Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

tivavals and hereward, it has been very fun, and you guys were great to play with. hope to see you in other games.

one other thing:i have never gone AI before-is there anything in particular i should do?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Look if its that big then I'll resend the turn, geez you've been a good player. Tough it out. I'm sure most people wouldn't mind, a redone turn makes little difference to me Marrigon or Krpeter, van gave his consent and the only people who might mind are are Ermor and Agartha; I'll wait for their word.

Also its not just you, its for the rest of the players as well.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

cant really do that kitty. already sent van a PM explaining where the attack was going to fall as a kind of courtesy to him, so rolling back wont really help.

also, i find it a bit off putting that you would lecture me on doing what is right for the rest of the players. i have stuck out many, many bad situations to the last province in several games(since i stink as a player, i have gotten good at 'last stand').

as i stated in this thread, the timing was just horrendous.

an Admin's most important job is to prevent stales. most admins will go so far as to extend turn intervals even if a player doesn't ask for it, if it appears they are going to stale. the admin will then try to contact the player and see if it is a mistake or intentional, and then find a sub if needed. admining well is a lot of work.

that said, to deny multiple players extensions and force stales on them is not good for the 'rest of the players'. very few MP games will survive that type of admining. it cost this game two so far.

in any case, good luck. i did enjoy this game, there were some excellent players in it.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

ps i honestly have never gone AI in a MP game. do i need to do anything?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Like I said, I'm new. I made the reasonable assumption that the admin takes passive requests and that the onus is on the player. Still learning.

And I'd figure the lecturing would be uncomforting but I had to tell you what I saw ,it's still your choice to go AI. And all you have to do is go in options and set it to computer controlled.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

The admin's most important job in ensuring the smooth running of the game. Which involves a number of things, but covers the likes of having an approprotate schedule in place for the stage the game is at (ie. one that increases as the game progresses and becomes more complex). That no players are struggling to submit their turns, and to be given some assistance and options if they are having trouble (eg. extending hosting for a period of time, which can help players that are busier than normal, such as having exams or deadlines). It also means trying to limit the frequency of delays, as for example it is usually a lot better all round to permanently extend a schedule by 24 hours, rather than keep adding 24 hour delays every other turn. The smoothness of regular hostings is usually to be prefered over how quickly turns rollover.

An admin should also try to make sure that the nation of any players who have excessive staling records, or have gone awol, are addressed and dealt with quickly in whatever manner deemed best by the admin. It is very common in these situations for the admin to ask the players what they think is the best course of action. (ie. find a sub, turn AI, leave to stale etc).

Sometimes there will be disputes between players, and it is the admins job to deal with those as fairly and impartially as he can. Luckily such disputes don't happen that often, but when they do, and when the players can't settle it amongst themselves, then it is the admin who has to step in and sort it out, and try to minimise the disruption to the overall game.

If the admin is also the person organising the game, then they should try to spend some time and effort before the game starts in making sure the game settings are clear in the first post, and that maps and mods are linked where applicable. They should also aim to minimise the chances of any players getting unfairly favoured or punished due to controllable factors. For example picking maps that either heavily advantage or disadvantge a lone water nation, or mistakenly assuming that random starts are in any way balanced. That is to say the game has NO built-in scripts to ensure that random starts are appropriate (ie. That capitals will have 4 or more neighbouring provinces). And there is effectively no concern for where capitals are located, or if they are evenly placed, apart from making sure they are not located next to each other. (ie. captals are placed anywehere the map commands allow. If there are no commands in the .map file relating to start locations, then players will literally start anywhere on the map)

There is a wide selection of maps available in the community, many of which have been modified to have random fixed starts. (eg. A map has been modified to have just 10 start locations, and any nation could start in any one of the fixed start locations. ie. Random starts, but in fixed locations). Admins, especially new ones, shouldn't be afraid of asking the community for help with selecting maps (and not just asking the players in the game), or even asking for help in modifiying maps. There are several helpful members in the Dominions community, often with years of experience in playing and modding. They also lurk a lot, so you can often just make a general request on a game thread (something like "Can any senior member suggest a good map for a 8 player game for new players"), and chances are someone will notice it. Although it doesn't hurt to go looking for help either, such as the IRC channel. Or even posting for help in the Maps scetion of the forum. (although please be aware that a lot of senior members of the community no longer post on the Shrapnel forum, or even visit it, so you might need to go elsewhere to get their help)

That is nowhere near true. Some very selective admins do take steps to actively prevent players staling, usually by delaying hosting (without being asked by a player) to prevent an imminent stale by one or more players.

But for the vast majority of admins and MP games (we are talking 95%+), it is entirely the players own responsibility to submit turns before the deadline, and to ask for delays in a timely manner (the unofficial meaning of "timely manner" is usually a minimum of 24 hours in advance).

If you have experience of playing in games with admins who prevented stales with unrequested delays, then you need to realise that this is far from the normal procedure for most admins. Whatever lengths some admins might go to to prevent players staling is the exception to the norm, and you certainly shouldn't expect (or even demand it seems) for every admin to do take such preventative measures. As that is just being highly unrealistic, and very unreasonable. Admins have real lives, and real life time constraints, just like everyone else does.

Yse, most admins will (and should) do this.

It is, and it can take a lot of experience and practice to get to that level. But admins shouldn't be chastised for failing to excel, and certainly not if they are doing an acceptable job. And there is an added unfairness if it's their first attempt at the job. (please note I have no infomation or stance on previous events in this game. Just that in this particular case, I see nothing the admin did wrong. Apart from not being at the computer every minute of every day to check for delay requests.)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

man with no name-

all good, valid points.

this was a situation, however, where the player had asked for a 24 hour delay and did not receive it.

that said, any admin(or player) would do well to read your take on things.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

So are we finding a sub?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Two things on going AI:

1) It's generally discouraged because the AI plays so badly. Even a half-hearted effort by a player is usually superior.

2) Finding a sub for a losing position can be difficult. So in the interest of keeping the game moving along going AI could be better -- but it's always best to check with the admin first. Don't go AI if he thinks he can find someone.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

He isn't losing that badly, in terms of forces yes but he hasn't lost ground from his starting position. Ulm and I was in the tentative talks of an alliance against Van , it doesn't matter now.

Still Parone if you are going please PM me the password (if you have one) so I can find a sub.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

It's unfortunate to see parone go, but if you have chosen to do so, then there's little to do.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

there is no password. i don't beleive in security...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

also, at this point, i would not want to sub into my position. three stales and me repaying some debts have gutted what was Ulm. you'd be better off going ai.

however, it's up to you.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Also they will be plunged headfirst into a war; I cannot afford to give any grace period, as I am second to last in the graphs and fall behind in terms of resources every turn, thus must press on.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

guys, how do i go AI? seriously, what menu do i use?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

hmmm. i think i got it

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

There's a button in the options called "Become computer controlled", but since we are(I think?) looking for a sub, since some crazy person might want to test out mid-high level Ulm, you shouldn't press it yet.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

crap tiavals, i had already hit it. im sorry, didn't think a sub was in the loop.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

A nation is not permanently set to computer controlled until the turn hosts. So if the admin delays the game, and turns quickhost off, then that will allow a substitute player to send in a turn file to overwrite the orders to turn AI. (providing a sub can be found).

Re: sub hunting
It is a common fallacy to assume that subs are hard to find for poor or hopeless postions, as the truth it usually the exact opposite of this. Since if a player knows their longterm commitment to the game is going to be short-lived, and with limited time requirements for turns, then it is quite likely that a player will sub in if it only means spending 5 minutes per turn for a dozen turns.

It is actually the good positions that are hard to find subs for, as in those cases a substitute player might have to commit an hour of more each turn for an indefinate period of time, and to a position and game they have no conection to or personal interest in. And finding a player willing to take on that level of fresh commitment can be very difficult, and almost impossible if a newbie isn't acceptable (for whatever raeson)

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

i wonder, man with no name, what your name once might have been...

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

I see the game is running again on the server. Did we find a sub?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Doubt it, I'm pretty certain they want AI.

Also, does anyone know if any of the mods we're using have been messed up by the recent update?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

sluagh, obviously im out of this, but i am in two others. one is all messed up, one is fine. it keeps asking me to install llamabanner.dm, even though it is already installed.

not sure how to fix it, let me know if you figure it out!

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Agartha's globals are getting a bit scary. Who other than Ermor is trying to keep him in check?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

We found a sub, sorta. Ossa went from Marrigon to Ulm. Actually I'm pretty sure he is in control of both. I'm going to have to ask him to set Marrigon to AI, otherwise he is sockpuppeting I guess.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

I thought it was impossible for one player to play multiple nations in an MP game -- doesn't Dominions flag that and screw up your client if you try it?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Agartha is peaceful. No smash Agartha. :(

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Lol!!!

We from Abysia find your Wrath of the sea an unprovoked sign of aggression, we will react accordingly.

Distasteful as it is, we of Abysia will be supporting Ermor.

Also Bogus do as you like with Ulm I no longer care.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Double-LOL -- he just Wrath of the Sea. "Everyone please kill me now!!!"

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Hmmm... I feel bad about defeating Marignon's last army. My thugs killed his commanders and his beautiful cavalry all fled. I'm sorry about that, it wasn't intentional.

Well, at least we have the final castle invasion, that should be fun! C'mon Marignon, your mages should be able to fry a few of my thugs!

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Heh, I might survive yet, even after stalling last turn XD

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Gl, the only person that's really unaffected are Ermor and Ulm, who are minor powers at this point.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Short Poll - may I continue the next two turns to watch Marignons end? I dont have spies there with Ulm and I'd like to see the finals.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Pishposh, I was casting globals since no one else was, and felt like a waste to see the list empty. If you don't like wrath of the sea, dispel it, just don't hate me for what I am. :(

Oh, and Agartha is looking defensive allies against the tyranny of Abysia.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Hey, just saw the situation I'm in and definitely need some extra time to breathe deeply and come up with a master strategy to not die. Can we get a 12 hour extension?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

D'oh!

Yeah, I forgot that monkey PD exists only to kill my own thugs... garrrr....

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

I cannot help but giggle maniacally -- I am about to give new meaning to the phrase "more fun than a barrel of monkeys" ;->

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

oh geez, sry guys. Exam season, a bit hectic here. I'll try to check once a day

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Maybe we should increase the hosting interval on account of the upcoming holidays. 3 days? More?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

yeah probably a good idea

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Kitty you should really tell people here when you extend an extra 2 days, what you have done and why etc.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

Communication is a good thing. What is the plan at present? When can we expect the game to restart?

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

:confused:

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

The game hosted and kitty staled, which is unfortunate, but Kitty had 5 days to do their turn in and could have delayed hosting at any time, so I trust the game will proceed as normal now.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

I just checked kitty's other game , it appears he gave admin to someone else and potentially left the game. Kitty if life is busy im sure me or tiavals would be happy to take over admin, also if you wish we could find a sub

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

I got the impression his being too busy is a temporary thing... that said, the demands of being an admin are more serious than that of being a player. He needs to be able to stay in communication with us at the very least if he's going to admin. If he is going to return in a week or two, we may need a short term sub, or none at all if we can tolerate a few stales...depends on what pace we want during Xmas and all.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

OK, and I just learned an important lesson -- astral on thugs is *not* a good idea. Hmmmph. So undead thugs are out (maggots), astral thugs are out (astral duel), guess I need a plan C.

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

astral thugs can be awesome(body ethereal etc) but you have to be carful of that nasty duel spell. that can be countered if they(your thugs) are fairly high S(that is hard) really mobile(to keep your enemy guessing) or you can escort them with a ton of low end astral mages(shamans come to mind).

all those counters are situational of course. but then, some nations have little access to astal themselves, so S thugs can be AWESOME. but you are right, it is defineately a double edged Sword

Re: Middle Age Crisis ,CBM1.94+Assimilation mod 1.1 7/8 Players Remaining
 

"some nations have little access to astral" he says -- like Vanheim, right?

Indie mages are *such* a pain :-P

It's ok, I'll have some astral-free thugs in a few turns.