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-   -   Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=46912)

Doo March 5th, 2011 02:11 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Your castle that is being sieged, there are more troops on their way to siege. I know because I'm trying to assassinate their leader ;)

endomorphious March 5th, 2011 09:57 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
New turn up. Thanks for the gold and especially those gems Doo. Can you use any Water gems or a few nature gems? Next turn I will be putting the smack down on Niefel in his southern fort. I don't have access to alot of summons yet, but will be finishing research on alt 8 this turn and can then focus on conjuration for some better summons.

I do have 3 wizards casting arouse hunger in my northernmost city. Have 40 corpses. I could use some feedback on how effective you guys think that spell is.

NTJedi March 5th, 2011 02:34 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by endomorphious (Post 772469)
I do have 3 wizards casting arouse hunger in my northernmost city. Have 40 corpses. I could use some feedback on how effective you guys think that spell is.

I would save those gems for other spells such as spirit mastery or summoning a bane lord to equip with items. I don't think arouse hunger is worth the price of gems.

Hrum March 6th, 2011 05:48 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
It is early summer in the 4th year of the ascension wars (Turn 39 is up).

Kailasa reports a great victory in the south! Niefelheim's southern capital has fallen.

An earlier attempt was repulsed when our sacred Yavana crushed all the inhabitants of the castle but were unable to put an end to a malevolent Collossal Head. A high powered death mage (d9!), and greatly resistant to magic attack (MR25), the most formidable things about this giant stone head were found to be it's hardness (prot 25) and it's solidness (HP 825). In this earlier fight our Yavana pounded on it for quite a length of time with little to show for their efforts, while the head ignored any attempts at magic coercion and cast death spells at our troops. All the while the defenders of the castle in the surrounding towers hurled down boulders on the Yavana, causing great losses on our side.

This time, the Yavana were again sent forward, blessed and many made ethereal as before, but also enchanted with the spell weapons of sharpness. Our researchers just uncovered the secret of this wondrous spell, and it proved to be the decisive factor. The collossal stone head has been reduced to gravel, and now decorates the pathways of a garden dedicated to peace and enlightenment. The fort is ours.

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/613...fyavana.th.jpg

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/945...thehead.th.jpg

---

Endomorphious, thanks for the water gems you sent a couple turns back! They were most appreciated.

Man those collossal heads make taking these forts a lot more challenging! In my case, he was also Niefelheim's prophet, so his HPs were through the roof. Weapons of Sharpness really made a huge difference; if you guys have some access to earth magic I highly recommend it. A handful of thugs equipped with AN or maybe twice as many with AP weapons could work as well.

I suppose a cloud-load of lightning could do the trick too, since it is AN, but given the HP these things have you'll need a bunch of casters spamming to bring him down. One or two guys isn't going to do it. If you don't send enough casters they'll fatigue out before they kill this guy.

endomorphious March 6th, 2011 07:09 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Well. Launching my attack on Niefels other capital. Wish me luck.

Doo March 7th, 2011 06:27 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Well done on the castle busting story, Tien Chi has a massive head too except its strong in Astral, it spammed I think Stellar Cascades and fatigued my army to its doom.

Sorry guys, I'll be another 24 hours from time of posting before I do my turn.

While you wait I suggest you read a couple of Order of the Stick's for amusement.

Doo March 8th, 2011 05:47 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
New turn is up...

Thanatus del Dragos March 8th, 2011 10:22 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I killed the God of Tien Chi! Fear the Irish crippled giants!

Hrum March 9th, 2011 05:54 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Turn 41 is up (as of last night, but I was slacking too much to post about it).

I probably should've submitted my next turn right away, but it was late and I needed to check on some stuff about how to equip my golem thug before I sent him out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatus del Dragos (Post 772758)
I killed the God of Tien Chi! Fear the Irish crippled giants!

Kailasa congratulates our Fomorian brothers in arms! Was the battle hard fought? How goes the war?

My current plan is to clean up my eastern flank a little before turning my attention to Atlantis. Abysia's southern lands may not be extensive, but I don't want him getting any ideas when I'm already distracted dealing with the fishmen.

The time for war beneath the waves approaches.

Thanatus del Dragos March 9th, 2011 06:03 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I crushed him and his feeble army!

My war with Atlantis will be a long one, starting on land. But Tien Chi is still much alive, so that still takes precedence.

Doo March 11th, 2011 06:49 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
New turn up. Sorry I have been slow of late with my turns, I'm now busy three nights out of the working week and I don't have the time or energy to get turns done. I'm also canning writing more updates, again I just don't have the time with other things on.

All is well with me, I have a narrow front to pursue Tien Chi on and am gearing up to trouble Atlantis. I think stealthy thug raiders should cause some harm :)

endomorphious March 12th, 2011 07:31 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Hijacking thread for off-topic. Anyone interested in pursuing a modified game that focus's on dominion and empires with dominion spreading effects. MA C'tis, LA R'Lyeh, LA Emror(sic), not sure of others that would fit the theme. No direct combat between players but dominion kills allowed. Workable theme?

NTJedi March 14th, 2011 12:57 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by endomorphious (Post 772962)
Hijacking thread for off-topic. Anyone interested in pursuing a modified game that focus's on dominion and empires with dominion spreading effects. MA C'tis, LA R'Lyeh, LA Emror(sic), not sure of others that would fit the theme. No direct combat between players but dominion kills allowed. Workable theme?

Possible risk for many turns of no battles.

I think you might better enjoy a map with victory point provinces where only the provinces with victory points can be attacked. Thus even the least experienced players could stay alive and assist the greatest threat. After player owns X amount of victory points they win.

Hrum March 14th, 2011 10:02 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Turn 43 is up.

Abysia expands in the south. Troops from Abysia's southern fort are expanding northwards - their furthest reach seems to be just shy of linking up with the northern Abysian lands. He's 1 province away from the bridge crossing that would link up to his northern lands (province 81).

Endomorphious, I witnessed that huge fight you had storming Niefelheim's capital. If that collossal stone head hadn't cast Hellpower you would've been the victor, rather than those horrors. I'm sure they won't stop you from claiming your prize this turn, but that must've been a bit frustrating. In any case, it looks like you've got your skellispam machine running pretty smoothly at this point.

endomorphious March 15th, 2011 07:25 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
New turn up.

Yeah, that darn head ruined my plans and forced the largest portion of my forces to retreat. Atlantis is besieging my most northern city and may take it this turn. I'm hopefully not splitting my forces foolishly and sending in my mages against the Colossal Blood 11 head (siggggh such a waste when he could be captured and used for our own gains)Spamming disintegrate with my sauromancers and shatter with my PoD. LOL I did immensely enjoy seeing the thronging horde of undead just flocking around that giant head.

endomorphious March 15th, 2011 07:27 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
NTjedi great suggestion. I like the idea of the victory points. Make it even more interesting by assigning the better magic sites there (could that be done randomly from say a predetermined list of 10?). Make people eager to fight for them. Anyone bored and want to compile said game? :}

Thanatus del Dragos March 15th, 2011 02:41 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
You killed the Frost Giants! Congrats!

My war with the Tien Chi Goes well, but I fear the collosal head shall defeat me in the north.

Atlantis is now at my doorstep, there will be war, and death, and my giants shall slay them and boil them and eat their froggy legs for dinner!

Doo March 16th, 2011 07:28 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I'm infiltrating the underwater provinces with stealthy thugs, its not going to stop armies but it will mean a diversion of resources.

NTJedi March 16th, 2011 07:46 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by endomorphious (Post 773103)
NTjedi great suggestion. I like the idea of the victory points. Make it even more interesting by assigning the better magic sites there (could that be done randomly from say a predetermined list of 10?). Make people eager to fight for them. Anyone bored and want to compile said game? :}

There's no method for having a predetermined list, but a great method does exist. Within the map editor it's possible to select one or more target provinces for having increased magic site frequency. Any province with victory points also provides increased dominion spread by game design according to Gandalf. If the victory points are needed to win as a victory condition this alone will be enough incentive for conquering the locations even with no magic sites and zero population.
Once we know how many confirmed players will exist on the map I can design the game map... with or without AI opponents.

Hrum March 17th, 2011 01:40 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Endomorphious, I think you really should make a new thread for this game idea. I have some thoughts on the matter (or questions, more like - ex. Does no attacking other players include no remote attack spells? What about assassinations? What about economy attacks and anonymous rituals? Since I presume there's no way to make the game forbid those, will this be on the honor system? Or, I suppose you could make a mod that doesn't include the remote rituals you don't want people casting at each other...), but I don't want to fill this thread up with stuff that isn't relevant to Turbocharged.

---------

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatus del Dragos (Post 773118)
You killed the Frost Giants! Congrats!

Indeed - it was good work by C'Tis that made this possible. Kailasa may have been the one that dealt the final blow, but that's only due to a final gesture of defiance by Niefelheim - he cast Horde from Hell at one of Kailasa's provinces! He did this as C'Tis was putting an end to what would have been Niefelheim's last province! What a cheeky monkey was this frost giant ruler! If he'd used more blood magic like that he might still be causing us trouble. As it was, a Kailasa teleporting thug dropped in on the devil led imps and stomped them, retaking our province. The frost giants are no more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doo (Post 773209)
I'm infiltrating the underwater provinces with stealthy thugs, its not going to stop armies but it will mean a diversion of resources.

Nice!

Well, I thought I was running a bit ahead of everyone, but now it looks like I'm the one that's lagging on getting my fishy war on. Kailasa's armies are marching on Abysia in the south - those provinces should be taken in a few turns and then Operation Wet Monkey will commence.

Any word from Mauxe on how his eagle men fare in the fight with Abysia in the north?

Thanatus del Dragos March 17th, 2011 01:52 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I killed everything except the collossal head in Tien Chi's 210 site. Damn, that bastard is tough.

Doo March 17th, 2011 03:58 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrum (Post 773270)
Endomorphious, I think you really should make a new thread for this game idea..... .....but I don't want to fill this thread up with stuff that isn't relevant to Turbocharged.

I'll create a thread in the main forum page, the idea being that SP players don't look at the MP page.

I've been watching Mauxe fight a few battles against Abysia and it seems to me Mauxe is pushing them slowly back. After Mauxe broke the siege on his fort the war seems to have been fought over open ground, I believe Mauxe is soon to be sieging an Abysian fort soon.

Mauxe March 17th, 2011 06:17 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I should update more...sorry. Just so busy here.

I am slowly, slowly pushing south. I had a brief few turns where I was putting out teleport fires a bit. Now I am staring at a fortress with something big staring back... I think it is a colossal head but I don't recall exactly. It scares me though.
I have some good men in a province adjacent but I was working on a few items before I moved in. Still, I may be ready to bust through in the next turn....

endomorphious March 17th, 2011 07:52 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Hrum I'm hesitant to make a thread creating a new game since I haven't a clue as to how to host/modify/setup/run a MP game. I'm not even a very adept player. Seriously, seriously weak in making workable thugs/SC's for example. Formulating long term plans another major weakness.

However, I really would like to play another MP game and I think the original idea above would be fun and require people to bypass the typical massive bless rushes that I see mentioned all the time in mp forum.

I don't know enough about the various ages and empires to suggest ones that would be both theme appropriate and fun to play.

Concept: Mixed ages empires that feature strong dominion effects. (ie. MA C'tis, LA Ermor, LA R'yleh) I would appreciate input suggestions and reasons for other empires to be included. There would be NO physical combat between player empires, except for victory point provinces. Chicanery of every other sort allowed, and expected. (Bodyguards should get hazard pay!)Diplomacy encouraged. Magic sites set to high. Expect magical battles to keep those Globals active. SemiRand independents. Perhaps one single uber power AI central power to gang up on?(Or alternatively, an experienced vet running the AI central power, but he would not attack. He would play the political mastermind, the spider in the web if you will.

Hrum March 18th, 2011 04:20 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Endomorphious, I wasn't trying to be Mecha Thread Cop (well, maybe I was a little - damn my fascist tendencies!). If the other guys in this game don't mind you chatting in this thread about ideas for a new game I don't either, as long as it doesn't crowd out posts about Turbocharged.

And I wasn't suggesting that you start a thread announcing a new game - obviously you do that when you've settled on a concept / format / settings you like and have decided to run the game (which it sounds like you'd prefer someone else run it). For now, in order for you to get wider readership and more suggestions beyond just those of us keeping tabs on this thread (the players, Gandalf and NTJedi, 1 or 2 lurkers out there?) you might want to have a thread in the regular area to discuss game formats so that you can 1. Refine your idea for a format you'd like to play and 2. Gauge interest among all the Dom3 players on the Shrapnel forums instead of just your friendly neighborhood Turbocharged buddies. :)

For my part, I like it when people think of kooky stuff to do with game formats and stuff, so I'm happy to talk stuff over, but when it comes to actualy participation in a new game, I'm kinda swamped right now and I probably won't be able to handle joining another game. I'm already in two games (the other one is a regular MP game that's deep into late game), and my work load at my non-Dom3 day job has picked up a bunch recently (damn RL taking away from Dom3 time!). Things might be different for me in a couple of months, but for now my interest is more academic - I'm happy to try and poke holes in your ideas or suggest refinements, but if the game is starting any time soon I probably won't be joining - hence you should take my opinions with a grain salt. You probably should do that anyway. ;)

One thing I'm not clear on - were you thinking of a game with players as allies teamed up to fight against 1 or more AIs? Or an everyone for himself game that might include some AIs as well to spice things up? Or something else I'm not thinking of?

In your original idea you mentioned dominions affects (LA Ermor, etal), and you just repeated that - can I ask why you want a game composed solely (or primarily) of nations with those effects? In my experience (admittedly limited) those effects create additional tension in a game by making you want to attack the nation with that hateful dominion, or want to kill them even more than you want to kill all nations with their false dominions. All enemy dominion is naughty in the sight of <God_X> and deserves to snuff it, but dominion that kills your guys, or makes the weather unnaturally cold, or spreads disease or insanity is especially naughty. However, your original game concept was - a bunch of dominions that are super toxic to each other, and noone's allowed to do anything about it other than push dominion to win.

Dominion pushes are a valid victory method, but I can't see getting that jazzed about an entire game devoted to nothing but dom pushing. I've never been on either end of a dominion push victory, so I'm pretty far from being an expert on the topic, but as I understand it if you designed a game in which the only victory method was a dominion push, everyone would build their stuff the exact same way (dom10, best scales possible, pretender awake as soon as possible) and the only deciding factors would be does someone have cheap temples (or more expensive ones), or lots of H3s for preaching or whathaveyou. If you allowed a single blood sacrificing nation in that game, I think they would win hands down. If you allowed multiple blood sacrificing nations, everyone else would get squeezed out by them.

And meanwhile, the cool dominion effects you were into aren't really coming into play. Since everyone is pumping dominion like mad, and not allowed to attack in response to the enemy dominion push, only the guy that loses the dominion push is suffering the negative dominion effects, but only for as long as it takes the victor to completely snuff the weaker guy's dominion. The loser has no recourse - this could be a long, painful, not particularly interesting way to be defeated. This sounds more like a thought experiment to be explored by you in SP if you're really curious what it'll look like (maybe I'm wrong though - maybe there are a bunch of people that would want to play this).

I think NTJedi's idea about victory points makes the game much more interesting, in that now there's territory to fight over, so there's a victory method other than pure dom push. Now the painful dominion might be pushed into the contested VP provs by Nation A, while Nation B is the one who has actually conquered the VP provinces and stands to win if he can hold them long enough. Will Nation A's dominion make it harder for Nation B to hold those VPs?

Re: You can't attack players, but you're permitted to assassinate, does that mean you can mess with the other players in any way that has no chance of resulting in you taking one of their provinces? So, remote attacks with independent forces (eg. Send Horror) are OK, but remote attacks with forces that will claim the province for you (eg. Horde from Hell, Ghost Riders) are not OK? It may be hard to make those restrictions clear to all the players, especially if you're mainly courting newish players. You could make a mod that doesn't allow the spells you don't want - that might be the cleanest way.

Re: Assassinations, you realize that sneaky units (assassins) have a chance of being found? And once found by patrollers or PD, a buff enough sneaky unit has a chance of defeating crappy PD (low levels of monkey PD, for example). Since there's a chance that your assassin could take an enemy province, wouldn't this behavior (Assneakassination? Assneakination?) be disallowed?

Re: Vet as Central Power - this sounds like you want someone to GM a game for you (sort of - not quite). I take it this vet isn't allowed to play to win, he's just there to add challenge for the newb players? Ie. he's playing OppFor. That would probably be a lot of work for that player, running this game and making trouble for the players surrounding him, his goal not victory but spiteful resistance to the last. No hope of conquest himself, his only joy being the frustration of his opponents. You might throw him a bone - his one method of victory is dom push. Make him a blood nation and this becomes a really weird Newbs vs A Single Vet scenario. Most guys probably wouldn't be into that, but there could well be a vet out there who would love it. If you find that guy, he might be your game creator, admin, oppfor all in one. Call him Pantokrator - he's not there to kill the new pretenders to godhood, just to frustrate and annoy them to ensure that whoever knocks him off his throne truly deserves to be the new god of the world. It's kinda starting to sound like an entertaining newbie game format, but the entire thing hinges on who you find to play that central role of Game Admin / Veteran "AI" Puppetmaster / OppFor.

One other random thought - if you want to de-emphasize the bless rush, what about using the mod that turns off research, and starts all nations at level 6 research in all paths? It's a mod that takes you straight to mid-game fighting; you don't recruit mages for efficient research (there is none), you just make mages that can cast the spells you want (summons, battlemages, forgers, ritual casters, etc). Since bless nations tend to have the greatest advantage early, that mod might level the playing field a bit by starting the game off at a mid-game research level.

endomorphious March 19th, 2011 06:58 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hrum (Post 773373)
Endomorphious, I wasn't trying to be Mecha Thread Cop (well, maybe I was a little - damn my fascist tendencies!). If the other guys in this game don't mind you chatting in this thread about ideas for a new game I don't either, as long as it doesn't crowd out posts about Turbocharged

And I wasn't suggesting that you start a thread announcing a new game - obviously you do that when you've settled on a concept / format / settings you like and have decided to run the game (which it sounds like you'd prefer someone else run it). For now, in order for you to get wider readership and more suggestions beyond just those of us keeping tabs on this thread (the players, Gandalf and NTJedi, 1 or 2 lurkers out there?) you might want to have a thread in the regular area to discuss game formats so that you can 1. Refine your idea for a format you'd like to play and 2. Gauge interest among all the Dom3 players on the Shrapnel forums instead of just your friendly neighborhood Turbocharged buddies. :)

For my part, I like it when people think of kooky stuff to do with game formats and stuff, so I'm happy to talk stuff over, but when it comes to actualy participation in a new game, I'm kinda swamped right now and I probably won't be able to handle joining another game. I'm already in two games (the other one is a regular MP game that's deep into late game), and my work load at my non-Dom3 day job has picked up a bunch recently (damn RL taking away from Dom3 time!). Things might be different for me in a couple of months, but for now my interest is more academic - I'm happy to try and poke holes in your ideas or suggest refinements, but if the game is starting any time soon I probably won't be joining - hence you should take my opinions with a grain salt. You probably should do that anyway. ;)

One thing I'm not clear on - were you thinking of a game with players as allies teamed up to fight against 1 or more AIs? Or an everyone for himself game that might include some AIs as well to spice things up? Or something else I'm not thinking of?

In your original idea you mentioned dominions affects (LA Ermor, etal), and you just repeated that - can I ask why you want a game composed solely (or primarily) of nations with those effects? In my experience (admittedly limited) those effects create additional tension in a game by making you want to attack the nation with that hateful dominion, or want to kill them even more than you want to kill all nations with their false dominions. All enemy dominion is naughty in the sight of <God_X> and deserves to snuff it, but dominion that kills your guys, or makes the weather unnaturally cold, or spreads disease or insanity is especially naughty. However, your original game concept was - a bunch of dominions that are super toxic to each other, and noone's allowed to do anything about it other than push dominion to win.

Dominion pushes are a valid victory method, but I can't see getting that jazzed about an entire game devoted to nothing but dom pushing. I've never been on either end of a dominion push victory, so I'm pretty far from being an expert on the topic, but as I understand it if you designed a game in which the only victory method was a dominion push, everyone would build their stuff the exact same way (dom10, best scales possible, pretender awake as soon as possible) and the only deciding factors would be does someone have cheap temples (or more expensive ones), or lots of H3s for preaching or whathaveyou. If you allowed a single blood sacrificing nation in that game, I think they would win hands down. If you allowed multiple blood sacrificing nations, everyone else would get squeezed out by them.

And meanwhile, the cool dominion effects you were into aren't really coming into play. Since everyone is pumping dominion like mad, and not allowed to attack in response to the enemy dominion push, only the guy that loses the dominion push is suffering the negative dominion effects, but only for as long as it takes the victor to completely snuff the weaker guy's dominion. The loser has no recourse - this could be a long, painful, not particularly interesting way to be defeated. This sounds more like a thought experiment to be explored by you in SP if you're really curious what it'll look like (maybe I'm wrong though - maybe there are a bunch of people that would want to play this).

I think NTJedi's idea about victory points makes the game much more interesting, in that now there's territory to fight over, so there's a victory method other than pure dom push. Now the painful dominion might be pushed into the contested VP provs by Nation A, while Nation B is the one who has actually conquered the VP provinces and stands to win if he can hold them long enough. Will Nation A's dominion make it harder for Nation B to hold those VPs?

Re: You can't attack players, but you're permitted to assassinate, does that mean you can mess with the other players in any way that has no chance of resulting in you taking one of their provinces? So, remote attacks with independent forces (eg. Send Horror) are OK, but remote attacks with forces that will claim the province for you (eg. Horde from Hell, Ghost Riders) are not OK? It may be hard to make those restrictions clear to all the players, especially if you're mainly courting newish players. You could make a mod that doesn't allow the spells you don't want - that might be the cleanest way.

Re: Assassinations, you realize that sneaky units (assassins) have a chance of being found? And once found by patrollers or PD, a buff enough sneaky unit has a chance of defeating crappy PD (low levels of monkey PD, for example). Since there's a chance that your assassin could take an enemy province, wouldn't this behavior (Assneakassination? Assneakination?) be disallowed?

Re: Vet as Central Power - this sounds like you want someone to GM a game for you (sort of - not quite). I take it this vet isn't allowed to play to win, he's just there to add challenge for the newb players? Ie. he's playing OppFor. That would probably be a lot of work for that player, running this game and making trouble for the players surrounding him, his goal not victory but spiteful resistance to the last. No hope of conquest himself, his only joy being the frustration of his opponents. You might throw him a bone - his one method of victory is dom push. Make him a blood nation and this becomes a really weird Newbs vs A Single Vet scenario. Most guys probably wouldn't be into that, but there could well be a vet out there who would love it. If you find that guy, he might be your game creator, admin, oppfor all in one. Call him Pantokrator - he's not there to kill the new pretenders to godhood, just to frustrate and annoy them to ensure that whoever knocks him off his throne truly deserves to be the new god of the world. It's kinda starting to sound like an entertaining newbie game format, but the entire thing hinges on who you find to play that central role of Game Admin / Veteran "AI" Puppetmaster / OppFor.

One other random thought - if you want to de-emphasize the bless rush, what about using the mod that turns off research, and starts all nations at level 6 research in all paths? It's a mod that takes you straight to mid-game fighting; you don't recruit mages for efficient research (there is none), you just make mages that can cast the spells you want (summons, battlemages, forgers, ritual casters, etc). Since bless nations tend to have the greatest advantage early, that mod might level the playing field a bit by starting the game off at a mid-game research level.

Responses are in response to each paragraph in order.

Perish the thought Hrum. Never took a negative connotation from your comments yet.

I am tossing it out into this group of folks for a kind of feasibility study. After all we obviously don't mind odd setups with the turbocharged concept. I did toss out the idea once already with a post. However, it was not fleshed out and got zero,zip,zilch interest. If I can flesh it out some more at least initially with your guys help I may generate a bit more interest.

I don't see critical mass generating on this game starting anytime soon.

The game as I'm conceptualizing it is each player for himself, a few independents toughened as in this game, and possibly the toughened central Power.

I was playing an MA_Ctis game in SP because I just love their gold production bonus under high dominion and was sick of playing games where I was a broke joke. Then I began to read up on strategies and saw that MA_Ctis and the other dominion effect empires are much hated in MP. So the concept of creating a game where they could get a chance to bring their dominion effects into play without worrying about mad blessed giant rushes occured to me.

Don't have any experience on dominion pushes it was just a brainstorming idea to further maximize a strategy that doesnt seem to get much of a fair shot in MP. I can take it or leave it in the game creation. But, I would like other more experienced players to weigh in on how dominion push victories would work/play out in such a game. You maybe correct on the blood nations. LA_Ermor maybe the only exception and only as the large Central power.

I'd attempt this in SP mode with all AI's just to see it in action but I haven't the foggiest clue on how to mod things. I barely comprehend the game as created.

I also really like NTJedi's idea of victory points. I'd further make those locations even more enticing by somehow bulking them up. Either, key choke points, gold bonus, or max magic site frequency, perhaps if possible modifying cost/resource of useful units. 1gp/1rp crossbowmen? Or, is that just a programming nightmare for the poor sap whos gonna actually craft this game.

I've conceptualized this game in my mind as a kind of real life political struggle amongst loosely allied conquered nations of LA_Ermor. They see the path that Ermor is going down and want to break free of that certain death sentence. The only ones who are making a fair attempt are those with strong dominion effects of their own. But, as in real life political allies don't necessarily mean best buds. No overt physical troop attacks. Magic and assassination is fair game even if it nets you an enemy territory. I'd keep research the same so that globals would become necessary and coveted. With high magic resources I expect to see ALOT of spell spam and dueling globals.
On that note should wish be banned, do you think?

Your summation of the Pantokrator is exactly what I was thinking, if not so elegantly laid out. Perhaps a puppetmaster victory condition that if no one holds X number of victory points say by turn 101 then he wins. This would give a master manipulator the chance to meddle with others for the sheer fun of it, AND help him achieve his victory condition. He sees Kingdom A is gonna fall soon if something doesnt change so he sends Kingdom A 100 gems 10k gold...bam kingdom a is kicking Kingdom B and C's butt.
Perhaps give the Pantokrator two of the assassin capable heroes if there is a mod that does that.

endomorphious March 20th, 2011 04:02 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
New turn up.

Mauxe March 24th, 2011 11:01 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I am doing a little dance down here trying to get myself geared up to take on this giant head. Once I can take this fortress I hope to have a much better foothold on Abysia's lands....

Doo March 26th, 2011 03:17 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
My attempt at attacking some underwater provinces was terribly poor...

On the up side Atlantis knows I want war so it might shift some focus onto me :)

Next turn up.

endomorphious March 26th, 2011 06:35 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Ok update I am sieging two atlantis forts on my northern most border. I may take one next turn. But he has his entire sea area to recruit defenders/attackers from so Im in for a vicious struggle if i don't pull out some fancy tricks soon. I'm so severly hampered by gold. Really, really underestimated that variable from my SP experience. One strong force from him would ruin my day as he ransacked my weak undefended provinces. My death gem income is also very sadly lacking in comparison to my other games as is my expansion. Ahh well it is at least more fun :}

I am trading water and fire gems at 3:1 for death gems if anyone has spares. I now have leviathan and I plan on spamming it along with construction of fear inducing magic items to pillage undefended water provinces. Depending how those trades go, if anyone is in the position to cast a counter to Atlantis maelstrom i can/will donate up to a 100 gems to it. I really don't want them with that benefit for too long.

anyone who can make wall shaker or other seige bonus items? I can trade earth boots, dwarven hammers, or crystal coins.

Thanatus del Dragos March 26th, 2011 07:32 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I think I am about to kill Tien Chi, I believe.

Mauxe March 26th, 2011 09:49 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Nice. I will be storming the fort in 2 turns with a good enough force I believe.
Has everyone else dropped off.. been quiet here..

Doo March 26th, 2011 09:14 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
endomorphious, I'll shoot you through some gold and item soon.

Hrum March 28th, 2011 08:20 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Turn 51 is up.

Nice work on TC guys!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mauxe (Post 774087)
Nice. I will be storming the fort in 2 turns with a good enough force I believe.
Has everyone else dropped off.. been quiet here..

I think we're all still here. In my case, I've been somewhat overwhelmed by work and other RL stuff.

Glad to hear that your war with Abysia has been going well! Let me know if you need me to drop a teleporting thug in somewhere for you, but it sounds like it probably isn't necessary.

Abysia is a punk and deserves to be stomped under foot. He keeps casting Imprint Souls on my backfield. I guess that's his revenge for my taking all his stuff in the south. BTW, he completely bloodhunted his southern fort into uselessness. Assuming that all of the AI starting forts were set up like capitals (~30k pop), he really did some work on this one to take it down to 10% of it's starting population.

BTW Mauxe, I've been intentionally trying to leave you a corridor of indie provinces leading to the coast. If Atlantis comes stomping up on land here Doo or I may need to bash him, but other than that my intention is to make sure you have a path to the water for the final conflict under the waves.

Quote:

Originally Posted by endomorphious (Post 774072)
I am trading water and fire gems at 3:1 for death gems if anyone has spares. I now have leviathan and I plan on spamming it along with construction of fear inducing magic items to pillage undefended water provinces. Depending how those trades go, if anyone is in the position to cast a counter to Atlantis maelstrom i can/will donate up to a 100 gems to it. I really don't want them with that benefit for too long.

Your good friend Kailasa asks that you not try to counter/dispell his global spell Maestrom. :)

If you're not sure who has a particular global up, you can always click "Magic:Global Enchantments" (or just hit F6) to see the list of globals that are up, with the flag of the player who cast each. The friendly yellow flag is the flag of your friend Fejara, peaceful oracle of truth, ruler of the monkeys. :)

Yes, I just cast Mother Oak as well. Gems are shiny and make monkeys happy.

In other news, I like water gems. I feel it would be highway robbery if I were to except 3 water gems from your for every death gem I send - I would be embarassed and ashamed to take advantage of you that way. But I do love water gems, so I'm more than willing to trade with you (1 for 1 is fine with me). I'm not heavily overburdened in death gems, but I can send you some.

And sorry I haven't kept up with the gold - I'll send you some more of that too.

Quote:

anyone who can make wall shaker or other seige bonus items? I can trade earth boots, dwarven hammers, or crystal coins.
Doo mentioned sending you stuff a turn or 2 ago - are you all set on siege items now? I'm forging a gate cleaver in case you need more of 'em, just let me know. As above I'm happy to receive water gems in exchange for pretty much whatever. :)

Endomorphious, as I said to Mauxe above, if you want me to I could drop a teleporting thug in on an Atlantis province for you. My thug is not currently amphibious (I need to fix that!), but I'm gonna be retrofitting him for water operations soon. So, for the next turn or two this offer only applies to dry land provinces. My golem is a size 5 trampler, so he works best against hordes of crappy human size stuff - good for raiding PD and whatnot.

In other news, I'm sparking things off with Atlantis this turn. He conquered the southern indie water provinces, which means he now borders my entire coastline. Kailasa will not stand for this! Err, hopefully I won't. We'll see if I sent enough troops. :D

endomorphious March 29th, 2011 10:14 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Turn 52 up. Thank you all for your help especially you Tir na Nog and you Kailas. Major major help. This will help me significantly in the short run against atlantis. Which should at least let me situate myself to become a big pain in the tookus for atlantis. My plan is Darkness, teams of 5 leviathans, support lizardmen to spam body ethereal, and some skelly spam peons, as well as a few amphib commanders carrying fear spam items. I will hopefully be casting well of misery next turn thanks to the gems i was given in trade. Income is slowly starting to inch up. Can anyone make alchemy stones? I would like to trade for one. I have an alchemist site and with the alchemy stone the pain of alchemy wont be to to bad. Im sure Im missing something important so just shoot me a mssg.

Thanatus del Dragos April 4th, 2011 09:20 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I'm attacking the indie province with a ton of pretenders and demons, I'm sure to get my butt kicked, but thought it would be fun as my northern army is far from the fight anyway now with TC gone.

Thanatus del Dragos April 5th, 2011 11:30 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Got my butt totally kicked, that province has the entire pantheon of Norse gods with a demon army, they are some tough buggers...

Hrum April 5th, 2011 11:16 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatus del Dragos (Post 775031)
Got my butt totally kicked, that province has the entire pantheon of Norse gods with a demon army, they are some tough buggers...

Pantheon of norse gods?! I take it that means a bunch of titans? Sounds rough. What kind of demons and how many?

I don't know that we heard how the final battle with TC went. If you don't mind telling the tale, how did you defeat him?

Thanatus del Dragos April 6th, 2011 02:36 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I crushed TC with superior numbers and a ton of lightning up his butt. It was fairly anti-climatic.

endomorphious April 6th, 2011 06:07 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Hi all,

Seems like everyone is doing a great job. If i owe anyone anything lease send me a message. My computer has gone wonky and waiting for new build from newegg.com. Until then I have to limp forward and may be delayed in my turns. The comp is horribly unstable.

Doo April 12th, 2011 05:35 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Hi all,

Been a while since I posted anything, thought I'd update on whats going on. Its all been pretty quiet, I sent a force of thugs under the sea and they got thumped. I'm now busy kicking the sea dwellers off my land and forging for a supported invasion.

If people want Barrels of Air forged, sent me the hammer cost in gems.

:)

Hrum April 17th, 2011 10:57 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Heads up: Only ~12 hours left before this turn cycles.

Does anyone have any spare fire gems that they would be willing to trade? I could use some (20? more?) and my production still isn't what I'd like it to be. In trade I can offer astral pearls, as well as water and nature gems at 1 for 1. In a pinch I could probably even scare up other types as well.

I gave my forces orders to take the following sea provinces from Atlantis this turn:

Angry Sea (83)
Sea of Saints (80)

I don't have any particular desire for or claim to those territories. I am seizing them from Atlantis solely to protect my flank from his attacks. If someone else wants either of those provinces, just say the word.

Endomorphious, I moved in to take Sertiwo Land (58), a fort held by Atlantis on the east side of the great north-south river of the southern continent. It occured to me after the fact that I should've given you a heads up about that, so that our forces don't collide if you had designs on that same province. You've had a longer and harder fight with Atlantis than I have, so I think that gives you the greater claim on any contested Atlantis territory on which you and I are descending. If you want that province (58) you are welcome to it, just let me know.

Kailasa can report good success in our battles with Atlantis thus far. Barrels of Air are a great boon, but so far we have gotten by supplying our Yaksha with Sea King's Goblets.

How does everyone else fare? How goes the war between C'Tis and Atlantis? Tir na n'Og? Atlantis loves doing coastal raids, doesn't he? I'm sending some sacred troops into his underwater lair to see how he likes it.

How goes Caelum's war with Abysia? Mauxe, let me know if you want me to drop a thug in on one of his provinces. With a turn's notice I should be able to kit a thug out for anti-Abysia operations if you need a hand, but it looks like Abysia is on the ropes.

Mauxe April 17th, 2011 11:04 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Should be on the ropes, yes.. but I need to get a better strat to take out his fort. I am wworking on an upgraded thug I guess.. my Bag Kings + Storm don't seem to do the trick.

Hrum April 22nd, 2011 11:02 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Per Gandalf's status page, 20 hours left on Turn 60.

http://game.dom3minions.com/bin/privategames.cgi

How are things going in the land of C'Tis?

BTW, guys, I'll be travelling out of town this weekend. I don't think it will affect my ability to get my turns in as I should have Internet and whatnot, but I wanted to give you a heads up.

Thanatus del Dragos April 22nd, 2011 11:13 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
I'm going to have a huge land war with Atlantis. They've got a lot of land near my capital. But, we Fomorians are Sea Gods! We will push them from the land and then slaughter them in the sea!

Hrum April 26th, 2011 07:28 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Turn 62 is up (as of 4 hours ago).

I hope noone staled on that last one - I noticed a couple people had yet to take their turns last night, but then RL grabbed me and wouldn't let go so I didn't get a chance to post a reminder here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanatus del Dragos (Post 776054)
I'm going to have a huge land war with Atlantis. They've got a lot of land near my capital. But, we Fomorians are Sea Gods! We will push them from the land and then slaughter them in the sea!

Fishmen! It's what's for dinner! :)

In other news, Atlantis overcast Mother Oak on me! How dare he?!

If noone else has anything to say about it, I am happy enough to take it back from him, but it occurs to me (having had 4/5 globals up for a while now) that maybe someone else wants to overcast Mother Oak, or put up an entirely different global..?

So, basically, Kailasa asks that her allies let her know if they intend to contest Atlantis' possession of that global slot so that we do not waste gems contesting each other rather than our shared enemy: The Fishmen!

If one of you wants to replace Mother Oak with something, or take it away from Atlantis, that would be great. Kailasa will even offer her assistance in dispelling Mother Oak for one of you, if that would help..?

But if you guys don't have any designs on that global spot Kailasa is more than happy to overcast Mother Oak if for no other reason than to deny Atlantis those gems.

Hrum April 29th, 2011 03:37 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Hey guys, sorry for running behind on getting my turn in. I noticed that Dom3minions reset the the turn timer last night, and since I got home really late I didn't do my turn. I'll get it in tonight as soon as I get home from work.

Doo April 30th, 2011 01:34 AM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Hows everyone going?

All pretty quiet in the lands of Tir na n'Og, summoning Tartarians and forging items...

We must be getting near the end, I'm seeing monkeys swimming in the water.

Hrum April 30th, 2011 02:45 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doo (Post 776458)
We must be getting near the end, I'm seeing monkeys swimming in the water.

It's hard to fling poo underwater, and the results... are not good.

You got your Tart summoning up! Nice!

Things in the land of Kailasa are going apace. As TNN has observed, we have made forays into the water and are basically holding a defensive line since we don't want to push too far beyond our share of underwater territory. There was a time when there was plenty of Atlantis for all, but fishmen are becoming scarce and those interested should get some while the catch is still plentiful.

In other news, we are concerned about our neighbor C'Tis. Our scouts inform us that his offensive has ground to a halt, and his defense recently hasn't been what it once was (some of his forts are in peril from Atlantis armies, and the defenders dwindle with no friendly relief armies in sight). It was known that he experienced gold shortages, perhaps that is the reason?

More alarming still is that no new messages have been received from his C'Tis in many months.

--

BTW, I checked Endo's stats on the forums here and he hasn't been on the forums since 4/7. His last post mentions computer problems. Has anyone heard from him?

I'm worried that he might be staling (any way to verify on Dom3minions?) due to computer issues or something. It would be good if he could give us a heads up on how things are going with that.

Doo April 30th, 2011 08:41 PM

Re: Turbocharged AI vs Humanities Last Hope - Running
 
Endo did indeed stale this turn. He has staled the last three turns and maybe some before that.

Gentlemen, I suspect he is out of the game... I've been sending him cash too... :)


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