Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I'm not sure I can make the timer tomorrow could I get a 24h extension?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Another 24? We're already at 96h instead of the usual 48. But sure, another 24h added. (More Gentse Feesten for me this weekend. Hurray! Although so far they've been quite tame really. And the weather is absolute ****e)

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Aahahah! Atlantis's regular troops are absolutely awesome. Great stats and magic weapons. 20 dudes + minor pd (25 guys on the field total) just drove off an air queen*. (And 10pd already dealt with a Shishi before.) Is there any other nation that can boast a basic troop lineup of that quality? The nation as a whole has it's weaknesses obviously, but I'm completely in love with my little toads.


*Granted, she had a mix of caster and SC equipment so not as strong as she could have been, was not cold immune and the one Tungalic casting frozen heart probably did half of the damage, but I'm sticking with the "Eskimo Toads are Awesome" story

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I'm gonna have to ask for an extension. I'm away till 12 august at the shortest. Sorry about that, a wild vacation opportunity appeared.

(And yes, La Atlantis is awesome).

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

12 days? That's really a long time. I'd really like you to find a sub for your trip, pausing the game that long really is the perfect way to have everyone loose intrest. (Or, if you don't have the time to find a temporary sub before you leave, I can look around for someone who'll take good care of your nation, but that would mean you can't instruct them about what to do.)

Other than that I wish you the wildest vacation imaginable. ;)


In a related subject, I myself will be gone from around the 10th till the 18th. Calahan has already agreed to take over my playing duties for a couple of turns, but I'm looking for a volunteer to take care of the admin duties in case something comes up during my absence.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Tratorix seems to have disapeared too. I've added 24h, if I don't hear from him by then I'll look for a sub to play out his end. (Midgard doesn't have much left, but enough that turning them AI would make things significantly easier, including several powerful SC's.)

How about Bogarus? Is it worth finding a sub for him, (if he doesn't show up) or is he set-to-AI material?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Bogarus has one fort, which is currently under siege by C'tis, so he's not in the best position.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

He's still got three forts, actually. But more important is what is in them. If it's an indy commander and 3 Voi Archers setting them AI won't make much difference. If it's a dozen strong mages and a SC blocker though...

Regardless, I'm tempted to just put them to AI, haven't seen anything from them that warrants otherwise really. If anyone thinks otherwise now is the time to make me change my mind.


I'll start asking around for a Midgard sub now. It's a not-much-work position, so shouldn't be too hard to find one.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Say, did anyone receive a lump-sum payment of gold a few turns ago? The intended recipient hasn't received it, yet a review of the .trn file shows that the payment was sent out... to someone.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Valerius will be subbing for Midgard. (Thanks for that.) Since I haven't heard any objection I'll see to turning Bogarus AI.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Sorry for the delay. Of course there's no call for Midgard to be holding things up and I won't after this turn but I just need to decide what to do. Sure, I know it's hopeless but I've got to at least try to be a small thorn in Atlantis' side. :p

Sadly, Midgard has fallen so I won't be vortexing my forces in order to consolidate them. Although, given my history with vortex of returning maybe that's a good thing.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

$#&%! Completely forgot about that lone cyclops behind enemy lines. :mad:

So, how have SCs worked out in this game? I said early in the thread that my impression was that these mods ramped up the power level. From what I can tell they do generally do that but then there's some nerfs as well, such as to some SC HPs. Have there been any trends with particular units doing well?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I'm quite puzzled with this mod. It's not to my liking at all. Very weird.
It's okay to have a F10, Heat 50, Fire Aura 30 Fire King, but somehow Zmeys are where they draw the line and nerf?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Yeah, I've found Zmeys to be a waste of fire gems in this mod. he nerf bat got swung a bit to hard; they'd be ok at 60 hp per head in my opinion.

The royalty is kick-***, but I don't think necessarily OP. Since my precious fire king was mentioned: the big difference to vanilla in practical terms has been that I could kit him for a fight AND have him cast Fire Storm, while in vanilla I'd have to chose. Don't think the massive fire shield has come into play yet.

Interestingly a lot of people took freespawn chassis. Admiral_Aorta certainly made good use of his sphinx-made dust walkers. My scorpion men have been less effective then I hoped for.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I've actually found the dustwalkers to be a bit superfluous, they are good but I don't get many of them and they don't synergize well with my other undead.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

/nod. The elemental royalty is without doubt very good in this mod, but I wouldn't call them overpowered, by virtue of being unique. Sure, getting one is great, but you do have to get there first. The dynamic is very much like the race for artifacts, and honestly if I'd have to choose (in a void & without considering other implications) between several elmentaly royals or some key artifacts (Boots of the Planes!) Id probably still choose the latter.

Zmey... probably overnerfed, yes, though I still would't call them a waste of gems. Just have to be careful about when and how to use them. (And when to better use something else.) They have a massive hard-on for Zmey over on the SA forums though.

I really like the various summoning or domsummoning chasis. And of course since that's one of the more uncommon mechanics in Vanilla/CBM I get that many people wanted to try that out. I've been using a Frost Father myself, which doesn't give any freespawn, but does give me the option of summoning 5 Unfrozen warriors a turn. So I have all the utility of a rainbow, and when I have nothing more valuable for him to do, I get myself some tough troops that synergize well with my CR. I like it.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I haven't heard back from Soyweiser about finding a sub during his abscence. (PM'd him on both forums, but neither PM has been read, so he very well might be on a trip without internet access.)

Obviously I'll give it time at least till hosting time, but if I don't hear back by then we'll have to decide how to proceed.

My personal opinion still is that it's quite disrespectfull to the rest of the players to just expect us to pause the game for his entire 10-day abscence. (I know it never would cross my mind to ask for such. With the possible exception of the christmas-newyears week where most everyone has commitments.) So the three options are:

* Pause the game regardless.
* Let him stale. (Would probably be 2 or 3 stales. Not being involved in a major war this probably wouldn't hurt him terribly badly, but would still prevent him from developping further of course.)
* Find a (temporary) sub without his permission.

My choise would be the final option, but I'm willing to go with one of the others if a majority of the remaining players prefers it.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Personally I wouldn't mind Option A (10-day-pause).

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Thanks for pitching in, (wish more people would say what they feel about things, makes my job easier) but I'd only consider pausing a game so long if a majority of the players were fine with it, so - since no one else voiced an opinion - I'll be going with my first idea.

Wraithlord agreed to keep things running during Soy's absence, (despite being of the opinion that I should just have let him stale as "it's not an admins job to babysit the players" - but I'd rather not have anyone stale myself, especially since he did give warning, unless I have no alternative.) so I sent him the turn and added 24h to give him time to check out what's what. Anyone who has diplomatic agreements in place with Gath should probably contact WL in that regard.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

How about we end this charade already? I think there's really no point in continuing. Obviously Pythium can't touch Atlantis, not to mention myself. Ermor is a wreck of a nation (no offense Aorta) and Aby and Gath are not fighting Atlantis.
I don't really like fighting pointless half assed wars and I doubt things can be turned now.

Atlantis for winner.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Aww, I haven't used my surprise yet...

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Would be ok by me. The only way to fight Atlantis for me would be to go into the water, and without water magic that's somewhat difficult.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I really think this is premature, and there's no way this game is in the bag yet. I'm obviously in a strong position, mind you, and I might just be falling into the trap of seeing all of my potential weaknesses y'all know nothing about while imagining all the possible strong points of my enemies without knowing their weaknesses but I still don't think this is over yet. (And I would like to see what surprise Admiral Aorta has in mind. ;) )

So, while I won't drag on the game if everyone else is loosing intrest and is ready to concede I do think you might want to reconsider.

In either case, I won't be around to see the decision, since I'm leaving on a trip early tomorrow morning. I have arranged for Calahan to take over my turns and Dojango to admin things while I'm away, so feel free to discuss to your heart's content, and if I do come back to find the game's wrapped up that would be fair enough.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

How about now? If you guys are up for playing this out to the bitter end it's okay by me, but Atlantis has got more provinces and gems than the rest of us combined.
Aby can't attack Atlantis, not to mention he's in war with me as well. Pyth can't touch Atlantis, neither can Ermor. Gath has been chillin' the last 50 turns or so.
It's pretty much Pyth and me vs Atlantis and everyone can see how that's going.

Isn't it about time we call it?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Soyweiser. Are you back from vacation?- Want your kingdom back?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Yeah, I'm back, I was procrastinating my dom3 responsibilities a bit. (Had a lot of time to thing, and reassess my priorities, somehow dom3 got downgraded).

Let me look at the turn, and then I'll decide if it is worth to continue or not.

Also, thanks for taking over WraithLord, I didn't have time to check the replies on my post. I'm happy somebody subbed for me. Thanks! Also Amhazair, enjoy your trip!

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

NP Soyweiser. I took care to be conservative as not to upset any plans you may have had. That said, IMHO the current situation screams "Attack Atlantis now!" but even that may be too little too late.

Shall I email it to you?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

all aboard the atlantis murder ship!!!

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Yeah, things are getting bleaker and bleaker for the Non-Atlantis faction. If anyone or everyone wants to gang up on him immediately, we can keep going, see how things shake up, but otherwise he's gonna win. Sure, he might have some secret weakness, but even if we figure it out, fly through the trench and bomb the reactor core, his massive gem income will let him whip out new superweapons that much faster.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

So, do I need to provide my email adres somewhere or something?

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

You can PM it to me.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Done, but I think I still cannot send turns, the admin needs to change the ownership of the nation back to me.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

You can send me the .2h and I'll fwd 2 the server. Awkward but necessary until the admin. is back.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Soy, PM me yor email address and I can change it.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Added 24 hours by Atlantis's request.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

1) I'm back. (Haven't looked at my turns yet, Calahan still submitted this one.) Any diplomacy, as well as admin stuff can be directed to me again.

2) Both Abysia and C'tis looked like double-staling (And this while both players have most certainly been around.) so added 4h for now.

3) As said, I haven't looked at the turns yet, so don't know what's changed. (apart from some reports I got from Calahan) As I (think I) said before, I will accept surrender if there is consensus that playing on is pointless, (and boring) but so far I have seen only Executor really speaking out for it, and some humming and hawing from anyone else. (And, again without looking at the last 3 turns, I'm still convinced that proper play can take me down.) So if you feel this game is over, please say so clearly, and if you'd like to play on too. In the meantime I'd appreciate it if everyone played on properly rather than turning in passive turns and/or staling, (hopefully not deliberately in an attempt to have the game end faster) and thus ruining the game for those who haven't given up on it yet.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

In that case I could use a 24 hour delay.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Added.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I'd certainly like to keep playing, it's not like I have anything to lose.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

An extra 2 hours would be nice.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I think I'm ready to concede to Atlantis. It was a good game, but I was unable to leverage the new endgame units effectively against Atlantis's hordes.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

After the last few turns I'm inclined to agree that I've won the game, even with sudden full cooperation of everyone else (which doesn't look like happening?) and solid play. That said, if others don't agree and feel like putting that theory to the test, I'm happy to play on as long as necessary. I've added 24h for now to give everyone a chance to chime in. (I'm not home tomorrow and might lack the internet access to check what's been said.)

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I doubt anyone will disagree with you. ;) Midgard's opinion doesn't count for much but I think you've earned the win and there's no need to waste (especially your) time by playing on.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

This is the turn you realize you've won?:p It was evident 15 turns ago (at least).
In any case, congrats on your win Amhazair. Luck played a huge part in it here, but doesn't it always? ;)

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Right then. One game down!

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I don't agree. 15 turns ago a solid and commited dogpile would (or at least should) have taken me down. No such thing materialized though, even though it should have been clear to everyone that was the way to go.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

No. Not even a coordinated attack could have done much. Trust me, I've seen and fought through a lot of these situations and I've seen far worse nations than yours come out winner in all of them.

Let me explain and sum everything up;

Unlike any other player in the game you had a huge advatage by not having any wars at all until you attacked Midgard (due to all the AI nations (and at which point it was too late)).
You were the only water power on a map with no Rlyeh and a large amount of water provinces. Let's not mention the extra mobility this gained you on a rather choke point-y map.
You were also the far strongest player even without any wars and than especially due to that same reason (no needles expenses in gems and troops like the rest of us), being the leader in almost all categories from the start I believe.
I'm not trying to undermine your skills or effort, but there's something horribly wrong when a player reaches 50 provinces without fighting anyone, however skilled or talanted, on a map with some 16ish provinces per player.

Now, keep in mind the logistical problems the rest of us faced even if all united. Each of us could only attack a hand full of your provinces, at best, and even than there were a lot of choke point and dead ends, while you had the advantage of striking nearly any of us at any place with great mobility.

Also keep in mind that uniting every single nation is impossible under any scenario as you must well know, since at least some nation have bad blood between them. Even in the best of scenarios there is always at last someone will not only avoid the big war, but rather join the winning nation for some ludicrous reason (like ending second, or misguided belief they can stop you alone if they grab a chuck of your, now mutual, enemies, or they feel the game is lost, or revenge, etc).

Turn when you attacked Midgrad was the turn crucial turn. If Midgard, Pyth and myself had coordinated (without having to deal with internal problems) you could have been stopped, with a special emphasis on could.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Looks like I let the turn host. Should have submited my (partially completed) turn, that way I would have know if I could have taken Midgards main castle I finally decided to storm last turn. (And at what cost.)

Executor, I simply do not agree with you at all about the power of dogpiles in general. I do agree that they're often hard to pull off for the reasons you stated, especially people holding to their grudges ahead of their own self-intrest. [and I also felt pretty confident no massive dogpile was developping in this game, though it's hard to know for sure what others are talking about of course] But when a dogpile does come together, with its members actually coordonating their efforts and commited to the objective it's a truly awesome thing to behold. And that's the reason I rejected earlier claims that I had the game in the bag, not because I wasn't confident I couldn't stand against, say, any 2 nations, but that if all/most other players put aside their diferences and combined forces against the obvious, runaway leader I couldn't have stood up against all of you.

I'm glad I managed to pull off the trick of convincing you I could react to everything with "unparalelled mobility" but actually a big part of that unceratainty actually was actually lack off mobility. I had just enough mobile assets to quite quickly take the fight to anything you, Pythium and Ermor did against me, but another front, or even just more agressive play from Pythium would have meant I would have been forced to leave attacks unanswered. Or, as Calahan put it in a message to me:

Edit: All of the above with the caveat that just as it's possible for you to overestimate my capabilities (as I'm sure you have) I might have done the same with others of course.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

Very true this last part. Actually, I'm quite certain you did overestimate the rest of us. I was the, what; third, forth nation by power? I had absolutely nothing going on the entire game. A complete fail on my part. I imagine the rest had even less. You on the other hand, had a quite substantial amount of gems (something I'm astounded by since I site searched 5-6 paths in my lands and came out almost empty handed (all my D income for example was capital only)), which is how I measure power.

I've fought in many dogpilles, like I said, and know that losing ground, and even losing ground fast doesn't necessarily mean anything.
Even if we had managed to pull our **** together and outmaneuver you, reducing your empire size, you could have easily compensated for it with a massive AN, GoNB, or something else he had no chance of dispelling or overcasting.

Take a look at my position in MoL. I seem to be slowly losing ground but I'm also getting much more stronger. In fact, C'tis seems almost on level with me now that he's done with you though it's likely I'm as powerful as the four remaining nations together.

As for the mobility part. I find it quite laughable too, Calahan. Surely you must be joking?
If you think Atlantis had problems with mobility you should put yourself in some other nations perspective. I, for one, could attack one to two provinces a turn (not counting water provinces where you're clearly at a huge advantage, and obviously not counting provinces I lost within my lands due to raiding or whatever). Clearly, that's a serious problem since you don't have to guess much where the next attack is likely to be. (keep in mind that the raiding capabilities of the rest of us were almost non existing as well to pose any real threat on your inner provinces)
I'm sure other weren't in a better position either.

Atlantis on the other hand had the seas, all interconnected.
Even with mm1 in the water I can see Atlantis easily transporting troops trough them to find big juicy chinks of unprotected land. (I actually find it quite retarded that you have to activate "8" on your keyboard to see what's connected btw.)
Let's not mention that sea actually give you a better coverage against any counter measures we might come up with as well.
And one last thing; attacking from sea is such a marvelous advantage since you always have at least a few to up to several provinces you can attack.

You can come out and tell me what you find so silly in my opinion of this game and situation Calahan. ;)

As for really reacting to something with great mobility, I think you misunderstood. You had nothing to react too. I think Pyth and I proved that, and we were the threat:)

Wow, that'a big post...

EDIT: The real problem with dogpiles is that they're usually, if ever, formed too late to matter in the end game decisive wars.

Re: Awestruck. New Late Age game. (Started)
 

I thought your raiding parties were very effective. A handful of tough troops with very high prot backed by a frozen heart casting tungalik or two made for a very cost effective force. And if they die you're just out a little gold. Definitely good value for your money.

In terms of mobility, one thing Exec may be referring to is that with water provs spread throughout the map and you controlling all of them (well, as far as I'm aware) it gave you lots of angles of attack for those raiders and more substantial forces when called for. I would imagine you also were able to make good use of the Angakok's sailing ability and ride the currents/traverse the sea.

Edit: ninja'd