am using a Mac.

If I am in the /Applications/Dominions3/Contents/MacOS directory, I can type "open -a Dominions3" and the game will start. If I type "open -d Dominions3" it does nothing (the game won't start). Same with "open -a Dominions 3 -d". What am I missing?

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

I have figured out using the process of elimination that it is Atul's turn that is making the game crash.

*Points finger

I ask that Atul replay his turn and resubmit.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Well, in Windows it's "/path/dominions3/dom3.exe" -ddd as a shortcut path [-ddd after ""]. On Linux it's simply ./dom3_amd64 -ddd

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 59 is out. Thank you to djo for hosting the turn. For some reason Atul's turn crashed the game on my machine but not djo's.

Deadline is Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 60 is out.

Deadline is Friday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Arco has gone AI. It was played by Lingchih.

Ashdod was played by Ygorl.

Thanks to both for playing!

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Wow, two very skilled vets in control of good nations are down. That's scary.
Pasha, you managed to get some impressive homogeneous skill level for this game. No one gets a break, no error is forgiven :eek:

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Ygorl is a vet? Ashdod's performance was one of the weakest in this game [not trying to insult Ygorl here] and very disappointing.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

ok. I may be mistaken but IIRC Ygorl played as far back as dom II and possibly even dom PPP.

I didn't mean for my comment to trigger that response. Perhaps there are factors you're not aware of that are behind Ashdod's demise. Anyway, I'm feeling uncomfortable with the direction this is taking so I opt to say no more.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Ygorl and I basically killed each other off, then others came in to mop up the carnage.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Indeed, Ygorl had returned from a hiatus. It was nice to have him play again.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Yes. I've noticed that this is pretty common in no diplo games. Once a war is started there's no way to end it so if one side doesn't win quickly both parties are doomed.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

* should have done this before opening game thread... :doh: *

Guys with Pasha's permission I'm inviting you to join YARG2 game. There are 2 last spots available so please ping me ASAP if you're interested.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

sorry about the holdup everyone. been traveling and have had no free time at all. will be back home tonight and back to a sane schedule.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 61 is out.

Deadline is Thursday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Most turns are delayed now, so how about we move to 2 turns a week, say Thurs/Sun? We are (slowly) getting to the endgame, so it seems reasonable.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I am certainly happy with that if players are. How about a Wednesday / Sunday schedule?

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Sounds good to me.

I actually think I know who will win this game anyway, don't worry I won't say who. So playing the remaining turns is probably a waste of everyones time anyway. I am not being in the least bit defeatist here by the way and will happily fight to the bitter, bitter end. Its just by this turn or earlier I have been able to predict with 100% (no joking) accuracy the eventual winner.

If enough players feel the same way, ie that they already know the winner and that future hours invested in doing there turns could be better spent doing something else more productive, we could have a vote where the remaining players PM/Email Pasha with who they think will win (in a secret honest ballot) and then perhaps call the game?

I know alot of experienced players are stubborn and refuse to admit defeat no matter what, so will understand completely if everyone wants to continue and do those fuitless, waste of time turns...:)

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I agree with MB, though I've no problem to cont. to the bitter end.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I totally agree with Meglobob, but with current VPs I think that game will never end in reasonable time frame. I have said long time ago that it should probably be declared as draw and new RAND started, fixing problems from previous ones.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

There was already a draw in the last Rand game. You guys should fight it out, or Rand will become a joke.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

We are not talking about a draw here.

There will definately be a winner, indeed I think I am 100% certain which nation it will be and its only a question of time. But because of the way Dominions late game works, it will take till turn 80 - 100+ for that nation to get the VPs to make it official. Thats 40 - 80 hrs of doing his turns for that nation to play it out and 100's+ hrs for all the other nations to play there turns. All that time for the same result if it was called now.

Lets have a secret, honest vote by pm'ing Pasha. Obviously, if a nation who is in 2nd, 3rd or 4th place has perhaps a, 'masterplan' like been saving all there astral gems to cast arcane nexus and then kick everyones butts, then continue. On the other hand if the vote went pretty much the way of one nation call it. We have a neutral host with Pasha, seems a bit stupid not to take advantage of it to save ourselves considerable amounts of time.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Sure, you are right, but I really don't think he can get enough VPs before turn 100-120. It requires attacking other tough players with their VPs being almost unconquerable. I'm against declaring winner now just like that, I don't think it's deserved.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I am happy with whatever, of course.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Of course if someone wants to surrender to me, I won't object.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Hello:

Turn 63 is out.

Deadline is Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. Boston time.

Thanks.

Pasha

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Machaka was played by Wraithlord. Thanks for playing!

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Is it safe to ask defeated players about their strategies in the thread?

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Who was Machaka?

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Zeldor failed reading comprehension

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Lasting till turn 63 playing Machaka is quite a achievement, one of the worst nations in Dom3, especially with no fever fetishes.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Thanks MB. That's exactly how I feel. Pride in being able to take this nation so far. Machaka is ok for early-mid game and I could even have optimized my build for a better early game by sacrificing any chance for end-game. Didn't do that and somehow managed to do ok with a weak nation until this turn.
Hehe, I'm more proud of this than in some of the game I won :D

Kudos to my enemy/ies esp. to the one/s that have managed to vanquish Machaka.

Looking forward to next Pasha's RAND, hopefully, after getting all the weak nations in previous RANDs I'd get a nation worth a damn ;)

GL all.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

I'm ok with this though it would be difficult w/o disclosing information that should be kept discrete given the nature of this game. I guess it's probably better to wait for the end and not take chances.

I would like to make one comment though as I think it's harmless. I took misfortune 2 in a few games in a row under CBM. In all I got such crappy luck with lot's of bad events, so much so as to seriously hurt my nations. This game was no exception.
When the game's over I'd be happy to share my turns. The frequency of bad events should be interesting to observe :)
So, lesson learned -I ain't taking more than misfortune 1 with CBM anymore!

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Well mainly I was wondering why you built so many sorceresses.

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

why not? ;)

What's not to like?- cheap, cost effective in research and combat support & survivable to top that. One of the few bright spots in the sad tail of Machaka. If only they were recruit anywhere or, given a +1 E/D pick (+ appropriate increase in cost)...

Re: Land Rand (pbem)
 

Well I guess I don't see why you would recruit them instead of Black Sorcs.