Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hiya Val! LTNS http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Yeah, me did a Gold conVersion (basic only) back in January. Should be up in the race board here...

You want the 1.49 Version still? I guess best to post it here as e-mail has a 8 MB limit in file size.

Biggest gripe (as usual are the seemingly endless RCEs in 1.49...as soon as we crushed one another would raise its head...very frustrating to say the least. I re-did some of the engine stuff to solve the engine created ones (had to fiddle with both componets file and vehiclesize file)...also had a go at getting races with armors....

AS IF said, quite a discussion over weapons effects (rate of fire/distance/damage over range, etc). Also something of a discussion over whether or not the AI Ancients should be able to colonize. I'll say this...they are somewhat limted/ineffective if no coloization BUT if allowed to (thru allowing the research) then the Shadows are almost unstoppable and to a lesser degree the Vorlons are.

[ March 12, 2003, 01:04: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val: Link to the B5 Gold I did in January:

First file is the zip for the two readme for the B5 MOD - Gold, second is the AI+Shipsets.

1: 1044154075.zip

2: 1044155514.zip

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Well thank the gods your back!

Anyway..whats gone on?

Well with the thought of you not comming back for good we were all thinking to what extent we would change the mod. This was all because several parts of the mod (this is most notible with weapons and their stats) are completely unintelegable to work out due to not knowing how you envisaged the working of the game.

This lead to people questioning whether we should scrap the weapons as they are as it's like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics without the rosetta stone. We had only just started this debate as u can see below with grumbler doing the first tests of long range-low Rof Vs short range-high Rof etc.

we all agreed that there were problems with the weapons as they are and that some races (notibly EA) have a huge selection of weapons as others don't.
This ALSO lead to questioning the usefullness of having so may weapons, some saying it might be better to just have race specific weapons or alternativly basic universal weapons for all lasers, plasma weps etc insted of different types of weapons for each race eg. EA having heavy lasers 1 and gaim having combat lasers 1 turns to both having generic laser 1. (something i'm against as the whole point of the b5 mod is that each race is totally different, otherwise it's just se4 with bab5 pics).

Pathfinder the absolute legend has been working hard at the ai. but has come up against problems with the engines as usual http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif oh well.

the same debate for weapons has been going on with the ai as pathfinder wanted to know if the ai should go straight for there race specific weapons or work up with a few others on the way. And also which weapons to go for as with all the imbalances at the moment some weapons the ai are choosing are useless.

Thats all i can remember at the mo i think...

oh Pathfinder - did u fix the problem with the armour as didn't u give it the "hit first" trait by accident at one point?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Jamorobo: Don't remember, except I had to give armour a "bogus" ability in order for it to not conflict with cargo bays...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

pathfinder:

Are those Gold links a complete package? I mean, if I download those two files, install them over a fresh install of SE4Gold, will the mod be complete and playable?

The reason I ask is because I'm on a ridiculously slow dial-up connection and I dont want to download the wrong thing or something that isnt going to really work right, especially given the size of the files.

I've been following the B5mod for some time, but I was under the impression that the gold conVersion was more of a 'work in progress'. I've been waiting for the complete 'Real Deal' and if this is it, I guess I just missed any announcements of it.

Thanx a lot!

Talenn

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val:
I think there is still a problem with the supply values of Ancient Reactors where the Small ones make more supplies per kT and per resource cost than the Medium and Large ones.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

IF:
I do believe I have fixed the supply values for the ancient reactors, though I have to compare to PFs changes to the Comp file and see what I have to update from what he has masterfully done.

PF:
Do you recall specific changes you made? Which components and such? Ta help me check and make the changes in .34?

Maybe we can come up with some other equalizing agent for allowing the Ancients to prosper a bit more. Ideas?

JAM:
Heh, I think I'll take the Egyptian Hieroglyphics ref as a compliment http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Actually, all the ROF and damage values are based off of the B5 Wars game. To figure out the ranges at which weapons could fire I used a 'base-to-hit' number and adjusted the max range out to whenever the 'to-hit' value dropped below a 25% chance. The damage was based off of some formulas...

I did wind up adding 'generic' weapons so all races could at least get something for researching laser, antimater, etc.

All PBW:

What has the PBW game been like so far?

All:

Has anyone tried the Intel?
Have there been any more shipsets?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Talenn: The B5 Gold I did is based on the 1.49 Version available in January. It is really a very basic Gold Version, I would NOT call it finished.

Val: This page in the race style forum should give you a clue (just see my 3-4 Posts there with .zip files and explanations as to what the changes were): <a href="http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3" target="_blank">http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-
bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=50;t=000001;p=3</a>

I'll scour my files and see if I made a readme with change notes.

Timstone had started an Ipsha set but this semesters course work is hammering him so work stopped on that.

I have started a Yolu but only got as far as the destroyers...

[ March 13, 2003, 04:14: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Danka!

I do have a cleaned up Dilgar shipset from the ver .34 based on what you sent me and some redos.

Dilgar34.zip

Also have a mostly completed Torvalus for another Ancients race.

d/ling your stuff and will check out this weekend!

[ March 13, 2003, 04:35: Message edited by: Val ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is not fixed in the Version of the mod the PBW game is using. Medium are 3x the space as Light, with only a little over 2x the supplies. 2 Light Reactors cost teh same as 1 Medium, and are 5 kT smaller. They only make 700 less supplies, which is not all that much, really. For 50% increased size, you only get 10% increased supply output.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val:

What I don't like about the current Version of the mod:

1. There are too many obsolete options presented in shipbuilding: old engine types, weapons so obviously inferior you would never use them, etc.

2. The whole engine/reactor concept is a nice idea, but breaks down in practice because the engine sizes are so small. B5 ships in the series tended to have a few large engines, not dozens of small ones. Dozens of engines times variable supplies used per move times number of moves per turn creates a bit calculation nightmare, and it is hard to make any tradeoffs between speed, armor, and weapons when the cost of speed is so hard to calculate.

3. Some of the research payoff versus cost seem unreasonable (especially in reactive armor). You can literally pay millions of RP to get a 10% improvement.

4. The high space cost of cargo holds means that you really only have a few options for cargo hulls. Small transports make no sense, given that they can only hold 1 cargo hold (and get any speed) while the Fast Courier can hold as much cargo while being faster and cheaper. Curiously, engines are highly configurable while cargo holds are not.

What I like about the mod:

1. The mix of defensive options in the face of the lack of shields. One would expect this to be a sticking point (especially as shields seemed kind of integral to the combat system of the basic game) but the different kinds of ECM makes for some interesting tradeoffs. I still think the Proportions mix of hull minuses to defense plus engine plusses to defense (to simulate the effect of speed on defensive ability) is worth emulating, especially if the engine system is changed.

2. The overall feel is excellent, especially for the major "playable" races (EA, Minbari, Narns, and Centauri). Their ships do look and fight differently.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I don't have the authority to speak for the other things you mentioned, but I do have this one covered.

Don't for a minute expect to rush down the tech tree, straight for the top-end armor.
There are diminishing returns on all of these things, and in most cases you will never research right to the end. You do have the option but it may not be practical.

Most of the armor tech areas are optional, as well. You can work on the theoretical techs to achieve the ability to build emissive armor before you research refractive armor, for example.
At that point, you can ignore the practical refractive armor techs, and simply develop the more advanced emissive technology.

Skipping armor levels is a good way to save research points, but if an enemy appears at the wrong time, you may find yourself with a lot of theory, but no practical work completed, and your factories will be making expensive, low quality armor plates.

In summary:
Think "diminishing returns", and work towards the best tech levels you believe you can reach before the wars start.
There will always be higher tech levels to reach for. Anyone who gets to the top is just toying with his opponent, and pressing end turn a lot.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

On the subject of weapons, the races that have a range make it hard to counter while those that have a few are predicatable.

example : the Gaim (whom I'm playing in the game)
Once the techs are there there are simply just two main weapon systems used by the Gaim - Particle Concentrators and a missile weapon that I've forgetten the name of just at the moment. You know that if you're facing Gaim, that unless they done some heavy capturing/trading that all you really have to worry about is a long range moderate damage beam weapon with the occasional missile just to make sure you researched point defence.
Someone playing the EA has a wide range of weapon loadouts - will you be facing beams, massed missiles, a combination, etc. So choice can be good - but the research load is hideous and trying to keep track of which weapon you want where ...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val, I am still here if you need me for something!

<font color=purple>mlmbd http://www.shrapnelgames.com//ubb/icons/icon6.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif </font>

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Val, long time no see!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Everyone has been shocked into silence at Val's return! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/shock.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

No, I think it's because of the War. Everyone is either debating it over in the OT threads, or glued to their TV/radio waiting to see what happens next.

If the war wraps up quickly, we'll have a nice bit of community returning ... until the USA invades N. Korea that is http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hi people - I'm fairly new to SE4G and I'm trying to get this to work on my PC, but I'm getting loads of AI errors.

So...what precisely do I need to download and apply in which order to get this to work?

Thanks in advance

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

The B5 Mod is developed for pre-gold se4. You need to look for the Gold conVersion that was made of the mod. I think Pathfinder made it.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I am trying to use that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon9.gif
Not sure what's going on sigh

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

What sorts of errors are you getting? Are you sure you are using modded AIs in the mod, and not normal se4 AIs?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

While we are on the topic, not really an error, but a nuisance. I cannot see all of the various ship enhancements (ie - civilian ship, military ship, etc) when I have "only latest" on. Since we are in the beginning of the game, it is not a real big deal, but later, when there are many upgraded components, it will be a pain in the arse.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Yes AI errors...

s'why I basically asked for a quick install guide which works for someone. Would seem to be easier than troubleshooting the problem.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

We can't really help you if you don't tell us what the problem is. There are a lot of things that qualify as AI errors.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

never mind. Given up for now sigh

[ March 29, 2003, 01:55: Message edited by: Dawn Falcon ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I think it is time to give up on the non-Gold development and develop the mod exclusively for Gold. This will allow all sorts of new features to be used. It will eliminate problems caused by se4-errors that have been fixed in patches. It will eliminate all se4 Version-related problems. Sure, a few people won't be able to play the mod then, but they need to go buy Gold anyways. We shouldn't let a very small minority hinder the mod.

[ March 29, 2003, 01:59: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I agree also. It's time to put pre-Gold to bed.

[ March 30, 2003, 03:36: Message edited by: atomannj ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

After reading back through the thread, it'd seem that the racial/weapons model is what'd need some revision?

I'm playing arround with a more balanced system for it...don't mind if you don't use it, it's just designed to spark some thoughts and comments. Should be ready tomorrow.

..and it's not. More races than I thought. Done half a dozen, working on the others. And my wireless network isn't working for some unknown problem. Grr.

[ March 31, 2003, 01:43: Message edited by: Dawn Falcon ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I am out of the loop for the PBW, so I guess automate my week-end turn. Back Sunday night.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I think I agree. If people don't have gold by now, well what's keeping them? Aaron can't possibly be making any money off us if we don't buy the upgrades once in a while http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif Just another way for us to support the hardest working game manufacturer in the biz

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Did Val disappear again? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I keep getting an error message saying "Unable to load techarea.txt" which is keeping me from loading the Mod. I checked the file and it seems to be fine any clues as to what I did wrong?

Thanks

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Are you using the 1.49 Version of the mod in Gold? That will not work.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

No I am using the old SEIV Version with B5 Mod, however I do have the Gold Version on my machine. What do you think the problem is?

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Hello. I recently bought SE 4 Gold, I have downloaded all of the files found on Rambie's site, the 2 zips provided by Pathfinder for the Gold conVersion and the 1.84 patch. Do I have everything I need to run this mod?

Is there anything being currently worked on? It seems that a lot of people disappeared from here as of late. And does anyone know if this mod is compatible with stand alone modded shipsets?

[ April 13, 2003, 11:00: Message edited by: Geryon ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Without looking through this thread...

Question is there any reason that the Trading Post and Manufacturing colony are the member of the same family ??

Every time i Click the upgrade all in the planets window all the manufacturing colony fac... that i am building switches over to trading post. Which is a pain since the Trading Post is not as good asthe Manufacturing Colony.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Geryon:
Yeah, but many of us are students, and many of us are Canadian
Final Exams + Playoff hockey = temporary absence.

I bet things will pick up at the end of April, bout the time most of us crawl out of our study holes, realize that the light of day is too bright and crawl back down to the safety of things like... computers http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Thanks for the info jimbob, I just had a sudden sense of fear that suddenly this mod might have "gone beyond the rim" just as I finally got the chance to get the game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

I'd also like to give a special appreciation to pathfinder and grumbler who made the Gold Versions I'll be able to use, thanks guys.

And a question or 2 to the mod makers, I noticed ships from B5 Wars in the ship sets such as the Poseidon Supercarrier, how come other B5 Wars ships aren't being used? I saw the names of these ships in one of the texts in the zip but the ships aren't in the sets; Tethys Cutter (imo would make a better escort than the Skylark transport which is a civilian ship), the Artemis Heavy Frigate (with it's awesome Rail Gun arsenal which I think you guys have in game?), Sagittarius Missile Cruiser and the Avenger Escort Carrier. Also why was the Asimov Luxury Liner removed from heavy Transport? The current small and med transports are both shuttles, wouldn't the Iron Side Crew Shuttle would work better as the small transport (currently med) as the Hestrel is used only for planetary transport, the Kneale Freighter the Med transport (currently large) and the Asimov as the large.

Please don't think this a criticism, I'm only curious as to why these designs aren't being used, the shipset is great as it is.

Thanks again for all your hard work.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

seemed to be missed

Without looking through this thread...

Question is there any reason that the Trading Post and Manufacturing colony are the member of the same family ??

Every time i Click the upgrade all in the planets window all the manufacturing colony fac... that i am building switches over to trading post. Which is a pain since the Trading Post is not as good asthe Manufacturing Colony.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

tesco: IIRC the trading post was supposed to be a "baby" manufacturing colony...in other words cheaper, quicker to build (several testers were complainining of the cost & build time for the MC). However, as you noted it seems th AI likes the TD better...

not sure how to fix...

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Switch their order in the Facility file. The Last one in the list for the family is the prefered one for AIs, and also is what determines what upgrades to what.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

My head hurts.....bleah...

hotmail uses McAfee virus scan for attachments. When I tried to send my latest B5 PBW turn it threw up a red flag saying it was infected with a virus. 1 hour later and Norton says nope, no virus. I re-try and voila! the files goes thru without a hitch... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

So do you guys have any thoughts on using other B5 Wars ships? Or is the mod just way too far along to input them in at this point (more trouble than its worth).

I have absolutely no idea how ships and weapons work in this game, if the weapons are set up by individual ship or if they are set up by the type (frigate, destroyer, etc). If they can set up by the ship (meaning you add whatever weapons you want to that ship, I think it might be interesting to use ships with unique weapons such as the Artemis (Rail Guns) and the Sagittarius (L-Class Missiles). Of course if you guys think this a bad idea, it's not possible to set up, or have a planned number of ships per side which already reached its quota then I'll consider it forgotten.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Weapons can be placed on any ship where they fit size wise.
Weapon mounts can be restricted to specific hulls, and thus certain weapons can be allowed only on specific hulls, but it gets clunky and ugly.

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Thanks for the info Suicide Junkie. I have modded other games but my knowledge is extremely lacking when it comes to this game. I realize that suggesting changes or additions to shipsets and weapons might result in set backs or worse some sort of unbalance to what was already achieved. Because of any of these and other reasons I'd understand not implementing any of my suggestions.

Still just in case it'd be of any interest, I'll observe as an example the EA at the moment. I have noticed from looking the zips there are pulse, plasma, particle, matter, ballistic and laser weapons in multiple stages. I'm also unsure how exactly tech trees work in this game (it still hasn't arrived due to shipping problems), I think I saw technology can be upgraded in ships (have light pulse weapons and upgrade to med and heavy later on in the same ship)? I also don't know if tech can be exchanged (have say a plasma weapon replaced by a particle or laser as tech becomes available). I'm parting from the premise that weapons in the mod are being kept reasonably close to canon, ex. the Hyperion upgrades its multiple plasma batteries and the main particle cannon and later adds the 2 side lasers but doesn't have the ability to make all its weapons fire lasers, that sort of thing. If it's being kept near to canon, the only ship that should fire missiles right now is the Warlock (save the GodSat). But the missiles on the Warlock are secondary weapons, it's main weapons are the heavy pulse cannons and the new Heavy Particle Beam Cannon. The Saggitarius meanwhile would fire only missiles and work well as an long-range artillery ship complementing other ships using beams and pulses. The way I set up my mod for the other game is that ships use different weapons at different settings so that they need to complement each other (otherwise all I'd need are Warlocks and Omegas). This is a small example, if this sort of thing is being done here or something like it is of interest I'd like to help. I have several B5 Wars books detailing tech and weapons for at least the main races and Dilgar, B5 Wars was closed down before I could get books on the League, since that is at the least an official source of info I can provide anything I have that isn't already being used and of course is needed.

If all this mumbo jumbo isn't needed though then disregard the really huge paragraph in the middle. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Go play the demo to see how it works. You can retrofit a ship designed with any set of components to any ship design using any components, whether they are new Versions of old components or completely different components. Well, you have to obey the max 150% difference costs. You can only retrofit from design A to design B if design B's total cost is at most 1.5 * design A's total cost (all 3 resources added together).

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Geryon: I tried to make the outfitting of ships as close to canon as I could (I did most of the AI). I based it mostly on the Agents of Gaming B5 game.

Input is always welcome. One reason for current stagnation is I got a little burned out (not to mention Val's disappearance) ... also big issue was range/damage modeling, some thought it is not as should be for some weapons.

One thing to note: due to the way the AI files are arranged the AI will use whatever weapons are entered into the design file in priority order (hope this makes sense). So I had to make some decisions as to what each size ship (not each model) had for weapons.

[ April 18, 2003, 20:53: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

I think I'm following what you're saying there Pathfinder. I'm certain that your setup is more than adequate, I'll try to see if I can understand exactly how the ships and weapons work from a modding standpoint once the game arrives (hopefully Monday or Tuesday) or I'll have to dowload the demo.

My question for weapons arrangements was directed towards the idea of making ships more unique and have to depend on one another (as opposed to the standard game where you use the earlier ships only until you can build the newer and bigger ones and then just discard the old ones and massively spam the large battleships, I hate games that do that). My ships question was just mere curiosity to see if those other designs were of any interest to use at all. Nevertheless, if any of this will cause a lot of headaches or is already being implemented disregard it, the Last thing I want to do is mess up the current vibe the mod has.

And don't worry about the stagnation, I understand both schoLastic duties or just plain burnouts from overworking the mod very well (I'm there myself with my own mods), take whatever time you need for R&R and resume work at your own pace.

I know I'm currently not much useful to modding the game itself, but whatever I can be of help with is at your disposal.

PS. I really look forward to seeing your AI kick my butt as soon as the game arrives also!

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Geryon: Hehe, The Shadows (and to a lesser extent the Vorlons) can be a nitemare since their weapons outclass most other races weapons (though late stage Abbai & Minbari can probably hold their own).

Oh and remember, the AI lmitations are out the window in human vs human in play by web http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon12.gif There, if RP is agreed to, the game could be rather, uhm, "interesting"...

[ April 18, 2003, 23:13: Message edited by: pathfinder ]

Re: Babylon 5 Mod
 

Pathfinder: Lol, yeah those Vorlons and Shadows are nightmares in every damn mod I stumble onto them.

As for Online gaming, after a while of playing perhaps I'll be able to present a reasonable challenge...then again I might be the equivalent of a Raider fighter against the Walkers of Sigma 957. We'll see about that once the damn game gets here http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/icons/icon7.gif Oh and also provided that you play with the Gold edition which is the one I'm getting.

I wonder just how RPGish is this game against AIs, I hope I'll be able to set up things similar non-aggression pacts, mutual defense treaties to make allies against those pesky Shadows, trade routes instead of just one gigantic smackdown against every empire in the known universe, I have no Londo complex after all...