Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

In the usual glorious manner of Illwinter, the answer becomes "its different for each nation".
They are all nicely unique. Some have to worry about takeovers and sneak-ins more than others.

the Baron nation is able to create PD in towns and cities

the Witch, and the Druid, claim forests and swamps. So anyone entering them takes off the ownership. It makes it hard to sneak up on them

Troll King takes the Ancient Forests. His Mum and witch doctors can change those, and normal forests, into troll forests which generate carrion creatures. So they have a wandering PD

Bakemono generates continual new troops at mountain mines. Also the Dwarfs do if they have turned it into a colony by placing a Dwarf Queen there.

High Cultist (Chulhu/Rlyeh) creates spawned aquatic hybrids and insane peasants automatically at any seaside town or port they take

There are others but you get the idea. The ones that do not have some sort of spawned help tend to have lots of cheap commanders and cheap troops to do patrolling with. Some also have better abilities to see what is going on

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The management of wandering independents is basically done so that you need to recruit cheap commanders like captains or goblin chieftains or similar, give them some troops (10 spearmen/swordsmen and 5-10 archers) and put them on snake patrol to kill anything that wanders around.

As for why any wandering stack is generally "snakes", is because they often are (swamps can randomly spawn snakes and serpents sometimes) and because the wandering stacks sneak up on you and snake all the stuff you spent so much time and blood (and consequently treasure, troops don't come cheap) conquering.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Huh, so you can set units to automatically patrol areas? Or do you mean manually patrolling?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Manually. Just station a patrol stack somewhere close enough to react to nearby important places like mines and such. There's no automatic patrolling.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes the "patrolling" I do is just to make sure that in each large area I at least have one commander and some troops barracked to be able to move if something takes one of my sites.

I can place the commander on "sentry" so that it is not in the "n" key rotation of active commanders. Or if the game has gone on awhile and its a large map I might leave some unsentried so the n key will at least jump there so I can see what is going on in that area.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Is there a msg for resources taken by indies?

Is there a kingdom mgmt screen?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There is the F1 screen like Dom3 has.
Also like Dom3 you dont get reports on losses unless you leave at least one unit there to give you a battle report.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Errr, why don't you guys stop asking questions and just wait & see how it is when it comes out? When you were all kids, did you cross-examine Santa/parents about every little detail of whatever present you were going to get?
:)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

However, you do get a visual indicator of a colored bar (same as your player color) over the structure somebody took from you on the turn it was taken, but those are easy to miss, especially once you get a larger territory on a big map.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I'd like a simple system to draw my attention when something I own has been taken.

A message that simply says "We have lost 2 forests, 1 village and 1 farm this turn". Then on the map you could press a key and it will "ping" those locations.

On that note, how functional is the map when zoomed out? At max zoom out are locations and location ownership clearly visible?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

It is clearly visible on my machine. Its also very clear because of "fog of war".
Places you (or your ally) have not explored or scyed yet are black.
Places you have explored but have no one there now, are dim and terrain only is visible.
Places you own, and a certain area around it (depending on type) are brightly lit up. And you can see other armies there. This is true even if you dont have a unit parked there.

So with abit of attention you CAN see enemy army activities in your zone. And the maps are not incredibly huge like Dom3. (not yet anyway but Im pushing on it) :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

On any given turn you could lose upwards of 15 or 20 forests if you can flag them (like e.g. Druid and Witch can), so that idea loses its appeal really fast. The constant messages would become really aggravating in short order.

At max zoom you can see ownership of squares just fine (at least for the brighter or stronger colors like red, yellow, white etc), even though the only recognizable things are the general terrain features and some of the more distinctive structures (e.g. city). However, you won't even need max zoom and if you just zoom out at the beginning of a turn, you should be able to see if any of your holdings have a fat line across them.

The darker colors like blue have a little bit harder at max zoom, but you really don't need it that far out.

Playing on max zoom all the time is practically impossible.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

As a matter of fact I STILL cross-examine Santa/parents about every little detail of whatever present I'm going to get.

Also, we're asking questions because we're excited. Some of the answers we hear might serve to allow us the opportunity to make suggestions.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I dont mind answering the questions. As long as they are in the mood of curiosity. There wouldnt be much discussion without them. And it does spark some suggestions.

On the previous subject. I forgot that losses of any type are marked by a solid bar thru them of your color

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Cheers for answering the questions Edi and Gandalf.

I am pretty keen on this game but have been burnt on games I was pretty keen on in the past. Its good to have questions answered.

CoE2 had magic items, not made by the player but occasionally you would come across them. Anything like this in CoE3?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Yes, there are several dozen different magic items, some of which can be very powerful. Most of them give minor benefits, but some of the powerful stuff in the right hands can be quite a game changer, especially if you luck out early on.

Old friends from Dominions include Monolith Armor and Aseftik's Armor, Serpent Kryss, Demon Whip and Frost and Fire Brands among others.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The video seems to be down. I have been trying to watch it for 2 days, but its not streaming at all.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

It's streaming just fine. You actually have to press the play button at the lower left corner of the video to start it up. And make sure your flash player is up to date.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Hopefully the land AI opponents are smart enough to attack water provinces in Conquest of Elysium 3, because in Dominions_2 and especially in Dominions_3 most of the AI opponents had critical problems with attacking water provinces.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

In CoE3 there are no provinces, there are squares. In water squares, there is nothing. No underwater forts, no resources or anything else so far. So water can be safely ignored unless somebody uses amphibian units to sneak attack from the sea. Not a great concern most of the time.

Hiding out in the ocean is also not going to do anyone any good, since as soon as they lose all forts, they are eliminated.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

From the progress page:

Does having a Mac version means that it is officialy feature complete and there is only some balancing and debugging to do before the release (I don't know if Illwinter have something like "going gold" for their games) ?

Hum, if only it could be made available on android too ...

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I would suspect it just means he dug up a mac tester.

There will be a netbook version. But a phone version of ANY Illwinter game could be the end of our economy. Enough people get fired for playing Illwinter games at work now. :)

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

We actually have two of those now.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

A netbook version ? Thanks for the informationn but I wonder why a separate version would be needed for netbooks ?

I would expect that playing on a netbook would only need at best some low-resolution settings and maybe lowering a few other graphic settings like it did for dom 3.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

So, the game doesn't have a text chat? I really think you should add that if possible because it's a pretty important feature for multiplayer gamers.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

AFAIK there is no separate netbook version. CoE3 has been designed as a netbook version, which is why some UI solutions are what they are. It does have the option to use lower resolution settings, but the detail level is not handled the same way as it was in Dom3 (grass etc).

As far as coding a text chat into the game, why? It comes down to the distribution of resources, in this case meaning the distribution of time Johan has available to spend on the game. IRC or similar is a quite adequate way to communicate with other players in an MP game and that way the time that would otherwise be needed for the text chat can be used to do some other features instead.

It's a case of prioritization and given the scarcity of resources, at least for me a built in text chat is very low priority.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

While I do not know how exaclty tcp/ip in CoE3 works, in Dom3 you do your turn technically in offline mode and send it to the server when finished and then wait in lobby for others to do their turns etc.

Implementing a text chat for the lobby should be fairly trivial. I mean seriously, if you already have what dom3 tcp/ip has, adding text chat for that is not very hard. Anything that has the basic server-client architecture can do "Hey, client sends data with specific tag, let's send it to all clients!" without huge effort and I highly doubt the UI components would be that hard either.

That said a text chat in lobby only is pretty cumbersome and it's easier to use IRC or something else provided you use that stuff already anyway.

I do highly doubt it'd be that huge job to implement a game wide text chat either for when you are connected to a server, but unlike above that's totally a guess and depends highly on how stuff is implemented in the source code. That'd be a good thing in general even if I personally don't really give a crap due to using IRC anyway. Most people in dom3 community seem to communicate via forums and email though, so it would probably be a fairly useful feature for them seeing how CoE3 is supposedly a far faster pace game than Dom3.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

You know more about coding than I do, so I'll take your word for that chat thing, elmokki. For me it's not a priority, but I'll raise the issue with Johan.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I have strongly recommended it in the server discussions. Thats one of my main testing areas. So I am trying to get an impression of how an MP game would run, and how hosting would be done. IMHO the speed of play makes this more of an IRC game than Dom3 is (and even Dom3 does that a lot)

ON THE OTHER HAND I have always supported Illwinters stance that adding things which are already available by 3rd party programs is not good and fun use of our one programmer. Common requests like backup, restore, file cleanup, screenshots, video record, mp3 playing, alarms/timers to not overdo the playing, macros, editable keypress tables, winner ladders, spreadsheet calculators, in-game messaging, in-game chat, in-game voice, etc etc. I do make the request when I feel it will help the game, and we do get some of them. But if its not an easy add for Linux/Windows/Mac then I dont press the goodies.

But again, yes that is a good idea. And some simple chat window has been requested.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Why not have the same by-turn messaging Dom3 had? Sure it's ineffective when something has to be discussed and decided quickly, but sufficient for more basic communications.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I think in-game smoke signals should be implemented to communicate between players over short to middle distance, while a series of way stations used by AI controlled messenger characters could be used to communicate between allies. Professional heralds bearing gifts and tributes would probably be an effective method of conveying words between opposing players.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Word on the in-game chat is "Has been considered. Not likely in 1.0, possibly later in a patch but no promises".

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

And by the way, Johan prefers "Mumble" for in-game communication.
I can see where that would be a good fit

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I can guarantee you that when the game is released and people start playing multiplayer, the number one complaint will be "there's no text chat!". It's a pretty standard feature nowadays and people are used to having it.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

From a user interface perspective, a separate program is in some ways actually better because it won't be taking up screen real estate from the game UI. Which would be kind of a big thing here unless the text chat was put in the same space as the kingdom overview and those two were swappable. Which would still be an almighty pain in the arse. Otherwise it would have to be a slidedown or something else that you can get out of the way.

There are tradeoffs with any solution you can think of here. We'll see what Illwinter does, since the issue has been taken up with them.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No offense but I hear that a lot. About many things.
I actually think screenshot is the #1 I hear. Then I think its reprogrammable menu keys. But Chat might be higher than usual for this game.

Im not sure that "standard feature" would do much. But the suggestion of re-using the Dom3 code might even though they tended to get more complaints than thankyous.
But I will mention that.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

"* Most of the music in place." yummy, can u disclose more details?- If it's a band/group I'll start listening to their material :)

Oh and congrats for hitting ver. 2.9. I guess no pre-order this time.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I can ask. But until another version pops all I have is the short place-holder songs that were used to iron out the code.

Personally I wish he had held off on the music. It makes the download much MUCH longer. I have at least 3 machines to update as quickly as possible each time a version pops

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

EDIT: Johan were you watching?
I had just posted this and I look back. New version. *sigh*
I will comment on the music in an hour or so

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Oh yes, obviously voice communications are even more fun, but people tend to not have microphones and/or tend to not like to speak to them (especially in their non-native languages). Also that stuff requires setting up a server so it isn't as low effot as IRC potentially is. Sad really. Listening/speaking is so much quicker to do while playing than reading/writing.

That said it seriously isn't expensive to rent a server. I pay about half an euro per month for my small Mumble server and anyone who regularily hosts games probably shouldn't have problems running a server from the host computer.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

The reason I say good fit is that its free. And it comes in Linux/Windows/Mac versions.

As for the server side... Ive run full ISP servers for about as long as Internet has been Internet. But the problem I have with Mumble is that I dont see an option to run it in text mode. I dont like bogging down my server with gui menus. On the other hand, Ive preached often that anyone can run a server. Any computer in the closet because it wont run the latest windows games can run free software and be more internet server than you and a 100 friends would ever use up. Unlimited email, unlimited webpage space, and running online worlds or games.
http://www.dom3minions.com/ServerInfo.htm

I do agree however that IRC is a better answer. I might consider running an IRC host on my server just for CoE3 altho I wouldnt have to since there are so many free IRC servers already available. I might even pick one and homestead a #CoE3 channel. And of course HERE the Chat button on these Shrapnel forums will still work for it without anyone having to download any software.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Very nice music. Very pretty and easy to listen to.
Mattias Westlund
http://MattiasWestlund.net
he did the music for Battle for Wesnoth

altho I think I might have the same problem that I had with Dom3. I will need to play my MP3 library to put me in a suitably aggressive mood.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

I notice the latest version says "removed debug information and debug console". Does that mean they are no longer testing for bugs and the game has essentially "gone gold"?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Good try. :)
Maybe, I dont think so. Up to now, the game displayed a lot of debugging information IN the game if you had the debug switch on. Unit numbers, Item info, etc. And the debug console allowed you to change things in the game in order to quickly check something out. So those in-game access to debug info have been removed.

However there is still a -d switch which allows access to a debug file much as Dom3 has in case anyone was wondering and uses that as much as I do.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

that made me 'lol'

I know this is slightly off topic, but with just about every gaming community I am/have been involved with I wonder about the mood music that people listen to. What music gets you in a suitably aggressive mood for Dominions/CoE?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

There are a couple of threads about it floating around here. I actually went and listened to many of the bands mentioned. Bought into a few of them.

Im VERY eclectic. All genres, all ages, many countries. And I can dance to just about anything from grandparents music to grandkids music.

For aggressive MP playing it has to be fast and hard. Good head-banger music. Basically my "Chores" playlist which is meant to keep me hopping.

On the other hand, in solo play I like to RPG nations with a druidical theme. My music for that can be much more tranquil and woodland.

I do have a hard Goth playlist also which does well for playing undead necromancy

Lets try and spark the interest of everyone....
For those who like to fiddle with files and maybe host some games, here is an example of a games score file. Unlike Dom3 which does it in HTML,. CoE3 does it as a CSV file. This should be more friendly toward inputting to a spreadsheet or database
http://www.dom3minions.com/~gandalf/scores.txt

Here is an example of the same games debug log
http://www.dom3minions.com/~gandalf/testgame.txt

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Release date is February 20th and the game is now available for preorder on Desura.

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

Good news.

Will there be a demo before officially release? and when?

Is it possible to purchase on steam?

Re: Conquest of Elysium 3 dev log
 

No idea on when we get a demo. No idea about Steam either, my post was going off the dev log.

The demo and distribution issues have not been discussed even in the beta testing venue in any detail since those are things where Illwinter is notoriously close-mouthed. I do expect that we will get some announcements before the release.

There are still some things to do. Quite a few of them my responsibility actually, since they are related to the manual and putting the finishing touches on it, but they are by no means the only ones.