Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

If they were poisoned or decaying, etc they should have disappeared at the end of the battle, with the usual stream of hp numbers or years above them.
They weren't mercs, were they? If the commander dies, I believe the mercs vanish.

Were they listed in the battle report as dead? The right number at least. If so it could be the battle replay bug, which does not necessarily depend on OS or version differences.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

None of the above is true. There were no special effects in effect. The fight was versus cave men and earth drakes. As I said, there were more than 10 units that were left on the map. None of them appeared in the province.

It is possible that this is another example of .. "the combat you see is not the combat that actually happened." Or, of course, it could just be a bug.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

:bug: or WAD?

Units with the "Never Heals" tag (i.e. the broken bone symbol) don't lose the health gained by a lifedraining weapon over time.

For example, say a non-"Never Heals" unit, like a Sleeper, wields a Wraith Sword, and ends a battle with 50 HP. Since his base HP is 26, he'll slowly lose HP each turn until he arrives back at 26.

BUT, if a GoR'd gargoyle wields a Wraith Sword, and ends a battle with 100 HP, he won't lose those HP as time passes. 10 turns later, he'll still have 100 HP (assuming he stays out of combat, etc).

Presumably this is because HP-overload-loss is included in the same "HP Reckoning" calculation that heals wounded units at the end of each turn, and "Never Heals" units are excluded from that calculation.

As an interesting side note, if the above Gargoyle is located in a province with a lab, it WILL lose HP as expected...this is because it's a magic being that heals only when a lab is present...thus it's included in the HP Reckoning, and there you go.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

What would be needed to submit an example of the movement bug? I have a situation where it's pretty clear that's what happened.

I assume .trn and .2h files from the turn before and after? Fortunately this is a llamaserver game, so I have all the old e-mails. Is something needed from the host as well?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

no that should be fine. what happened?

my most hated movement bug was moving out a group of stealthy raiders who were observing a seige. they were going to attack an adjacent province, but the sieger moved in a few troops from that province to reinforce the seige... so the game decided to have my stealthy army fight his whole seiging force... It was pretty dumb, and I lost a ton of van thugs :(

forces that were hidden should be exempt from the "which province do the colliding forces engage in" determination

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Essentially an entire army failed to move. They were just going one space. No battles happened in either territory. There were some stealth units carrying supply items with them that did move and were caught by patrollers. So it may be something related to that.

I don't want to post the files publicly yet, since it would reveal too much. I'm just making sure I know what to keep for later on.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

keep the prior turn's files as well

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Small issue: LA Mictlan's starting army consists of warriors (unit number 722), which have older Mictlan armour instead of the LA warriors (unit number 1545) which have Scale Mail cuirasses.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Thanks.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I have been trying some earth strong blessing for +4 protection with Vanheim and Eriu. However, it seems that blessing is doing no effect, defence stats remain unchanged while troops gain other bless effects like reinvingoration or atack, magic protection, etc (depending of the magic choices). Is this a known bug or I am missing something? Thank you all.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

The same applies to MA Mictlan, though I would have thought that to be a known bug. Perhaps not. The biggest concern is that the old warriors can't keep up with the new ones because they have map move of 1.

Also, while we're on the subject, LA Man's PD produces tower guards from MA Man, not the tower guards of the LA. These are substantially different units.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Are you looking at their protection, or their defense? If you're not seeing a change to the protection with a 9 earth bless, click on their protection stat before blessing, and then after blessing click again. There should be a change in the head/body values at least.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

You are right rdonj, I was looking defence, not proteccion. Nevertheless, proteccion is increased but blessing effect is not specified as 'Blessed: +4' so I didn't notice the change yesterday... :o

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

There seems to be a bug or bugs with hell power. CMB may be involved, but the bugs also transcend cbm.

A. Caster is a 2/2 vampire.

1. opponent casts a spell.
2. Vampire casts hell power. Fatigue 14. Only 2 blood slaves are consumed
3. Vampire immediately casts Summon Imp. (it seems out of turn) Fatigue is now 34. 2 blood slaves consumed.
4. Opponent casts a spell.
5. Vampire casts Hellbind heart. Fatigue is now 84. 2 blood slaves consumed.

These exact fatigues have been repeated a couple of times.
Vampire is never horror marked. No horror ever appears. Vampire gets no bonus to any physical stats.

Spell Vanilla CBM
Hell power B2 F300 B1 Fat 300
Summon Imp B1 F100 no change
HellBind B2 F100 no change

So I guess
A. I don't understand how the fatigue is 14 after casting Hellpower.
B. I don't understand how the summon spell is immediately cast.
For the fatigue to be 20, the only way for that to happen is for the caster to be a 5th level caster, or a boost of three (not 2 as in the manual). So, I'll presume that what hellpower actually does is give you an immediate boost on casting another spell.
C. I don't understand why *2* blood would be consumed for reinvigorate.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

2 Blood (base) + 2 from Hellpower +1 from extra slave = fatigue as 5th-level caster.

The other stuff sounds really weird.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Because maybe the bonus from Hellpower is being added before the fatigue is being calculated. BTW, gems and fatigue are tied. It's not possible that the spell requires only 1 slave in CBM, but has 300 fatigue. It's just a bug that the modded Blood slaves / fatigue values don't get shown in the spell infoscreen. It is really a B1 Fat 100 spell.

No idea either, sounds like a fluke.

Because mages are greedy, they want to prevent fatigue if they have the chance. If I have to cast multiple spells of the same type, and one of the later ones requires gems, I regularly give the mages a good deal of gems more so that they don't run out of them during the early spells already.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

the problem is the numbers don't work, lch.

the fat cost for hellbound heart is exactly what one would expect if one's blood level had been unnaffected by hellpower, let alone that the fat cost for the original casting shouldn't have been modified by hellpower already...

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Did you look at magic/drain scales in province where he's casting?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

LA Mictlan's PD also has the same problem as above. I assume therefore MA Mictlan also has this problem.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

[/quote]

But the point is, reinvigorate *removes* all fatigue. Makes no sense whatsoever to spend more gems for the same effect. I'm suggesting here that there should be a special line of consideration that when casting, do not use an extra gem to cast this spell.

To answer Don's question: These were vampires, fighting in Dominion. The magic scales were +1-+3.

But I'd say the spell remains seriously bugged - or at least different than the description. Vampires got no horror marking, no physical bonus - and no magic bonus for the duration of the combat - possibly it did get one for one casting.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Twiceborn & globals

If there is a unit with twiceborn who is killed but cannot return as a wightmage (its capital is in enemy hands), and who has cast a global - the global remains in effect.

Thread here: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=40520

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Reinvigorate does not remove all fatigue. The amount it removes really seems to depend upon the caster's level. It works well for blood 3 mages; it is basically pointless for blood 1 mages.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Well then things are weirder again.. Perhaps hellpower was doing something .. that vampire was dropping fatigue to zero or so close to zero I didn't pay attention...

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

More interesting results with hell power.

If a vampire is leading a communion, hell power almost acts as you would expect.

The vampire *does* get horror marked, does get magic boosts, does *not* get physical boosts.

All the communion slaves get horror marked, and get magic boosts, but also do *not* get physical boosts.

However, horrors showed up as soon as it was cast, and continued to show up, one each round (so much for a *chance* of it happening).

Fun amusing trick:

Invade with two vampires. One with troops, one hidden *without* troops.

Summon lamashtas, or horrors. Retreat the casting vampire. Or not if it is in dominion.

If the lamashtas clear the terrain - *usually* you would have a vacant neutral province, that you would have to conquer.

However, the hidden vampire will generate two vampire thralls.
As he has no troop type, they will default into the province --- captureing the province for you.

Cute.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Maybe Hellpower has that key that designates spell as having no effect on undead? Just a thought, but it can explain such...

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I have met an odd bug regarding Armor of Virtue:

Sometimes the commander will not automaically get Ritual of Returning Tag by doning it, and has to cast a buff in battlefield to make it appear.

Also, once a commander without the Armor still claimed its effect.

I cannot spot any reason and thus have to think it a bug. This could even be reason for the crash in one of my MP and I hope it get noticed.

Two screenshots to the case:

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Sorry I cannot edit my last tread now. Here is some further description:

1 The Air queen once owned Armor of Virtue, but I am surprised to see the effect remaining even after the Armor is removed.

2/3 The Demonbred entering battlefield without the effect,which only appeared after his first buff(holy avenger). I have also tried giving him script of attacking closest without buff, the Armor never saved him again in that case.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

That's interesting. I noticed in a game of mine recently, that a commander who had worn the Armor of Virtue for awhile in a castle, retained the Returning buff once it was taken off - and he never once entered combat with the armor on.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Have you ever sent him to a battle without taking any hurts？I remember it's after that my Air Queen retained the effect even after she had taken off the Armor.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

All these are known bugs with armor of virtue.

The first bug has to do with - if the commander moves, the armor casts the spell, but misses the square the commander is in.

So, if you have armor of virtue, you must hold the first turn, or cast a spell.

Secondly, yes, if you enter a battle, get the ritual of returning, and are not damaged that ritual will remain with you.

Thirdly, the armor of virtue will trigger even when the subject unit is not susceptible to that damage type. I don't know if its *all* damage types, but I know for example a diseased mummy will trigger the returning.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Yeah, thats my thought as well.

Anyway, I did check the reinvigorate spell. arch/et.al were correct that for a generic 1 B user - it does not remove all fatigue.


I consider that a separate bug, since the spell says it removes all fatigue.

But it does imply something about sabbaths/communions.
The effect reinvigorate, is applied to each slave, and then evaluated RATHER than
the evaluated effect is applied to each slave.

In other words: B5 casts reinvigorate. It cures 100% of fatigue. 100% of fatigue is not removed from a b1 slave; instead about 6 fatigue is. The same effect when applied to a b2 vampire.. removes all fatigue (I am not sure how much as the vampire only had 4x fatigue at the time). I wonder if the formula is b^2*6 fatigue.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Did you try Hellpower with a demon? I wonder if those will get the raised stats.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I tried it with an Onaqui and the game crashed. As it was OMGin the morning I hung it up.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Well like I said, in my case, the commander in question -never- entered combat. He had cast a Global for me, so I put the armor on him to help protect against assassins. Later I decided to move it to someone who was going to actually go into combat, and noticed that the first mage had the Returning icon on him.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

When cast by demons, it seems to work completely normally. The only thing that was different was they got reinvig (5). I've never noticed that before.

But other than that, yeah, added 20 hp on a 30 hp unit.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

As we were having a discussion on IRC about pretender/prophet HP's due to dominion, and as I don't see it listed in the bug shortlist:

According to the manual, "For each level of friendly dominion in a province a prophet and/or pretender gains ... +10% hp"

Actual mechanic: For the average positive dominion of this turn and the last (or the last two turns, for hp during a battle), the pretender/prophet gains +20% hp. (negative dominion is -10%, as per manual)

So if you had a pretender w/ 100 hp, and were in dom 10, and then moved to dom 4, and then attacked somewhere whatever the dom, your hp would be
100(1+.2*(10+4)/2)= 240 hp. Manual would lead you to think that you should have 140 hp (based on the previous turn's dominion, or whatever if the current battle location's dominion were to be used).

similarly, if your 100 hp pretender was in dom 5, then went to a dom -5 province, and then attacked somewhere, it would have, i believe, 125 hp.

Just to keep it consistent, ;) , Str and MR effects due to dominion are based on the current dominion of the province the battle is taking place in.

enemy dominion lowers hp by 10% per pt, as per manual.

also, of course, as is well known, right clicking on the hp yields totally incorrect numbers :)

edit: I like averaging the previous two turns as a mechanic, personally, but the +20%/dom seems excessive.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

meh, that formula works in simple cases, but is not completely accurate ;p

should have started a thread :)

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

arch, there is a thread (or posts) on this.
It documents, I think fairly accurately, the lost of bonus hitpoints due to dominion difference...

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

yes, of course people have speculated previously, but they have said different things, and none of them have been quite right.

"It documents, I think fairly accurately, the lost of bonus hitpoints due to dominion difference"

unless you have some specific post in mind, as would be indicated by the "It"?

Re: Bug Thread: Sea Father
 

I searched the short list and this bug thread, but saw nothing concerning this recruit-able unit so I have decided to go ahead with this post.

I was playing a game with a land based nation and conquered a sea territory. Upon site searching I found that the territory allowed the recruitment of a Sea Father W2H1. I built a laboratory and a temple then attempted to recruit the Sea Father, but I was not allowed.

I have not found a bug since the immortal demons w/twice born of long ago.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Define "not allowed", please.

Did he stay grayed out or could you put him in the queue but he never actually got built?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

by chance was unrest too high?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Zentar, if the province had unrest over 100, you can't build units until it's below. If there was less than 100 unrest but not enough resources, it will just take more turns to recruit it. But without definite information, it's no bug as of yet. I've never had problems recruiting Sea Fathers when I've found them.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

[Item]: The Black Mirror - if an Astral mage who has previously been Feebleminded due to being caught in a Mind Hunt attempt, they can still use the item to cast Mind Hunt, though they lack any magical ability at all (the item specifically states that you must be an Astral mage to unlock the Mind Hunt ability).

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I just uploaded a turn to illwinter where scales were not affecting research - and it apparently was an ongoing problem.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

WAD. Item spells can be used by non-mages, in battle and for rituals. That's why you give your stone spheres, the Black Mirror, and other stuff to Scouts. The description is misleading, of course, yes.

Was it your dominion or enemy dominion? And what nation were you playing?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Well, the turn I sent in was *no* dominion. Just +3 magic scale.
The turn previously, it had been 1 candle, my dominion.

Perhaps I can't complain; I didn't send in the game when it had one candle. The turn I sent in perhaps its (WAD) -but it is an interest codicil to note you don't benefit from positive scales in perfectly neutral domain too.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I am not too sure how the game interprets it, but you don't get the benefits from enemy scales, you only get the bad effects from enemy scales... :) Could have been the case.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

From my own observations, you also get no positive effects in Neutral Dominion. If you don't see a white candle, you don't get the RP. :(

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Here is a bug I caught yesterday. Files available if needed.

- my army sieges a castle
- one of my commander receives the order to storm the castle with a small force (just to sse what's inside the fort)
- 2 commanders receive the order to maintain siege
- the other commanders receive the order to move and attack an ennemy force at my south. The goal is to crush the ennemy reinforcements before attacking the garrison.

The result after the hosting is :
- the commander storming the castle does so (and is of course beaten). OK
- all the other commanders maintain siege. Not OK :rolleyes: