Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

The cargo ability allowing SYS on transport hulls is intentional. There are some other components that also benefit from that (supply storage, for example). This creates an interesting design choice, in addition to introducing SYS before cruiser-sized warships. That is, players have a choice between less capable (slower, bad combat ability) support ships at reduced cost, or expensive Versions with the same speed and ability levels as warships (minus the tonnage for the support components).

Unfortunately, the AI seems to have no ability to use SYS to any advantage, even if they can be made to build them.

...

As for JLS's questions about effects of the proposed computers change on existing games... it could be made so the AI would phase out the MC's. Human players wanting them would then need to research the new tech area to get them. It's not a very elegant solution, but it seems better to me than the alternatives I can think of at the moment.

PTF's suggestion about reducing subverter accuracy is another way to possibly help.

Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Noooo !

EDIT: I do not even think subverters need to get more disadvantages. They are very late in proportions tech tree, they just can be fired once per combat and there is still the disadvantage of a cascade effect. MCs have been changed more to a not wanted component for the important human ship designs (accuracy malus, bad defense, expensive), other than for a small base with not enough space in it I have not used MCs so far because of too many malusses. And I do not even think about using them to compete against subverters, there are better defense capabilities (long range weapons, faster ships etc.).

[ March 06, 2003, 10:39: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

I would support that idea of getting rid of the Psychic tech.......

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Also, yesterday I researched the EMC III and the EMC I-b, but when I clicked on the upgrade button in the design screen my EMC II went to the EMC I-b instead of the EMC III. I suppose this is a bug or something, cause the EMC III is far better than the EMC I-b.
Is it there any use for the EMC I-b other than the fact that they only take 5kt?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Are you playing the latest Version of Proportions ? I though PvK get rid of this glitch. Anyway, I think it happens with ECM III only, once you get to ECM IV, it should upgrade normally (I think)

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, I'm playing 2.53 with the 1.84 patch.
I'll get to EMC IV in couple turns, so I'll just not upgrade untill I get it. I have 5 combat designs to upgrade and there is not way I'm doing it by hand... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif .
You know, i'm one of those nutcase gamers that always keep the components in a design in order, like Bridge-Crew-LifeSupport-ShieldDepleter-MainGuns-PDCs-Sensors-Shields-Supply-Engines-Armor, so I would have to take the whole design apart to put the EMC III were sensors are suppose to be.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

By the way, one of the most wonderful things of Proportions is how small hulls remain usefull way after they become obsolete in the unmodded game. Its almost impossible for my little Empire to afford more than one of those Dreadnaughts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I used to play with 2 designs at most in the unmodded game because pound by pound a Dreadnaught was more cost efficient that any smaller ship, something I find completely unrealistic in a military vessel.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Agreed on the AI’s use of the SYS, remember PvK we spent weeks Last year, trying to get the AI to build on them other then hanging out at the home world, we came so close, just to find the AI also would build Colony Ships away from a habituated planet then sending the ship off to colonize with no POP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to separate “patches” what would that do to Multiplayer?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PsychoTechFreak,
If you would check out the Abbidon and Cue Cappa from Proportions races, you will notice I put Cargo Ability on their Mine Layers, Satellite & Drone launchers as well as other Support Ships. Allowing there use In ST, MT and Large Transports. AI uses them very well http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 06, 2003, 15:09: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Noooo !

EDIT: I do not even think subverters need to get more disadvantages. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I am with you here, PsychoTechFreak.

I also like the way PvK has the subverters fine tuned, as is now.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

For any one interested, I wrote this post Last year in regards to Space Yard Ships (SYS) in relation to some neat creative/inventive abuse’s.

-----------------------------------

NAV : posted May 20, 2002 01:17
Private
Member # 2879

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">~ Regarding Space Yards on cheap transports, in itself is fine, even though the AI does not make good/same use as Humans do.

But us crafty human players put a sat or mine Launching bay on it and bring it to our warp point, in 2 turns we build enough mines to stop any Incursion probe, in 3 more turns we have enough built and launched to probably stop the AIs entire Incursion. 5 more turns-we have enough mines from that Mine Fabricator built and launched, to stop the AIs Attack State sending it Back to infrastructure State to rebuild and try again.

Also goes on to say

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...3;t=005496;p=3

[ March 06, 2003, 16:10: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep. That would actually work out ok, IF the AI were better at using population transports, but there's no way for us to help that. So, better for the AI to just not build them.

[quote]...

Quote:

Perhaps there should be a set of optional patches which players can choose from to get the changes they want to deal with it. Yeech. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif PvK

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">In regards to separate “patches” what would that do to Multiplayer?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It would be up to players to decide which patches they wanted to use, if any. No perfect solution. A few semi-solutions with different side effects. Choose some or none.

PvK

[ March 06, 2003, 21:24: Message edited by: PvK ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Regarding the ECM upgrade choice, I had reasons for the way it behaves, but I don't remember the specifics well enough and can't look it up at the moment. The (b)(c) etc variations are not just smaller but also cheaper. At the earlier levels they are mainly good for smaller ships/units and such, but the later ones can be quite tempting. You always get a better bonus with the full Version, but it begins to get quite expensive, for not that much difference.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Aloofi. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

I've read this entire thread and I can't locate this tidbit of info anywhere:

It appears that, I can't upgrade my colony to a minor city?

So...
Could someone clarify the "city type" upgrade path?

Thanks to you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

- Cornelius Scarecrow

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

You can take a look into facility.txt under the folder "data". At the beginning of this file you find the families listed. It is only possible to upgrade an old Version of a facility with a newer Version of the same family:

Example: Build a minor city and (later on if you have researched metropolis or megalopolis) upgrade it to a better Version.

Facility Family:
A unique identifier for all facilities of the same family.
1 - Mineral Mine
2 - Organics Farm
6 - Intel Centers
7 - Distribution Centers
11 - Rads extraction
41 - Massive Planetary Shield Generators
51 - Solar Generator
52 - Crystal restructuring plant
53 - Energy Transmission Lens
54 - Cultural Centers
59 - Solar Power Plant
61 - City through Megalopolis
62 - Arcology
70 - Cities including Space Ports and Resupply Depots
160 - Settlement/Community (Rock)
161 - Settlement/Community (Ice)
162 - Settlement/Community (Gas)
170 - Agrarian Settlement through Ecosystem
171 - Agrarian Cultural Center
202 - Organics Generation
341 - Planetary Shield Generators (non-massive)
342 - Phased Planetary Shield Generators (non-massive)

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

How do you guys feel about an orbital fighter?
Several pages down PvK talked about doing something like this with a 10 Kt hull, so I got inspired to do a little test. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
I made a 10 Kt fighter, no tech requierment, with 2 orbital engines with only Combat Movement, with Cockpit, Life Support and small depleted Uranium changed to No tech.
Basicly, its a fighter that can only have 2 small DUC, but the small size makes it kind of valuable, since you can have in 120 of them in a Carrier that can only hold 80 of the small fighters.
I feel like it is somewhat unbalancing.
Do you think this extra unit is necesary?
I did it having in mind that a civilization that builds Frigates surely have to know how to build little tiny fighters....right?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Aloofi,
Are you talking about something similar to this:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or would it be completely different?

[ March 10, 2003, 17:34: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Or would it be completely different?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No no, mine its just an extra fighter hull.
I have the 3 regular fighters in Proportions that move normally and then this tiny fighter that only moves in Tactical Combat.

The Orbital Fighter is just like the Infantry Troop, a unit that can be built from the very begining without researching any tech.

.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Aloofi, I wanted to read PvKs Post...
This may be of help to me in my Tactical Fighter MOD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

But with a global search (orbital fighter) in the forom, it had no PvK hits? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

If you could lasso (quote) this post to bring it to the top, I would appreciate this!

Thanks! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 10, 2003, 19:15: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I couldn't find it. I know is in this thread. I remember he said that he might try to experiment with a 10Kt fighter with only Tactical Combat movement to make it avaliable from the start. I don't think he gave any other technical details.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I couldn't find it. I know is in this thread.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks Aloofi for your help, I also checked the thread here and could not find those references; either. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

[ March 11, 2003, 18:18: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

I dunno what thread it was in, but you can search cross threads for my Posts, and probably find it.

In short, I said that for the next major Version, I would probably re-work fighters, and make the first ones start out without terribly high combat modifiers or abilities, and unable to move out of the sector they launch in. I also mean to tweak their combat abilities in several ways, with the first Versions limited in several ways. Then players would have to do signifigant research to develop better combat abilities, and specialize in research for anti-ship fighters, anti-fighter fighters, long-range movement, etc. That would all be a big change, so the whole system would be replaced, rather than it being an evolution of the current system.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

That sounds like the 6+ Carrier, long range 3 wave fighter attack vs. AI Planet; Another way for the human to beat the AI grip I had; I Emailed you this PvK a while ago; along with some preliminary fighter design specs. For tactical fighter movement in AIC.
Don’t you recall?
Why, you like the Idea?
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Or is there an Issue here?
I hope not, it has been a long day, and I am tired… Between work and AIC.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

I looked for your reference here on thread again, PvK, I could not find it.

But I did find the complements you gave me here on thread, back in February and a few more, that I never seen before.

Actually, if there is an Issue, lets work out, and/or work on this Tactical fighter mod together, this way benefiting all that play the game.

Can you start a Tactical fighter thread, to kick start it, or shall I ?

[ March 12, 2003, 01:45: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It may be another example of threads/Posts disapper on this forum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif I too remmember that discusion about mini-fighters.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You don't think of the 1 or 5kT spacesuit-1man fighters, do you? I guess I had a brief discussion about something like this in an older proportions thread. I have investigated a test with 20-40,000 units in space which was utterly slowing down the combat.

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...3;t=007969;p=5

or

http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...969;p=4#000053

[ March 12, 2003, 12:36: Message edited by: PsychoTechFreak ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The problem with the Orbital Assault Infantry is that they cannot enter the atmosphera of a planet, so they end up being just like fighters, and if you use them as Space Marines to board other ships then you are not simulating the hull breaking equipment.
I guess we gonna have to wait for SE5 to have it right. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

PVK:

All though, we could not find your Post, I am sure it is out there.
However it would be beneficial to all, certainly less controversial, if you bring the original post to the front, PvK. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
Global [Search on these reference are not showing your post]
~~~
Guys.
PvK, has not mentioned the motive or intent was behind this post yet, it may just be to help make positive changes and additions for TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

AIC TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD. Basically, just moves in Combat movement Phase; And has the natural Anti-Ship, anti-fighter, anti-planet, fighter abilities that one would expect from a se4 Fighter, with nothing overly fancy?

My intentions for this Mod as with all AIC; was to help the AI be, on a level Playing Field with a human player. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

All AI Fighter designs, are 100 % JLS. All added AIC Fighter or revised components, are 100 % JLS.
Is this not true PvK?
~~~~~~

AIC TACTICAL FIGHTER MOD: Does not do what now, half what you just posted!
There are a couple good ideas in this post PvK.
~~~
My TFD, does not have from your post PvK.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">All are good ambitious Ideas.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

JLS, why don't you merge your Tacticl Fighter Mod with PvK's Proportions?

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would be an Honor, if PvK would do this.

With Pete’s experience, and our assistance; this could be Awesome. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

JLS,

yes I remember we discussed tactical fighters some time ago, and that it would help remove an advantage humans have against the AI (since the AI isn't programmed to move fighters around a system).

I think the Proportions 2.x fighters offer a reasonable balance the way they are set now, at least for human players. In the interest of keeping the 2.x series relatively consistent for upgrading existing games-in-progress, I wouldn't want to rework the entire system in 2.x. It might be an improvement to 2.x to add a new class of tactical fighters, with some sort of minor advantage (probably simply cost and maybe reduced research time - I don't think they should be more effective), mainly because this would add an option, and one the AI could use and get something back for not being able to use the system fighters.

I don't mind if you want to use my reworking of fighters in your AIC mod - the only obstacle is you'll need to wait for me to work out what the details are. I'm pretty busy at present, and haven't even had time to study AIC yet - I assume it is a refinement of the AI balance mod to Proportions which you showed me some months ago?

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">PvK, you can't keep holding back because of existing games. People that wants to keep playing an old game just need to not upgrade and that's all.
I would really like to see a reworked fighter model for the sake of realism, cause there is no way a fighter could keep flying around for an entire month.
Also, fighters should be at least twice as fast as the fastest ship in tactical mode. The way it is a Frigate can outrun a fighter in combat.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

I did a test with fighters that moves with speed 10 in tactical combat, and the AI didn't do the bombing runs as well as a human player can, flying 5 to target, fire, and fly back, but the AI did fly to the target, fire, wait for next turn, then fire again, and then fly back out of range of enemy weapons.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

Aloofi, I'm not delaying the release of new features because of existing games. I do think though that I'd rather not add much more to the 2.x series beyond fixes, and instead do 3.x or Foundations, and that will be a major project if I even have time for it.

The reason I don't want to just add small features one after another, is that I'm pretty happy with where 2.5.3 is, and if I'm going to devote a bunch more time to modding, I'd like to explore some of the larger ideas I have, rather than just add little things one at a time. The ideas overlap in some ways, so it would really be best to try to apply them all at once, instead of a bit at a time. Examples are the major changes I'm interested in making to the research system, mounts, racial tech areas, weapon abilities, and resource costs. I could make a fighter mod, but it would be more total work, because I'd need to make it work with the OLD system for all that stuff, and then go re-do much of it if I wanted to apply it to the new system. As I said, I'm happy enough with the way fighters work now.

Yes, fighters deploying for months sounds a bit much, but I don't think it's that impossible. A fighter squadron could pack supplies and even have some sort of "squadron space tent" or something so they could relax and interact while waiting for action. I think it's more likely than some of the other abilities some people have insisted should exist, like fast colonization of any planet from a single uber-device, computers that are better in all ways than the race that builds them, cultural development and scientific advancement based on industry and real estate on alien planets, or freeze-dried colonists.

As for increasing fighter speeds, first, I don't think you're correct that in general frigates are faster than fighters in Proportions. There are some tech levels where this may be true, but more research into fighters will let their combat speeds catch up and exceed most ships. A small fighter with quantum engines and mark III afterburners has combat speed 9, which is the same as a scout with quantum engines and gravitic drive III. Most ships are much slower than that, and those that are that fast are paying the price in small hull and heavy supply consumption.

I don't think I understand your premise that fighters should be twice the speed of any ship, anyway. Seems to me it's not unreasonable for a small ship specializing in speed to be able to keep up with a fighter, especially if it is using more than one technology to do it (gravitic + quantum), or the fighters have just been developed (ion engines and no afterburners).

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

I like Proportions a lot, and Peter (PvK), is a stand up guy...
With that said.

AI Campaign is a group of Mods that address some AI issues, not in Proportions but in Space Empires 4 in general, and we all know what these issues were and are.

PvK, you know from my Emails that SE4 with Proportions ; in my opinion and the opinion of many; is the best, SPACE Game on the market today.
That is why I wanted Proportion to be the Host for AIC.
This is going back to Last may 2002.

I look forward to the release of Proportions 3.0… I am sure it will be inspired.

And like you said you have not had time for distractions.
I too, when I was working on AIC, before its release.

As this relates to Fighters !!! Look we can’t even find your fighter post (now)!
I didn’t log in much then, so is it not possible it was missed by myself. You, really should bring that (unedited) post to the front PVK http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

In regards using aspects of your (“future fighter Ideas”). As you stated, I sent you the Email on the how the AI can get slaughtered with strategic fighter movement as well as sending you some of my fighter designs for AIC. Long before the release of AIC and its Fighter Tactical Mod.
There, is when you should have said you were at Issue with this.

I am surprised, you chose to Post this now. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
~~~
When I sent you that Fighter Email with my designs, you replied the next day:

“Yea, I used the in Foundations’ Then, went on to say what you had for Foundations"""".
Well, I never seen Foundations, but its files must have been real Huge!!! Because it seems, that any time somebody had a good Idea for Proportions, you said “all ready had the in Foundations”.

Actually, this is the same thing you said to me when I presented to you; “that I felt the AI was also getting a bum deal with having to use Natural Merchants Trait to be more efficient in se4, that if you put Resupply and a Space Port on Settlements and Urban centers; as well as, sending you my Design called MAJOR PORT that included resupply and Space Port”
Your reply was the same thing (“I used this in Foundations”)
Sure enough, my (JLS) Ideas were out on your next 2.x upgrade.
With the Resupply and Space Port on some Urban centers and The MP renamed Combo Facilities (which was my major Port design).

Fool me once http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
If you already had it in Foundations!?!
Then, why is it not here in, Proportions (NOW) after all these years???
~~~~~

This will not happen with Tactical Fighter Mod.
It is my Ideas my LABOR, not yours.

True, it needs to be tweaked (allot http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ) as well as Proportions (some); but still, I put your name on EVERY file that had the (slightest) programming of yours, please verify this.

I (we) do expect the same curtsy .

John

[ March 13, 2003, 16:38: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*Dogscoff curtsies courteously.

JLS, PvK has often told me that my suggestions overlap with foundations, but in these cases he has said that it overlaps with what he has planned for Foundations. he never claimed to have implemented it already in order to steal my glory.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">*Dogscoff curtsies courteously.

JLS, PvK has often told me that my suggestions overlap with foundations, but in these cases he has said that it overlaps with what he has planned for Foundations. he never claimed to have implemented it already in order to steal my glory.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree.
I never said he was stealing my glory!

As you can see; PvK, POSTED and implied that I STOLE his fighter Idea.
This is not true!

PvK has put a flame to our bridge, not I.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, PvK,

"Assume" Tactical Fighter Mod is related to the Email I sent you after Christmas 2002. As you just confirmed at the TOP of your post.

The AI balance segment that was started May 2002 and sent to you around Thank Giving 2002.

You, have never received the FULL Version of AIC.
(good thing; from what is being seen now)

[ March 13, 2003, 19:11: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Since you want to POST who had time to get what done in Proportions !!!

PvK,
I made time: to help you with your released Proportions; when the AI was just building Culture Centers on all colonies, ages ago.

I Had time: To help the AI to be more efficient with (resupply and space dock on there Urban Centers).
Designing and Emailing you the Major port/Combo Facility and some Race specific Urban Centers.

I noticed that you have had one of my Specific Urban Center designs that I Emailed you back then. You put it in Proportions Facility Data file, and you Still can’t get it to work with the AI???
(refer to AI Campaigns; Agrarian Culture Center, that is how it was to be done)

Now, I see you have My Colony Ship with (CARGO no module) design that I may have sent you Last thanks giving, with AI Balance MOD in your Proportions Vehicle Dat file.
What, you could not get that to work with the AI either? as with my Agrarian design.(Again, refer to AIC; that is how it is to be done and see a (*) with Colonizable. Planets!)

I made time: Getting your AI to Build and Utilize your STAR LINER !!! By telling you to add cargo as one there needed abilities. Then, I had to send you the Design, because you could not understand what I was asking you to do…

I made time: To help you with a Psychic race: Abbidon. Only to see you mess up by copying the GAS Abbidon AI, I made, to the ROCK Nat. Merch. CueCappa????

There are more countless improvements to help your AI in Proportions that I have Suggested to you, and I was not to "busy at present"!
~
IS the Armor Plating REALLY your Idea; or is it someone else helping you with that to?
~
Heck, you couldn’t even help the Proportions Player {Mottlee} with his Proportions Prob. the other day. Posting him you could not figure it out ??? send it to Malfador;
As well as asking Oleg and My self for help… At that time as you can see I was trying to cover your back, and not make you look ridicules and stupid since it was only a SIMPLE design flaw on troop weapons choice for YOUR Amonkrie;
by solving just the Problem and not Posting on questions what it was, by players. Also inaudibly suggesting that the UFP and Gron AI, could also be problematic.

Well, I guess I said, what I had to say.

I can’t believe you would post that I used your (Reworking Fighters ), based on what? Your IMPLIED (long past) POST, PvK.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

[ March 14, 2003, 01:28: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

When somebody has the solution for the world not requiring Oil any longer.

Are you going to say that was your Idea, because you were going to use it in Foundations?

Or you posted it as Etc. at one time, long ago?

Come on PvK.
Either have it in Proportions or not!

[ March 13, 2003, 20:08: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

JLS, cool down man, the Last thing we want to see is fighting between modders.
Aren't mods suppose to be public?
Just take Proportions and merge it with the AIC and the Tactical fighter Mod.
If you don't, I will.
I definitively want an improved fighter combat model with Proportions.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hehe, Aic IS the merge of Proportions with some JLC ideas http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm, I actually like current Proportions' fighters. Very balanced weapon selection IMHO. "combat-only" fighters would be a nice addition but overall it looks about right for me.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Ok, im cooled down!

My intent with the AIC Mods was not to improve Proportions;

But was to show that the AI can compete, with a Human Players with the Modifications I released with AIC and only with Proportions as the Host!
~~~~
This thing is of me (“REWORKING his fighter idea”???) did get me inflamed.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm, I actually like current Proportions' fighters. Very balanced weapon selection IMHO. "combat-only" fighters would be a nice addition but overall it looks about right for me.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree, Oleg...

There is nothing wrong with current Proportion fighters; they are pretty much the same as, the base se4 fighters.
~
But the premise, is that the AI can not defend properly against a Long Range Carrier attack on his home world! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

This was my reason for the Tactical Fighter Mod …
Fighters now move in Tactical combat only. On the Strategic map, when launched over a planet or any sector, they remain on combat patrol for that sector until recovered by a Carrier or your planet.

"(When you attack a planet, you will now need to commit your fleet and Carriers where the AI will be able to defend itself ) ouch!"

I also tried to address some stacking issues with fighters versus Ships.
And I have been getting a lot of positive response for this effort. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[ March 13, 2003, 21:17: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">AI can compete with your modifications as well as with AI bonus turned on in a non-AIcampaign game. You provide the AI cheaper components/facilities and a helping AI research tree. Well, I know it is a lot of work to balance everything out and I certainly do not have the modding experience to see everything about it, but this is easy to see (e.g. AI Wormhole opener components just cost 1000 minerals etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I like your ideas and it is certainly better in order to finetune the given AI bonus instead of just putting the bonus level to low/med/high.
I just don't like the statement "competing AI" if the reality behind it is a bonus in fact.

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

[quote]Originally posted by PsychoTechFreak:

Quote:

Don't get me wrong, I like your ideas and it is certainly better in order to finetune the given AI bonus instead of just putting the bonus level to low/med/high. I just don't like the statement "competing AI" if the reality behind it is a bonus in fact.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good Point, PsychoTechFreak.
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
I should have stated, with a leveler Playing field

[ March 13, 2003, 23:31: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This will not work properly. Fighters have a 1 strategic move minimum, even with no engines.

JLS:
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is not what I see having happened. It looks to me like you seem to think that noone has ever thought of ideas you have thought of before. This is quite wrong. I know that I for one had thought of orbital fighters and such back in 2001, long before you ever started on AIC. This is not to say that I was the first person to think of this. Actually, I never made any Posts about it at the time, so I could not have been the source of the idea on Shrapnel. But, my point is that other people have thought of ideas like this before you. PvK may very well have thought of them before you, or you may have thought of them before him. Do not be so concerned over "mine mine mine". I am certain that there are lots of good ideas in people's personal mods that have not been posted anywhere on the net. If it is a good idea, chances are that a number of people will have thought of it concurrently. Isaac Newton and... umm... I forget the other guy's name... but anyways, both of them developed calculus simultaneously. Neither of them copied or stole from the other. It looks like the same kind of thing has happened here.

[ March 14, 2003, 00:05: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

You make a valid Point, in regards to who thought of what first. Fryon. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

~
Actually, Fighters in Tactical Fighter Mod, do not move 1 in strategic move minimum, and do not have a command that would allow a move! Basically, just sentry and Fleet! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ March 14, 2003, 01:36: Message edited by: JLS ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

JLS,

if I had time to respond to those kinds of Posts, I would still probably mostly ignore them, and do something else with my time. I certainly don't have time nor any interest to pore over your entire mod looking for "my code" and checking where you gave credit or not.

Also, much of the reason I have continued to add so much to Proportions, is that so far the modding community here had been very courteous and sharing of ideas. If I mention that something someone is discussing is something I've considered or worked on as well, it's not to say, "I thought of it before you - nyah nyah" - it's for interest's sake, to show I was of like-mind, and to offer discussion of ideas I'm interested in and would like to see realized in a fun mod.

However, I think part of your ... concern ... here is based on a misunderstanding on my part, and a misreading of my post by you. As I wrote in my Last post, I haven't had time to look at AIC yet, and I was asking you if I was right that it was a refinement of your "AI Balance" Version of Proportions - I thought that's what it probably was.

Regarding why there is so much I had planned or partly done for Foundations, and why it's not in Proportions, I've explained that before in several places. Basically, I like to release things that I think are relatively complete and work well together, and many of these other ideas involve a lot of careful work to get right by my standards, and may be interrelated. Also, I think I've mostly done what I set out to do in Proportions, so if I were to invest a lot more time in modding, I'd want to do something besides just tweak things one at a time. I'd probably want to make several major changes at once, and that's not something I want to start by posting little bits at a time, which would have various unintended side-effects.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see you apparently upset.

PvK

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll have to see how you accomplished that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Hmm... more engines per move than they can get move points... beautiful.

[ March 14, 2003, 03:39: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think its just changing movement per engine to zero......