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-   -   STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=9755)

TNZ April 21st, 2004 03:34 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Thanks Atrocities, I agree with your plan for the monster Borg. If anyone else wants to use the monster Borg, they can. One small thing: I think I made an error while making the AI General file. The Adv Traits may be in the wrong order. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mottlee April 21st, 2004 04:38 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Atrocities:
All Good Things Come To An End.

The death of one thing is the birth of another.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Darn!!!!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif Great mod, and just how dose everyone test the mods so fast? I can not play that fast but I start from the bottom and work up.

von_toaster April 21st, 2004 11:47 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
I wasn't able to go through the entire thread of this discussion, but I wanted to know: is that normal that the Klingon Advanced Cloak II (prevents level 6 for all detection mode) is better than the Romulan Advanced Cloak II (which prevents level 5 scans)?

Doesn't seem right.

[ April 22, 2004, 01:21: Message edited by: von_toaster ]

BlackRose April 23rd, 2004 03:12 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by von_toaster:
I wasn't able to go through the entire thread of this discussion, but I wanted to know: is that normal that the Klingon Advanced Cloak II (prevents level 6 for all detection mode) is better than the Romulan Advanced Cloak II (which prevents level 5 scans)?

Doesn't seem right.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Intentional, (I asked about this earlier actually!) During the dominion wars Romulan Cloaks were detectable while Klingon ones were not thus the Klingon cloaks are considered to be more powerful in this mod.

It has nothing to do with Atrocities love of the Klingon race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ April 23, 2004, 02:14: Message edited by: BlackRose ]

BlackRose April 23rd, 2004 03:12 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion *DELETED*
 
Post deleted by Suicide Junkie

Atrocities April 23rd, 2004 03:48 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Thanks BlackRose for helping. Also the Klingon cloak can be beaten by one component. Finding it should be easy enough. Hint - Gravitational

Tnarg April 25th, 2004 05:34 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Has anyone made any EMP files for the neutrals or minor races. I am trying to plug a few into a single player game of mine.

Fyron April 25th, 2004 08:33 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
If you can even make neutral AI empires...

You can make them yourself easily. Start a new game, and have no normal AI empires, just neutrals. Set number of AI players to high, set racial points to whatever you want. Add an empire for human players. Then, hit start game. After it is started, go to the Options menu, then Players. Toggle all AIs to human control (the only option in there). Hit end turn. Save empire file of AI one, and so on.

You can do this for regular AI empires fine, but I am not sure if you can even have empire files for neutrals. You can not select a "neutral race" shipset when creating an empire...

Tnarg April 25th, 2004 09:51 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
If you can even make neutral AI empires...

You can make them yourself easily. Start a new game, and have no normal AI empires, just neutrals. Set number of AI players to high, set racial points to whatever you want. Add an empire for human players. Then, hit start game. After it is started, go to the Options menu, then Players. Toggle all AIs to human control (the only option in there). Hit end turn. Save empire file of AI one, and so on.

You can do this for regular AI empires fine, but I am not sure if you can even have empire files for neutrals. You can not select a "neutral race" shipset when creating an empire...
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks!

Atrocities April 25th, 2004 11:51 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Tnarg:
Has anyone made any EMP files for the neutrals or minor races. I am trying to plug a few into a single player game of mine.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No need. Normally the game does it very well.

Atrocities April 26th, 2004 10:16 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Here is the latest info on the next update.

Quote:
Star Trek Mod v1.7.3

1. Fixed - Breen General file error
2. Replaced - Component file with correct one and not the old one.
3. Changed - Structural Integrity Field I - V Tonnage Structure (5,10,15,20,25)
4. Added - Klingon Weapon Mount for use with medium sized ships.
5. Changed - AI Default Design Creation file - Fine tuned so that Ai will design larger ships with more movement
6. Changed - All Minor races Defualt Ai design Creation file to new format
7. Removed - KAtarians file (You will need to do this manually if you have it. (kAtarians not Ktarians)
8. Fixed - Error in Dominion Warhead Mount (Thanks Aiken)
9. Fixed - Level error in 8472 facilities (Thanks Aiken)
10. Added - Description improvement for weapons with modifiers (Thanks Aiken)
11. Added - Ability Generate Points Intelligence to both Federation and Romulan Sensor Arrays
12. Added - Heavy Laser Mount for Laser Beam I - V
13. Changed - Increased the seeker speed of Capitol Ship Missile I - V from 6 to 8
14. Fixed - Error in Plasma Torpedo IV - V
15. Changed - Pirate Hull Armor to match new armor ability (Reduced)
16. Added - Mini - Storage Compartment (1kt)
17. Changed - Name of Wormhole Beam I - III to Sub Space Beam I - III and changed damage to Disrupt Reload Time
18. Fixed - Description error in Massive Planetary Phased Shield Generator I - II (Thanks BadAxe)
19. Changed - Beefed up Tholian Energy Web I - III (Thanks BlackRose)
20. Changed - Tholian Sensor Refractor I - III Gave them a higher to hit defense %
21. Changed - Base Mount damages. All are correct now. (Thanks Aiken)
22. Added - Tholian Energy Mount II (TEM2) for use with smaller Tholian ships
23 Changed - Tholian Energy Mount to Tholian Energy Mount I and made minor modifications.
24. Fixed - Error in Federation Sensors V
25. Changed - Reduced the cost of Mini-Storage
26. Added - Shield Regeneration to 8472 Bioelectric Field I - X
27. Changed - Increased range and damage of 8472 Neural Disrupter I - III
28. Changed - 8472 Quantum Singularity Beam I - III Reload rate from 1 to 2, increased tonnage, and weapon target to Ships/Planets only.
29. Added - Shield Depleter Mount. (125% Damage)
30. Changed - Romulan Plasma Projector I - V Weapon Target from Ships/Planets to Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
31. Added - Romulan Plasma Mount (For use with Romulan Plasma SEEKERS)
32. Changed - Warrior Technology cost from 80000 to 65000.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">The update is on track and should be out soon. Please if you have any bugs to report please let me know ASAP. Once this update is out <font color=red>I will not be doing another regardless of any bugs, errors, or other posted unless directly related to the update itself.</font color>

Seik April 26th, 2004 05:32 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Hi there,

I ve a question about the armor Ratings - why is armor so weak (damage resistance)?

Specifically the Borg Regeneration Armor - it has Damage Resistance of 7.
But one of its abilities is to restore 30 damage points?
Am I wrong or will this only happen when the enemy uses armor skipping weapons?


btw: keep up the good work - its the best MOD !!!

Aiken April 26th, 2004 06:48 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Yes, Armor III (leaky!) with tonnage of 10 and dmg resistance of 6 is very unusial. It has one of the smallest chances to be damaged amongst other comps (most part of viable comps have greater dmg res).
Compare it with shields: 700 hp for size of 40 kt at lvl 10.

Iansidious April 26th, 2004 10:45 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by BlackRose:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by von_toaster:
I wasn't able to go through the entire thread of this discussion, but I wanted to know: is that normal that the Klingon Advanced Cloak II (prevents level 6 for all detection mode) is better than the Romulan Advanced Cloak II (which prevents level 5 scans)?

Doesn't seem right.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Intentional, (I asked about this earlier actually!) During the dominion wars Romulan Cloaks were detectable while Klingon ones were not thus the Klingon cloaks are considered to be more powerful in this mod.

It has nothing to do with Atrocities love of the Klingon race http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Funny I came to this topic to ask that very question! The answer does make sence. Should have never doubted Atrocities. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

Atrocities April 27th, 2004 04:11 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
The armor was stepped down and made on par with the reduced weapon damage.

I will double check the Borg settings and reduce them as well.

Basically armor should never be stronger than shields and should not provide that much protection. In star trek shields are the primary defense not armor. Armor is only mentioned on the defiant and really no where else except Enterprise. So armor is an earily use component but out dated by shields.

Fyron April 27th, 2004 06:41 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Leaky armor MUST have more hit points than average internals, or else it will be hit after the internals most of the time. 6 HP is not enough by far. Maybe 60. Keep in mind that shields are a lot stronger than leaky armor, as they provide a barrier that must be penetrated before real damage begins to occur, whereas the leaky armor does not provide this 100% wall. It should generally have more hit points than shields provide because of this and the way that damage to components is assigned (components with more hit points have a disproportionally greater chance of being randomly selected to be damaged when a ship suffers damage), or else it is far too weak.

[ April 27, 2004, 05:42: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Atrocities April 27th, 2004 11:10 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
When I left the armor with the high hp, it was far to powerful and not providing the effect of leaky armor that I wanted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif I simply could not get it to work correctly as leaky armor. So I reduced it to its current value and now armor seems to work ok. My not be true leaky armor, but at least it is working.

Perhaps in SE V we will have true leaky armor.

Aiken April 27th, 2004 06:32 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
I see what is going on. Atrocities has his internals set to less to usually 1 or 2 HP per 10kT component. This is likely the reason why his previous armor seemed too powerful since the chances of hitting an internal through the leaky armor was remote simply based on chance.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That is true for only one type of components - Vehicle controls, and maybe Engines, but most part of other viable components have normal damage res.

Captain Kwok April 27th, 2004 07:07 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
I only took a quick peek, but if that is the case, then it makes most of the armor in this mod worse than filling your ship with a cheap component to absorb hits.

I can take a closer look tomorrow night once exams are done with for the year!

[ April 27, 2004, 18:08: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Atrocities April 27th, 2004 07:33 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Ok, give me a solution that I can use and it shall be employed.

I have considered bumping up Armor to these levels.

Armor I - III 10/15/20
Emissive Armor I - III 15/20/25
Scattering Armor I - III 15/20/25

Federation Ablative Armor I - III 10/15/20
Borg Regenerative Armor I - III 10/15/20
Breen Organic Armor I - III 10/15/20
Cardassian Kelindide Armor I - III 10/15/20
Dominion Varethiel Armor I - III 10/15/20
Tholian Crystalline Armor I - V 10/10/15/15/20
Pirate Hull Armor I - III 10/15/20

Atrocities April 27th, 2004 07:38 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
So I need to lower the other components structure in order to bring the Leaky shields back into play and keep the Armor values where they are currently?

/me blinks twice and takes a deep breath.

Well ok.

Atrocities April 27th, 2004 07:39 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
What would be a good average for tonnage structure? 10% of current? (300 would become 30)

I looked at the file and most of the components are 20 or less in tonnage structure with many being 5. If I were to drop those that were 20 down to 5 or even down to 10 would that help?

I have play tested the mod and the current settings work well. Armor gives a solid bonus (Hit before any other Component) and the SIF also shores up the ship well.

The negative and offensive side of me wants to yell at you for suggesting these changes so late in the game, but that is most likely because I am tired.

Please just take a look at the component files and offer a good alternative that can be use. I will send the current and new armor spec files to both of you for review if you have the time.

Thanks.

/me Goes and yells at the wall.

[ April 27, 2004, 19:02: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

Captain Kwok April 27th, 2004 09:37 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
If you use the standard 1:1 HP:kT ratio for the internals, then use an armor ratio of 1.5:1 to 6:1 HP:kT for low to high tech armor. For shields you might want a range of 2:1 to 10:1 or something like that. Special armors you'd want to be close to shields in HP:kT performance, i.e. ablative armor might max out at 8:1. You could even make it equal to shields with the penalty that it needs to be repair when damaged.

If you are using a ratio of 0.5:1 HP:kT for internals, then divide by 2 the above suggestions. I wouldn't recommend dropping lower than that for internals.

Fyron's Adamant mod has a decent armor setup - although his values are higher than suggested since his mod treats armor as a viable alternative to shields. The Star Trek universe is shield dependent, hence the values I suggested.

[ April 27, 2004, 20:38: Message edited by: Captain Kwok ]

Captain Kwok April 27th, 2004 09:45 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
A point I should make before Fyron stops by is that the reason for dropping internals to less than 1HP/kT structure, is to make ships very fragile once they have no armor or shields - which is consistent with what we see on Trek. It also helps to encourages better "leakiness" by increasing the chance that damage that bypasses armor will be sufficient enough to take out an internal rather than just apply partial damage.

On on the other hand, dropping it too low has the potential for multiple internals to be destroyed before a reasonable amount of the armor has been taken out.

Fyron April 27th, 2004 09:49 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
What does that point have to do with me Kwok? As long as the leaky armors have a significantly higher amount of hit points than the internals do, it works out.

Renegade 13 April 28th, 2004 12:41 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Atrocities: Everything seems fine to me. you could just keep it as it is for a while, maybe save the armor balancing issue for a different time. Take a break!

Captain Kwok April 28th, 2004 01:12 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
I see what is going on. Atrocities has his internals set to less to usually 1 or 2 HP per 10kT component. This is likely the reason why his previous armor seemed too powerful since the chances of hitting an internal through the leaky armor was remote simply based on chance.

Atrocities, you can improve this by bumping up your internal structures rather than decreasing the armor strength.

Also note, some internals are rated better than most armor (see Colony Module) and that might cause some kooky effects that are unintended.

Captain Kwok April 28th, 2004 01:47 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Renegade 13:
Atrocities: Everything seems fine to me. you could just keep it as it is for a while, maybe save the armor balancing issue for a different time. Take a break!
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No worries, I could always run through the components.txt file for you Atrocties, and make any requested changes for you - but not until tomorrow! Oh freedom is so close...yet so far with a looming 3hr hurdle tomorrow morning!

von_toaster April 28th, 2004 02:18 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Typo or bug: for the big fighters, a warning that a maximum of 6 engines appears as only 5 engines are installed.

Atrocities April 28th, 2004 04:23 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by Renegade 13:
Atrocities: Everything seems fine to me. you could just keep it as it is for a while, maybe save the armor balancing issue for a different time. Take a break!
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">No worries, I could always run through the components.txt file for you Atrocties, and make any requested changes for you - but not until tomorrow! Oh freedom is so close...yet so far with a looming 3hr hurdle tomorrow morning! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">That would be very helpful and sincerely appreciated CK. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities April 29th, 2004 08:22 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Can any one tell me what this says.

Quote:
Решил устроить опрос (а почему бы и нет? )

Собственно вопрос: в какие модификации SE4Gold Вы играете(играли)?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks.

Fyron April 29th, 2004 08:50 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
babelfish.altavista.com said this:

Quote:
It did decide to arrange interrogation (and why not? ) Strictly the question: in what modifications SE4Gold you igrayete(igrali)?
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">But that makes no sense...

Aiken April 29th, 2004 10:03 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
It means:
"I've decided to make a poll (why not?).
And the question is: what SE4Gold modification you are playing/have played?"

To clear things, it's my post on russian forum, devoted to space strategies in space empires section.

Questions?

edit: kill the typos!

[ April 29, 2004, 09:05: Message edited by: aiken ]

Atrocities April 29th, 2004 08:52 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Captain Kwok:
Also, Atrocities can you explain why in the world that the Romulan Quantum Singularity drive has a long range scanning ability???
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">It seemed like a good idea at the time. I recalled watching a TNG episode or something where they commented on how the Romulans were altering the QS of their engines to scan past the cloak with greater efficentcy. It can be removed if it is causing an issue.

Captain Kwok April 30th, 2004 01:14 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
I started work on the armor/shields/structure for the components. It turned out a bit more extensive than I thought, but it's looking good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/tongue.gif

Captain Kwok April 30th, 2004 01:15 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Also, Atrocities can you explain why in the world that the Romulan Quantum Singularity drive has a long range scanning ability???

The One April 30th, 2004 08:53 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Atrocities, I have been trying to reach you by email and I haven't heard a thing, hope all is well. Shalom

Frank

Fyron April 30th, 2004 09:55 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
IMO you should always try to stick with modding what makes sense, rather than random non-sensical technobabble from some particular episode. Otherwise, most components will end up being able to do pretty much everything... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Atrocities April 30th, 2004 11:09 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
IMO you should always try to stick with modding what makes sense, rather than random non-sensical technobabble from some particular episode. Otherwise, most components will end up being able to do pretty much everything... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Oh please foregive me, I was new to modding and well no one complained about it or otherwise said a word for how long?

Atrocities April 30th, 2004 11:10 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by The One:
Atrocities, I have been trying to reach you by email and I haven't heard a thing, hope all is well. Shalom

Frank
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">really? I will look in the filter and see if HM has been hiding your Messages from me.

The One April 30th, 2004 11:18 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
I have a question, what would cause a "file not found" error after you click on the end turn button, but if you choose the race to be controlled by the AI, then I do not get this error, so I'm confused.

von_toaster April 30th, 2004 11:37 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Pirate issues:
- Some problems on the ground troops and shock troops. It seems that we can only install shock troops on Troops, but this components is 10kT big. The other races have ground troops 1kT big.
- The Tech Description for the Pirate Technology mentions Tholians, not Pirates.

Atrocities May 1st, 2004 03:40 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by von_toaster:
Pirate issues:
- Some problems on the ground troops and shock troops. It seems that we can only install shock troops on Troops, but this components is 10kT big. The other races have ground troops 1kT big.
- The Tech Description for the Pirate Technology mentions Tholians, not Pirates.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Atrocities May 1st, 2004 05:38 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by The One:
I have a question, what would cause a "file not found" error after you click on the end turn button, but if you choose the race to be controlled by the AI, then I do not get this error, so I'm confused.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your missing a file would be my first guess. What file does it say your missing?

Atrocities May 1st, 2004 08:10 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Just waiting on CK to finish the revision of the component file before finalizing the final update and posting it.

The One May 2nd, 2004 02:39 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Atrocities:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Originally posted by The One:
I have a question, what would cause a "file not found" error after you click on the end turn button, but if you choose the race to be controlled by the AI, then I do not get this error, so I'm confused.
<font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Your missing a file would be my first guess. What file does it say your missing? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="sans-serif, arial, verdana">Didn't say which file, just said "error file missing" so after checking everything, I finaly tried one more thing and that was to uninstall and reinstall Space Empire IV Gold and all the mods and now, I'm not getting that error anymore.

TNZ May 2nd, 2004 08:14 AM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Atrocities, I have decided to attempt a new Star Trek Mod using the STM as the base. If you or anyone else would like to look at the first beta Version, let me know. The first beta Version should be ready in a week or two. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Some ideas that will be in this mod:
The Borg as monsters.
AI design creation files made to be more generic.
Weapons on all types of ships.
New ship sizes for all races
Smaller number of races.
New armor system.

Atrocities May 2nd, 2004 12:35 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
Sounds good TNZ. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

mottlee May 2nd, 2004 05:54 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
2600.....Just had too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

oogs May 2nd, 2004 06:32 PM
Re: STM "Final v1.7.5" Discussion
 
I don't know if anyone else has noticecd, ,but the Federation is almost invincible with Ablative Armor III. It ignores any damage that is 30 or less, and I have yet to encounter an AI weapon (aside frrom the monsters' weapons) that does more than 30 damage. I even have fleets flying around w/o shields just pummeling the enemy, and i don't have to worry about my ships at all! IS this the way it is supposed to be?

Also, there is something odd with Quantum Torpedoes. The specs show that they do more damage as a Large Base mount than as a Massive base mount.... is this right?


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