Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Nope. LA Arco

Have not taken advantage of the opportunity as it is an MP game though it would be fun to make my alive and well Prophet a "Prophet" and potentially have a 4H caster.
-ssj

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I have a battle in a turn that keeps crashing my game in the exact same place every time I replay it. I will send the turn and mods to Illwinter.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Have you looked at the crash message from the debug output? If there are mods involved, it's likely a missing sprite graphic or something like that.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

The player I am fighting also says it crashes to desktop as soon as it gets to the specific point in the battle. I have sent all the necessary files to Illwinter. There are no crash messages in the debug output so it is quite strange.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I looked through the bug shortlist and didn't see this, nor do I remember reading about it from anywhere else, so hopefully I'm not boring people with an already known bug.

In SP games I've occasionally noticed that it seems like the AI's armies can take provinces that they should have to fight your armies for. Your armies are lined up, you and the computer advance on each other and your armies pass through each other, taking the province they were just at and vice versa. For a long time I just assumed I was misremembering how our lines were drawn up and let them sneak through somehow, but I just watched another player dealing with the same thing and I am sure that something funny is going on. Unfortunately I don't have turn files to show this bug in action, I was not really thinking about it at the time and such bugs tend to be hard to reproduce.

I am not quite sure what it is letting them do so. I notice that it tends to happen when they have armies in multiple provinces that could attack your one province. So perhaps it has something to do with attacking one province from several at once? This most certainly has nothing to do with stealth units sneaking in as the nations involved were MA Ulm and Ashdod.

Either that, or occasionally the army size reports you get are horribly, horribly distorted to the point where small armies look huge and vice versa.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

The size display thing is really random if it goes out of whack (such as when you see enemy reports of your own armies), but when it works as it should, the variation if 50% to 200% of actual size, so there is a lot of scope for different reports of fairly small armies. 50 enemies can look like 25 or 100. When this thing bugs, it's rarely repeatable, but sending a turn when it occurs to IW could help.

The army movement stuff is strange. There should be at least one battle, in the province you move to if nowhere else. If you use something to back up your turns and you encounter this, please send the files to IW per the insturctions in the shortlist thread.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

The kind of size difference I'm specifically referring to is pretty large. For example, there might be an army that says it's ~40 and one that's 150+, and then the next turn, your army that was attacking the 150+ army's province had a battle against some pd and whatever was left in the province, and 150+ enemy units are in the province you just left. So if it is just the size of armies displaying very strangely in two provinces at once, it's just a bit frustrating and something I guess you have to plan for. It really seems though like they're actually circumventing your army and ending up in your province somehow. If they're actually getting behind you without fighting your army, that's a particularly annoying sort of bug.

To clarify I was reporting this as one bug and just speculating on possible reasons for what I was seeing to happen. Unfortunately I don't back up my turns, I wish I could provide a good example of that bug because the AI abuses it pretty well.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Due to the recent patch I have been fighting a *lot* of battles in the void.

It says things like... Vastness attacks Guido.

Every single combat actually has TWO enemies. The vastness (mentioned) and a lesser horror.

Is this right?

Whatever the battle, it could be say.. Greater Otherness, or Doom Horror or .. whatever.. there is the named critter... *and* a lesser Horror.

And the lesser horror always places about mid field, toward the back...

Anyone else see this?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

chris: I assume you have units that were lost in the void? If so, they were fighting enemies in the void BEFORE the patch, but now you can see. ;)

rdonj: That is WAD. Two armies moving to the other's territories have a cahcen of missing each other. If they do, they fight in the territories they were moving to. If they don't miss (in general, larger armies should miss less) then there is a 50% chance that they fight in either territory.

If you are attacked from multiple directions and your army manages to leave it's territory it will not defend against the attackers, so that is another way to miss fighting the enemy.

Just to be clear - the AI has nothing to do with this. Any player moving towards you might just pass by instead.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Well, I wasn't sure if it was just the AI or not, because I had never seen or heard of that happening in an mp game. But it does make sense that it would not just be the AI.

That said, I looked at the manual and you're right. I don't know how happy I am that it's WAD, but now that I know it's not a bug I can be happier with it. All it said about what can cause armies to miss each other is "size and terrain", but it didn't say how. Does anyone know exactly how this works?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I'm not questioning that I can see them.

Whether from before the patch or after, I'm question why there are TWO enemies every time.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I really think that rewards from The Forgotten City should be classified as a bug. Last example - my guy killed 2 lesser horrors, dodged many traps, ballista shots etc and found... 16! gold.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Bug: Zmey dragon has a fire breath with range of str, but *never* fires it.

Bug: Rylley dreamlands description says that Mind lords are immune to insanity. They are not, but probably should be.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Sorry if someone mentioned this already, but if you click on the "Go to province" button of site searching spells, you end up in the province where the caster is in and not in the searched province.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Another one that seems to have appeared after the last patch.
Turn report says "[Commander] has cast [spell]" and has "Go to province" link instead of "Go to commander" that was there before (I just checked it in one of the old games). I don't know if this change was on purpose but if it was I can't really see any sense in it.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Probably means "Go to province targeted by the spell" and defaults to the province where it was cast if it wasn't targeted at anything. This was something that was requested repeatedly, because to see the results site searching and other spells, you'd have to be taken to where it was targeted rather than the caster. So looks like JK came through with that feature request.

Test it around and see if it works that way.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

three provinces, each with 5 lilots.
Supposedly, each lilot has misfortune 20

Over 10 turns, the provinces in question did not receive a single bad luck event.

This was against an AI nation of about 10 provinces.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Stealthed, to give him bad luck? But you wouldn't get any messages if he had most bad events, like poor harvests, harsh winters, etc.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

No, it doesn't. Link points to the province where caster is located and not the spell target province or to caster himself as it was before. What was before was much more convenient indeed. At least when you cast some summons or other rituals you could go directly to commander.

edit: just tested it a bit. Seems like it only affected the games that were started before the last patch. In a newly created game there is "go to commander" link but in two MP games I'm in link is to province where caster is located. Not a serious issue probably but rather annoying.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Thanks for testing it, ano. :)

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

They're not. They have so-called "void sanity", like a bunch of other creatures, which gives them a higher chance at being unaffected by the insanity dom effect. I'd rather change the description, if there's the need.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

No, they don't. Their description doesn't seem to suggest anything in that regard. What gave you that idea? All they have is the succubus seduction. Maybe you're thinking of Likho (#1952), instead?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

yes, that is the correct unit (likho). I posted from the road and misremembered the name.

I'm going to try a game with two human players and see what that reveals.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Yeah, I don't care either way, update the description or the effect.

Logically, creatures from from the meteor should all be immune to the void sanity. But there is a huge difference between the mages and the non mages. Ie., star-children which you would expect to be less immune than the parents are actually more immune than the mind lords.

I have never seen a starchild, the top mage, or the top priest go insane. The mind lords on the other hand go insane regularly.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Sometime when I get around to going through all the voidsanity ratings, I'll smack you over the head with them to show you what they are. Some beings have lower, some have higher, but unless the rating is 20, they're not immune. Only Void creatures and a couple of others have it at 20.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Ranged weapon bug: Playing Dom3k and sombre's Broken Swords Jomon mod, I have noticed that some of the ranged weapons just do not work as advertised. You will see ranged units waiting 2 turns to begin using their ranged weapons, and then despite having ~40 turns of ammo will go rushing into melee after maybe 10 turns of shooting. Luckily I haven't seen that yet with sombre's mod as the crimson twins are not terribly durable, but I've seen it enough in dom3k that I'm pretty sure it would happen there as well. My best guess is that it's related to how far the ranged weapon can fire. Instead of firing at things within their range, they stand still for 2 turns. Not moving, not firing... they just sit there. Then they'll start shooting. I haven't tested thoroughly to see if they'll fire at the beginning of a battle if they're within a certain range of the enemy or not, it would be interesting to see if that changed the result any.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I look forward to being smacked. I don't know void sanity ratings, but I do know for game purposes, Ryllahs nonslave mages dont go crazy.

Could be because I play void lurkers with 9 astral and since they're sacred they get the +4 mr and hence make the save.. don't know. Just know the mind lords do go crazy. Often.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

This sounds like a bug. It should be possible to avoid data loss by doing something like:
which should ensure that data loss can only happen due to a crash during the rename. In all other cases, either old or new state is intact and in place.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Ornedan, I actually was under the impression that something like that was already in place. I think I did encounter full HDDs myself, without data loss. I have no idea what exactly happened in the case of MrGraves, just that his files are probably damaged.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Should the Elixir of Life be able to be used with Golems? Seems strange that it works with lifeless units.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Ok, 2 new bugs to report:

1. Soul Slay from Ethereal Crossbow killed Mindless Gargoyle, which shouldn't happen, as Mindless are immune to Soul Slay. So maybe some missing check for triggered spells from items? Could lead to some abuses...

2. It looks like you can get old unused unit form through Transformation - exactly old Hydra Hatchling (#719 or #769) instead of correct Hydra Hatchling with Greater and Lesser Head.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I guess no one cares about modded ranged weapons :(

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Quickest fix for item 1 is to alter the item description :D

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

LA-R:

If your real prophet dies - it becomes impossible to appoint a new one, due to the insane number of fake prophets abounding.

Does one of the fake prophets get appointed to 'realness'.
If so it is very tedious to determine.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

That's a feature, not a bug, though which one of them (if any) becomes the "real" prophet is impossible to determine by conventional methods.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

All are real.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Shouldn't be too hard to test if any of them become the real prophet when the old one dies.

Just suicide the actual prophet as soon as you get a fake one, wait six months and look at the dominion spread. Practically impossibly in a real game, especially if you're trying to figure out which of a dozen it might be, but should be possible under tightly controlled circumstances.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Thats the crux of the matter Edi: Does one become the prophet?

Since the damn beginning of the game I was telling myself - be careful with your prophet be careful with your prophet.

Screwed up one turn. Now have *no* idea which one is prohpet or will be.

I'm betting that *none* of them become real.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

No, this has been shone to be false. Only the first prophet spreads dominion as a prophet.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

If the only difference is the dominion spread, is that really a big difference past the early game? =

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I found one.

When casting Voice of Tiamet spell, It's not showing as being searched. Not sure if this is a problem with searching in general, or specifically with this spell.

(Not sure if it matters) but most of these underwater provinces were previously from other races as I made a late sea venture in a SP game.


Also, Voice of Tiamet text shows that you can cast it on any underwater province, but in practice, it is limited to friendly provinces.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Also, Voice of Tiamet is not auto acquiring new targets on Monthly (it's casting them on the same province over and over), despite the provinces not being searched yet.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

The Tiamat issues are known. The description error is because some spells used to be castable at enemy provinces, but would be too cheap dome-breakers, so that might have been the reason for Tiamat being limited to friendly provinces only.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

What's up with the patrolling with immobiles thing? I don't see it on the bug lists, and it's been around for quite awhile. Is it going to be fixed, or reclassified as a feature? (i mean, alot of the immobiles rather need the help anyways, and it helps address a number of serious functional failures that immobiles have that they should not have to deal with, due to client limitations)

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Immobiles patrolling? - I think that's WAD. Watchers would be a bit pointless otherwise.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

watchers are a good point. qm and i are debating it, and it's rather important for balance whether or not it's a bug (especially for pretenders like sphinx and monolith).

(another related issue, is that a monolith or oracle with teleport should relaly be able to defend outside a castle, i mean they can cast teleport. but if you don't allow them to patrol, they can't defend outside a castle; another reason i favor allowing immobiles to patrol)

So can we get an official ruling from the powers that be?
Zlefin :)

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

I am completely mistified by a battle result.

I sent 400+ free spawn vs. marignons 30 or so royal guards and 100 crossbow.

I cast darkness and rain - the precision of the marignon crossbowmen was *4*. Range was 20+.

I am used to seeing wide amounts of scatter. In this case you see essentially *no* scatter. In the first 5 volleys virtually every single crossbow hit. None are long. None are short.

Only *1* shot in 500 shots inflict damage on the marignon royal guard, despite the fact that many are slimed or paralyzed and fatigued.

Can anyone explain this?

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

Also, I've looked at the debug log. But it seems that debug logs do not include crossbow resolution, the result just appear to load in from an army trs file. (which I have no access to)

According to the deviation formula EVEERY missile shot should deviate (range is > 4/2 -2), and the deviation (at minimum) should be.. 24*1.25/4 = 8 squares.. or more usually 10 squares.

But it never happens. at the *thickest point* my troops were 8 ranks deep. If the computer aimed smack in the middle... he could splatter and hit 4 in either direction. But not 8, and not 10.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

The computer doesn't always aim for the middle of squads, as proven by illithid mind blasts. Remember, spell casters and archers pick targets differently. Secondly, unless your squads were very far apart from each other, unlikely with that many troops, it is possible that many of the shots went wide enough to hit nearby squads. Lastly, crossbows have an accuracy of 2, which I assume moves the total precision to 6, not 4. Pardon me if you already accounted for this by the way.

One thing I like about well equipped units is that weapon bonuses apply as normal in darkness. Soldiers with shields and broadswords will still rock a lot of socks if the opponent isn't undead, a demon, or have darkvision. You might even be giving the opponent an edge if your not careful.

Re: Bug Thread: Discussion
 

many of R. units have dark vision 50% or higher.