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-   -   MP: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won! (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47899)

earcaraxe December 20th, 2011 05:22 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
:d :d

Anaconda December 22nd, 2011 03:17 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
I could use extension of some 6H

earcaraxe December 22nd, 2011 07:46 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
postponed by 12, to be sure.

Anaconda December 23rd, 2011 05:37 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
wat? new turns are in...

Numahr December 23rd, 2011 07:34 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
From staling data, it looks like Szivi also took a one-month holiday... Obviously every thing did not go as planned re. hosting

earcaraxe December 23rd, 2011 02:59 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
I have no idea what happened, i postponed it for sure. it took me by surprise too, as i have also staled.

earcaraxe December 23rd, 2011 05:02 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
because of the holidays i postponed hosting by 48 hrs and turned quickhost off.

Anaconda December 24th, 2011 07:42 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
awww my bad. I was driving with dim lights. I meant originally 12H, not 6H but even when you postponed 12H I still couldnt make it. I was stirring in my slumber. lulz I was too tired to think clearly after that work day.

Numahr December 27th, 2011 04:54 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by earcaraxe (Post 790742)
Jörmungandr!

I'm already back, wiser than ever.

Szivi

Are you, really?

Szivi, o Szivi the Invisible!
We urge you to come back at the head of the monkey folk.

Alternatively, if you have realized Jörmungandr was right and has Justice on His side, surrender peacefully and save lives.

Sang-i Setareh
in Behalf of Jörmungandr, God of Primordial Waters and Patron of Soldiers

earcaraxe December 27th, 2011 05:51 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
You are right!

Im hesitant to lead my people into bloodbath, so i surrender them. I have an invitation from Amaimon whom i met during my most recent interplane experiments.

Lets announce Jörmungadr the leader of these islands.

Szivi, the wise

Numahr December 27th, 2011 07:46 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game started, AR-s coming in.
 
Dear all Lords of Lesser but Respected Nations!

With Szivi's disappearance and his message of surrender received from afar, the Deep Council assesses that no standing power in this world can oppose Jörmungandr's claim to true Godhood.

Unambiguous messages of allegiance have also been received from the lords of Tien Chi and Ulm.

Nuhatussu! The time of ambiguity is over. Do you plea allegiance to our Lord Jörmungandr, as all others did? Refusal to do so at this late hour means you become a threat to the world's New Order and is equivalent to a declaration of war. Acceptance will grant you a seat at the Council of Minor Gods, next to Khorne and Li Xue. We expect a clear answer from you.

Khorne and Li Xue! Your allegiance has already been accepted. Jörmungandr will soon let you know your new responsibilities as members of the Council of Minor Gods.

Sang-i Setareh
in Behalf of Jörmungandr, God of Primordial Waters and Patron of Soldiers

earcaraxe December 28th, 2011 07:34 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Congratulations Numahr, u played awesome!

And I really enjoyed the role-playing writings, especially Anaconda's drawings!

Hylobius December 28th, 2011 08:27 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Sorry to hear that the game has ended so soon. I was looking forward to the end of game blood bath. Congratulations to Numahr on a fine win, and thanks to Ossa for the lessons learned.

pakoito December 28th, 2011 08:32 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
heehehehhe it's good to know. Expected result TBH, Agartha was the toughest enemy from beginning to end.

Anaconda December 28th, 2011 10:52 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
I wasnt really expeting this to end so soon but its ok.

I faced a strategic problem, didnt know the end game for my Machaka. All options available seemed more or less sub-par.

I am happy it ended like this, it would have been sad to see all that hard work cruble to dust :D

congratulations!

don_Pablo December 28th, 2011 11:47 PM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
MA Agartha winning a game??:shock:

Sounds exciting!!! :D
Congratulations!

Numahr December 29th, 2011 05:22 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Sang-i Setareh's last words are so recorded, before his substance merged with the Mountain itself:

All, praise your new lord as Jörmungandr, God of Primordial Waters, Lord of Agartha, is now the new Pantakrator!

As He prepares to ascend to true Godhood, it is time to assign their new roles to lesser Lords. In this Deep Hall exquisitely decorated by the best Agarthan craftsmen of 2 millenia ago, in the presence of the spirits of the Agarthan Kings of Old re-enchanted in the thousands of statues surrounding us, all the main protaganists of the Ascension War still alive are gathered. The Granite Throne you see here, after having long been a Kings' throne, is now a Godly Throne.

O Khorne!
You have been a faithful neighbor, and your martial prowess has allowed you keeping your mountains homeland against all odds. In recognition of this, you shall become the new Gatekeeper, entrusted with the security of Jörmungandr's 1001 private Palaces, Mountain Lakes and deeps, at the exception of Mountain peaks. As a lesser manifestation of the Divine, you shall respond to Jörmungandr Himself only in this domain. Come forth! You shall stand by Jörmungandr's right in the Hall of the Granite Throne.

O Li Xue!
What a nice display of pugnacity your nation showed. Wisdom you may have forsaken in your foolish war against Ulm, but bravery and creativity you have not. By your skillful counter-offensives, you have largely contributed to create a state of brutal but efficient Equilibrium in your never-ending war against Ulm. In recognition of your deeds and their beneficary consequences, and taking in consideration your mastery of the High Planes and of the Five Elements, you shall be entrusted with the more arcane responsibility of Holder of the Equilibrium. You shall estimate the deeds of Jörmungandr's subjects and advise Him on potential threats on the World's Harmony. As a lesser manifestation of the Divine, you shall respond to Jörmungandr Himself only in this domain. Come forth! You shall stand by Jörmungandr's left in the Hall of the Granite Throne.


O Nuhatussu!
Your case is different. You have fought skillfully against the "Ermorian abomination" (but was it such an abomination really? or were not their experiments in mastering Death itself, another legitimate path to the Divine?), but never did you plea allegiance to our Lord. You never answered our friendly invitations to kneel at Jörmungandr's power. Therefore you cannot be granted the status of Lesser Manifestation of the Divine. You have, however, deserved Jörmungandr's respect by the respect you showed to our oath of peace. Considering your wisdom and your special connection to the eight-legged, you shall become the Personal Secretary of the God of primordial Waters, Master Librarian, Keeper of the Archives. You shall engrave all our Lord's Holy Words. You shall keep the Marble Archives safe with your eight-legged legions, and record all future events and praises to our Lord according to Jörmungandr's will. Serve Him well. Come forth! You shall seat at His feet in the Hall of the Granite Throne.

And now rejoice, as the time of Ascension and a New Era has arrived. Here is Jörmungandr, in His Glory, the new Pantokrator!


[Non-roleplaying comments on the game soon...]

Numahr December 29th, 2011 07:08 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Double post, sorry

Numahr December 29th, 2011 07:11 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Honestly, this end (not the victory itself) took me by surprise too. But if Earcaraxe felt Bandar Log could not fight back at me, then I think he is right, we should rather move on to another game than spend hours on this one with no surprise concerning the conclusion.

Now let me rewind the scenario of this game from Agartha's perspective:


1. Origins: a long-sought revenge

I love MA Agartha thematically and I have played with them twice, two epic failures. Then they were my main opponent in my last game (the one with the AAR), allowing me to learn a lot on the nation's strengths and weaknesses as of CBM 1.8x. And then CBM bought in new changes, which I believed could make the nation very competitive at all phases of the game.

I had designed and tested at least 10 different pretenders for this nation during the last months, and I believed I had found the optimum according to my play-style. So I thought, let's be stubborn and make one more attempt! Let's finally show to the world what this nation is capable of!


2. Early game: luck and martial prowess shape a world power

I had asked for a hand-made distribution of starting positions to avoid unbalances, such as having a nation with more expansion room. Ironically, I may have been the main beneficiary of this unbalance... This should not hide the fact that the new Agartha can now be very competitive at early expansion, and I quickly secured key choke points, effectively turning luck into actual competitive advantage.

My position was probably marginally better than most nations', and not really better than Bandar Log's. At this point, R'lyeh made the mistake to NOT expand in some territories I had kept within my choke points, but accessible by sea. Instead, they attacked Ulm with the consequences we know. Dear, beloved Ulm! While they were loosing their Wyrm, I could quietly finish my expansion undisturbed.


2. Early-mid game: the God of Primordial Waters goes wet

I quickly assessed that water and R'lyeh were to be my main area of early expansion:
- the nation was too weak
- I am good underwater
- R'lyeh's overall aggressive behavior meant that they were unlikely to find allies;
- conquering the seas would position me in a very interesting strategic position, as unilaterally threatening everyone while no other amphibious nation could really hope to attack me there.
- Plus it was thematic for my Pretender!

R'lyeh helped me a lot by lunching ill-planned attacks which allowed me destroying his assets before I started the real attack, and having a legitimate casus belli. When I lunched the real attack, R'lyeh was already desperate and turned AI almost at the time I ordered Pale Ones to dive: war was won before the first decisive battle.


3. Mid game: cold war with Bandar Log

By then, Bandar Log was the clear contender. OK I dominated, but it appeared as a hard nut to crack nonetheless. He had won the race to most artifacts (for a turn or so, I even forged 3 of them which came in his possession because he forged them the same turn!), he had 2 of the 4 gem gen globals, and I was afraid at his astral power. Now every turn I would ask myself: how to defeat him? Shall I attack now, or not? Attacking a lesser contender, at this point, was out of question as Bandar Log would have immediately allied with him against me, and i wanted, if possible, to fight against BL alone.

Then the miracle happened: BL's pretender devoured by a horror, while he was the global caster! With this small micro-management mistake, I think the game balance drifted very strongly and very suddenly. I assessed the cost to be huge: lost of a useful artifact I could steal, of a rainbow pretender for whom scales had been butchered, and of 2 major globals! Considering the cost of all artifacts forged and of the globals, I estimated that at this point, BL could not have developed many more war assets. Artifacts are good but none is like an atomic bomb, they need to be deployed in a full integrated force. OK the globals were immediately cast again, as in fear of the plots being taken (I was ready to cast the minor astral one next turn to take a slot). That was impressive, but I estimated the cost to be huge, certainly paid by alchemizing gems carefully saved for other purposes. While I was summoning/forging at full speed... So the time for attack had come.


4. "Late game": a decisive war without decisive battle

Again, a war won without any battle. I designed an attack plan from 5 directions, fully using my access to the seas and teleporting abilities of Agartha and water magic. At the same time, I kept my most special weapons such as my Golem-Prophet and another customized one to counter a counter-offensive, especially for fort defense. But these weapons will never been used. I think BL, at this point, from what I see now, was already overwhelmed by the more "conventional" armies I could throw at him offensively. Bad luck with a stale and he lost all hope.


5. Conclusion: "A victory without glory?"

This game is a strange one for me! The first clear, indisputable victory (the one with MA Ermor is more like "we are all tired and he somehow dominates", this one being "nobody can defeat him")... won without any major engagement, without any major victory in the battle field! Never was a large Agarthan army fully deployed against a large opponent. It seems like all resistance melted away the minute Pale One legions started marching to war. Satisfactory as in any victory being satisfactory, but a bit frustrating also... I wish at least one epic battle had been fought with Bandar Log, somehow legitimizing my victory in the battle field... Also I could not test the more special weapons I prepared for dire situations. It never happened in this game that a mage followed my script to use a gem, due to the lack of opposition! Victory with 0 gem used in battle... :-0

It seems like I played on the strategic level only, as in a Risk/Diplomacy game, as if battles did not matter to determine victory in D3. I guess I will play MA Agartha once more soon to challenge this approach again, hoping to fight many bloody disputed battles!

Finally, thanks to all fellow players for the nice game, good spirit and enjoyable role-playing :-) At least I enjoyed looking at others' epic battles! ;)

earcaraxe December 29th, 2011 07:18 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
I agree, the turning point was that eater of gods appearing and eating my pretender with hammer of forge lord, ring of wizardry, tome of high power, mother oak, eternal pyre. that was about 250 gems lost :D

lesson learned :)

Numahr December 29th, 2011 07:40 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Waou I did not know Szivi had all these artifacts in his hands at the time he got devoured!

The micro management mistake put aside, remains the question of the delicate balance between long term investments (ring of wizardry...) versus immediate power. When a secondary power like you invests so much in powerful artifacts, then temptation is great for the competitor with not so many Rings but many more Swords to intervene without waiting... From that point of view, can't we say the Horror was indeed a manifestation of Justice avenging you for your Greed of arcane power, not taking into consideration more mundane and military power? ;)

OK this is a bit teleological I recognize... still...

earcaraxe December 29th, 2011 07:57 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
U may be right :)

however i was convinced i can quickly build up an army full of SC's in case of need, mindhunting anyone who dares to enter my empire. with the chalice the danger of feebleminding was nonexistent. however i lagged behind in terms of sieging power, and i seriously lacked earth and astral income, i had to alchemize like mad.

Hylobius December 29th, 2011 10:52 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Out of character: I was hoping to eventually defeat Ulm and then with Agartha fully engaged against Bandar I would attack Agartha. I figured that Agartha would win, but not without a good fight. With all diplomacy limited to this forum I could not reassure Bandar that I would help when I could, or Agartha would have quickly crushed me. Of course this is all academic as I was unable to deal with Ulm. I thought that my large research advantage would eventually win the war, but everytime I developed a new war-ending advancement Ulm pulled another rabbit out of the hat. Props to Ossa, I learned a lot this game.

Numahr December 29th, 2011 11:29 AM

Re: Fame and Riches - game ended, Numahr - Agartha won!
 
Thx for feedback Hylobius.

I think you were clear enough with BL. You had once called "what are the monkeys doing, let hem awake from their long sleep" or something like that, which convinced me that you were not to be trusted. I guess BL also got the message. It was also strategically logical that if you ever conquered Ulm, you would ally with the N°2 against the n°1, the only way to a possible victory - at least you had the research, a key success factor. That is another reason why:
1. I wanted to protect/keep Ulm as a kind of Western protectorate, hence my threat at you at some point
2. after Szivi's accident, I wanted to attack Bandar before you may take the lead on your war (and before Machaka recovers from the seemingly costly war against Ermor and finishes its infrastructure development plan). So I stroke at Bandar without further delay.

Although, before Szivi's accident, I had designed an alternative attack plan on BL. I thought, if one and only one minor nation joins him against me (not easy to achieve from a diplo point of view), so in practice either you or Machaka, then I can play defensive against Bandar with maybe 30-40% of my forces defending castles and counter-raiding and -hopefully- rush the minor nation with like 60-70% of my forces. I believed this is what I needed to conquer you or Machaka, although the challenges were very different - lack of research of Machaka made it more tempting, more lands easier to grab. Bandar would be stuck with the alliance and would not conquer much of the crumbling minor nation, maybe only at the very end when all hope had faded. The resulting strategic situation, assuming quick and clean victory against the minor nation, would have me being so much more powerful than Bandar that the war would be virtually won, without the need to attack Bandar's territory. So before Szivi's accident I was hoping BL would find one, and only one ally to give me an easy prey. When you asked him to awake against me, I was actually hoping he would accept.

Ulm: in this perspective, attacking Ulm made no sense as there was no spoil important enough to increase my power (4 provinces), Ulm was much more useful as an independent nation and skillful general defending his honor with no hope of victory but keeping you in check. Plus I kind of developed a genuine sympathy for them and attacking them would have felt like a betrayal... Pretender Gods have feelings too :-)


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