Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

The condition was I get them back whenever I would need them :)


url anchor GoodKnight_IL May 8 2013, 5:40pm said:
No need just return them to me when you can or if I need them (you can take your time about it as well)
Will 20 S help?

url anchor Brain_Caster May 8 2013, 5:59pm said:
Sure. How soon do you want them back?

Bam :)

And I would say yes since it is kind of like a trade and trades are binding.
But what say we leave it up for admin to decide?

To admin I don't really really care I don't have much to do with 20S but it's the principal I guess.. Plus I'm Jewish so I can't help it :)

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Although I was not the original creator of this game's rules I will still voice my opinion.

My ruling is this. This was a trade of sorts, so the gems need to be returned. One part of the returning condition was the phrase 'if I need them' so Abysia only needs to claim that he needs the gems. However, because Abysia added the clause 'you can take your time about it as well', they need not be returned immediately. I would judge that returning them in say 2-3 turns would satisfy the terms of the agreement

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

I'm patting myself on the back for putting up those domes. I knew something sinister was afoot.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

lol I'm ok with the ruling since it was my intention to help Ermor out..

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

I added time to prevent Oceania staling (accidentally added bit too much, doesn't really matter I hope).

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

That sounds reasonable enough to me. But still, could we please find a judge who isn't part of the game? I suspect his or her ruling won't differ from yours, but at least I'll not feel like I'm needlessly giving up an advantage by paying back the gems.


I also have some bad news, unfortunately. We currently have a slight flooding problem here in Passau, south-eastern Germany, and there is a chance that in about 12 hours I'll be able to take a bath in my living room. Not sure yet how high the water will rise, but currently it seems like that's a possibility. Chances are my internet connection will be... compromised... by that point.


Could the admin please increase the hosting interval to 1 week until I can contact you again? If I'm lucky, the water won't actually rise that high, and I'll send in my next turn as usual. If not, then you'll hear from me as soon as I have dry feet again.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

I'll add as much time as needed Brain_Caster. Could you keep us informed on the situation if possible?

Now about the trade deal. Let's see if we can find some forum regualar...

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

from what I understand he borrowed 20 gems. Borrowing isn't trading.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Thanks for the delay. I probably could have gotten turn in tonight, but the extra time helps (going through several things, though not as seriuos as what brain_caster is going through).
I should have it in Monday afternoon...or monday night...or may get delayed to Tuesday morning, but will definetly get it in before deadline.
Thanks!

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Still a deal is a deal.. Plus I asked him before I declared war and he didn't respond..

Again not really worth arguing over it is just the case of setting a president.. If you guys think it's ok for him not to return them then I will be more careful in the future.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Borrowing is trading for the same amount of gems as you will send back in the future.

Brain_Caster I hope you don't get hit by the flood.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

If borrowing was the same as trading, then they would be one word

But they are two different words because they mean two different things.

And if America Borrowed something from Germany just before WWII. I don't think they would give it back after the war started.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Why are you fighting on terminology? We should be talking about what the 'Trades are binding' means.

There was nothing about whether trades really are binding or not in the original post. When asked - I just made a ruling based on what is the multiplayer standard in this post. And yes, Time_Legend sort of threw the admin responsibility to me so I believe I had the right to make the call.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...&postcount=134

Now here is my interpretation. If you agree to some trade, the sending of gems/items part is binding. It does not matter why you agree to send that stuff or whether it makes any sense to do so. You have to do it.

Here is a thread from another forum which tries to explain the idea clearly.

http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/...?showtopic=726

Now, when you borrow some gems, there is an agreement that the lender sends some gems and then later the borrower sends them back. Both of these actions are binding, and are not affected on whether the parties are at war or not.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

"Trade agreements in this context are defined as any simple trades that are completed within a few turns"


It wasn't a trade it was a borrow, and it wasn't completed in a few turns.


So it doesn't count on either point.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Do you guys want me to ask Cal or Maer?
(for those of you who don't know they are the most veteran in the community.. That I know of :) )

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

I don't care about whether it was called a borrow or trade. It was an agreement that exchanged gems for gems.

But you have a valid point in that it was not clearly very simple and it was not completed in a few turns.

For example, I would still hold that an agreement to borrow X gems for 2-3 turns would be binding.

I will have to agree that you have some good points and this might be a borderline case. I will withdraw my first judgement and wait till I hear some more opinions.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

I'm biased of course :D But I'm in the idea that it is binding since gems did change hands and there was an agreement.

But in my opinion anything that includes gems and items in it is a trade agreement. If it was agreed that they would be returned in a few turns they should be returned..

Just my 2 cents I'd be glad to ask Maer and Cal if you guys want.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Cal or Maer have probably run across this before, I would ask Maer first though, I think cal has a lot on his plate right now.

ghoul31 may be right he has been around a long time, but I also know ghoul31 likes a good argument. I am not sure if he is practicing his semantics or if he is trying to help.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Awesome TimeLegend and congratulations!

You beat me fair and square with superior tactics. I have to admit it did not cross my mind that one spell could be that devastating for my army. Well it shows how much there is to learn in this game.

For others, I guess - the not that mighty anymore - Kailasa will continue the fight, but maybe from a little more defensive position now.

Arcane Domination and magic beings do not mix very well.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Not sure what was a sadder butchery...the Red Wedding on a Game of Thrones or the army battling itself on the fields of Tir Na

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

I'm not exactly sure what the agreement was with BC, but the "trades are binding" pertain to clear-cut item trades like "I'll give you 20 gems for item X". This rule is in effect due to the imitations in how turns are processed. Without it, nobody would trade items with each other because it would be real easy to take advantage of someone.

The deal with GK and BC appears to be outside that scope and shouldn't be regulated in my view. This isn't to say BK doesn't have a grievance, but Dominions 3 is a Machiavellian game and you need to watch your back. I would have asked for the gems back and then declared war afterward :)

Just remember who you deal with so the next time you play, you know who not to trust.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

There are several nasty battlefield spells out there that can cause a lot of devastation if you're not careful. If you're susceptible to a tactic, you need to keep your eyes open for when your opponent will use it and then counter it. For something like AD, that would probably be Will of Fates to bump up the MR of your troops, or if you're desperate cast AD after your opponent to try to seize back your troops. You can also just not use low MR troops until you have a counter -- or try to soften him up first with remote attack/assassination spells.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Let's face it. I had checked alteration (I knew Tir had researched that one to high level) but simple had completely missed that spell. Never used it - never had seen anybody use it. I was pretty confident against any 'normal' Tir na n'Og tricks. This game is quite amazing with all these tricks and counter-tricks.

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Correction: I meant Antimagic and not Will of Fates (http://dom3.servegame.com/wiki/Antimagic), although luck might help as well (never really tested luck with this type of spell, so I'm not 100%).

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

Well I talked to Maer I have no problem showing his ruling but his words are a bit harsh. He is a nice guy he was just having a rainy day as he put it..

So I have the IRC transcript saved..
It's up to you guys if I show it or not.. And until you ok it I will not share the ruling..

Edit:
I'm gonna wait on giving his ruling want to make sure it's ok by him for me to use the transcript..

Re: Furious Noobs -EA- (Newbie Game, 10/10, Running)
 

OK after a long discussion on the IRC it ended like this..
1 1 1..

meaning 1 binding 1 not binding 1 obstaning.. dom3 in a nutshell.

Maer kind of exploded so I'll ask him tomorrow when he is more relaxed.
He gave a ruling (In my favor (I think(like 99%))) But I want to give him some more time to think on it. and a clearer answer.