Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Sub is found. Everyone please give a hand to (this space intentionally left blank) for taking up the reigns of (undisclosed nation). An additional 24 hours have been added for a total delay of 48 hours on the current turn, please try to get your turns in within this time frame.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

The sub was having some difficulty extracting the map... calahan, did you make that with 7zip? I had to go really out of my way to open it myself! Anyway, attached is a .rar version to allow him to extract it. Hopefully this works.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Memorial Day delay has been added to the timer. This is a pretty long delay, so please try to get your turns in before the next hosting.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Turn 30 and not even one player is out!

I take it as a measure of the tenacity and skill level of the players. Kudos all :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Or some players are just lame. =P

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

:lol

Could it be that we're all lame players?- That could also explain this remarkable land mark. ;)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I'd say it's because of wraparound map.
You wouldn't throw all your forces at your neighbour knowing there are lots of potential enemies surrounding you from all sides.

Also I haven't seen any lame players around me, but again I might be lame myself. :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I see nothing but a lame player everywhere I look!!!!

But then I do live in a house full of mirrors :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Vanity, thy name is ... Calahan?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I lined up that comeback beautifully for myself I must say :lol:

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Ahh, I see we've gone to a once a week game. Nice. That will keep players interested.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I thought the point of RAND games was to play faster because no one had to conduct diplomacy...

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Unfortunately, as we get into summer, it's likely to get worse.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Yes, but its not even turn 40 yet. Whose turn can possibly be taking more than an hour or so at this point? If you can't spend an hour every 2 days, there's something wrong with your time budgeting.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Maybe someone has no internet access or expects a baby this week or some such...

I trust in rdonj's judgment not to hold us all waiting in vain.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

As it turns out someone died. 48 hours isn't so much to ask in this case, is it?

I realize this game has a lot of extensions. So did the last YARG. The policy for this game is liberal hosting delays, which definitely any previous YARG player is aware of, and is stated in the opening post. So far about half of the hosting delays have been for very good reasons beyond a person just being busy. YARG games are RAND games for busy people... don't be too surprised at the laid back pace. This will continue. There may not be delays every turn, but it was not at all uncommon in the last one to have a delay every other turn after a certain point, though that did calm down a bit. Just chill out and wait for the turns. They will come.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Thanks rdonj for the work you are doing.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

As shocking as I'm sure this will sound to some of those who read this, but there are actually players in the Dominions community who like slow paced MP games :shock:

Sometimes it's because they like the extra time it allows them to put deeper thought into their turns. Sometimes it's because they have another game or two going, and like doing just one turn in one game each day. Sometimes it's just because they are slow players. And sometimes it's because their brains just work very slowly, and no amount of forcing it to work quicker will help. (I've included this latter point just for me :))

Often though it's a case of they just don't have the time, or sometimes more to the point is that they don't want to have the time. It sounds easy to say something like "you only need to find one hour to complete a turn over the space of 48 hours". But some people genuinely find that time hard to find on a monotonously regular basis over a several month period. Then there are others who actually don't want to devote time every single day for six months to playing Dominions.


For me, slower paced games play a definite and distinct role in the Dominions MP scene. Since it allows players who, for any number of reasons, can only play in a slow pace, to be able to play MP games of Dominions. And for those players who actually want to play a slower paced game. As these players are basically excluded from every regular MP game simply because they struggle, and they know they will struggle, to keep up with the 'normal' pace of those games. I'd take a good bet that many of the players from the first YARG game have only signed up for this sequel because they liked the pace of the first game. And some who haven't returned, haven't returned because after experiencing it, they found they didn't like the pace.


The argument surrounding slow paced games has come up several times before. Slower paced games do in fact work perfectly. They work just as perfectly as normal paced games, and just as perfectly as faster paced games. The only thing that tends to mar any of these game types is when players have signed up to a pace they personally don't like. And the fault lies there in those players, not in the actual pacing of the game.

The most sure-fire way to spoil any fast paced game is if players need regular delays. As that results in complaints from the annoyed players who signed up specifically because it was advertised as a fast paced game. And that's a 100% valid argument and complaint. Well the same works in reverse too you know, and the only thing that mars slow paced games is people complaining about the slow pace of the game.

Plus in this actual game, the schedule was advertised the moment the game was created, and it has never been altered. As it is the exact same schedule as the first YARG game. With the exact same 'generous delay' policy as well. So I don't see how there can be any complaints about the slow pace unless players omitted to fully read the rules and settings written in the original post when they signed up. Which is again the fault of the player and not the pace of the game.


What I find interesting is that during my time in the Dominions MP community, the same type of players who complain about delays in slow paced games, are often the same type of players who complain about delays in fast paced games. Ok, we get it, you like a really fast pace to your games, but please don't expect all other players to share you pacing views, and please don't complain about the slow pace of a slow paced game. Since the fault lies entirely with the individual doing the complaining, as he or she has signed up for a pace of game they themselves don't like.

I don't particularly like Thai food, so just about the last thing I'd do is specifically go into a Thai restaurant for a meal, and then all my time there do nothing but complain about the Thai food! How stupid and moronic would that be like?!?! As I'm pretty sure all the other customers in the restaurant are only there simply because they actually like Thai food :) and I'd just look like a complete retard for complaining about it. Well........snap.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Liberal delays are one thing, but you hardly expect there to be a multi-day delay *every turn*.

Of course, my situation in the game is probably contributing to my desire for a little faster pace at the moment, but I really can't say more than that.

I don't mind a slow pace to a game. But I generally prefer there to be diplomacy if its going to be this slow.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

There are 24 players still in the game you know. That's a lot of players, and if just half of them have requested a delay to date, then that easily accounts for the number of delays seen in this game.

Plus the actual Real Life time period covered with this game so far has seen it clash with national holidays in several different countries. So extensions that were granted for these occasions should not be considered unreasonable in any way. In fact in games with 20+ players in I think delays for national holidays should be mandatory without anyone even having to ask for one.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

It's no biggee now. I was annoyed at first, even though I knew it would be slow-paced, but I never expected 1 turn a week pace. I've gotten over it. I just check once a week to see if it's hosted now.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game
 

Strange. Game should have hosted yesterday. Quick host is on but it hasn't hosted yet :confused:

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Yeah, the llamaserver is acting up a bit right now and isn't hosting any games, apparently. I may have inadvertently been responsible for this. Moving on, there are a few players with outstanding turns whom I've notified of their impending stales. If all turns getin I can try to force host and see what happens... I'm not 100% convinced this is a good idea.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I have a bad feeling re. force host. Like the server hosting twice and force a rollback -> ugly.

I suggest to wait until llama does his magic and get's the server fixed.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Yes, that is my feeling as well. I can imagine that is the exact sort of idea that would make all sorts of unexpected bugs crop up. That's settled then, definitely no forced hosting.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Ok, why are we rolled back to turn 33? I definitely got sent a turn 34 this morning, and haven't heard anything since, either from llamaserver or in this thread - wth? If you couldn't get your turn in by the deadline, and you didn't ask for an extension (and llamaserver was still processing extensions till host time), too bad.

(Now i'm going to have to do all that rescripting again. F'ing rollbacks.)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I've done nothing to the current turn. Apparently the llamaserver errors are just blowing everything up right now. I most certainly did NOT do a rollback, and I don't think wraithlord would have done one without telling me.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

@ rdonj - You might want to consider force hosting turn 33 before anyone sends a turn file in.

Since as it stands now, we could have the bigger problem of players submitting altered turns for turn 33, and thereby either intentionally, or unintentionally, gaining an advantage from the knowledge they gained from the turn 34 file the llamaserver sent out before it decided to instigate a random rollback.

If you force host now, then the worst scenario you will have is that everyone staled (as maybe the llamasever wiped out the .2h files it stored for turn 33, instead of storing them as it usually does) and you will have to rollback again to turn 33 and let everyone re-submit their turns. But if that happens, then you will be in the same position as now, so will have lost nothing.

If it does successfully rehost though, the game will just continue as normal, and as long as everyone is told to delete all instances of the original turn 34 they received, then everything should be ok.


If new turn 33 files start getting sent in though, this could all get a bit messy IMO :(

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

mmm... is the llamaserver fixed yet? I don't know that we should do anything until that is the case. Force hosting seems like a reasonable plan, but I don't want to do that if it is going to mess things up any further.

Edit: Upon further review I think it is safe currently to try to do a forced hosting. If everyone does stale I am not convinced that a rollback is a good idea though. So, I am going to do it. As long as no bugs crop up we will continue forward regardless of mass staling or not.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I only got a normal turn 34 and then a force-hosted turn 35. I have no idea what all the talk about rollbacks and changed turns is about. Please roll-back to 34, it makes a difference.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Wait, you got a turn 35? Not only did I not get that, Llamaserver said the game was on turn 33! (Its now back on 34, and I am still confused!)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

oh wow, this is made of fail.

The server is sending a different turn number than it thinks its on. Llamaserver thinks its on turn 34, it just sent me an email saying it was turn 34, but when i dled the turn it thinks its turn 35. Of course, this means any attempt to submit a turn will fail, because it'll read the incoming turn as 35, which is not 34, and tell you that you submitted the wrong turn!

Strangely enough, my turn e-mail this morning claimed it was for turn 34 (while the server displayed 33 and the game displayed 34), but the new email also claimed 34 (server displays 34, game displays 35).

Horribly horribly broken!

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I guess the only sensible answer is to send out the llamasignal. Let's do that and see what happens!

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

:) So the llamaserver tricked us into thinking it did a rollback, when it actually just changed the turn number on it's emails and status page to make it appear the game had rolled-back. That's certainly a good one :lol: and confirms the llamaserver is definitly developing a personality all to itself.


Options now are either to wait until llamabeast wades in to bust some heads open. Or roll the game back, make sure everyone knows to use the most recent turn file, and then wait to see (and hear) if it will accept turn files. Or not, because the servers current turn number for the game is out-of-synch with the game's actual current turn number. (as it might be the game that checks if the turn files are correct rather than the llamaserver. If it's the game that checks them, things should be ok. Apart from the out-of-synch status page and emails that is)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

The turn number in the email is different from the actual turn number, that is the only problem. Wait for llamabeast to do his magic and then roll back to turn 34, nobody submit anything in the meantime. Then use the received turn 34 to continue.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Yeah, the llamaserver has learned how to play pranks on us :)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Ok, I haven't looked into the details here, but the server's turn number is now correct. If you guys did a force host, maybe you'll want to do a rollback. Or perhaps you should just continue from where you are.

Sorry about the problems. Turns out it all arises from a typo on Tuesday. Butterflies and all that.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Thank you llamabeast. I'm rolling back the turn now... pray all goes well, everyone.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

I'm sure you know this rdonj, but the game's gone. Llamasignal? :help:

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

This game comes with a terrible curse!

...but it also comes with a free frogurt!

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Guys, ATM YARG2 game is not listed as an active game on the server. I've no idea what's going on or how long it would take to fix but I strongly urge everyone not to submit any turns now. We will sort this all out eventually and I'm sure rdonj will give enough time for ppl to submit their turns.

Poor poor llama server - It's not feeling well now :sick:
Get some rest you sturdy beast and don't forget your medicine ;)

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Okay, hopefully I've restored it, but I think it can't be rolled back. It got itself in a tangle when backing up the turn files on account of being wrong about the turn number.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Err... my new turn e-mail just claimed to be turn 36, and the server is showing turn 35. I'm hesitant to try to actually do anything with it...

Edit: Game thinks its turn 36 too. Um... Where's our time machine?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Thank you llamabeast.

Now we have incoming turn 36 and rolled back turn 35. Which should we play?

Also, Sharivar1 game was on 120h schedule and is now on 24 - meaning all the players would stale. For some reason the admin pwd has been changed (probably due to glitch). Can you please restore my admin powers for Sharivar1?

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Yep, sorry about that! For some reason when I restored it it instantly hosted. So:

IGNORE the turn 36.

PLAY the rolled back turn 35.

Hopefully you can move on smoothly from here. Apologies again for the lost turn 34.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Just a suggestion - I will be deleting .2h and .trn files from Yarg2 folder before ending this turn and submitting. I believe this reduces the chance of conflicts going forward.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Is there no way to roll-back to turn 34? Or to 33 and redo that one? The stale is seriously hurting me.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

Psycho - I'm very sorry but I don't think so, no.

If it helps, I guess you could consider it a rather major random event ("magic storms prevent the pretender communicating with his kingdom for a month").

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

That is most unfortunate. I am not happy, but I guess I'll have to live with it.

Re: YARG2 , 24 players EA RAND game [send your pretenders!]
 

If it helps I'm also not happy, but I'll see it as llamabeast describes it - another major bad event :)