Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

The Fire and Frost Brand are popular not just because they are cheap, but also because they fill a niche - they provide offensive crowd control while at the same time being able to deal at least decently with tougher targets.

I think that niche needs filling, but if you do not, you are going about it the wrong way. If the well-roundedness is the problem, you should remove the Fire Brand entirely; there are earth weapons that perform the AP damage and the Demon Whip that manages crowd control through area fire. And the Frost Brand could then be replaced by an item similar to the Demon Whip but utilizing cold damage.

Lowering the base damage of especially the Fire Brand will eliminate its use as all-round weapon for commanders with strength in the 10-15 range, while commanders with 20+ strength will still be able to use it as a decent all-round weapon. In short the change would just tip the balance even further in the direction of SCs.


As for making the Shadow Brand armour negating, I do not think it a good idea. There are not that many non-ranged AN weapons and the ones that do exist do not have anywhere near the stats of the Shadow Brand. If you want to keep the stats anywhere near as is - and here base damage is at best a secondary concern - I have to ask why the introduction of such a powerful weapon is warranted, and if you want to bring the stats in line with what already exists, I have to ask why you intend to double up on what is already in the game.

Whatever the answer, it still boils down to making death more powerful. And I do not see that as promoting balance.


When it comes to two-handed weapons, I find the assessment of the 'general' situation rather flawed. Most 2h weapons are ranged, boosters or speciality weapons in some other fashion (Lightning Rod, Staff of Corrosion etc). Even among the rest, there is a lot of special niche-filling going on.

Two weapons have been mentioned specifically, namely the Flambeau and the Wraith Sword.

Now, it escapes me why the Flambeau should need a boost. It is already a very, very good weapon against undead and demons. With its AP and tripple damage even a bog standard strength 10 commander does huge damage to a preferred target (69 AP), no matter how much armour is crammed onto it. It is not the best choice when not fighting demons or undead, but that would seem a good thing if variety is what you are after.

The Wraith Sword on the other hand fills a quite different niche. It is not a weapon that you drool over, but instead a weapon filling the crap-I'm-out-of-earth-and-nature-gems niche for some heavy death nations. It is not a weapon you will forge a lot of in a game, but at times you forge a couple. A construction-heavy Fomoria with a low nature and earth gem-flow may be a candidate. You are churning out one 25 strength King and several 20+ strength commanders each turn, and at least the Kings have a decent shot at getting a water pick, so you are not lacking commanders that can handle the sword.

It is certainly not ideal and it is expensive, but that is the price you pay for being a death nation. Death does not have as many weapon options as other paths.


There are some 2h weapons I have a hard time finding a use for - the Halberd of might springs to mind - but I think a lot of the others just suffer from lack of context in these discussions.

Take the two construction 0 2-handers Sword of Sharpness and Thorn Staff for example. When you have lots of mages, a steady gem-flow and construction 6 researched, these will rarely be optimal choices, but in the beginning of the game, they are sometimes well worth it. They are cheap and provide offensive punch and very good defence respectively. A 1-hander and a shield will not only cost more in both gems and mage-time, but also bring some problems. Earth shields increase encumbrance, which may be a problem, and the high defence of the staff is much better than a shield when you are up against a big brute that hits hard (Agarthan Ancient Lord with a 2h Sword of Sharpness maybe).

Weapons need to be evaluated in a context.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

The Frost Brand is not a good anti-SC weapon; 16 damage plus a strength of 13 means that a Sidhe Lord could do some damage to an SC but he's not likely to win. A Fire Brand obviously improves his damage potential but I still don't consider that SC killing gear. SC killing gear has a damage multiplier against the intended target (undead, construct, etc) or perhaps AN damage. And as far as I know, all the real anti-SC weapons are not very good for chaff.

Sure, you can kill SCs with glamour thugs but you can also lose them very easily. 15 HP doesn't give much of a margin for error.

Really, I'm trying to figure out what problem these suggestions are intended to address. It's not like low HP units with brands (or glamour nations for that matter, since the nerf to glamour) are dominating the game and imperiling SCs. To each their own; that's the nice thing about mods. But personally I'd prefer not to see these changes in CBM. Heck, I'd like to see a boost to Eriu, not kill it off completely. :)

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Disagree with Amorphous re: Wraithsword. I would never forge one. Ever. Shadow Brand or Dusk dagger are both vastly preferable, and cost fewer gems to boot. Sure, they both require 2 paths, but you must have gems *somewhere*. And generally you're going to be using your d gems for other things, so chances are its d you're short on and something else you have in excess quantity. Heck, if it must be d gems, I'd take a bane blade over a wraith sword since its 1/5 the price!

2h weapons need to be better than 1h weapons to make up for the fact that you can't use a shield, even if that shield is the one you came with as stock gear. Wraithsword is just useless.

Now, I accept that the 2h sword of sharpness has a place. Its also better than the 1h sword of sharpness, as it should be. But wraith sword is expensive, late in research, and inferior to a large number of other weapons. For its cost it should be the best weapon for some task. Its not.

Other weapons that could use improvement:
-Implementor Axe
-Enchanted Pike (not sufficiently better than Enchanted Spear or Enchanted Sword, consider 12 damage)
-Sword of Swiftness (consider 16 base damage to even plausibly compete with frostbrand)

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

If you have a Fomorian King with Water, then you *definitively* do not want to craft a Wraith Sword for him. You want a FrostBran for him, and even with zero water gems, you'll get ahead by first alchemising the death-gems to water-gems... Why would you want to lose the shield on Fomorian King so that you could be wielding an inferior weapon?

That already tells just how bad the Wraith Sword is. Never seen one used by a player under Dom3 (but there are other things I never see which others think are common, so that doesn't prove anything :) ).

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Neither of those provide you with reinvigoration, so they are not suitable replacements for a Wraith Sword.

If all you are after is damage, a Wraith Sword is not what you need, but there are other situations.

If you want lifedrain you have to choose between Wraith Sword, Blood Thorn or Standard of the Damned, but that last one is in form of an item spell.

I do not really see it. It seems more of a speciality weapon to me. The help to pillaging is huge, and the fear does not hurt. It is not the best for fighting, but then, that does not seem for what it is primarily intended.

The Enchanted Pike has always seemed a weapon intended to be utilized as a repel-weapon. As such, it seems to me that boosting attack or defence would be a better choice.

I find this one occasionally useful, but if you really need to boost it, why not increase its attack instead? Reasonably you want this weapon for lots of attacks - probably in order to overcome high defence.


Again, this does not solve the reinvigoration issue.

If all you are looking for is high damage numbers, it does not make any sense to even attempt to fix the Wraith Sword. Just remove it along with any other weapons with special abilities that do not directly detract from the hp of your opponents.

If you need reinvigoration and you insist on wielding a Frost Brand, fine, but you have to get the reinvigoration from somewhere else, because the sword is certainly not solving the issue. So where do you get it, the gems for it and the needed slots?

As long as that is not done, the statement that the brand or any other weapon is superior in comparison to the Wraith Sword is not really worth anything.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Reinvigoration: there are plenty of non-weapon ways to get this, none of whom require you to make attacks to get the reinvigoration. And if the option is a crappy weapon and reinvigoration or a good weapon and reinvigoration from elsewhere, especially when a good weapon + an item of reinvigoration is << the cost of a wraithsword, well, i'll take the two item solution every time.

Lifedrain: When has any thug or SC design required lifedrain to be useful, especially since its so trivial to counter? Seriously, cast Soul Vortex already if you want it that badly...

The only thug I can think of that cares about a weapon like this is the Skratti, who will take the Blood Thorn every time because blood slaves are cheap and expendable (and it takes fewer slaves than the wraithsword does d, and is 1h to boot!)

At 10d the wraithsword would still be overpriced for what it does.

You've still failed to show a reason anyone would actually build one of the things, especially when the alternatives are all better by any metric, including the exact features that might tempt one to make a wraith sword to begin with. When you stack on this that what a wraith sword does is not especially useful for thugs or SCs as they are typically geared, and the wraith sword saddles its relatively unimportant good features with an otherwise bad weapon at a ridiculous gem price, its pretty clear no one would ever bother to use it.

Boots of the Messenger. 5n. A Fomorian druid forges it for 3n with a hammer (your pretender has E to make the hammer). Frost brand + boots of the messenger = 3w + 3n with hammers << 18d for a wraithsword, and vastly better at any function.

Alternately: FK casts Soul Vortex...

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

I have to repeat here,that u cant really compare partial life draining to reinvigoration/regeneration items.
Also,isnt the item spell full life drain?

-There are certain opponents where life drain doesnt work
-U have to hit first and then do damage for life drain to work

Coupled with the fact,that the stats of the Wraith Sword are pretty bad,this generally makes it far inferior as a choice for solving solely Reinvig/Regen issues vs the other items doing that.
Also,since its 2 handed you are missing out the 2nd hand slot for getting e.g. another misc slot(ring of regen).

Generally i want to make many 2h melee items and some 1h melee items a better choice by improving the stats and by slightly nerfing the fire/frost brand.
Its not my intention to just do a "simple" nerf here, even though they surely do offer too much for the price.

As it stands i would say,that nerfing the fire brand to say 6AP base damage and nerfing the frost brand to say 12 base damage, without improving the others,would still make them the top choice as an all around weapon, by far,and as such wouldnt change much except for some raider nations like you said,Eriu for example.
Thats a bad idea and therefore just 1 piece of the puzzle.
If you leave them as they are and just improve the other weapons u would have to make several 2h weapons actually very overpowered so that they are able to replace the brands in many situations.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Mardagg:
I don't think nerfing frost/fire brands is a positive change for the reasons listed by others. They already have to deal with Protection 30+ SCs, and aren't especially efficient at it as is. Most weapons do have uses, however niche, there's just a few that are never going to see play as is. I picked out the only three I can't see any reason to ever use, and possibly the halberd of might could use a boost (but i'm not sure to what).

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

yeah,i am having a hard time to find ideas for the halberd of might,too.

The fire brand is pretty good vs high protection SC`s.
The frost brand is worse,but its cheaper.
They are both 1handed weapons and shields are pretty good in SC vs SC battles,too.

I am arguing,that equipping every SC and every thug with a fire brand is a no brainer,bc u can do quite some damage vs every type of opponent,be it chaff,thug or SC.
And you then even get to equip a shield in addition.
Again,the problem is that just improving some 2handed weapons,like the Wraith Sword,wouldnt change much unless u make them overpowered.The Brands have to be nerfed on the base damage if you want to make 2h weapons more balanced imo.

Re: Magic Items under CBM
 

Also,nerfing the base damage of the brands would open options for some other 1h weapons as well,i.e. all weapons with good to very good base damage but without AoE damage could fill a niche spot in the future.

And just to clarify:

Nerfing the base damage will not affect the AoE damage.Those are not influenced by each other.
The Brands will still be very powerful therefore.