Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

As the usurpers have *very* poor pretender suggestions, I'd really like to restrict this to unlimited in your theme paths, 3 everywhere else.

I'm having a hard time following the water discussion, I'll have to study it further.

regarding the mountains: I'm ok with the proposal that roughly half the borders get turned into mountains.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

As the usurpers have *very* poor pretender suggestions, I'd really like to restrict this to unlimited in your theme paths, 3 everywhere else.

I'm having a hard time following the water discussion, I'll have to study it further.

regarding the mountains: I'm ok with the proposal that roughly half the borders get turned into mountains.

I actually did not know that bandar log got to build forts in mountains - they are one of my least favorite nations. But yes it definitely is in my interest to slow down the speed at which the usurpers get over run = ).

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Kraken is not good because it will fall quickly to arrows. And actually to make an amulet of the wish you have to give him W+A. While that may be ok in a regular game, I think this makes no sense here.
I'm glad you're fine with allowing an archmage. That may greatly add to merc effectiveness.

I understand that. Then probably some combo of common 1-gem underwater sites could work

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Chris, I already said what I think regarding this. I am sure that S9W9 mictlan will be a balance-breaker in this game so while I don't mind it in general, I do mind it for Mictlan. If Mictlan is restricted to, say, W6S9, or just W9, I'm fine with it.
And regarding overall balance, while your team may not have the best starting conditions (although expansion possibilities are absolutely ok), you have simply fantastic perspectives from many good national summons, battle magics, communions etc and while I see the point in strengthening Children or Sanginarium, I am sure that your team has no need for further strengthening.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I think the site 10 thousand things should work fine to give me 1 gem income in many different type : http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Ten_Thousand_Things

If I am able to take a rainbow mage (archmage or better great seer of the deep) I will probably do it since it seems that I will have no need of an awake SC but many things to gain from a good magical diversity.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Maybe we ought to take this particular discussion to PMs as well. Don't want to complicate things too much here. Mixed blessings in your suggestion for Children of Crom, would hurt our potential E9N9 Great Mother bless, but would cut down on the fire incursions and fix the Wyrm.

I will have to do something about the Wyrm, one way or another. We got three different suggestions here:

1. Current scheme - unlimited on native pretender paths, 3 elsewhere.

2. Ano proposal - unlimited on team paths and native paths, 3 elsewhere.

3. Chris proposal - unimited on team paths and 3 elsewhere.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

It is land-only, zegc-ben.
There're a lot of underwater sites that give 1 gem in several schools. I think that proper combination can be found.
Yes, of course, the Great Seer is better

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Guys, let's keep it simple.
Unlimited on team paths and 3 everywhere else is absolutely fine if Mictlan is not allowed taking W9S9 bless.
I strongly disagree with Mictlan given ability to take W9S9 especially considering the fact Usurpers may take W9S9 on Bandar and no other nation can actually take a proper bless for their sacreds. If my opinion means something and though I was the one who supported bringing Mictlan in, I vote "definitely NO" to W9S9 jags and eagles in this game no matter which exactly rule prohibits it.

I actually don't see anything more to discuss here. If Mictlan is allowed W9S9, I promise I'll start Chris-like asking for S9 for Ermor (although I don't want and need it) and this will never end. This game is designed so that there's no place for uber-blesses and thus allowing a super-effective uber-bless just because team paths are accidentally one of the best for a bless is unwise especially considering that it may be the second one for a team.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Heh, this is what I was talking about balance/competition jockeying overtaking role playing and fun.

Well dudes, there's seems to be some agreement on some mountain masks and some freshwater masks. (I assume DrP gets a vote on it as well, but he will probably be OK with some mountains and some freshwater masks. That is the good point.

But the bad point. If there is no agreement on path restrictions, the current rules will remain in effect and the Wyrm, will be denied everything above level 3 in all paths. I am fine with this. Children of Crom will have to deal with the potential high level fire incursions on the Moloch or Bakemonu Kunshu. Its not our primary path so not a big deal I suppose.

Unlimited on team paths and limiting native paths sort of hurts the love the Children of Crom is supposed to be getting here according to Ano as the great mother would lose the potentially powerful E9N9 bless.

So either we come up with a solution workable for all, we stick with the current rubric, we go to unlimited on team paths only (nixing the great mother bless but otherwise OK) and Chris will either have to choose R'lyeh with the sea provinces that are currently on the map, maybe with 4 more as I indicated), or take Mictlan with a special restriction on one of their team paths, or take T'ien Chi'.

Don't get frustrated, we can't have everything we want here and we can't achieve total perfect balance. No game can, especially not an RPG game. So maybe we should stick with what Ano already agreed on previously. I could play r'lyeh or the Usurper captain, and maybe someone can take the children of Crom.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Septimius
I think you meant E9N9 not for Ashdod but for someone else? Agartha, Marignon? Ashdod issue seem to have been discussed before. E9N9 Adons are more game-breaking than S9W9 jags :))
If it is not Ashdod I don't mind, moreover, I stand for giving your team some bonuses as it seems quite weak atm. Although, as I mentioned above, giving your team the Risen Oracle would a much better (and thematic) bonus than allowing generally weak E9N9 for Agartha. But that's only my opinion/experience.
My position is simple - I am against allowing S9W9 bless for Mictlan or giving other major bonuses to the Usurpers as I consider them very strong and having great potential (once again, no argues here) and I am for giving some bonuses to the Cromites as I consider them quite weak with current setup. It doesn't matter much to me which exactly rule of the discussed it will be.
Also, yes, gameplaying, planning and thinking are much more important to me than roleplaying and that's the kind of person I am. Sorry for that, but all people are different. ;) ;)

p.s. Also, please note that I never asked for any bonuses for my own team with the single exception of the situation when rules got accidentally and drastically changed. Firstly, I had plans very different from what we have now but we can live with all the changes since that time and don't complain

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

This game attracts some of the most intelligent people I've met. I've ruled out the Risen Oracle, using the same process I ruled out the Gorgon, and other pretenders. No team should have a pretender that has a native path in another teams primary path. If I make exceptions for my own team, I must make exceptions for other teams. You get my drift. Why then can't the blood team have the Gorgon if they want? Lets not go back there. So lets see what we can work out from here or just stick with what we got.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I'd say:
1. End the discussion about team allowances. I see them as generally balanced, but even if it isn't so, it's clear from the start. And all players joined this game knowing it... ;) AFAIK general agreement is that the most powerful paths are Blood, Death, Astral. Earth isn't bad due to forge bonus obtainable. All teams have nations with good troops and those with lategame power, too.
2. Changing path allowances will probably promote changing which Pretenders are allowed - it doesn't matter if I have Ageless Olm if I still can't use him to get high water. This is another discussion we can quite do without.
3. I'm for increasing usefulness of merc player. I think allowing rainbow Pretender is a good feature here. Adding site and/or more water provinces may also be good in this case.
4. Let's bloody frigging start!

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Look, I'm not trying to game the system, Im trying to alert to a problem.

Look according to how I understand it:

Jotenheim has *1* choice of pretender: the green dragon
Vanheim has *1* choice of pretender: the green dragon.
Mictlan has *2*: the oracle and the blue dragon.

given that dragons are widely viewed as suck as* pretenders... this doesn't seem right.

Compare that with Ctis - who has 10. Every single member of ano's team has no less than 5 choices.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

That simplifies things a bit, but it is a scenario and rpg'er. I haven't seen DrP complaining, wisely he stays out of these types of discussions. So does Gandalf. :D Maybe we could learn from them.

Do you have your heart set on coming in, only if you can play Mictlan? Yes/no

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

If you're talking to me, I'll be happy playing Pythium instead of R'lyeh if everyone'd prefer no water.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

No was directing it at Chris. Everyone knows your willing to play whatever. Kuddos to you. :D

I need to know whether Chris is in the game as captain or not at this point. Whether he will only play if he can have mictlan with certain features or if he is willing to keep R'lyeh or take T'ien Chi' as alternative.

I've already agreed to do more work in adding some mountains and some freshwater masks to the map. If more underground lake provinces are desired, I can add 4 more if I can find locations that would be evenly spaced and with limited obstruction to the AI and land game. But that is about it as far as water on this map goes. That was my intention from the beginning to have a mostly land based game, with a strange gimp named R'lyeh and strange Atlanteans (read the background story!). I would be happy to captain Usurpers as is and play R'lyeh or any other nation as is. But I've never been competitive minded.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Thanks:), but I'll have to qualify that. I have a preference for nations that can defend well.Ooo, that'll work too! :happy:

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

But I won't put it all on Chris. Ano wants him to be the exception to everyone else and take a bless in the team's secondary path that is less than other teams get (ashdod being the exception, poor Children of Crom). But of course he is worried about uber blessed eagle something or others.

I've sent a comprise to them via PM on the path restrictions. Unlimited in primary, 6 in secondary and/or native, and 3 in all else. A bit more complicated than what we've got but at least it does apply evenly to all.

At this point I need a yes or no from Chris whether he is in the game and what nation they are going with (Mictlan, R'lyeh, or Tien Chi'), otherwise we keep looking for another Captain or promote from the ranks of the Usurpers. Uh oh Algae.:D DrP is out of town till Thursday, I'm anxious to start as much as Wrana, but our estimated starting date is not till the end of the month. So we are OK, so far. And Gandalf must have a final list of nations to complete his work on the AI.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I am absolutely fine with this suggestion.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

As am I.

Oh, and will we be using the CBM?...

If it gets to that then I'll want an advisor ASAP.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I think you should discuss whether or not to use cbm.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I don't mind bowing out, comments per pm.
Sept do you still want the gem thing we discussed like 20 pages back?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I hope no. :D
Actually, I thought that if it wasn't mentioned at the starting post... ;)

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

What, we're not using CBM?!?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Didn't in the last one, either.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Supplicants of Set are stongly against CBM

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

All games in the series are vanilla. If it was CBM you'd have seen it indicated either in thread title/and or in opening post. This is generally a mod free game (excepting the BI mod, and I'm still trying to gauge how effective that one is versus its drawbacks). The only other mod I really ever entertained using was the End Game Diversity Mod due to the benefit it might bring to Children of Crom in particular.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Failing any objections from DrP or his team, I am allowing a single rainbow pretender for the merc, by adding the Aquatic Archmage to their available pretenders.

I am also changing the pretender path restrictions.

The new pretender path restrictions will be as follows:

Unlimited magic in team's Primary Path, level 6 max in a teams Secondary path and/or any paths native to your pretender, and level 3 max in anything else.

This does several important things: It retains the primacy of the main paths, allows me to keep all currently available pretenders choices in the game, including the Wyrm, and lets you give your natively single path pretenders more magic in the secondary path. I will update the teams&themes.pdf shortly to reflect this.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We need one more player to captain a team, whether it be replacing me or taking Usurpers. I have sent a PM'ed proposal to Chris. If he accepts, well and good, if not, that is fine as well.

Algae and Co, I am always willing to switch over to your team and captain the team if need be. It works for me just the way it is. :D. If your willing to step up again (I know you have great courage) that is not a problem. Advisors can't hurt for any team. Neither could more alternates. We've some time yet, so no emergency.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Then why not use it here? I really liked it and actually it might bring path-oriented balance into our current magic-restricted design.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I am still considering it and had consulted Llama on it. I was waiting on the new version Llama was set to release.

Let me add for all, that in addition to the partial mountains/freshwater terrain mask map changes which are generally agreed upon, if the potential usurpers captain wants/needs those 4 extra water provinces, I am leaning now toward placing them on the diagonals (less obstructing than the edges perhaps) and possibly connecting them with the center and each other but not with the corners for obvious reasons. The option to connect with the R'lyeh cap will be available. I will probably however not assign VPs to these extra ones if used, as I don't want to bias the VP victory condition too much in favor of R'lyeh or the death team on a mostly all land map.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I'm not either for or against it. It seems interesting, but I like an idea of mod-clear environment, too. So OK either way.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Sept, as I said in private, I do not want to change the terms of the pretenders to this.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I am strongly in favor of this new rubric, but as I say, if DrP is against it, and we are sure you will actually be in the game, reverting back may be considered.

Another type of mod I would consider is one that makes all of a teams pretender choices available to every nation on that team. So in all cases (but especially vanheim, jotunheim, Mictlan (if chosen)), a nation such as jotunheim for instance, would be able to choose a Moloch, fountain of blood, black bull, etc as a pretender.

This may require quite a bit of work, lines of code, and all pretenders so designed would need to conform to the standard number of design points as used in-game on awake pretenders and to the path rubric as well to keep things fair, so as an alternative, if DrP feels he wants a certain generally available team pretender for Jotunheim or Vanheim, or in the case of Mictlan, then we can likely handle it quite easily via a simple map edit, known only to Gandalf (will have to confirm with him on this). This is optional of course (DrP seemed OK with the choices he had), but if he wants something already available to his team in leiu of the Green Dragon, like a Moloch for Van or Jottun, it can be probably be handled without the need of a mod file in such limited cases.

For game 3, if themes are used, I will likely create a large mod that make all team pretenders available to all nations, and also perhaps adds a few non-standard pretenders to each team for fun :D. This idea was expressed earlier by DrP, but I think a dry run using only standard pretenders is the best way to go first. Many commander type units in the game may in theory be used as pretender for either AI or human players (but there lots of balance considerations to think of).;)

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Yes, it may be a good idea. I don't remember whether it's possible to remove standart Pretenders, though. Still, in any case if we make theme game mod, we would be able to increase price of standart ones enough to make them effectively unavailable for wrong teams.
Another thing: I think that for future games it would be better to make merc team of some nation which has spies and/or assassins available.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

For future games Id suggest that the mercs be handled by something like the Watcher, DungeonMaster, or Debug mods which were created for that. To allow an all-game-view and all-game-impact. They can easily expand the game allowing many new random events, messages, punishments, rewards,

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

That's another thing entirely. Something like current Legendary Ordeals game, with Pantokrator giving tests to his subject gods to decide which one is worthy his throne. Mercenary nation shouldn't have such abilities, just enough various options to make it worthy for other factions to cultivate it.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

I am giving the Usurpers and their captain the option (as an incentive to keep R'lyeh as planned) by offering the following 4 extra subtereraean lake provinces in these locations:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2h3zqqp.jpg

These 4 provinces would be: 202, 191, 80, and 83.
3 of them are forest, but since these are underground lakes, there's nothing saying there can't be forests or trees on top as well. They would be connected to the merc but not with corner lakes directly and would not be assigned a VP.

R'lyeh's cap can be connected to one of these (whichever is closest).

This placement and connection with R'lyehs cap offer many advantages to both the Usurpers and the merc and everyone in general:

1. It extends R'lyehs offensive capability and range as well as the utility of its aquatic only units.

2. It doubles the mercs sea neighbors thereby giving a needed resource boost to the merc cap. And also extends their operating range.

3. It enables R'lyeh to reach the strategically valuable corner lakes via an aquatic only route, eventually, but at the same time ensures that R'lyeh would need to go through the merc cap to do so (and pay a suitable toll(s)).

4. The placement is evenly spaced, halfway between the center and corners but allows enough room for all to navigate around them, particularly the AI.

Again, I will provide these as an incentive to stick with the Usurper nations as originally planned including R'lyeh.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

Why not connect each one with the nearest corner lake and (maybe) not connect corners directly to the mercs cap?
Corners connected to the merc cap automatically mean the mercs will always suffer severe dominion problems unless they take something like 9-10 and that's not good IMO. In general, I like the idea of these small lakes.
And R'lyeh cap may be connected to the corner province this way

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI, Enlisting 16/17.
 

So just leave 4 connections with the merc cap near the center? And arrange em like the spokes of a wheel emanating from the merc? Like an giant X? Connecting only at the hub? Like this?

http://i44.tinypic.com/f3aog9.jpg

That works good as well. Maybe even better. The merc must have some access to all these locations though, as it facilitates carrying out its job and gives its units greater mobility.

The only downsides with your suggestion is R'lyeh would be limited a bit more, would need to purchase passage to get to 3/4's of them via direct sea route, rather than the 4 they would have unrestricted access to in the previous example, but if R'lyeh is not used, no problem then. If they were connected up any other way, R'lyeh would be be able to take the VP locations and pop up in your backyard. R'lyeh could also block the merc from access to one of the corners.

The merc would also not got the extra cap resource bonus.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

At this stage all starting positions have been filled. Alternate and advisor positions (if desired) are still available though. So if you are a noob, or intermediate level player, or a vet in the case of advisors, I welcome you. No noob will ever be allowed to be critized or belittled for lack of knowledge in any of my games. You have my guarantee on that going forward. If it happens please bring it to my attention.

The captains (of which I am one) are finishing up agreement on the the path rubric.

Chris, is apparently not going with R'lyeh, so Mictlan will be used as a substitute.

If people like the idea of those extra lake provinces soley for the benefit of the Merc, I will keep them in connecting them according to Ano's suggestion. Otherwise I won't bother with em.

We hope to be getting underway shortly, Gandalf must finish up creation of the AI, and I have a few changes to implement to the map. Gandalf has indicated he might want to use a few other units in the game as surpises either as pretenders or commanders since he is not necessarily limited that much. I have agreed, provided they meet the general Air/nature theme of AI team, they follow the path rubric, and they are not any of the other teams or factions pretenders.

Endgame diversity mod? For it, against it? Should we wait for the new version set to be released shortly?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

My calls are:
1) lake provinces - voted, yes
2) endgame diversity - yes (although it hampers our team), but definitely no waiting

What I ask for is some final or semi-final (if the final one is top-secret) edition of the .map file. Also, we could raffle the starting positions and distribute starting locations right now.

Thanks.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

Team starting locations (which colored location you start in) will not be known till the game actually starts and will be determined at random. It has been my experience that if these are released prior to starting, it will lead to haggling and bickering and jostling over which team is next to which team. This is a random map, so spacing and so forth is not completely and totally even over the entire map, but some standards have been implemented such as neighbors and so forth. And I do want some surprises in this game. The 4 magic locations will simarily be placed at random. Same applies.

Regarding .map file release, I could release another version with the VPs in, but it wouldn't make sense to put in starts for any nation other than Atlantis, since those will not be known till the game starts.

While we are waiting on the AI creation, and final adjustments, I encourage teams to disuss their starting arrangements (if different from default) who is in front, whose is in back, if not already done. And I also assume most of you have finalized who will be playing which nation on your team.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

Team Roster updated for Supplicants of Set and Children of Crom.

New forum pic for Usurpers:
http://i41.tinypic.com/35d6lut_th.jpg

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

I'm going to nix the extra lakes since R'lyeh is not in the game.

Captains have voted down the End Game Diversity Mod.

New path rubric has been agreed to and the NaVIITeams&Themes.pdf file has been finalized. I think the Great Seer of the Deep makes better sense as a rainbow for Atlantis than the Archmage, but I have added both.

Please consult for team path restrictions and pretender choices:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...9&d=1272642923

Have fun designing your pretenders!

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

We have to choose our nations first.

Is there any action in the outside forums that I've been missing?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

I've posted a couple in the forums Algae. Perfect timing.. I wanted to get my team to take a look at the forums and get active. We need to choose up nations.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

Map file has been updated, see link below and on main post. Some freshwater terrain masks (added along the underground water channels and around the all the lake provinces) and mountain terrain masks have been added. This version of the .map file includes VPs, and (as per Ano's request) #start commands for all human and AI starting locations. Replace with #specstarts for the locations you wish to test.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1272826954

Happy testing.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

I'm not following. Does this mean starting locations for the game have been fixed?

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

Does anyone know how I can get notifications e-mailed to me in the NaV forum (not this forum, the one for NaV)? I can subscribe to a thread easily enough but I haven't found anything like a 'notify me of comments in subscribed threads' button in my user control panel.

Re: Noobs and Vets II: Days of Infamy. MA, BI. 17/17. AI Creation Phase.
 

No.

The updated map archive contains the same old image file (slight rename thanks PYG for pointing out my typo). Recommend those with Linux, or Mac OS's rename the old image file to NaVII.rgb (uppercase V instead of lowercase v) or simply redownload the archive if you like.

Also included is another version of the .map file for those teams or players who wish to do some pre-game testing and/or try out various possible locations (the final version will not be released, till maybe after the game, maybe ;)). This new version includes VPs, and 21 #start commands. Simply open the new .map file, find the section for any colored team location you want to try out, replace with #specstart commands for your nations, in the arrangement you prefer and you are all set to test out. One or two minor tweaks to neighbors. Also includes the some freshwater and mountain terrain masks.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/attac...1&d=1272826954