Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Pyrochette vs Sallega

The Pyrochette had not problems to defeat the Sallega before the turn 248.

Here the link: Pyrochette_vs_Sallega_C2.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, as I said that was like 18 months ago and the evidence was very sketchy... (so, no worries for not recalling http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ).
But what you describe is what I have seen also back then. An AI would only build one type of colonizer. I manually scrapped some of them and found that the minister would replace again with the wrong type.
I haven't seen that happen in a long time, so I assumed it was patched out during the upgrade to gold. Apparently it wasn't...
The bug seemed more frequent on maps that had not all warp points connected. I can only speculate here, but maybe planets that cannot be reached influence the ministers decisions (in spite of the fact that the AI should have no knowledge of them).

Rollo

[ March 24, 2003, 16:34: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Then, think I misunderstood you... or my neurons are really dying quick! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Could be, really I don't know the reason.
But the interesting is that if using the same map and same AIs, you start a game between the Aquilaeian and Gron, but exchanging starting sides, you will see that the Aquilaeian will have not problems to colonize, but the Gron yes...

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Fazrah vs Rage

The Fazrah defeated the Rage at the turn 267. They always had the inititative and won without problems (although the Rage used sun destroyers to kill some of their own invaded systems!)

Here the link: Fazrah_vs_Rage_C3.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

United Flora vs Earth Alliance.

The United Flora defeated the EA before the turn 200 and without problems.

Here the link: UFlora_vs_EA_C4.zip

It's pretty obvious that all the Mephisto's races are not performing so well like in the first contest did.
As Mephisto wrote, the map (with specialized systems) plus the "low bonus", are not good game settings for them.
Anyway, IMHO still think that for these races should be increased a bit, the maximum of refinery/farming colonies per system (see my explanation below).

[ March 24, 2003, 21:29: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Tessellate vs Orks.

A very interesting game (at least to me!).
The Tessellate expanded fast and started to attack the external Orks' sytems early. During the turns 120 to 170, conquered many systems and destroyed 2 Orks' homeworlds. Then, I believed the game would finish very soon... wrong! Somehow the Orks stopped the Tessellate attacks (don't think they could have done it against an human opponent, hehehe), and recovered several systems.
But, when the Tessellate's DN with Quantum Reactors started to attack, the game was decided.
The Tessellate won at the turn 280.

Here the link: Tessellate_vs_Orks_C5.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Namovans vs Khrel.

The Namovans offered a good fight to the Khrel, but at the end was unable to stop them...
The Khrel won at the turn 410.

Here the link: Namovans_vs_Khrel_C1.zip

[ March 25, 2003, 18:16: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

EEE vs Sallega.

The EEE defeated the Sallega at the turn 320.
The Sallega had some success in the early game, attacking the Aargau system, and later colonizing planets at Baksha and AAr.
But slowly the EEE changed the game to their side.

Here the link: EEE_vs_Sallega_C2.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

I just checked the EEE-Sallega savegames.
The fact that the AI takes the basic (and not the bonus boosted) resource production into account when it decides about colony types leads to many interesting results (to put it mildly).
All those nice research and intelligence compounds abused for mining and refining while the empire already is buried under piles of ore... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif
This bug reduces any attempt of writing a bonus using AI to estimated guessing (not very estimated but lots of guessing).
Has anyone reported it to MM?

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, I have reported it, but think would be good if you and others report it too...

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Will do it.
I never would have guessed that your contest will uncover such serious bugs. Obviously it's not only helpful for AI-modding but for the game itself. Hopefully Aaron will find the time to get rid of them.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

[quote]Originally posted by Rexxx:

Quote:

Will do it.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks. Aaron consider more fast to fix a bug, if more people report it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[quote]Originally posted by Rexxx:

Quote:

I never would have guessed that your contest will uncover such serious bugs. Obviously it's not only helpful for AI-modding but for the game itself. Hopefully Aaron will find the time to get rid of them.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, hope we will have a new patch... but because he's very bussy with their other projects, I can't bet that.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Aquilaeian vs Rage.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Rage without problems, at the turn 262 (but the game was decided a long time before this turn).

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_Rage_C3.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Toron vs Piundon.

Sorry guys, but just now, realized that have not uploaded this game...

The Toron defeated the Piundon without big opposition, at the turn 210.

Here the link: Toron_vs_Piundon_C6.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

CueCappa vs EA.

The CueCappa won before the turn 280.
Once more, was an unbalanced game. Is pretty obvious that with this game settings, the EA are the "shadow" of what they really are.

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_EA_C4.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Gron vs Orks

The Orks defeated the Gron at the turn 310.
The Gron had the usual problems to colonize (only 5 Gas ships), and because never were destroyed or used to colonize a new planet, the Gron doesn't built more colony ships. Around the turn 160 the Gron started to have their first Rock colony and near to the turn 200, some Ice colonies.
The Orks played a good game. Did a hole into the Gron territory and always had the initiative.

Here the link: Gron_vs_Orks_C5.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Narn vs Piundon.

Until the turn 100 was a balanced game, but at the turn 150 the Narn controled the Rove system, and was obvious that would be very difficult for the Piundon change their fate.
The Narn defeated the Piundon at the turn 359.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Piundon_C6.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Namovans vs Space Vikings.

The Space Vikings had not problems to defeat the Namovans. They won before the turn 180.

Here the link: Namovans_vs_Vikings_C1.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

EEE vs Pyrochette.

Considering the problems that the EEE had starting in the upper side of the map, I believed would be hard for them reach the victory.
I was right, but the EEE offered a very good resistance. The Pyrochette won at the turn 287.

Here the link: EEE_vs_Pyrochette_C2.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Aquilaeian vs Fazrah.

A good game. The Fazrah has the initiative during all the game, and won at the turn 450

Here the link: Aquilaeian_vs_Fazrah_C3.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

This is the first thread I look for whenever I come to the forum. Thanks for doing this!

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks for your kind words, Dralasite!

CueCappa vs United Flora.

For sure the CueCappa is a great AI... but starting in the upper side and fighting against the UF, they were slaughtered... The UF won before the turn 160.

Here the link: CueCappa_vs_UFlora_C4.zip

[ March 27, 2003, 16:04: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

I have two questions about the AI. They are not crucial I just want to know how the AI ticks. Being too lazy for any testing right now I choose the easier way of asking here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That would mean that the AI considers only the total cost of a ship when it decides how it should use the amount of net income above the maintenance threshold for construction.
I always thought (but never actually checked it) that it will take the construction rates into account. I would have guessed (using the numbers from above and assuming that there are SYs available with rates of 3000 rads per turn) that the AI will add ten ships ships to the construction queues.
I do not doubt Mephistos number's, especially after I realized that nobody else did http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif . I'm just curious and want to be sure.

I asked this already in a different thread without getting an answer. I just assume that nobody read it and try again:

Quote from the unit_construction-file:
On each turn, this file will be processed (if it exists), and units will be added to all planetary construction queues which:
1. Are not currently busy.
2. Those planets which have reached maximum facilities.
3. The amount consumed per turn won't reduce the empire's resources to zero.

In mid- and endgame quite frequently lots of planets met these criteria. Has anyone figured out how the AI decides on which planets it will actually built units? Which criteria are used for this decision?

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep, think the AI consider the TOTAL cost of the ship, then, agree with Mephisto.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Good questions... but I ave not clue. If you request my "guess", think is more or less random.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This is not a first time you mention that starting position affects the result. Is it possible to repeat the match with possitions reversed ? Sure, it is too much for whole tournament, but may be for Last rounds ??

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Already I'm doing this, and will continue from this round to the end.

United Flora vs CueCappa
=> United Flora won at the turn 310.
Cuecappa vs United Flora
=> United Flora won at the turn 160.

The first AI in the name of the game, is the AI that start in the upper side.

Edit: Oleg, thanks for your suggestion!

[ March 27, 2003, 16:59: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Gron vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate defeated without problems the Gron, before the turn 190.

Here the link: Gron_vs_Tessellate_C5.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Narn vs Toron

Like in the first game, both races signed a Military Alliance until the end of the game...
The Toron won at the turn 500 by points.

Here the link: Narn_vs_Toron_C6.zip

I'm starting to see that will need to play several tie-breaks... then here are my criterions (because can't play tie-breaks forever!).

2 games, changing starting places.
A) If one race reach the victory in the two games, will get the first place.
B) If every race won 1 game, then:
i) The first place will be for the race that won their game in less turns.
ii) If both races won with the same number of turns, then, will sum the points of both races in both games: the race with more points will be the winner.

[ March 27, 2003, 22:28: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Khrel vs Vikings.

The Vikings defeated the Khrel before the turn 150... seems we will have a new tie-break.

Here the link: Khrel_vs_Vikings_C1.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Sallega vs Pyrochette.

The Pyrochette defeated the Sallega without problems, before the turn 189.

Here the link: Sallega_vs_Pyrochete_C2.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That will minimize the effects of the colony bug as far as possible. The best solution under these circumstances.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

[quote]Originally posted by Rexxx:

Quote:

That will minimize the effects of the colony bug as far as possible. The best solution under these circumstances.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, think is the best we can do... but... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon8.gif

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Earth Alliance vs United Flora.

The United Flora defeated the Earth Alliance in less than 150 turns.

Here the link: EA_vs_UFlora_C4.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Exactly...

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Orks vs Tessellate.

The Tessellate defeated the Orks before the turn 180, and then, the next game between the Gron and the Orks will be decisive for them.

Here the link: Orks_vs_Tessellate_C5.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Piundon vs Toron.

The Toron needed some time, but won a deserved game against the Piundon.
The Toron won at the turn 290.

Here the link: Piundon_vs_Toron_C6.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Khrel vs Namovans.

The Khrel won by points at the turn 500.
At some point, believed the Khrel could defeat without problems the Namovans, but slowly the Namovans recovered their loses. Anyway, the Khrel won with a good difference of points.

Here the link: Khrel_vs_Namovans_C1.zip

Then the standings in the group C1 are:

Vikings 3 points
Khrel 3 points
Namovans 0 points

Then, will need to run a tie break between the Vikings and Khrel.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Sallega vs EEE.

The EEE defeated the Sallega before the turn 170.
The Sallega was unable to stop them...

Here the link: Sallega_vs_EEE_C2.zip

Then, the final standings in the group C2 are:

Pyrochette 4 Points
EEE 2 Points
Sallega 0 Point.

The Pyrochette and EEE continue to the next round.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Thanks to the devious mind of Nodachi http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif , the SE4 batch works on windows XP. But I could not get the installer to work.

So I put all the files from setup1.cab in a directory, and reinstalled SE4 to its default loacation.

Then indeed if you don't try to update anything from the SE4 Batch configuration, it is working.

It is probably the same for windows 2000.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Great!
To change the SEBatch configuration, you only need to change the values into fields of the file "paramete.dbf", using something that could change these files.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Rage vs Aquilaeian.

The Aquilaeian defeated the Rage before the turn 290.
Although the Rage offered a good combat, always looked like the victory for the Aquilaeian would be matter of time...

Here the link: Rage_vs_Aquilaeian_C3.zip

Also... the standings in the group C3 are:

Fazrah 3 points
Aquilaeian 3 points
Rage 0 point

Then, will need to run a tie-break between the Fazrah and Aquilaeian to determine the first place.

[ March 29, 2003, 20:45: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

EA vs CueCappa.

The CueCappa had not problems to defeat the EA, then, got the second place.

Link: EA_vs_CueCappa_C4.zip

The Standings in the group C4 are:

United Flora 4 Points
CueCappa 2 Points
Earth Alliance 0 Points

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Orks vs Gron.

Like the first game between them, was a very interesting game!!
The Gron had the initiative and conquered Aargau, and believed the Orks will have problems to resist. But slowly the Orks recovered and won the game by points at the turn 500 (near to the turn 700 they killed the Gron).
Is very interesting to me, because the Gron is a "combo" race, and in theory, they should have a great advantage in the final sprint... but no, the Orks won 2 times, after be in a worst situation and recovered in the late game.

Here the link: Orks_Vs_Gron_C5.zip

I had problems to run this game... once my computer crashed, other time, needed to cancel the process, because my wife needed to use Net2Phone.

Then, the standings in the group C5 are:

Tessellate 4
Orks 2
Gron 0

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

I guess Orks fight best with their backs against the wall.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, that was my guess, too.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">This link is for the match Toron vs. Piundon. Could you please post the Ork-Gron match, I'm very interested in the savegames. Just want to figure out what went so terribly wrong.

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

[quote]Originally posted by Rexxx:

Quote:

This link is for the match Toron vs. Piundon. Could you please post the Ork-Gron match, I'm very interested in the savegames. Just want to figure out what went so terribly wrong.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Oh sorry. Are so many games, then, time in time I do mistakes...

About why the Orks won, really I'm not sure. But one reason think was they used the stellar manipulation with success.

Here the link (I hope): Orks_vs_Gron_C5.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Piundon vs Narn Regime.

The Narn had not problems to defeat the Piundon, although they needed to wait until the turn 340 to claim victory.

Here the link: Piundon_vs_Narn_C6.zip

The standings in the group C6 are:

Toron 3 points
Narn 3 points
Piundon 0 point

Will run a Tie Break between the Toron and Narn

[ March 30, 2003, 20:40: Message edited by: Master Belisarius ]

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Vikings vs Khrel.

This was the first game to decide who get the first place.
The Vikings won at the trun 310, and this will make hard the things for the Khrel, because the next game they will start in the upper side.

Here the link: Vikings_vs_Khrel_C1TB1.zip

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

Khrel vs Vikings

This time, the Vikings had no problems to defeat the Khrel: they won at the turn 130, and then, got the first place.

Here the link: Khrel_vs_Vikings_C1TB2.zip

The final standings in the grouup C1 are:

Space Vikings 5 points
Khrel 3 points
Namovans 0 point

Re: AI DEATH MATCH 2
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problem. Without all your efforts there wouldn't be any savegames at all.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, they destroyed the Gron homeworlds. The only Gron system which had no system gravitational shield.
However, at this point (ca. turn 430) the game was already decided. The Orks had twice as many ships as the Gron (turn 255: 329 vs. 204, turn 355: 389 vs. 209). Very slowly that superior strength changed the course of the game. I guess the talisman protected the Gron from being buried much faster. (They still had a higher score for lots of turns but only because of resources/research etc.). However, at a certain point not even the talisman could help. The riots began (some colonies were lost but mainly the appearance of more and more Ork ships caused them). And riots equal being doomed...

A very interesting game affirming two former observations. My AIs don't use the abundance of resources provided by the bonus, at least not to the same degree as other AIs do. And secondly troops are crucial to prevent riots, which especially is true for the contest but for the "normal" game as well. I guess I can't help designing troops for my peaceful AIs... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif