Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

ATM the only ship still having RCEs are the assault ships...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Rollo: Yes, there are limits to number of engines. The number depends on the size hull. There is also that standard movement line(s) (for each ship in designcreation). The regular files can be gotten from Rambie's site:

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

When I get back from the doctor's I'll post the Abbai, Minbari and shipsize files I have modified to get rid of the RCEs. The only one that is still a BIG problem is the assault (boarding) ship. Probably an adjustment to number of boarding components (breach pods) would fix this. Or add the data for levels of assault ships (heavy destoyer to cruiser?) with restrictions would fix it.

[ January 02, 2003, 16:13: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Rollo:

1041534166.ZIP

Some files I am experiemnting with to rid the B5 MOD of range check errors. Readme hopefully explains some of what the MOD does.

Update (sorta): got rid of the Abbai Assault ship RCE by limiting the Assault ship to size 300KT (was 300-500KT), now it has speed of 46!? :rolleyes"

[ January 02, 2003, 19:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I've experimented with a few diffirent backgrounds and I decided against it. The light on the vehicles would be the same as the background and produce a very dark vehicle. If I let the light shine from the front, the background looks downright ridiculous. Maybe I'll give them all backgrounds when I spot a nice one, but for the moment, black is the background color.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SO far, the only way I can get rid of the assault ship RCE is to get rid of the "standard movement" lines for that ship...

OR to have armor as an ability and get those magnifigant external cargo "armor" pods http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ January 02, 2003, 22:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I have looked at the files a bit and have a suggestion. Raise the desired speed, think desired thrust. So for a cruiser hull (10 thrust per move) that should travel, say, 7 spaces per turn, put a desired speed (thrust) of 70 and remove the standard movement lines.

One other question: how is the AI going to use armor? The armor components that I saw so far have no abilities that can be called for in the designcreation. If you want the AI able to use armor, I suggest adding a bogus ability (star - unstable, if that is unused yet) and put the following lines at the end of each design:

Misc Ability x Name := Star - Unstable
Misc Ability x Spaces Per One := 1

That should fill your designs with armor instead of engines, avoiding RCEs and placement of the (armor) cargo pods.

I saw that you already have a seperate design for many different sizes, which is good. Using desired speed as described above you should be able to make designs as you want.

Hope that helps,
Rollo

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was talking about engine limits for hulls. You know, like maximum of 10 engines for a destroyer or 20 for an LC or whatever. What I have seen so far all the hulls have a limit of 254 (just short of the RCE). But that's okay. Using desired speed as already desribed hopefully gives you what you want.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suppose that has to do with the modded vehicle sizes that you included in your zip. The values of engines per move seem way too low in that one.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I was talking about engine limits for hulls. You know, like maximum of 10 engines for a destroyer or 20 for an LC or whatever. What I have seen so far all the hulls have a limit of 254 (just short of the RCE). But that's okay. Using desired speed as already desribed hopefully gives you what you want.

Attack ships and carriers pretty much do ok. It is the "specialty" ships (assult ship, troop transport, ship builder) that seem to be the main problem.

Quote:

Originally posted by pathfinder: ...Update (sorta): got rid of the Abbai Assault ship RCE by limiting the Assault ship to size 300KT (was 300-500KT), now it has speed of 46!? :rolleyes"

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I suppose that has to do with the modded vehicle sizes that you included in your zip. The values of engines per move seem way too low in that one.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'll have to see what I can do with this per your suggestion in the post below this one.

[ January 02, 2003, 23:18: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Pathfinder, I know almost nothing of the B5 mod, but willing to help out with some AI issues.

concerning the cargo pods: the AI will fill up unused space in the designs with the primary components and the best armor.
Best armor is the component that has the highest tech requirement (sum of needed tech levels) and is furthest down the component list (of course having the armor ability as well).
The AI can be tricked into using a specific component by adding redundant tech levels and/or bogus abilities.

concerning the ship designs: I need more info on that. I know it has QNP. Is there any limit on the number of engines for designs? generally speaking it is always a good idea to make several designs for ships. it is very hard to come up with designs that work from 10 to 5000 kT and are valid for all tech stages.

Minbari defenses: i need the latest file for reseach, design, vehicle_construction and unit_construction to be able to help.

Where can i find the latest Version of this mod? also a short summary on the main features would be of great help.

Rollo

[ January 02, 2003, 12:06: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

RCes are gone. Gonna start new game to verify.... so far so good!

Thanks Rollo!

and bTW Val (along with others) is one who designed this. Me just doing the AI_designcreation and AI_research files....

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now, Pathfinder, you've done allot to keep things moving lately too... don't sell yourself short.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I agree with Rambie, you deserve credit too.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Well, I am glad I could help. Let me know, if you have any other problems.

I have one suggestion to use scout ships. That helps the AI a great deal. I noticed that you have a scout ship class, but that is an attack ship. In order to be effective scouts, they need to be attack bases.

Here is a design that I found working pretty good:

Name := Scout
Design Type := Attack Base
Vehicle Type := Ship
Default Strategy := Don't Get Hurt
Size Minimum Tonnage := 10
Size Maximum Tonnage := 100
Num Must Have At Least 1 Ability := 2
Must Have Ability 1 := Solar Supply Generation
Must Have Ability 2 := Planet Value Change - System
Minimum Speed := 1
Desired Speed := 5
Majority Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Majority Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 1 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 2 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 3 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 4 := 0
Secondary Weapon Family Pick 5 := 0
Shields Spaces Per One := 0
Armor Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Majority Comp Ability :=
Secondary Comp Spaces Per One := 0
Secondary Comp Ability :=
Num Misc Abilities := 2
Misc Ability 1 Name := Solar Supply Generation
Misc Ability 1 Spaces Per One := 100
Misc Ability 2 Name := Standard Ship Movement
Misc Ability 2 Spaces Per One := 1

------------------------------------------

Include that in the early stages of construction. Something like this:

AI State := Exploration
Num Queue Entries := 10
Entry 1 Type := Attack Base
Entry 1 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 1 Must Have At Least := 1
Entry 2 Type := Colonizer
Entry 2 Planet Per Item := 0
Entry 2 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 3 Type := Attack Base
Entry 3 Planet Per Item := 100
Entry 3 Must Have At Least := 2
Entry 4 Type := Colonizer
Entry 4 Planet Per Item := 50
Entry 4 Must Have At Least := 4
...

Attack bases are not included in fleets and do a great job in exploring.

Rollo

[ January 03, 2003, 16:21: Message edited by: Rollo ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Rambie/Timstone: Hehe, what I tried (and I guess failed) to say is..yeah me doing the AI_designcreation the DESIGN itself is mainly Val's (and several others). My concern, such as the standard movement lines is that those are a major part of the overall design and serve a purpose that I have no idea why that is included...

still trying to figger out a bogus ability thingy to get armor added http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW still no RCes. Not going to call the fix done until I get to level 12 propulsion & dreadnoughts tho...

[ January 03, 2003, 18:45: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

*Da path does a back-flip and promptly injures his fat old self http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif *

Got the AI to use armor...wheeeee. no bogus ability either, just setup armor ability for the armor http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

now to figure out how to limit the number of structural supports to a reasonable number (per hull?). darn things cost no hull space to be taken http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

[ January 03, 2003, 20:32: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

sorry to intrude, but could i request a posting of the mod? I can't seem to find it here (granted i didn't read all 2500 Posts though).

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Skulky: The basic MOD can be found at Rambie's web site:

http://www.xmission.com/~rstulce/B5Web.htm

The are several drawbacks to the basic (RCEs due to engine/hull match-ups [QNP]). I have a fix for the most common RCE but have not updated all the AI yet. So use the basic if you want but realize it has a major drawback. Also the current "official" Version is for 1.49 (non-gold). There are a coupla guys working on making a Gold Version but not sure where they are with it ATM.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Have completed 3 games to 200 turns with the Gold mods.

As the Minbari, I was pretty much on the way to victory in 200 turns. The Ai doesn't seem to get population to the outlying planets fast enough to get around the production limits (and this is especially important - even more so tha getting around the build limits). thus, no one's planets under the AI seemed to be producing more than 50% of the available research points.

In the EA scenario, the EA didn't seem to be getting the rapid-fire missiles. I'm still looking into that. Perhaps its just as well - missiles that reload in a turn seem pretty powerful! OTOH, the Minbari and Shadows were ripping up EA ships with their long-range weaponry.

With the shadows, I shadow-danced to total victory in just under 200 turns. The living AI, molecular weapons, and bio-engines made them simply unbeatable even two or three ship sizes down. They make much better oponents than human players.

A consistent problem was the lack of speed for the AI-designed ships. I tried to mod the engines in the components files to produce "small" "medium" and "large" engines of each type to get the AI to invest more in speed, but while that worked for combat ships the AI continued to produce colony ships and transports with speeds of 2 to 4. Meantime, the ideal speeds were in the range of 12 to 20.

AI satellites also didn't seem to use "large" and "huge' weapons much. Maybe I just didn't play long enough - those big satellites cost a bunch of research to produce, but BOY is it worth it!

Lots of fun in the early game, though. The Shadows START with the ability to build speed 20 armed scouts. WHOOHOO!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Grumbler: Yeah, ya gotta go for the long term for the "young" race AI to get neat stuff and late model engines to get their speeds up. They still don't get quite what the "ancients" get....

Then again the "ancients" can't colonize...except thru invasion or gifts....*shrug*

[ January 04, 2003, 17:44: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hopefully I'll be able to finish the new AI by tommorow, latest Sunday evening.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Grumbler,

If you want, send me the Gold MOD and I'll post it on my site for downloading. I get many requests for the Gold MOD.

If you'd like help with the Gold MOD let me know, I'd like to help if I can.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Weeeeeee.....
finally got at the AI_designcreation up to speed so to speak. now for testing....

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

You guys, the 30 MB on uploads to Shrapnel is 30 MB per _file_, not per user. So, there is no reason why the mod can't be uploaded here. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The ideal speed is "number of standard movement points", which then gets divided by the engines per move to get the final velocity.

If your colony ship has 3 EPM, you need a desired speed of 60 in order to get a final speed of 20.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lookie, I already Upped it to the serverm no need to search further. Well okay, a visit to Rambie's site is always good.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

grumbler: I found that the only way to survive the Shadows was to have the Harm Missile. This has a starting range of 13 and has the effect of disrupting/stopping the Shadows weapons from firing. You can then try to box them into a corner for boarding. I found that AI combat usually resulted in a loss for EA. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

You get this missile by researching Earth Alliance Medium Weapon? Coupled with the Long Range Missile makes for very effective basic War Ship. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon6.gif
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif PS Anyone heard from Val http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

[ January 04, 2003, 19:21: Message edited by: Nomor ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ: Problem has been with the standard movement point statement and advanced engines plus large hulls RCEs were the result, especially the specialty ships such as the assault ship, super carrier...No matter what I tried RCEs resulted OR speeds were up around 45-50 for battleships http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Right now I have a problem with the external cargo pods. Val gave them an armor ability and until armor is researched they fill up the attack ships (taking up valuble weapon space).

also how does one get the AI to take a component that has no space/mass value (ship supports)? If I give them an armor ability they fill the ship (no end found)..

[ January 04, 2003, 19:29: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

RCE's are generally caused by high speeds.

Have you tried removing the misc ability call for "Standard movement" and using only the desired movement line?

Desired movement := (real desired speed) X (Engines Per Move of this hull)

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They need to be assigned a "useless ability" (definitely NOT the armor ability; that will totally screw it up)

If you add Facility abilities, "star - unstable", etc...
Then you can call for some of them in the misc abilities.
Spaces per one of 10, should then add 100 of them on a 1000kt ship, I believe.

[ January 04, 2003, 19:55: Message edited by: Suicide Junkie ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I downloaded your Last file and now QNP is not working it's gone back to normal space empires where 8 engines will move any ship 4!! this means that colony ships are going 6 as the start insted of 2!

Have u done this on purpose to sort out all the RCE's or has something gone pearshaped?

I've also noticed in my games that the ai does very little population movement, which is somthing that is very important in this game due to the large effect the population has on construction on a planet

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ: Yes, that is what I just finished doing and now testing. Only at turn 40 so I have a ways to pla... er test http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif I imagine there may be some tweaking of both the desired movement and epm values but I'll defer that until I get 300-400 turns into this mess I have the EA in atm http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Jamarobo: Talking to me? I have not uploaded my latest changes. One's posted a day or 2 ago were mainly for those interested (E.G. Rollo) to look at them (Abbai & Minbari, shipsize & components) to give me some advice on how to get rid of the RCEs. Hehe, those were some crude mods I was doing to get rid of the engine/hull RCEs we were seeing..

[ January 04, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ: http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif that baloney ability worked for the structural supports.

*groan* back to the MOD design salt mines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Run away, run away....

The Shadows are coming! aaiiieeeee.....

only at about turn 150 or so and those *&^%$# already have battleships with heavy molecular slicers ( range of 13-14?) and armor (top shelf inert).....

poor EA only have Lt Cruisers, slow engines (speed 5 in LT Czr) and that combo laser/pulse cannon (range 3) and low end inert...

and I need a brewski http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ January 05, 2003, 03:37: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The only reason I didn't put the ability into the armor, was because I didn't know which ones would be available.

There are a limited number of abilities that have no effect on component, and I didn't know which ones were going to be used where http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ: The first passive (reflective?) uses emmissive ability so no problem there...

using armor ability (in inert armor) only a "problem" at start because that external cargo pod also uses it as an ability ... *shrug* The EA lived thru the first few battles (with Llort [neutral]) without too many losses http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Here's one for ya: Shadows (me) put a 1-pdf multicutter (good against ships/fighters/sats) AND a Heavy Multi-phase Cutter on a Large Colony ship....

Nasty surprise for enemies at warp point http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Should I arm large colony ships via the AI_designcreation? If so, which races (all, some, which?). How heavy/big a weapon (pdf are already designed in)?

BTW yes, the Volons & Shadows CAN get colonization tech. They have to research it (Volon/Shadow race Lvl 2 and/or B5 Ancient Race 2 THEN research rock colonization AND have parameters set up in AI_designcreation) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ January 05, 2003, 23:05: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

hmmmm.....

trying to figure out what weapons to put into the ships to counter the Shadows. Harm missiles for the EA (secondary weapon batteries)....have to look at races to see if they have/can use ballistics

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmmm. Are the AIs putting multiple "primary" armor components on then?

The "primaries" have about 5x the ability amount, compared to the "additional" armors, so that larger ships don't have WAY more crystalline ability than the small ships.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ; Most I have seen the AI (Vorlons) put on is 2 "primary" passive armor the rest are inert armors of various sizes (uses largest then fills in with light). They have not researched further to get the "additional" passive armors.

Update: The only ships using the double passive primary armor are the Vorlon frigate and Vorlon troop transport. at least so far in the game. The Vorlon capital ships only use one passive armor rest of armor is inert armor.

[ January 05, 2003, 15:21: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

What does the following error message mean?:

AI designcreation---

"Could not find field "Name" in record "Jump Gate"

I checked that entry in AI_Designcreation for the Hyach (#5 in my current test) and don't see what is wrong with it...

Update: Never mind *grumble* Had a typo in the "record" before that (satellite) ....

[ January 07, 2003, 02:01: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Multiple Primaries are technically cheating, but in this case, I don't think it really matters all that much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

SJ: Yeah, wonder what I can do to stop it. Tho' it may not be worth the effort. hard enough to get it so the AI would use it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ January 07, 2003, 03:54: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is only meant for games of all Ancients. For games with Younger Races, the Ancient races should not research Colony Techs.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Ok, tommorow, barring incident or accident I should be able to organize, zip and post the AI for those who want to test it.

I have run it through and at least the there haven't been any RCEs on my Last two (200+ turn) games.

Be sure and read the readme! I'll put in what I have changed (data [vehiclesize], designcreation and research) for all the AI.

[ January 07, 2003, 04:27: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is only meant for games of all Ancients. For games with Younger Races, the Ancient races should not research Colony Techs.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Now how am I to set that for the AI in their AI_research file? No way I can differentiate that for single-player. All or nothing...

[ January 07, 2003, 04:29: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Another question (probably gonna shoot myself for asking): What 2 races techs should be researched for the League of Non-Aligned Worlds (LNAW)?

Mine would be Abbai and Pakmara or Abbai and Gaim.

Why just 2? Because Da path don't feel like trying to fit more than that in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Unless of course some other suc...uhm highly intelligent and motivated MODer wants to step forward and do them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif hehe...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I'm back .... will try to play the games' first turn tonight when I get home.

On the subject of race abilities to give the LNAW, if you give them Gaim then you also give them the best Boarding Parties in the game and first hit armor - just something to bear in mind

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

1041989240.ZIP

Latest B5 AI from the salt mines http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif . Hopefully the changes to the AI_designcreation will prevent any further Range Check Errors. Also added in structural supports and armor.

Addendum to readme: I forgot to add that that I deleted the "standard movement" entries from each ships description in AI_designcreation.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hey Pathfinder,

How its going lately in the old salt mines.
Any idea when PBW B5mod game would start?
Also, anytime you want to tried a CMBB game on the side, time permitting please email me.

Happy New Year to all B5modders
Lighthorse

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It had already started, but there were a few problems with bad empires, so we were going to restart. Then, PBW went down. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I'll start testing your new AI files after I get the first turn game to work. Did you find a way to fix the Hyach Laser problem that I reported before going away?