Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Wise and charming words by the rulers of the T'ien Ch'i empire.
Perhaps we should discuss province distribution on the island between the involved four nations.
The nation of Man would much rather accept T'ien Ch'i as its neighbor, than Jotunheim, so perhaps we could come to a conclusion.


Why is it I always end up discussing peace with very reasonable neighbors, when this is a wargame that should essentially lead to last-man-standing-games? I mean, two gods sharing power is reasonable, but if we all agree on being satisfied with one fifth, one sixth or one seventh of the world, why should we start wars in the first place.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Which is what I mean. There was really no need to have LR against me, I have 1/4 random picks of Air 1...

To face me, he was perfectly decked out.

He was probably too naked when he started the fight, I had a good chance to kill him early. He lacked Reinvigoration, and had too much encumbrance due to Quickness. But you wisely went back to a lab and geared properly.

Gear in SC has to take in account the stage of the game. Early, a pendant of luck is often enough for most SC chasis (like yours) to crush everyone. You don't really need high MR in the first year, nobody has Soul Slay researched yet. Harald was (is) a damn good SC, and was more than capable to hold against Vestals and Principes, which was exactly what he was expected to.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

As Ermor and Ulm are heavily communicating atm I just want to bring to their attention that their turns are the only ones missing.
Just in case they did overlook.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I thought I sent it already... Must be some problem with the email, i'll resend it soon

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

I just resent my turn, but got no confirmation. I wonder if Llamaserver has some headache

EDIT: Got answer. It took a few minutes but it's ok. I wonder what happened with the turn the first time, though. Sent it this morning :/

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

and there we go, the doors of Ermor have been breached, I guess we have a nice AAR next turn :P

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

As part of the division deal between myself and Tien, He's getting all of the access to island provinces. I will not have a presence once the war has concluded and Tien can claim them.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Back in town, and with any luck next week is the last week of this job. I'll keep you guys posted.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

...

Well I guess all this discussion about how much of a badass Harald is is kinda moot now. Also, do the ghosts killed during nightmares count for things killed? Because that's kinda silly.


Stupid auto-rout...

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Ah, vengeance of the dead (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Vengeance_of_the_Dead). To quote the wiki:

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Yes, the ghost killed in dreams count for the spell as well. I find it kinda silly too, but that's how it works. We had a long thread about it a couple of years ago I think, and it was not a bug, it was the way it worked.

Harald was an awesome foe, but as I said, a little bit low in MR. He is strong, but vulnerable to Mind hunt+Soul Slay or Vengeance of the dead, specially when casted by a high level astral mage with penetration effects (as Beleren). However, there's no way to build a SC that is completelly undefeatable, all of them have some weakness, even if it's small. Otherwise the game would be a rush to find a SC, and nothing else would matter.

My original plan was killing him with Stellar Cascades spam. In my tests in Single Player against that exact SC, it worked 100% of the times. However, he moved away from my capitol, and Grand Thaumaturgs have map move 1 :(

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Wow.
The sphinx can't teleport? Is this a CBM change? :(
There goes my plan to instantly kill tien chi gift of heaven army of doom :(

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Wow.
The sphinx can't teleport? Is this a CBM change? :(
There goes my plan to instantly kill tien chi gift of heaven army of doom :(

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

No:

http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Sphinx

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Big building mistake then :/ Should had been an oracle or something.

What a mess :/

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

So the Ermorian Empire has shown, that it still has teeth.
This opens up better options for Us, than watching Ermor been eaten without being invited to the party.

As of now the nation of Man will support Ermor in its struggle for survival.
This means We hereby declare war on Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i.
Since T'ien Ch'i has been a rather good neighbor We will wait one month with open hostilities. After that period Our troops will march to the relieve of Ermor.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Unless you wish to be named a pact-breaker, you will observe our NAP-3 and refrain from invading for a full three months. Is your imperialistic fervor really so strong that all other concerns, such as past agreements, are forgotten? That is a pity; we had mistaken Man for an honorable and civilized nation but are now shown the folly of our trusting ways.

Furthermore, there is something perverse about nearly going to war several times over not getting to conquer enough of Ermor (despite showing up awfully late to the party, I might add) and then suddenly declaring yourself the grand protector of Ermor and riding out to their defense.

If you are going to war on two nations who have treated with you peaceably and done you the service of striking down your greatest rival, at least have the dignity to declare it as such. We, the masters of T'ien Ch'i, find your justifications flimsy and your rhetoric both craven and self-serving.


Man has long shown themselves to be an impatient and hostile people but it was our hope that that was merely the subsiding bloodlust from their slaughter of Marignon. We see now that they are a nation ruled by naked ambition. We entreat all other nations to join Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i in crushing this literally unholy alliance of the damned of Ermor and the unworthy of Man.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

So the nation of Man finds peace so intolerable that they now ally themselves with the corpse they had already planned to scavenge? This greatly amuses us.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

To the nations who are not currently the target of Man's ambition, make no mistake that Man will come for you the moment it is expedient for them. For several seasons Man has spent words entreating us to war on their enemies and turn on our allies. And in turn we have sent diplomatic messages by the score urging tit-for-tat for peace and patience. And through all of our dealings, MAN WAS AGREEING TO PEACE, THAT THEY WOULD CURB THEIR AMBITION AND ACCEPT T'IEN CH'I AS THEIR NEIGHBORS. In other words, for the last couple of turns they were offering us peace and suddenly this turn they call for our extermination.

...Let that sink in for a moment...

At best it means that Man is so fickle that their decisions mean nothing as they will change on a whim. At worst it means all diplomatic messages from Man are only so much noise sent to distract and mislead so the recipient is less prepared when Man inevitably betrays them.

Ermor's motive in all of this is both clear and reasonable. They were the premier power that has been brought low and now lives only to spite their successors. Ermor allies with Man not because Man is honorable and worthy of alliance, but for precisely the opposite reasons. Ermor knows it will not conquer or thrive ever again so it allies with a vile and unworthy force such as Man for the sheer expediency of punishing T'ien Ch'i and Jotunheim. For this, we do not blame Ermor; nihilism and spite are the only friends left to the mighty once they have fallen.

However, this... inexcusable and laughable farce of a casus belli that Man has invoked shows that Man does not listen to diplomacy. This is the moment when Man makes its nature and ambitions known. If you are a neighbor to Man, they will come to conquer you. If you are a neighbor to Man's neighbor, they will come to conquer you. Ulm will face an invasion by Man, Pythium will face an invasion by Man; it is only a matter of time. The only way to stop this is for everyone to resist Man and Ermor in whatever means are available to them.

If Ulm fails to rally to this cause, then they are condemning themselves to subjugation. Are the proud lords of steel really so short sighted, or are they merely afraid? If Pythium fails to rally to this cause, then they too shall follow Ulm into oblivion; their hydras slain and their theurges used for archery practice.

Those who will not go meekly to their graves, please PM the masters of T'ien Ch'i. United, we will be divvying up Man just as Man was divvying up Ermor not one turn ago.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

We do not remember such a formal agreement. Could you give us prove for its existence We would surely hold to it.
(I mean this. We did some diplomatic talking ingame, but I can't remember such a pact, and cannot look it up. Perhaps you could load an old turn, and make a screenshot.)

We agree, but helping Ermor was always Our first choice. We should have done so long ago. Better late than never.
At least We have the decency to declare formal war. An honor Ermor never received from both of you.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Do not pretend to understand the nature of Jotun diplomacy. We sent a formal declaration of war to Ermor. We tied it to a javelin and hurled it at their vestals during the 18th month. We cannot speak for Tien for obvious reasons, but given their fair and forthright dealings we are sure they acted with as much honor as Ermor was due.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Thats a plain lie.
We offered a solution on the island, which even included giving away a province that currently belongs to us. The giants told us, they had other ideas. But nobody further discussed that with us, nor was any agreement reached with us.
All Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i told Us was we are not ALLOWED to take provinces because they fought a war in the east. We could have taken the south of the island from Ermor a year ago, without anybody able to stop us. And now they FORBID it. And even Our generous offer is just put aside as if a child squibbles while the grown ups decide. Thats not the way the nation of Man expects to be treated.

And nobody calls for extermination. As soon as Ermor is save we may discuss the further proceedings.
It means We made a mistake by believing Ermor when it told it was dead.
We then tried to make the best of that situation, but We definitely like the solution with a living (more or less) Ermor better.
We guess the masters of Ulm and Pythium can think for themselves and don't need your aid in it. Don't you think everyone is as easily manipulated as your somewhat oversized friends.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Ultimately, for all your posturing and speeches, this whole diplomatic issue boils down to one thing. Ermor was attacked for being the tallest tree in the forest. With your victory over Marignon, and declaration of war against two war-weary nations, you will be in a position to rapidly conquer Tien, then finish cutting the throat of Ermor as you push into Jotunheim. If left completely unchecked by Pythium and Ulm, you will have the capitals necessary for total victory. Unless Ulm and Pythium plan to bend their knee to you now, standing completely idle will not be an option.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

There is another option than bending the knee.
As We mentioned before: sharing power in two or perhaps even three is viable.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

A year ago you, along with anyone else, were invited by T'ien Ch'i and Jotunheim to wage war on Ermor and take what spoils you could pry from their cold, undead hand. But you didn't so much as lift a finger even though you could do so "without anybody able to stop us". But after the skeleton of Ermor was lying broken and twitching, THEN you show up demanding a slice and seem confused that those of us with actual scars from the battle didn't fall over ourselves to oblige you. Your actions weren't at fault so much as your timing.

So... what? If we drop our sieges around Ermor's forts than you'll whistle a merry tune and walk away? Since Ermor is buried in the very bottom-right of the map, in-between the holdings of Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i, I'm unsure how exactly your liberation of Ermor is supposed to go without necessitating the wholesale slaughter of giants and humans alike. And even if we do walk away from Ermor's castles... what exactly is Ermor supposed to do other than immediately wage war on Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i. We find your terms confusing; would you care to elaborate?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Attached is the screenshot of a message sent by your envoy at the start of the second year (turn 24). If you check your records from the following month, you will find our acceptance of your NAP, your friendship and your support for T'ien Ch'i and Jotunheim's war against Ermor.

Reconciling the contents of that message with your recent declarations is... difficult.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

There will be no hostilities from Man towards T'ien Ch'i before month 36. We declare that the non aggression treaty ends by that month.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Interesting diplomatic talk.
We, the people of Ermor, want to say only one thing:

The capitol of Ermor is once again free. 60 worthy Tien Chi soldiers, and 6 of their commanders died in the process, as well as a single heroic ermorian soldier and 20 undead body remnants.

We hereby declare this, as the Independence Day. Long live to the Broken Empire.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Alright, job's done and we can go back to a shorter hosting schedule now. Thanks to all of you for your patience with this situation.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

OK, i am going to set the game to host in 48 hours.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Sorry for my late turn, crazy week.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

The people of Ulm, as the paragon of balance ,wants to announce that further grow in power from the nation of man at the expence of T'ien Ch'i it´s a threat to us all.

If the nation of Man only wants to help the return of Ermor the nation of Ulm will not interfere, but if the real intentions from Man is to conquer T'ien Ch'i Ulm will cancel the NAP that bound our nations.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

We greet our friends from Ulm.
And we do respect their wishes and concerns.
So the nation of Man declares the southern river as its eastern border in the south. Man will not claim ownership to any province currently in possession of T'ien Ch'i. Those agreements shall hold until otherwise agreed upon with the nation of Ulm.
However we are at war with T'ien Ch'i, and we will seize their provinces if possible. But we will leave these provinces the latest after the war is over. If it is possible for Ermor to take them, earlier.
Should the people of Ulm feel our agreements violated in the future, we ask them to communicate with us, before taking rash actions. We think everything can be settled.
Furthermore the nation of Man wishes to express that it's goal of this war is not primarily to destroy T'ien Ch'i. However our allies may have a different view to this topic.

All these agreements do not concern Jotun provinces, nor does Man restrict itself on the central island further than past agreements between Ulm and Man dictate.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

We're probably going to need a timer pause/extension for the thanksgiving holidays.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

yes please- starting wednesday night and returning monday morning.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

OK, i´ll extend the timer for thanksgiving. I´ll report it in here when it´s done.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Done

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Morla, your file is the last missing. Perhaps we can do another turn before weekend?

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

On my way.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Perfect.
Things are heating up a bit, even if Jotunheim does try to keep it cold.
It didn't help him :-)
Great battle in Ministra with a great result for Man.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

So, the diplomatic stances of the world have gotten a little confusing to those of us in T'ien Ch'i. As such we will simply throw this out there and let it have whatever impact it will make.

We are under attack. Last month we suffered unrest by bards; not an out-in-out attack but certainly annoying. However, this month we suffered assault in three of our eight provinces. Two were thugs slaughtering the local PD and the third was a full invasion force which is now besieging our castle at the Laerian Swamps (30).

Between the unrest and the lost provinces, we now have so little income that some of our forces are beginning to desert. This is all an expression of Man's ambition; we have long since made peace with Ermor and have never once attacked Man through force of arms, subterfuge or magic. Man has no justification for this war except to expand their already bloated empire. We will resist these aggressors to the bitter end but our time was waned.

We only hope the world learns from our demise and puts Man's empire to the torch.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Could Ermor please comment on this?
As to our last knowing Ermor and T'ien Ch'i are at war.
If that is no longer the case, it should have been made public.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Tien Chi and Ermor signed a truce, where Tien Chi retreated to their own borders, leting us to conquer the lands that were us. Tien Chi offered us to do so, so we could focus our war efforts against Jotunheim alone. The only other option we had was Tien Chi threat to do nothing but pillaging our lands, raising the taxes, and creating PD in our provinces, and not defending against Man.

We, the people of Ermor, found that it was of our best interest to sign that truce, given the options, becouse we wouldn't be able to fight against two oponents at the same time in our state.

As Tien Chi was pretty clear that only there were two options: one of them was very hurtful for us (pillaging our lands), and the other one was actually functional for our alliance with Man (with Ermor being able to attack Jotunheim), we found it to be the best course of action.

This change absolutelly nothing the terms of the alliance we made with Man, though. We offered our help against the rise of Jotunheim, in exchange for Man destruction of our long term enemies. That's what we signed, and that's what's happening. Your later offer, in this thread, to give us the lands of Tienchi once they are conquered was unexpected, and raised greatly our respect for our allies. We understand you did that becouse of Ulm's political preasure. We'll be willing to take those provinces, if that helps to placate Ulm vigilance on your global dominance, or not doing so, if it's not needed. It was not in the terms of our initial agreement, and thus, you are not bounded to fulfil that requirement (not bounded to us, at the very least. Whatever are your diplomatic treaties with Ulm are not of our matter, but we'll help you with it if conquering Tien Chi becomes a worry for Ulm)

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Lets sketch Our view of events:
We ended the NAP with TC.
We waited one turn longer than was necessary, so in the first turn after the NAP we only gathered troops at the border.
We let Our Bards loose the second turn after the NAP.
The third turn Our troops attacked three provinces.

Somewhen during those steps of escalation, T'ien Ch'i and Ermor agreed on a cease fire. T'ien Ch'i didn't tell Us.
So one can ask why? Did he just forget to relay this information, that could have prevented Our attack?
We don't think so.
We think the masters of T'ien Ch'i "forgot" it on purpose. They sacrificed their own provinces for one goal: manipulating others, especially Ulm, into a war against Man.
Now its Ulm's choice if they let their mighty nation be manipulated into a war against an old friend by the scheming manipulators of tiny T'ien Ch'i.
The nation of Man will stand to its words. We will fight this war against T'ien Ch'i and all provinces We take will go to Ermor.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Good fight, though I apparently need more work on my scripting. No idea why my entire sabbath decided that Desiccation was a better spell to cast than pretty much anything else.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

As usual Man's interpretation of events is wrong and self-serving. We kept quiet about our deal because Ermor asked us to keep a lid on it. If anyone is attempting to pull diplomatic shenanigans it's Ermor. We only piped up about it when Man seemed to tell the world that they'd leave us alone to keep Ulm from entering the fray, and then attacked us. Once it became clear that our days were numbered, keeping our silence about our peace with Ermor seemed less important.

We have only ever spoken well of Ermor; they have been a worthy opponent and their dealings with Man make sense as they were driven to the brink by two committed foes. We have only spoken poorly of Man and Man has yet to do a single thing to disprove our characterization of them.

The actual exchange between me and Ermor is included below:

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

Interesting diplomatic talk.

The nation of Ulm, declares the NAP-3 between Man-Ulm finished.

The intentions from man aren´t clear, and it seems Man is going for the win.

Man you have 3 months to stop your invasion of T'ien Ch'i, and let that T'ien Ch'i and Ermor fix their own situation. If not YOU and I will be enemies.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

The part of "no reference of this in the AAR" seems not to be binding for you...

I do not regret any of my acts. I want to see both Tien Chi and Jotunheim reanimated as ermorian legionaries. That is of no secret, i said so several times. I signed the NAP becouse I thought it was the best course of actions to see that goal fullfilled.

Re: Morla MA noob game (running)
 

T'ien Ch'i is not accusing Ermor of any malfeasance. Their various dealings with T'ien Ch'i and Man and so on have all made sense, have all been consistent given their position. For that matter, Man's aggressive behavior has all been copacetic with their position as leader of the pack, we just can't conscious their flimsy, flimsy justifications for their aggression.

Man jumped in "to defend Ermor" because they were big and their opponents were occupied. The fact that there are paragraphs of of Man rooting for Ermor's destruction (back when Ermor was big and Man was not) makes Man's continually restated casus belli so much hypocracy and hot air.

We of T'ien Ch'i have never condemned Ermor for their actions. Heck, we don't even condemn Man for their actions, we just can't stomach the rhetoric being used to justify it. Man, if you are going to invade Jotunheim and T'ien Ch'i because we are adjacent, pre-occupied and weaker than you, don't dress it up as some humanitarian effort to save the poor, beleaguered skeletons of Ermor.

We of T'ien Ch'i want our end to come openly and if our opponent can't or won't deign to engage in open discourse then we will have no compunctions in airing dirty laundry or condemning them through diplomatic channels. At this point, all we have are words, spite and a trio of forts (one of which is under siege).