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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Hmmmm... In devnull3 I just got Space Yards 2. The Space yard component for ships and bases seems to have a bug. The Level 2 of the component doesn't show up in the list when building or upgrading a base, but it does for a ship.
Very odd... Rollo? Binford |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
I think you have to research a certain level of Ship Construction or Base Construction to get the appropriate shipyard... so you can't get Base Yard III until you get Starbases, not sure what the levels for ship yards are...
OK, my turn for a question... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif How come the "larger" base PD mounts don't actually take up more space? They have more hitpoints... the Massive Base PD actually make nice non-hit-first armor, with their 80 HP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Ed, there's even better Weapon platform armor...
I forget what it's called but it is black colored armor and under a PD mount enhancement can give you HUNDREDS of Kt of defensive armor!!! Anybody else notice this?... |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
WOw, no discussion in over a month?
Hey ROllo, how comes the latest patch? Also, devnull3 *looks* to be entering late midgame so any interest in devnull4? And TAZ, not sure if 1FSTCAT is using that armour, but he is sure using WP's to good effect against me. Am I correct in thinking WP's give the bestMounts? They have better range than Spinal Mounts it seems. Binford [ June 25, 2003, 06:19: Message edited by: Binford ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
i just wanted to point out - in DevNull whenever i setup a ship with small PDC (those 5kT ones) the strategy is reset to 'DONT GET HURT'. a known bug?
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
I suggest that the Ultimate Strategies Mod be incorporated into Devnull, as it only makes the game better. It has all of the TDM formations, plus more! And, it has lots of extra strategies too.
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
too many strategies fyron, i got lost when i played P&N for the first time - i mean the amount of strategies and ship types there. I believe everyone should create their own, not use a humongous list. at least thats what i do http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
in playing an SP game against the monsters, I notice there are no sound affects especially in tactical combat, all I get is a pinging noise, Are there combat sounds and how do I turn them on?
just some ideas Mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
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The mod might use custom sound .wavs that are in the '..mod/sounds' directory - in order for you to hear them in the game you would have to be using the classic sound effects - which I don't think much people use anymore. If you prefer the new effects as your default, just move the files in the mod to the '..mod/sounds/new' directory and all should be good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
One more thing: When I create a stellar moon around a star I cannot create anymore planets from asteroid fields there as the message says there is no star. When I try to create a star in that system the message says that there is already a star and no more stars possible. Maybe only the text of the Messages should be changed or is this a bug?
Edit: Rollo, nice to see the update is coming http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif [ July 03, 2003, 14:17: Message edited by: Pablo ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
I was wondering how you set the mod up to star with destroyers? I think I know how you did it, but I would like to be sure.
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Pablo - that is the way contructed planets work in SE4. Same with Ringworlds and Sphereworlds. Unless I am missing something, that cannot be modded out.
Atrocities - I am not quite certain what you mean. Could you be a bit more specific? Rollo |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
So far, most of what I've incorporated into the devnull that I'm playing, is a lot of Deathstalkers MountMod 1.40, and several tweaks to the galaxy generation. Even so I ended up adjusting the numbers of the mount mods to make it more "playable".
For example, I removed Missile Miniaturization (put it into SRMs) and then balanced cost, versus suppiles, versus size, etc... I also added in the various shield mods, LRMs, and Engine Mounts. With normal components for all the mods, AI interuption is minimal (except in the case of the gatling mount, which I no longer use). In most cases the AI doesn't use any of the mods, cept the SRMs. If anyone wants the info, I'll pass along more indepth observations. Cheers |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
ooh, lots of questions. I have neglected this thread for a while, my apologies. I shall answer them in order:
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Yes, depending on the kick off date for devnull4, I am interested to play. Yes, weapon platforms are a lot stronger in DNM than the standard game. Both due to the good mounts and the extra hitpoints from PD. I am also considering to allow ablative armor on platforms. Quote:
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Well, that's it for now. Rollo |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Rollo, the only combat sounds I get is the pinging noise, I don't even get any of the regular combat sounds, also in the Del mod folder is monsterchant and another chant, I dont' get them in the game either, these two work as when I open them in the file they give gozzilla's scream and the tommahawk chant, Confused?????
The Delv mod does have a sound folder but only the monsterchant and tommahawk chant are in there, don't even get the normal combat sounds Kwok, I have TDM and it has all the combat sounds, I just can't seem to get them in Delvmod, I put the sounds like you said into the mod/sounds/new folder and it still didn't work, do I have to take each sound out of the new and actually put them individually under sounds outside of the new folder???? Mac [ July 04, 2003, 04:16: Message edited by: mac5732 ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
You should be able to get away with putting the sounds in the default \sounds\new folder. Maybe even the default \sounds folder, just to be thorough. You can delete the mod \sounds folder if you want, although I don't think it's necessary with the latest patch.
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
I found the problem, there is/was a sound folder inside the Mod. I transferred it to the SE4 sound folder, then deleted the folder out of the DelMod, and everything is now ok, at least so far, tks for those who helped out
just some ideas Mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
OK folks, devnull3 is wrapping up, and I am wanting to go ahead and post the signup for devnull4! Hope all of you will play!
August marks almost a full year of ongoing PBW devnull games going. Let's keep it up... I added devnull4 to PBW JUST NOW, please post suggestions for game settings. Binford [ July 10, 2003, 21:48: Message edited by: Binford ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
I wanted to let everyone know that I greatly enjoyed my first game of Devnull 3. Binford was a major challenge, and the only other player I sparred with, quit, so I didn't get a real good feel for some of the new combat features.
As I have always felt, this game reinforced for me how unbalancing the Talisman is. I'm not sure what Binford had to do to get it, but it's INCREDIBLY difficult to fight against. Maybe instead of it providing an ABSOLUTE to-hit, it could just add a significant bonus to hit? Fortunately, the Devnull Mod is more equally balanced, since a player can take advantage of some of the better mounts, which provide a significant bonus to-hit. That combined with a more accurate weapon can really help level the field. I would be interested in joining the new game. Please make the galaxy smaller this time around, though, as managing 250-300 planets is just a royal pain for me. |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Just to summarize my suggestions for improvement of the Devnull mod:
More sensors: Players need the ability to research to higher levels of weapon accuracy. Perhaps sensors with 25% and 50% more to-hit bonuses? More ECM: If you add sensors, you should add ECM. Talisman should work more like an "uber-sensor", and without the "absolute" to-hit. Perhaps adding or changing an energy weapon to provide an extremely long range. The long-range mount is nice, but it would be nice to pay more for something, instead of having the to-hit rate altered. Maybe a larger long-range mount could be offered, too? Would it be possible to seperate the Multi-Targeting research from the ECM research? That would be nice. I like the Heavy Bombardment Missle. Maybe there could be more levels of research beyond that, with "hardended" Heavy Bombardment Missles, that could take more damage. They're quite expensive to use, and fairly easy to defeat. That's all for now. How does that sound? |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
In playing sp, I found that the Sonne needs a little tweaking, they are not very strong and could use a boost to get on par with the rest of the AI's, IMHO only. I tried several games and they did not fare very well. I like the race and think its a great enhancement to the game but could use a little boost and make them a little tougher.... MHO only
just some ideas Mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
is the gold upto 1.7 now?
what about the devnull4 game? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif i just signed up please fill me in? |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
SE4 gold is up to 1.84, Delv mod is at 1.70
just some ideas mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
[never mind]
[ July 27, 2003, 17:59: Message edited by: Silent Sorrow ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Binford - Hey, good to see that Devnull4 PBW game attracted so many players. I won't be able to join, though. Can't handle a large game with short game turns at the moment.
1FSTCAT - Currently changing the tech tree is not an option, since it will mean rework of the AI (again). If you want better sensors, try taking psychic-temporal combo. Adding a new mount for long range can be considered, though. What kind of ship class did you have in mind for using it? Heavy Bombardment Missle is already on the list for review the weapons. Along with Grav Hellbores and Incinerator Beam. Expect some changes to it in the next Version (whenever that will be...) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif . Mac - Can you be more specific about the Sonne AI? Where exactly are they lacking? Any suboptimal designs or tactics? In my tests when develop them they did pretty good. And I also got good feedback for them so far. Any hints are helpful, if I am to tweak them. Cirvol - yep, 1.70 is the current released Version. My apologies for things going slow. But it is summer afterall http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . Rollo |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Rollo, following observations in friends 7 games and my on going lst SP game ( all were SP games)
Sonne 1. appears their ability to build ships is limited. the speed in which they build appears somewhat slower the the rest example. human/Ai players build DN in 6 turns, takes Sonne 12, gives human player advantage in numbers. Appears their build cycles are almost twice as long as the other AI's and human player 2. Ship design little weak, they use almost all psy weapons, could use some other big weapons to help out 3. research ability slower then rest. Human/other Ai's have BB's & Dn's, Sonne had CA's 4. Don't appear to build Super DN's, Monitors and super monitors (havn't seen them in the 8 games played so far Cuppa 1. seem weaker then in 1.84 original, not as fiesty or as strong. appear weaker and weaker in ship production as well, they don't build their ships in the quantities of 1.84. nor are they as strong Flora 1. weak in intel especialy defensive, easy to steal against General Don't see the Ai building Super DN's, monitors or super Monitors, so far very rare if at all, IE' in my Sp game, the Ai"s are using mostly BB's no Dn's etc, as their later on basic warship, gives human player huge advantage, In my game I can see most of the map, however I have only seen l super DN among the 6 races, all the ships/fleets made up of BB's as their big gun ship. Would like to see AI's use different make ups on their ships, IE different types of BB's some with one kind of weapons, another BB with other types thrown in. (same with all ship designs) Please these are only my observations, IT's a great mod and I love playing it especially with all the new stuff, this is not in any way shape or form knocking the mod, only observations so far and I could be wrong, (it wouldn't be the lst time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) please don't take my observations in any wrong way... Myself and Mac's trouble makers all really enjoy the game just some ideas Mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
whats considered to be 'unbalanced' currently in terms of racial special techs?
i notice that some 'extra special' stuff comes up when you combine 2 of the big ones... like org + relig or psy + tempo etc etc what is everyones opinion on the balance? |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Thanks for you feedback Mac. I appreciate it.
I will look into the designs of the Sonne. 12 turns for a DN is a long time indeed, esp. since they should use Temporal SY. Perhaps they use too many expensive weapons. But also from the other observations, maybe they just had a bad start. That would explain why they underperform in so many issues. Your observations about the AI is correct. I often have them use BB as ship-of-the-line for some time. Each of the AI goes through different stages and a new ship size often goes hand in hand with a change of weapons and/or combat tactics, but they should all build DN and Super-DN eventually. About Monitors and Supermonitors, I am not so sure. Could be that I didn't do designs for them, but it has been a while since I Last worked on them. My new (yet unrealesed) temporal AI does use them, though. There is always a certain element of chance, whether a race is doing good or not. Depending on the planets the AI finds early in the game. This especially true for Devnull Mod, where the chance of the AI lacking a resource is higher compared to unmodded SE4. This is not meant as an excuse and I have already improved the AI on that issue. I take your feedback seriously and will look into that. Last but not least I like to say that I attempted to make the AI really different from each other: different weapons, tactics, priorities, and use of units. Not all of these choices are maximized to efficiency and make the AI as strong as possible, but I feel they make the game richer. (Heck, when I did the Flora, I just thought I had a nifty and different concept. It wasn't my goal to make them a killer AI. Just try something new.) Last item: I am curiuos. What bonus do you give the AI in your SP games usually? Rollo |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
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Some of the combo techs are probably weaker or not so interesting as others. Personally I would be interested in a small PBW game where every player has to take at least two racial traits and get some feedback that way. On overall balance I think DNM is a lot better balanced then SE4 standard. In fact when you look at the issues in the balance thread, most of them have been adressed in this mod. Rollo |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
FYI Rollo,
I am currently playing the latest Devnull Mod and my Sonne are very tough! They are at the top of the food chain! I am only at Turn 155 and I regularly see fleets of 50-60 superdreadnaughts and accompanying Assault carriers. I have played several games and the Sonne are usually at the top or very near the top. They make killer ship designs too. My game settings were large galaxy, high difficulty, mediumn AI bonus 13 players I also used Fryon's map generator. Also, when is the next update coming? This mod is too good not to keep it going. In the meantime, Thanks for all the hard work! |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Rollo, tks for feedback, usually High Aggressive, Med Bonus, however, when lst learning a new mod I usually use Low Bonus in order to learn the new additions. Also depends on what if any handicap I give myself against the AI players.
Current Game I'm using 2 Monster Races http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I'm a glutton for punishment... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif Currrent Game, Sonne in 2nd Place, no Super DN's or Dn's yet, they are still building slow, they ar at level 9 in ship construction, Turn 2419.3 Your right about the BB's, but you may want to re-look the time table the AI's use before buildiing the bigger ships,,, you know us humans, we like to walk soft and carry big sticks, the bigger the better and all that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif A human will build the big stuff as soon as he can, The AI then might be at a disadvantage if they have slower build data for the bigger ships... They have the Tech, just not building any right now... but on the other hand, I don't mean to upset the play balance as AI's with bigger ships might unbalance the Monster ships.. Will have to play some more http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif However, friend of mine has played the game 8 times and has seen the same type of observations.. I haavn't seen any big 50-60 Sonne Fleets yet, but that might be because they are fighting the Monsters ?? Any way, love the game, look foreward to your newest race addition you mentioned... PS. My friend lost the lst 5 games he played, the Monsters Schlocked him... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif also on some of the Ai's ships, I noticed 2 Master Computers, is this on purpose ? just some ideas Mac [ August 03, 2003, 03:41: Message edited by: mac5732 ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
as i said, dnm is one very well balanced mod http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
i enjoy playing it, on pbw too. |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Devin - thanks for the feedback. About the new update: I will not put a foot in my mouth (again) and give an ETA. All I say is that I am working on it (albeit slowly) and will be released when ready.
Mac - two monsters, huh? There is hope for you that they will fight each other http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . Unless you selected AI vs. humans, ofc... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif The 2 master computers is not intended. That is due to the latest SE4 patch and I didn't update all the AI for that, yet. It is already on 'the list'. Thanks for the heads up, though. Rollo [ August 04, 2003, 12:16: Message edited by: Rollo ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
so whats the deal with devnull4? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
who among you are in it? which racial techs did u choose? do we need any other 'rules' to disallow uncool 'gamey' tactics? |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Rollo, I noticed that the game doesn't seem to handle formations that well. It seems jumbled, I've been using double wall (SP play), and so far the formation doesn't work out, I always end up with a large group on a cornor other ships scattered. The Diamond shape looks to be ok, but the double wall, nope, is it only some formations that don't work right???
just some ideas mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Hi guys.. Sorry for the delay,
We will get devnull 4 rolling on 9/5. YOu this this week to join or get your empires in. Binford |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
*bump*
I decided to start working on the Mod a bit more again. A couple of pages down, I suggested new values for Incinerator Beam and Graviton Hellbore. I like to tweak these two weapons for the new Version. Your thoughts? Quote:
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Rollo, great, glad your back on the mod, the weapon upgrades sound good, make hellbore 2 turns istead of 3. also I'm past turn 200 in my sp play and found the following with the cuppa
They finally surrendered to me and I found that they still only had Research I Mineral Tech II Rads II Organic II only Lt. CV's ect It appears that the Tech Tree needs to be tweaked somewhat. They should have been well past these by turn 200+. They still had 30+ planets when they surrendered. Just thought I'd pass on the info... PS. The Sonne are up to 2437 ships in the game and own over 800+ planets. They are still in first place, I'm still 2nd... ) great game, so far close to 3000 planets in the game thanks to FQM.. I only have 457 planets 1400+ ships and still fighting the d... Flora ... ugh what tough b....... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif also don't forget to have the ai's build some monitors and super monitors...... just some ideas mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
IMO you should not change the firing rates of stock weapons, as it completely changes their nature (much more so than double/half to shields and tweaked damage values). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
I thought someone mentioned changing the firing rate of the graviton hellbore?
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
mac, glad to hear the Sonne are doing good, since I remember you had some doubts about them earlier.
Not sure what happened to the Cue Cappa. I agree that at this stage they were very poor developed. Perhaps they were resource screwed in the begining of the game and never got a foot off the ground. That can happen. |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
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true, Mac did. But GHB are ROF 2 anyway in stock game, not 3. |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
The cuppa had over 100+ planets far into the game, but never progressed in the tech, I don't know what happened but they should have been further along then they were, at the time of surrender they had 30 planets and most were resource rich and plenty of expansion room on the planets....
yep, I did have concerns on the Sonne with my lst game, however, this one is very different for them, the cuppa are basically the same as in my lst game. The lst game I played I didn't use an FQM, I think that makes the difference as it allows the AI players to increase strength and expansion as they have more worlds to colonize and or to build with the astroid systems which in turn makes them tougher, (don't forget to let them build monitors and super monitors ).... Just some ideas Mac |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
junt wanting to let you know that I have been working on the mod a bit.
here is a list of the recent changes: Version 1.71 (special thanks to David E. Gervais and dogscoff) 01.02.2004: * added more positions to Sonne formation * new AI for temporal races (Xiati, Sallega) * updates to Cue Cappa/Abbidon AI * raised retrofit costs (still cheaper then stock SE4) and raised Max Percent Difference * corrected typo in description of normal mounts * corrected typo in description of massive ship mounts * renamed 'Space Yard - Ship' to 'Mobile Space Yard' to avoid confusion with 'Space Yard - Base' * fixed typo with Temporal Space Yard Facilties, they now repair 10/12/15 components as per description * Reactive Armor is only allowed on Ship\Base to prevent exploit with Weapon Platform PD mounts * changed planets.bmp: facelift to asteroids (new pics by David E. Gervais) * added new asteroid portraits (new pics by David E. Gervais) * changed stats for Incinerator Beam (still needs playtesting) * raised damage for Graviton Hellbore, gave double damage vs. shields, and +20% to hit * raised tech cost for GHB to 10k * added new picture for monster drone by dogscoff * added Single Satellite Tube to make deployment of remote miners and spy sats easier in simultaneous games oh, and here is a little teaser. So, if you have bug report, suggestions, or balance issues, now is a good time. [ February 01, 2004, 13:28: Message edited by: Rollo ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
What is wrong with the SE4 asteroids? They look great to me.
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Rollo, you welcome to add in any of the new mounts from the latest mount modd Version.
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Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Thanks for that constructive comment, Fyron http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif .
Deathstalker, glad to do so. In fact checking out your mods are on my to-do list http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif . I am sure the mounts in DNM can use some revision. Hey, afterall it was your original mount mod that was incorporated into Devnull Mod, IIRC. Although I have to be careful about not fouling up the AI. I think there has been a request for a larger mount that increases range somewhere in this thread. Not promising anything, though. btw, updated that little teaser pic. Go, hurry, check it out now! [ February 01, 2004, 03:11: Message edited by: Rollo ] |
Re: Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion
Well the history log implies that they are now better than the originals... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif
I thought you were going to bed anyways? Do Vikings not sleep? Or do they sleep in their chairs? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif [ February 01, 2004, 03:10: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ] |
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